the-usurper-archive/discord-evidence/full_exports/PlainText/DallasMakerspace - General - dms-politics [690404549776637972].txt

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Guild: DallasMakerspace
Channel: General / dms-politics
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[3/19/2020 11:06 PM] yashsedai
#1


[3/19/2020 11:16 PM] michaelb5250
*mutes channel*

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[3/19/2020 11:17 PM] nullinterface
🤣


[3/19/2020 11:29 PM] mizgeek
-pith helmet required-


[3/19/2020 11:43 PM] nullinterface
pith helmet ... I'm reminded of something a co-worker often says : 
*There's something about a top-break revolver that says **I'm here to oppress you.***


[3/19/2020 11:43 PM] yashsedai
LOLOL


[3/19/2020 11:44 PM] ferricyanide7475
🍿  okay so when does it start? I am ready


[3/19/2020 11:44 PM] nullinterface
start with something appropriately DMS scandalous


[3/19/2020 11:45 PM] canibalcrab
something like "so whos in the crosshairs next"


[3/19/2020 11:45 PM] nullinterface
perhaps summon the Draco


[3/19/2020 11:47 PM] yashsedai
lolol


[3/19/2020 11:47 PM] nullinterface
or volunteer someone to run the 10x10


[3/19/2020 11:47 PM] yashsedai
so i propose that googolaire and bishop be in the crosshairs next


[3/19/2020 11:48 PM] yashsedai
QUICK! @Draco come to their defense


[3/19/2020 11:48 PM] yashsedai
community!


[3/19/2020 11:48 PM] yashsedai
clay poking metal!


[3/19/2020 11:48 PM] yashsedai
I CAN COUNT TO FIRETRUCK!


[3/19/2020 11:49 PM] sewingstuff2561
I’m so glad Cairenn doesn’t have discord.


[3/19/2020 11:49 PM] yashsedai
oh lawdy


[3/19/2020 11:50 PM] yashsedai
that would be terribad


[3/19/2020 11:50 PM] ferricyanide7475
yeah.... how about we don't mention that to her


[3/19/2020 11:50 PM] yashsedai
my clay brings all the metal poking things to the yard


[3/19/2020 11:50 PM] sewingstuff2561
There is the ignore feature here though.


[3/19/2020 11:50 PM] yashsedai
damn right its pokier than y'alls


[3/19/2020 11:50 PM] ferricyanide7475
or how about who would be the most comical board to put together


[3/19/2020 11:50 PM] yashsedai
lol


[3/19/2020 11:51 PM] ferricyanide7475
perhaps a most likely to annoy the membership category and a most likely to annoy each other category?/


[3/19/2020 11:52 PM] yashsedai
haha that could go so many ways


[3/19/2020 11:57 PM] ferricyanide7475
hmmm.... brandon, allen, kevin, cairenn, russell?


[3/19/2020 11:58 PM] sewingstuff2561
Brandon and Allen would hurt their feelings until they quit.


[3/19/2020 11:58 PM] sewingstuff2561
Especially Allen.  Omg.


[3/19/2020 11:58 PM] ferricyanide7475
thats my annoy each other pick i think


[3/19/2020 11:58 PM] canibalcrab
brandon would get shit done


[3/19/2020 11:59 PM] sewingstuff2561
Yeah DMS would be cleaner than it’s ever been.


[3/19/2020 11:59 PM] sewingstuff2561
And it would actually consistently have tools.


[3/19/2020 11:59 PM] ferricyanide7475
just whoever crossed my mind... i imagine there is a better pick


[3/19/2020 11:59 PM] ferricyanide7475
better annoy each other pick


[3/20/2020 12:01 AM] sewingstuff2561
That was pretty magical.


[3/20/2020 12:06 AM] draco_the_drake
I think if Brandon got on the board, that DMS would be clean very clean and there might need to be a new dumpster or two installed lol


[3/20/2020 12:13 AM] sewingstuff2561
Talk drama is quiet most of the evening.  It’s usually during the day that it pops off.


[3/20/2020 12:13 AM] draco_the_drake
Well then I guess it is lucky I don't see it


[3/20/2020 12:13 AM] draco_the_drake
else I might be tempted


[3/20/2020 12:13 AM] draco_the_drake
lol


[3/20/2020 12:15 AM] sewingstuff2561
It’s mostly just hissy fits over DMS closing lately.


[3/20/2020 12:15 AM] draco_the_drake
I think it was the right thing to do under the circumstances


[3/20/2020 12:16 AM] canibalcrab
just some entitled guy who had business plans the revolved around the dms staying open


[3/20/2020 12:16 AM] sewingstuff2561
My favorite part is that he wanted to use the internet there.


[3/20/2020 12:16 AM] nullinterface
https://www.politico.com/states/california/story/2020/03/19/newsom-orders-all-40m-californians-to-stay-home-in-nations-strictest-state-lockdown-1268248

not DMS politics, but craziness nonetheless

{Embed}
https://www.politico.com/states/california/story/2020/03/19/newsom-orders-all-40m-californians-to-stay-home-in-nations-strictest-state-lockdown-1268248
Newsom orders all 40M Californians to stay home in nation's stricte...
“There’s a social contract here,” Newsom said. “People, I think, recognize the need to do more and meet his moment.”
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/vjPfVpU6VrFqZ2E2gIiqN0XmZ3ifofC5ZawMOAVjYBU/https/static.politico.com/de/47/c1668f904ed78a84fe42c92564b8/0319newsom.jpg


[3/20/2020 12:17 AM] sewingstuff2561
DMS is like a homeless shelter without any of the rules.

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[3/20/2020 9:52 AM] judykriehn3727
Back to the crazy board member suggestions:
I nominate the CeramiCAp dude.


[3/20/2020 9:52 AM] judykriehn3727
Max Kirkland would be interesting as well.


[3/20/2020 11:51 AM] mell.jpg
While we're at it Russellcrow for sure right?

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[3/20/2020 12:04 PM] aceat64
For the upcoming board meeting we could make a room in discord that only lets users with certain roles talk

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[3/20/2020 12:05 PM] yashsedai
HAHA


[3/20/2020 12:05 PM] aceat64
I mean we have a text one like that now, but can do the same in voice


[3/20/2020 12:07 PM] yashsedai
whelp, im muted!


[3/20/2020 12:25 PM] hon1nbo
Google Meet; can mute participants who are disruptive / until questions etc are ready


[3/20/2020 12:25 PM] hon1nbo
raised hands via the chat etc


[3/20/2020 12:26 PM] canibalcrab
When the board meetings are streamed the audience is already muted


[3/20/2020 12:26 PM] canibalcrab
I watch chat for questions


[3/20/2020 12:29 PM] agr0090
could have record attendance if people have nothing else to do


[3/20/2020 2:19 PM] draco_the_drake
What Politics .. DMS ain't go no Politics .. everyone always agrees on everything!


[3/20/2020 2:19 PM] draco_the_drake
especially when locked in DMS


[3/20/2020 2:59 PM] kenpurcell
Help, I'm stuck in the janitors closet! 😉

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[3/20/2020 3:04 PM] yashsedai
lol


[3/20/2020 3:05 PM] canibalcrab
https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/3-22-20-pay-to-play-model-for-tool-training/70145/17


[3/20/2020 3:05 PM] canibalcrab
here come the people who think they should be able to nickel and dime new members


[3/20/2020 3:06 PM] yashsedai
lol


[3/20/2020 3:07 PM] yashsedai
but pearce, john gorman wants to charge for lasers


[3/20/2020 3:07 PM] sewingstuff2561
Kevin has a lot more time on his hands now without his stripper poles to work on


[3/20/2020 3:07 PM] yashsedai
john should be able to make his money


[3/20/2020 3:07 PM] yashsedai
you know


[3/20/2020 3:07 PM] sewingstuff2561
Look Freddy that Miller High Life won’t pay for itself


[3/20/2020 3:07 PM] yashsedai
like max paying his mortgage via 3d printers


[3/20/2020 3:08 PM] agr0090
seems like it would be a better deal for DMS in long run to offer 1 to $5,000 for someone to create and deploy online required training for tools


[3/20/2020 3:08 PM] yashsedai
people should be able to profit from the non profit, you know because its theirs


[3/20/2020 3:08 PM] agr0090
removes the supply issue of no one offering training for $25


[3/20/2020 3:08 PM] yashsedai
I'm in agreement brandon, but I think it can be had for free


[3/20/2020 3:09 PM] canibalcrab
seems like right now is a great time for people to work on online  classes


[3/20/2020 3:09 PM] canibalcrab
from kevins post

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[3/20/2020 3:10 PM] canibalcrab
the "drive away more teachers" is an issue created by the same group that thinks they will get banned for speaking up


[3/20/2020 3:11 PM] kentamanos
I did the Multicam classes and checkout for a LONG time for free, but I also got burned the f*** out and therefore don't blame Chris too much for charging 🙂


[3/20/2020 3:12 PM] canibalcrab
thats why i suggested scheduling them and getting honorarium for it


[3/20/2020 3:12 PM] canibalcrab
or we need a new way to do it. since clearly it burns people out


[3/20/2020 3:15 PM] kentamanos
and to be clear, I got burned out longer ago than "last year" 🙂


[3/20/2020 3:15 PM] canibalcrab
right


[3/20/2020 3:15 PM] canibalcrab
last year was blue flu


[3/20/2020 3:16 PM] canibalcrab
because REEEE I CANT PAY MY RENT WITH THIS


[3/20/2020 3:34 PM] yashsedai


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[3/20/2020 3:37 PM] mell.jpg
But I wonder @Kentamanos would getting honorarium for it have helped you not get burnt out?


[3/20/2020 3:38 PM] kentamanos
I don't think so, was just a lot of work (especially the checkout part).


[3/20/2020 3:40 PM] skyspook
Man, I kinda wanted to see what would happen if I started teaching those classes for free and crashing the market...

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[3/20/2020 3:41 PM] canibalcrab
Go for it


[3/20/2020 3:41 PM] michaelb5250
Kevin's argument centers on the idea that 'if x doesn't teach it, no one will' which is just flat wrong


[3/20/2020 3:42 PM] michaelb5250
If Chris is burnt out, new people can step in


[3/20/2020 3:42 PM] agr0090
Other part of formula is if members cant get training they quit quickly


[3/20/2020 3:42 PM] canibalcrab
I think a lot of people saw that some members were making rent by teaching and didn't want to "take food off their plate" by teaching and reducing their take


[3/20/2020 3:43 PM] skyspook
Yep, I'll admit I was hesistant to mess around with folks


[3/20/2020 3:43 PM] michaelb5250
I've had a half dozen people ask me about teaching laser, 3 of them specifically to undercut Gorman

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[3/20/2020 3:43 PM] skyspook
That's pretty awesome


[3/20/2020 3:44 PM] michaelb5250
I can't wait to open back up and get them trained


[3/20/2020 3:44 PM] michaelb5250
(trained in teaching the class)


[3/20/2020 3:46 PM] skyspook
I'm looking forward to it


[3/20/2020 3:46 PM] sewingstuff2561
Nice.  Lol.  I have seriously considered putting effort into learning certain machines just to teach for free.


[3/20/2020 3:50 PM] yashsedai
@michaelb thats hilarious


[3/20/2020 3:51 PM] michaelb5250
I mean, Nick can make a living with a CNC, so he can get away with the whole 'pay me to teach you' line


[3/20/2020 3:52 PM] michaelb5250
But ain't nobody around who thinks Gorman has $60/hour worth of laser experience. ($20/student, 5 students/class, 1.5 hours/class)


[3/20/2020 3:53 PM] sewingstuff2561
Except Gorman and maybe Holly.


[3/20/2020 4:25 PM] nullinterface
There's a large swath if DMS for whom the presence or anmbsence of honorarium plays no major factor in their motivation to not teach


[3/20/2020 4:34 PM] andrew5152
I've said it before,  and I'll say it again:  despite what some of us think, most of us are “nice people” who do not want to step on toes, or, less nicely considered, “horn in someone else’s territory”.


[3/20/2020 4:34 PM] andrew5152
https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/new-pay-to-play-model/68319/98?u=jast


[3/20/2020 4:35 PM] andrew5152
teachers tend to fill perceived demand/shortfalls.


[3/20/2020 4:37 PM] draco_the_drake
Good teachers should teach .. I promote good teachers 🙂


[3/20/2020 5:03 PM] sewingstuff2561
Omg trying to refrain from telling off CeramicCAP.


[3/20/2020 5:03 PM] sewingstuff2561
Thanks Freddy.  I can always count on you.  Lol


[3/20/2020 5:08 PM] rayearth42
lol


[3/20/2020 5:54 PM] lavarocks.
My argument was always that chairs teaching and regulars were scaring away new blood. I had several people tell me they offered to teach woodshop and were ignored. This is counter to what Mark was saying that they couldn't get teachers. Same with 3d fab. I was told by multiple people they felt like they weren't allowed to teach it.  We want diversity in education, not monopolies.

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[3/20/2020 5:56 PM] andrew5152
chairs and regulars really SHOULD be working to recruit, train, and assist MOAR teachers...


[3/20/2020 5:56 PM] andrew5152
(says the guy who does jack shit on all those)


[3/20/2020 5:58 PM] canibalcrab
i could probably get cleared by my boss to teach classes for the polyprinters, i have no reason to think he would say otherwise. i just hate teaching to people who wont listen and are just there to get the certification


[3/20/2020 5:58 PM] draco_the_drake
Diversity as long as they are a good teachers .. I think perhaps there needs to be a training period and a way to rate teachers .. then let them teach ,,, especially for safety courses


[3/20/2020 6:00 PM] skyspook
Paul was very open to having me help teach in woodshop, which made me happy.


[3/20/2020 6:01 PM] canibalcrab
paul is awesome i just wish this pandemic hadnt ruined his time to shine

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[3/20/2020 6:12 PM] skyspook
I know. It's inconvenient in multiple ways


[3/20/2020 6:12 PM] skyspook
Scary in others.


[3/20/2020 6:15 PM] draco_the_drake
In response to a reporter asking Trump what he would say to people that are scared, “I say that you’re a terrible reporter, that’s what I say.”


[3/20/2020 6:16 PM] canibalcrab
dude that whole meeting was a clusterfuck


[3/20/2020 6:16 PM] canibalcrab
and you can see how uncomfortable the doctor is that they are standing so close together

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[3/20/2020 6:17 PM] draco_the_drake
yup I thought about that .... I stopped watching the entire briefings .. I tend to go with local reporting rather than all that


[3/20/2020 6:18 PM] draco_the_drake
Trump had a good chance to try and at least find a way to comfort people but I don't think he has empaty


[3/20/2020 6:18 PM] yashsedai
lol


[3/20/2020 6:18 PM] yashsedai
how would you know this?


[3/20/2020 6:19 PM] yashsedai
also, there are MANY MANY things he has done that show he has empathy....

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[3/20/2020 6:19 PM] yashsedai
just not for stupid reporters


[3/20/2020 6:19 PM] draco_the_drake
Oh no doubt he has done some good things


[3/20/2020 6:20 PM] draco_the_drake
I'm not a Trump basher


[3/20/2020 6:20 PM] yashsedai
lol and yet ^^^


[3/20/2020 6:20 PM] draco_the_drake
he just lost an opportunity by jumping on a reporter


[3/20/2020 6:56 PM] nullinterface
complaining about the media won't get you far as a politician


[3/20/2020 7:03 PM] nullinterface
however, it would be nice if covid-19 were more of a unifying thing than yet another thing to fight over


[3/20/2020 7:06 PM] nullinterface
regardless of its low lethality, this is going to do a number on the economy over a long period of time


[3/20/2020 7:08 PM] draco_the_drake
@ESmith  ... I agree ... I hope so too


[3/20/2020 7:15 PM] nullinterface
the stimulus package I'm hearing about is ... weird.  there's an uncanny valley.  low and high ends see reduced benefit and no benefit respectively.  on the high end, upper-end earners likely don't need the stimulus, but reducing the benefit to the lower end is baffling since they need it and will almost certainly spend it all relatively quickly, and *velocity of money* being what it is, is likely to greatly benefit the economy.


[3/20/2020 7:17 PM] nullinterface
however I gather much of this is on the Senate, which tinkered with the Bush administration's flat payments


[3/20/2020 7:17 PM] canibalcrab
so i read it as a tax rebate more that stimulus


[3/20/2020 7:17 PM] nullinterface
there's a means test of sorts - I gather it's based on 2018 tax returns


[3/20/2020 7:18 PM] canibalcrab
and they appear to be trying to say that people who havent been paying taxes wouldnt be getting anything back


[3/20/2020 7:18 PM] canibalcrab
which is why people on disability would only get $600 instead of $1200


[3/20/2020 7:18 PM] nullinterface
yeah, total cutoff if you're at <$2500 or somesuch


[3/20/2020 7:19 PM] canibalcrab
the cut off is the same number as when you dont have to pay taxes or some such


[3/20/2020 7:19 PM] canibalcrab
low end cut off*


[3/20/2020 8:25 PM] michaelb5250
Regarding teachers, it seems like the issue is that no one knows how to start teaching. Like I said before plenty of offers to teach laser and the leader is always 'hey how do I get approved to teach the lasers'


[3/20/2020 8:26 PM] talkers
I've taught more than a dozen to teach lasers


[3/20/2020 8:26 PM] michaelb5250
I think we'd see more teachers if we just made it more obvious how to teach. Not that everyone will follow through but some will


[3/20/2020 8:26 PM] talkers
And more for everything else.


[3/20/2020 8:26 PM] talkers
I've shared my curriculum for those classes too


[3/20/2020 8:27 PM] talkers
I even taught classes on how to teach at the MakerSpace


[3/20/2020 8:28 PM] talkers
Someone posted last week about teaching laser. I offered to mentor them. We even chatted offline about it.


[3/20/2020 8:28 PM] talkers
It's key to keep encouraging people to teach


[3/20/2020 8:29 PM] michaelb5250
It's good to get new people to teach, so when people get burnt out there are new teachers to replace them.


[3/20/2020 8:30 PM] michaelb5250
Otherwise we get teachers who have been around for years and demand payment for the privilege of gracing us with their classes


[3/20/2020 8:31 PM] talkers
Plus different people have different perspectives and experiences on how to do things. I would enroll or audit a lot of people on subjects I taught to learn from them


[3/20/2020 8:31 PM] talkers
Lol, "gracing us".


[3/20/2020 8:33 PM] michaelb5250
Right? I don't understand it. I would rather people stop teaching when they're burnt out. Take a break, maybe get back to making. But showing up to meetings and continuously arguing that they be paid because they've 'taught for so many years' is crazy.


[3/20/2020 8:34 PM] michaelb5250
It's almost as if those people feel entitled to teach, and that the space has to change to accommodate what they want, which is just wrong.

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[3/20/2020 9:02 PM] yashsedai
@michaelb I think @john a gorman doesn't wanna comment on this. It might have hit too close to home....

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[3/20/2020 9:07 PM] draco_the_drake
tenure?


[3/20/2020 9:15 PM] canibalcrab
thats the one


[3/20/2020 9:25 PM] sewingstuff2561
Man someone needs to get ceramiccap posting in here.


[3/20/2020 9:25 PM] yashsedai
lol no


[3/20/2020 9:25 PM] yashsedai
better watch out


[3/20/2020 9:25 PM] yashsedai
he will pm you and say weird stuff


[3/20/2020 9:27 PM] sewingstuff2561
Dude it’s kind of entertaining.


[3/20/2020 9:27 PM] talkers
@yashsedai the assumptions are not correct. Debate won't fix that. Best source is talking to the members that take my classes. Usually, it's not just one. Often 3+, sometimes 10+. I build strong relationships with them.


[3/20/2020 9:27 PM] sewingstuff2561
Plus you can always put him on ignore.


[3/20/2020 9:28 PM] yashsedai
and yet you feel entitled to fleece the new comers of their $20.00


[3/20/2020 9:29 PM] talkers
Entitled?


[3/20/2020 9:29 PM] yashsedai
yes entitled


[3/20/2020 9:29 PM] sewingstuff2561
Um it’s 19.99


[3/20/2020 9:29 PM] yashsedai
also you felt entitled to teach people a machine that had no curriculum all in the name of profit?


[3/20/2020 9:30 PM] yashsedai
you are right @SewingStuff it was $19.99


[3/20/2020 9:31 PM] draco_the_drake
Then what I suggest is building up teachers that are willing to take honorarium or do it for free.   There is no limit on the number of instructors as far as I'm aware.   If you get enough people teaching for free, people will not pay $19.99 .. this is better than debating or creating rules


[3/20/2020 9:31 PM] draco_the_drake
IMO


[3/20/2020 9:32 PM] nullinterface
Can't say I learned anything when I took your laser class


[3/20/2020 9:32 PM] canibalcrab
^ that message gets sent to me by many people


[3/20/2020 9:32 PM] sewingstuff2561
But I’ve heard that paid teachers tend to chase off the ones who are willing to teach for free because they’re kind of territorial.


[3/20/2020 9:33 PM] draco_the_drake
Then work on that problem @SewingStuff ... different issue


[3/20/2020 9:33 PM] nullinterface
But I got added to the AD groups so that was that


[3/20/2020 9:34 PM] canibalcrab
draco, the new agenda item is to work on that


[3/20/2020 9:34 PM] sewingstuff2561
Also, just searching, I found out you can buy a whole CASE of Miller High Life for 17.48 around here, but they are sadly out of stock.  So for a five person class, you could buy 90 bottles almost!

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[3/20/2020 9:34 PM] michaelb5250
@SewingStuff they can be. Some of the paid laser teachers tell members that they can only be approved to teach by following their class and then having that teacher watch the members first class as well.


[3/20/2020 9:35 PM] michaelb5250
Basically, they're implying that the only way to teach is to cooperate with them and do it their way. Which isn't true.


[3/20/2020 9:36 PM] draco_the_drake
Then notify people of that .. show them the committee approved course outline .. have a teach the teacher class


[3/20/2020 9:39 PM] michaelb5250
That's exactly what happened, so I don't see your point? Just because a situation has been handled doesn't mean I can't complain about it.


[3/20/2020 9:39 PM] draco_the_drake
😉


[3/20/2020 9:39 PM] draco_the_drake
Good then it's settled 🙂


[3/20/2020 10:17 PM] agvet
Is that ceramiccap guy even real?  Has anyone actually met him?


[3/20/2020 10:18 PM] canibalcrab
yeah hes as insane in person


[3/20/2020 10:18 PM] canibalcrab
but a little nicer


[3/20/2020 10:21 PM] sewingstuff2561
Agvet are you a veteran or veterinarian or both?


[3/20/2020 10:33 PM] andrew5152
(not to answer for him, but he's revealed on Talk before that he's a veterinarian ; don't know about the veteran part)


[3/20/2020 10:35 PM] sewingstuff2561
Both would be cool!


[3/20/2020 10:36 PM] sewingstuff2561
I’m an avid overuser of veterinary services.  Like one of my dogs gets allergy drops and another has nightly blood pressure meds.   Lol


[3/20/2020 10:45 PM] ferricyanide7475
If that is who i think it is in person hes quite awkward and a bit timid... but i may have him confused with someone else


[3/20/2020 10:50 PM] hon1nbo
@Draco as one of those teachers, some committees like woodshop have historically been hostile to us


[3/20/2020 10:51 PM] hon1nbo
and to members that aren't part of their "special" woodworkers (yes, former chair called themselves a special group and the general members of DMS who need basic wood tool usage could fend for themselves)


[3/20/2020 10:52 PM] hon1nbo
the coursework there is structured to deter teachers that aren't full on woodworking down to finishing detail, preventing a basics for things like members that just need to rip some boards for the lasers, miter some wood for a frame in the workshop, and drill some holes


[3/20/2020 10:53 PM] agvet
@SewingStuff I'm a veterinarian, not a veteran.  In person I started to make sure to say 'veterinarian' in response to people asking what I do because I've been thanked for my service more than once on accident.


[3/20/2020 10:57 PM] michaelb5250
Large animal vet?


[3/20/2020 10:57 PM] michaelb5250
Or am I reading too much into the 'Ag' prefix


[3/21/2020 12:49 AM] judykriehn3727
Or he is an Aggie.


[3/21/2020 1:38 AM] agvet
Aggie indeed.  Small animal vet.  Was going to do large animal but the money's in small.


[3/21/2020 8:16 AM] kenpurcell
Always very impressed with veterinarians, so much more knowledge required vs. a doctor.


[3/21/2020 1:23 PM] nullinterface


{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/690988899362930729/Screenshot_20200321-123212.png?ex=67b96d4f&is=67b81bcf&hm=16c06ac46be5824052c61e9daabbda74cfcb4b3526ad7943378e5c4f37f08765&


[3/21/2020 2:04 PM] rayearth42
lol


[3/21/2020 2:06 PM] rayearth42
https://babylonbee.com/news/new-version-of-operation-just-has-players-use-essential-oils-instead-of-performing-a-medical-procedure

{Embed}
https://babylonbee.com/news/new-version-of-operation-just-has-players-use-essential-oils-instead-of-performing-a-medical-procedure
New Version Of 'Operation' Just Has Players Use Essential Oils Inst...
PAWTUCKET, RI—In a press release Friday, Hasbro announced a new version of classic board game Operation in which players use essential oils to treat serious medical conditions rather than taking the patient, Cavity Sam, into a hospital for expensive, invasive surgery.Much like...
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/uiybPeIlhrp_swtzWwvTtKAToo9HhSEqeGd8vweXkNE/https/babylonbee.com/img/articles/article-4384-1.jpg


[3/21/2020 4:49 PM] themitch22
They should have a modern laparoscopic version of Operation where you use a wire through a straw to pick up pieces.


[3/21/2020 5:00 PM] judykriehn3727
Or a robotic version where you are in the next room.


[3/21/2020 5:26 PM] nullinterface
... with multiple-choice lag on the response time


[3/21/2020 5:42 PM] michaelb5250
A few articles online talk about inconsistent lag in telesurgery but none of their experiments were detectable by surgeons.


[3/21/2020 5:43 PM] michaelb5250
The FL to TX connection was 30-150ms and allegedly proved not a problem. I guess surgeons are just moving much slower than pro gamers.


[3/21/2020 6:32 PM] andrew5152
geezis. I HOPE my surgeon is moving slower than ME playing a game (and I'm no gamer!)


[3/21/2020 6:54 PM] talkers
@A. Spencer(jast) you sure you aren't a gamer? It's an excuse Jen used for you not being at the space more. PS 4 iirc

{Reactions}
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[3/21/2020 6:57 PM] andrew5152
I'm certain I am not a gamer. I have the reaction times and eye-hand coordination of a fence post. I'm less sure if Jen told anyone that's why I wasn't at the space more...


[3/21/2020 6:57 PM] canibalcrab
Busted


[3/21/2020 6:58 PM] talkers
Fence posts have a right to play too


[3/21/2020 6:58 PM] talkers
Wait, is that a thing?


[3/21/2020 6:58 PM] andrew5152
oh sure. We can play. But we can't call ourselves "gamers".


[3/21/2020 7:01 PM] draco_the_drake
I loved the Portal games and humorous games  ..  but then I found Minecraft ..  they even have fence posts in the game!


[3/21/2020 7:01 PM] draco_the_drake
and you can make stuff


[3/21/2020 7:02 PM] andrew5152
I lasted about an hour in Minecraft. Got pissed, walked away, deleted that crap and never been back.
Buy my 8 year old nieces used to love it...


[3/21/2020 7:02 PM] canibalcrab
someone here could spin up a minecraft server


[3/21/2020 7:02 PM] canibalcrab
skyfactory is a fun mod


[3/21/2020 7:03 PM] draco_the_drake
I've never been online with minecraft .. just single player


[3/21/2020 7:03 PM] canibalcrab
or galacticraft


[3/21/2020 7:03 PM] draco_the_drake
but sounds like an interesting idea


[3/21/2020 7:04 PM] draco_the_drake
I'm hoping to build my skills to the point that I can get on 2b2t


[3/21/2020 7:05 PM] draco_the_drake
and survive it


[3/21/2020 7:15 PM] michaelb5250
Skyfactory mod is fun but factorio is the endgame there.


[3/21/2020 9:50 PM] sewingstuff2561
Omg people on Talk lately about covid.


[3/21/2020 10:08 PM] draco_the_drake
hmmm Freddy, Allen, ceramicCAP, Cairenn and Paul on the board ... hmm... run away


[3/21/2020 10:08 PM] draco_the_drake
((explosion))


[3/21/2020 10:10 PM] sewingstuff2561
Which Paul?


[3/21/2020 10:11 PM] draco_the_drake
Printmaking


[3/21/2020 10:11 PM] draco_the_drake
sorry


[3/21/2020 10:11 PM] sewingstuff2561
Freddy and Allen and Paul would be fine.  They’re all pretty sensible.


[3/21/2020 10:11 PM] draco_the_drake
I don't know ... Allen has some ideas that are rather controversial


[3/21/2020 10:12 PM] draco_the_drake
like making his DMS email public


[3/21/2020 10:12 PM] draco_the_drake
while being a board member


[3/21/2020 10:12 PM] sewingstuff2561
Allen is at least committed to transparency and he’s not an idiot.  He and Freddy and Paul are all super competent.


[3/21/2020 10:13 PM] draco_the_drake
Paul is solid but has a temper .. Freddy is very smart but also is highly opinionated


[3/21/2020 10:14 PM] draco_the_drake
Allen .. no one quite knows exactly what he is up to


[3/21/2020 10:14 PM] draco_the_drake
He is famous for his non-answers


[3/21/2020 10:17 PM] draco_the_drake
Are you going to run @SewingStuff ?


[3/21/2020 10:18 PM] sewingstuff2561
I’d rather pluck out my own eyeballs.


[3/21/2020 10:18 PM] draco_the_drake
lol .. yeeeahh .. that seems to be a common theme unfortunately


[3/21/2020 10:19 PM] draco_the_drake
Well, at least we have an abundance of Patricks


[3/21/2020 10:19 PM] sewingstuff2561
I’m also generally working two jobs, both of which are highly stressful, so I have no tolerance for absurdity in my personal life.


[3/21/2020 10:19 PM] draco_the_drake
*nods* .. understandable


[3/21/2020 10:19 PM] draco_the_drake
it is almost a full time job


[3/21/2020 10:20 PM] draco_the_drake
at times it is


[3/21/2020 10:22 PM] draco_the_drake
I hope at some point we can move to staggard 2 year terms of 9


[3/21/2020 10:22 PM] draco_the_drake
This way there is no past board


[3/22/2020 10:29 AM] nullinterface
*Running for Board: **not it***


[3/22/2020 12:09 PM] michaelb5250
Running from the board however...


[3/22/2020 1:36 PM] nullinterface


{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/691354692130963476/unknown.png?ex=67b9707b&is=67b81efb&hm=cef2471c610a80b3c0e5bca00ce8d61c12dc4ae6d0a33ad4402413e49e4e632d&


[3/22/2020 1:37 PM] sewingstuff2561
But you’re missing out on such luminaries as ceramiccap and Russel Crowe!


[3/22/2020 1:40 PM] michaelb5250
I did that days ago, and I'm supposed to be one of the people stopping them from tearing each other apart...


[3/22/2020 1:40 PM] canibalcrab
its off topic


[3/22/2020 1:41 PM] michaelb5250
Lightly moderated, but still moderated.


[3/22/2020 1:44 PM] sewingstuff2561
Hey I wanted to start a new topic called crazypants rambling but I was told that may be incendiary


[3/22/2020 6:04 PM] aceat64
so now that there's a SIP order for Dallas county, will that stop the small handful of people complaining about DMS shutting down being "an overly broad reading of the law"? 🤣


[3/22/2020 6:05 PM] aceat64
DMS for sure doesn't fall under the "essential business" category


[3/22/2020 6:08 PM] agr0090
Link to order?


[3/22/2020 6:08 PM] aceat64
https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/coronavirus/dallas-county-to-give-update-on-covid-19-restrictions/2336502/

{Embed}
Claire Cardona
https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/coronavirus/dallas-county-to-give-update-on-covid-19-restrictions/2336502/
Watch Live: Shelter-in-Place Order Issued for Dallas County
Dallas County Judge Clay Jenkins on Sunday issued an order requiring residents to shelter in place. The order takes effect at 11:59 p.m. March 23 and continues until 11:59 p.m. April 3. The order states people may leave their residences only for essential activities — includin...
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/rJClpBSs3DIMk9X0dm7JIX2K8em6WuddDoHn-qIzkiU/%3Fresize%3D1200%252C675/https/media.nbcdfw.com/2019/09/TLM_10P_P_DALLAS-PRESSER.jpg


[3/22/2020 6:08 PM] aceat64
it's at the bottom


[3/22/2020 6:17 PM] sewingstuff2561
Those two guys have stfu anyway.


[3/22/2020 6:20 PM] hon1nbo
I've got my eye on them now, and one of them was already given a warning and temp silence


[3/22/2020 6:25 PM] sewingstuff2561
Dude there were two pitching a fit and two posting all kinds of crazy talk.  While I appreciate the distraction of having to hide their posts all damn day, I am glad they’ve cooled down.


[3/23/2020 8:03 PM] hardsuit
Errr, why's my name coming up for Board?  I ain't running.


[3/23/2020 8:04 PM] sewingstuff2561
Dude I wish you were.  You’re competent and you won’t run the space into the ground which is more than I can say for several people running.


[3/23/2020 8:05 PM] hardsuit
Yeah, but the temper thing is a valid observation


[3/23/2020 8:05 PM] hardsuit
Faaaar to many idiots to not have me snapping heads off left and right when I get pushed too far


[3/23/2020 8:06 PM] sewingstuff2561
Yeah but I’d rather have you freaking out than some of those fools calmly smirking.  There are a few good candidates, thank goodness but several who are just awful.


[3/23/2020 8:08 PM] hardsuit
Agreed


[3/23/2020 8:10 PM] sewingstuff2561
So maybe people are just engaging in wishful thinking.


[3/23/2020 8:13 PM] canibalcrab
#givepaulasword


[3/23/2020 8:14 PM] michaelb5250
Give Paul as word... Give Paula sword... Ohhhh give Paul a sword.


[3/23/2020 8:14 PM] kentamanos
and my axe?


[3/23/2020 8:14 PM] canibalcrab
Hashtags are dumb as shit


[3/23/2020 8:44 PM] nullinterface
https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/ask-the-candidates-2020-edition/70267


[3/23/2020 8:45 PM] canibalcrab
Inb4 "will you bring back booze"


[3/23/2020 8:46 PM] aceat64
"what is your stance on stealing?"


[3/23/2020 8:47 PM] canibalcrab
"how many hours do I have to volunteer before I can take $100"


[3/23/2020 8:48 PM] aceat64
I just want to know if it's cumulative, or if there's a decay function


[3/23/2020 8:48 PM] canibalcrab
It's not comp score


[3/23/2020 8:51 PM] draco_the_drake
How many board members do I need to sue to satisfy my ego and get revenge?


[3/23/2020 8:51 PM] sewingstuff2561
If I vote for you, can I also store my glowing stripper poles in committee areas or is that just for chairs?


[3/23/2020 8:52 PM] sewingstuff2561
I know I’m not a member or anything but a constant shitposter, but how can you cater to my demographic?

{Reactions}
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[3/23/2020 8:56 PM] nullinterface
aw man if there's a decay function then my balance is down to zero


[3/23/2020 8:56 PM] aceat64
that's my concern too, I wasted my opportunity to ~~steal~~borrow


[3/23/2020 8:57 PM] aceat64
all I did was volunteer time and give money to DMS


[3/23/2020 8:57 PM] aceat64
LIKE A SUCKER


[3/23/2020 8:58 PM] nullinterface
I dunno.  More board terms so you've got more credit to boil off.


[3/23/2020 8:58 PM] aceat64
I think I might still be the longest running board member


[3/23/2020 8:58 PM] aceat64
need someone to break that record please


[3/23/2020 8:59 PM] aceat64
oh wait, no


[3/23/2020 8:59 PM] aceat64
Robert beat me!


[3/23/2020 8:59 PM] aceat64
6 terms


[3/23/2020 8:59 PM] nullinterface
aw snap


[3/23/2020 8:59 PM] canibalcrab
There's got to be a bonus multiplier for consistent meetings with legible minutes


[3/23/2020 9:00 PM] nullinterface
I dunno man.  I hear there's a trove of those things out there just waiting to be uncovered.

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[3/23/2020 9:00 PM] sewingstuff2561
Minutes are for chumps when random sycophants have memories guys


[3/23/2020 9:00 PM] aceat64
just remember, before you ~~steal~~borrow money, you have to ensure that you gut the finance team entirely and then make up a bunch of bullshit as to why they were really bad people


[3/23/2020 9:00 PM] nullinterface
inscribed on parchment with the finest calligraphy in crystal detail


[3/23/2020 9:01 PM] aceat64
maybe try to frame a guy too while you're at it


[3/23/2020 9:01 PM] canibalcrab
I also beat you in votes and then we nominated you president. Negating the assanine idea that the person with the most votes should be president


[3/23/2020 9:01 PM] canibalcrab
I think people going with this idea got us in the most trouble


[3/23/2020 9:01 PM] aceat64
don't worry, dipshits will defend your action if you make them feel more important than they ever actually were


[3/23/2020 9:02 PM] aceat64
lol so many people told me that they liked me on the board and had nothing against me, they just figured I'd win anyway so they voted for others


[3/23/2020 9:02 PM] aceat64
wish more of them had done it


[3/23/2020 9:02 PM] aceat64
lol


[3/23/2020 9:03 PM] lavarocks.
I wish you would run again


[3/23/2020 9:03 PM] aceat64
way too busy with work and other projects, even with the current situation


[3/23/2020 9:06 PM] skyspook
You know what that means.


[3/23/2020 9:06 PM] skyspook
aww


[3/23/2020 11:20 PM] nullinterface
Someone get Max to somehow affirm that SOI that he *didn't post*


[3/23/2020 11:22 PM] canibalcrab
I'd tag him but he can't figure out how to keep the same discord account so it would be useless


[3/23/2020 11:22 PM] sewingstuff2561
Oh geez.


[3/23/2020 11:29 PM] rayearth42
https://youtu.be/Rj_-qaqQQc8

{Embed}
PortalFan150
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rj_-qaqQQc8
H2G2: So Long and Thanks for All the Fish - Jazz version
This is the "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"-song "So Long and Thanks for All the Fish". The jazz version, that is! :D Enjoy!
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/nFN0-JcNH1kgiEok08rUb23YMIRLPXf0sejgbTdgdsM/https/i.ytimg.com/vi/Rj_-qaqQQc8/hqdefault.jpg


[3/24/2020 12:09 AM] axeonos
just talked to him. yeah hes in it- he asked gorman to put it on there.


[3/24/2020 12:13 AM] sewingstuff2561
Maybe Gorman should run instead since he can actually use the wiki


[3/24/2020 12:18 AM] james_david_vance
I think we have some good options for board members. I was worried there wouldn't be


[3/24/2020 12:21 AM] sewingstuff2561
There are some awful options too.


[3/24/2020 12:21 AM] sewingstuff2561
I’d rather give blood in the warehouse from Hostel than vote for some of those people.


[3/24/2020 12:22 AM] james_david_vance
"we must never fall to the level of disrespecting each others views, beliefs, opinions, and decisions"

You shouldn't respect all decisions. It's how you express that lack of respect that I think Curtis Baker may have been referring to. Not all decisions, opinions, views, etc deserve my respect.


[3/24/2020 12:22 AM] michaelb5250
Exactly! I mean $my candidates$ are going to do great and I'm happy they're running. But $everyone else$ is just a shitshow waiting to happen.


[3/24/2020 12:22 AM] james_david_vance
That may be a matter of definitions though


[3/24/2020 12:26 AM] james_david_vance
I think Jim is a good option. I was pleasantly surprised by Freddy's SOI, specifically his commitment to improving his communication.


[3/24/2020 12:28 AM] canibalcrab
while brash he has the spaces best interest at heart


[3/24/2020 12:30 AM] james_david_vance
Personally I can tolerate it pretty well, but I know other people can't, and as a board member you have to deal with all kinds of people, where deal with includes listening, bringing out the best in them, being diplomatic. There is a balance between being diplomatic and having good ideas win, though.


[3/24/2020 12:33 AM] yashsedai
omg stop complementing me

{Reactions}
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[3/24/2020 12:36 AM] sewingstuff2561
You know the advantages some of the candidates have over others?  Some of them have never been banned from DMS, stolen from DMS, used DMS committee areas for personal storage, and are functional adults.


[3/24/2020 12:37 AM] yashsedai
i find the pool of candidates most interesting


[3/24/2020 12:38 AM] canibalcrab
most of them havent yelled at people for asking them to follow saftey protocol, threatened to ban people for asking them to act safely from a committee space they werent in


[3/24/2020 12:39 AM] kentamanos
this just in... https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Mark_Havens_Statement_of_Intent_2020

{Embed}
https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Mark_Havens_Statement_of_Intent_2020
Mark Havens Statement of Intent 2020


[3/24/2020 12:39 AM] sewingstuff2561
Yeah I know.


[3/24/2020 12:39 AM] kentamanos
I saw his personal page and kept waiting for it


[3/24/2020 12:39 AM] sewingstuff2561
Yup same here.


[3/24/2020 12:43 AM] james_david_vance
So this will be the first election for which I'm eligible to vote. Does everyone just have to pick their top candidate and submit one vote? Doe we each get 5 votes?


[3/24/2020 12:44 AM] kentamanos
up to 5 votes

{Reactions}
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[3/24/2020 12:44 AM] james_david_vance
What's Erik Smith's handle on here?


[3/24/2020 12:44 AM] kentamanos
(that is to say you can vote for only 4 if you want)


[3/24/2020 12:44 AM] kentamanos
(or 3..or...you get it...hehe)


[3/24/2020 12:44 AM] canibalcrab
@ESmith


[3/24/2020 12:46 AM] sewingstuff2561
I think he’s asleep.  He gets up at 5.


[3/24/2020 12:46 AM] james_david_vance
@ESmith Question #4 👏👏👏  yes. "DMS politics are contentious as of late - how do you intend to work with those with whom you disagree?"

I think dealing with the divide is going to be a great challenge or at least a great opportunity


[3/24/2020 12:46 AM] sewingstuff2561
I’m working late in the craft room so not sure.   Lol


[3/24/2020 12:48 AM] james_david_vance
I think leadership needs to focus as much as possible on makery things and less on politics. I think the current board, especially I think James, have done that very well, especially considering everyone's urge to tie everything back to us vs them


[3/24/2020 12:49 AM] merissa4308
..."as of late"?...  Try always 😆


[3/24/2020 12:50 AM] james_david_vance
I can imagine that hearing everyone talk about leadership drama may be offputting to new members


[3/24/2020 12:50 AM] canibalcrab
thats not the board members fault though


[3/24/2020 12:50 AM] canibalcrab
they cant go to the space without getting ambushed and bombarded with stupid questions


[3/24/2020 12:53 AM] james_david_vance
I think it's often a useful strategy when you're negotiating with someone (e.g. over a policy decision), to try to agree to come down to what you can tolerate as opposed to what you really want


[3/24/2020 12:59 AM] agr0090
Not the best layout on the dense side, but can clearly see a pattern

{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/691888836539580476/graph.png?ex=67b967b1&is=67b81631&hm=f74c93f950f0e22f686f00dcdcf0c35ce0c1b390be7d3002a218c1b00d3f221f&

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[3/24/2020 12:59 AM] agr0090
Thats a graph of those running and the people nominating them from SOI


[3/24/2020 1:00 AM] agr0090
Would be completely separate if McCutheon hadn't nominated Patrick and Havens


[3/24/2020 1:01 AM] canibalcrab
can always count on brandon to make a graph


[3/24/2020 1:01 AM] canibalcrab
nominations also are functionally useless


[3/24/2020 1:02 AM] agr0090
yeah just thought it was interesting how many were listed on some and wanted to see the connections


[3/24/2020 1:03 AM] agr0090
The text that I pasted into https://csacademy.com/app/graph_editor/

{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/691889871425372200/dms_2020_SOI_nomination_edges.txt?ex=67b968a8&is=67b81728&hm=43ca1c12ab66c18ade3bee30a867b1e6bb9510285791e19550f29a69e66f3ba0&

{Embed}
https://csacademy.com/app/graph_editor/
CS Academy
CSAcademy is a next generation educational platform. Discover computer science
    with interactive lessons and a seamless online code editor.
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/MQyI64R7pnT52SENqAZEhNr7dexI8zR5fabr-aN0oFI/https/csacademy.com/static/icon.png

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[3/24/2020 1:04 AM] sewingstuff2561
Gorman was....generous....with nominations this year.


[3/24/2020 1:05 AM] draco_the_drake
Why is Gorman in two places @AGr  .. are there two of them?


[3/24/2020 1:05 AM] draco_the_drake
He is in the center of the group on the left .. and on the top of the group on the right


[3/24/2020 1:06 AM] canibalcrab


{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/691890671115698196/unknown.png?ex=67b96966&is=67b817e6&hm=96044aa9b36232270ac93e6866f7935888f8c4b559a2506fa1c7ecb993417829&


[3/24/2020 1:07 AM] kentamanos
looks like one of his Gorman's has a space at the beginning


[3/24/2020 1:07 AM] agr0090
Might be others, was just pasting from wiki and not all names are normalized

{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/691890824996323348/graph_1.png?ex=67b9698b&is=67b8180b&hm=52efd8a75170bd2a5ab4f9c446f4f7137121790f4540674dddc8fbb663c409aa&

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[3/24/2020 1:07 AM] kentamanos
somewhere he's pissed you didn't put it in all lowercase


[3/24/2020 1:08 AM] draco_the_drake
LOL 🤣 @Kentamanos


[3/24/2020 1:09 AM] sewingstuff2561
Why does he do that anyway?   e e cummings fan or something?


[3/24/2020 1:10 AM] kentamanos
I have to assume I asked him at some point, but I don't remember if I did 🙂


[3/24/2020 1:12 AM] james_david_vance
Opinions on Curtis Baker?


[3/24/2020 1:14 AM] james_david_vance
I can't put a face to his name but he's been a member since 2015


[3/24/2020 1:15 AM] kentamanos
not familiar with him personally, but I don't visit DMS as often as I used to


[3/24/2020 1:16 AM] sewingstuff2561
I’ve heard positive things about him but I don’t know him.


[3/24/2020 1:18 AM] kentamanos
@DJ Vance his SOI has a Linkedin page with a picture if it helps


[3/24/2020 1:18 AM] james_david_vance
The picture isn't loading for me, I think it may be private to connections only


[3/24/2020 1:19 AM] kentamanos
Worked for me in incognito mode


[3/24/2020 1:20 AM] kentamanos
weird...maybe not


[3/24/2020 1:20 AM] axeonos
Who ever wins the 2020 board of elections... may whatever deity you believe in have mercy on you.

{Reactions}
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[3/24/2020 1:32 AM] sewingstuff2561
Hahaha burn him up Raffi


[3/24/2020 1:33 AM] james_david_vance
And I've spent a lot of time with him in Digital Media


[3/24/2020 1:35 AM] ferricyanide7475
> Might be others, was just pasting from wiki and not all names are normalized
@AGr This is really interesting. Almost 2 separate groups save for 2 cross overs (so far)


[3/24/2020 1:36 AM] sewingstuff2561
I just know him as the dude who keeps trying to store stripper poles all over DMS without permission and the guy who is so into himself he keeps posting pictures and commenting on his own hair.


[3/24/2020 1:40 AM] draco_the_drake
I did say there was another group ... 😉


[3/24/2020 1:41 AM] draco_the_drake
I hope we can bring them together


[3/24/2020 1:43 AM] james_david_vance
Kevin and I used to be cool with each other. I overlooked his overbearing nature because it seemed like he was being proactive with Digital Media and he seemed to be getting a lot done in general. There's a specific instance where he argued against me vigorously without understanding what I was saying. It was about epistemology, which is the study of the nature of knowledge in philosophy, and he was arguing that automata theory proved that we can know things. And I kept telling him he should attack my definition of knowledge, but he just kept giving vague descriptions about concepts in automata theory and ultimately copped out by saying it was too complicated to explain if i remember correctly. And then on a separate instance he condescended to me by saying that "don't know computer science". That was the last straw for me. I pretty much just left after that and haven't associated with him since.


[3/24/2020 1:57 AM] james_david_vance
Wow. I really like Max's SOI


[3/24/2020 2:00 AM] sewingstuff2561
I wasn’t impressed.


[3/24/2020 2:04 AM] sewingstuff2561
Max isn’t a functional adult.  I don’t trust him to run a coffee maker much less a Makerspace.


[3/24/2020 2:05 AM] themitch22
That nomination graph is interesting


[3/24/2020 2:07 AM] themitch22
someone has a personal issue with everyone running, good luck future board.


[3/24/2020 2:09 AM] sewingstuff2561
I hate everyone and I like several people running and will vote for them.


[3/24/2020 2:11 AM] james_david_vance
"Max isn’t a functional adult.  I don’t trust him to run a coffee maker much less a Makerspace." example?


[3/24/2020 2:12 AM] sewingstuff2561
He steals laser time, you can smell him before you see him, his excuse for not paying for laser time was that some roommate of his was the one who paid for it, he’s constantly starting the dumbest drama about things like sitting in his chair, and I can go on if you’d like.


[3/24/2020 2:13 AM] themitch22
I disassociated from 3D fab as much as possible


[3/24/2020 2:13 AM] james_david_vance
Interesting. I've had very little interaction with him. Mostly just saw him show up and speak at board meetings.


[3/24/2020 2:14 AM] sewingstuff2561
That’s a shame Mitch because you and Axey were both competent and I miss that.


[3/24/2020 2:15 AM] canibalcrab
hes been banned for not payign for laser time previously


[3/24/2020 2:15 AM] canibalcrab
and seems to have not learned his lesson


[3/24/2020 2:21 AM] themitch22
competent people know when to walk away


[3/24/2020 2:22 AM] james_david_vance
hmm


[3/24/2020 2:22 AM] doug.emes
Re the graph... I think folks misconstrue nominating and voting.  I don't see 2 camps at all, but I think there str probably 4-6 "factions" for lack of a better term


[3/24/2020 2:23 AM] themitch22
really not much 3D fab can do besides keep things running, $1200ish worth of broken form 2's and a next engine also is a turn off


[3/24/2020 2:23 AM] themitch22
$12000


[3/24/2020 2:23 AM] canibalcrab
actually


[3/24/2020 2:23 AM] canibalcrab
they could fucking train better


[3/24/2020 2:24 AM] themitch22
my outdated online class is still used?


[3/24/2020 2:24 AM] canibalcrab
instead of listing as many snippets of classes as possible to get honorarium


[3/24/2020 2:24 AM] james_david_vance
Oh that's right, I went to a 3d fab training with Max early last year


[3/24/2020 2:25 AM] james_david_vance
I felt like it could have been explained better, slowed down, has exercises for people to do


[3/24/2020 2:25 AM] doug.emes
Luke's 2 that audited were very good intros


[3/24/2020 2:29 AM] canibalcrab
im going to do a polyprinter training


[3/24/2020 2:29 AM] canibalcrab
(the ones i do for a living)


[3/24/2020 2:29 AM] canibalcrab
they take 90 mins and cover all filaments


[3/24/2020 2:29 AM] canibalcrab
not a separate class for pla and then ninjaflex


[3/24/2020 2:36 AM] sewingstuff2561
Man today was a disappointing Makerspace day.


[3/24/2020 6:40 AM] nullinterface
@DJ Vance can vote for up to as many seats as there are on the board, so zero to five

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[3/24/2020 8:52 AM] kenpurcell
From Joe Kings SOI: ``` I do not feel that it is the Boards position to micro-manage. The Board needs to be focused on the ‘big picture’ of growing the space, make good fiscal decisions, plan/adhere to a budget, and support expansion.``` Yep we tried to do that yet we have to spend way too much time with troublesome members like himself.


[3/24/2020 8:52 AM] kenpurcell
I'd rather vote for his boat.

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[3/24/2020 9:58 AM] judykriehn3727
Something for Kevin to do in winter:
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/what-is-a-hair-freezing-contest?utm_source=Atlas+Obscura+Daily+Newsletter&utm_campaign=7311da4762-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2020_03_24&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_f36db9c480-7311da4762-62961857&mc_cid=7311da4762&mc_eid=c5fbf6f992

{Embed}
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/what-is-a-hair-freezing-contest?utm_source=Atlas+Obscura+Daily+Newsletter&utm_campaign=7311da4762-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2020_03_24&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_f36db9c480-7311da4762-62961857&mc_cid=7311da4762&mc_eid=c5fbf6f992
Half-Naked Canadians Compete for Cash by Freezing Their Hair
Bring your best braids and beards, because the competition is going to be stiff.
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/LTnozDSnWKGxZ67ZVxp9kst8JkOCkWA6MhZ3lk3xFSk/https/assets.atlasobscura.com/media/W1siZiIsInVwbG9hZHMvYXNzZXRzLzgyZDVhNGFiNGJhMzZmMTI2ZV9sYXJnZV8xODVmM2Q2ZTZhYWQ2NzA0MmFjMGI3YTk2YTY5ZDVlNy5qcGVnIl0sWyJwIiwiY29udmVydCIsIiJdLFsicCIsImNvbnZlcnQiLCItcXVhbGl0eSA4MSAtYXV0by1vcmllbnQiXSxbInAiLCJ0aHVtYiIsIjYwMHg-Il1d/large_185f3d6e6aad67042ac0b7a96a69d5e7.jpeg


[3/24/2020 11:34 AM] draco_the_drake
Where is Allen's SoI?


[3/24/2020 11:58 AM] ferricyanide7475
Dont see one... from my understanding historical he has run rather frequently. I think to just make a point about certain things.


[3/24/2020 12:28 PM] judykriehn3727
Just read Max's TALK post about his candidacy. I had to chuckle at his statement about working on the family farm on weekends.


[3/24/2020 12:31 PM] judykriehn3727
Back when I was a (relatively) new member, I took two back-to-back classes, one on making silicone molds and one on resin casting. Both turned out to be the exact same thing. (???) At some point, I asked why he was wearing the suit jacket, while doing an activity considered rather messy. He replied that he had found that if he showed up at the farm wearing a sportcoat or suit jacket, he was less likely to be expected to do manual labor. Although his dad did press him into involuntary service anyway from time to time.


[3/24/2020 12:33 PM] sewingstuff2561
I can’t believe some of those people are serious.   They can barely run to the store much less run a Makerspace


[3/24/2020 12:40 PM] andrew5152
FWIW, you can wiki search "Statement of Intent Allen Wan" and get this back, (but it's more fun if we just say "Allen runs EVERY year", roll our eyes, walk away, and wait to see if it goads him into it again...

{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/692065201511465010/unknown.png?ex=67b96331&is=67b811b1&hm=3b5d631c9173bcb89cad72d236d6d638065500c44640e7b6f01f5f6aac85265d&


[3/24/2020 12:41 PM] sewingstuff2561
Hey it’s wishful thinking on my part.  Allen is a lot of things, but he’s super competent and I trust him not to steal from the space.

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[3/24/2020 12:54 PM] michaelb5250
He told me he 'was hoping not to run this year' so he'll probably end up waiting till the last minute.


[3/24/2020 1:09 PM] nullinterface
https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/2020-annual-meeting-elections-info/68873/11


[3/24/2020 1:20 PM] ferricyanide7475
> I'd rather vote for his boat.
@Lampy (Ken Purcell) could we put in a SOI for the boat?

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[3/24/2020 1:22 PM] sewingstuff2561
I might.  I was thinking of putting one in for my cat.


[3/24/2020 1:28 PM] nullinterface
for discussion : https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/emergency-item-2020-03-24-postpone-2020-election/70308


[3/24/2020 1:28 PM] canibalcrab
I guess the lack of parking is coming back with these guys


[3/24/2020 1:51 PM] nullinterface
Denton County shelter-in-place : 
https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/dentonrc.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/4/a5/4a5e5408-381e-5a2f-bd63-aea0fd57ebb9/5e7a4db61229f.pdf.pdf


[3/24/2020 1:57 PM] yashsedai
mmmm


[3/24/2020 2:35 PM] draco_the_drake
Collin county is less restrictive ...

```
The intent of this Order is to protect the physical health and well-being of Collin County citizens, to protect the financial health and well-being of Collin County citizens, and to slow the spread of COVID-19 to the maximum extent possible while safeguarding the Constitutional liberties of Collin County citizens by utilizing the least restrictive means possible and encouraging the highest level of personal responsibility.

```


[3/24/2020 2:36 PM] draco_the_drake
https://www.scribd.com/document/453054525/Collin-County-Executive-Order

{Embed}
https://www.scribd.com/document/453054525/Collin-County-Executive-Order
Collin County Executive Order  | Chronic Condition | Health Sciences
Collin County Judge Chris Hill issued an order to keep people at home in response to the spread of COVID-19.
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/9hb-NbrFl3Bb-AsBFp_gGs82EXUp6O-9yKLkAxrYo0Y/%3Fv%3D1/https/imgv2-1-f.scribdassets.com/img/document/453054525/original/43f8b2fd76/1585062287


[3/24/2020 2:38 PM] michaelb5250
Denton is a copy paste of Dallas I believe


[3/24/2020 4:59 PM] sewingstuff2561
I don’t think Max thought this through


[3/24/2020 4:59 PM] kentamanos
I don't think he thinks he ever did anything wrong


[3/24/2020 5:02 PM] canibalcrab
"It was just $20 that I didn't pay, not $70"


[3/24/2020 5:05 PM] michaelb5250
I wouldn't be surprised if he really believes what he did is good.


[3/24/2020 5:05 PM] sewingstuff2561
@michaelb how much laser time can I steal I mean use for each tour I bring in?

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[3/24/2020 5:06 PM] michaelb5250
However much I say you can use in advance!


[3/24/2020 5:06 PM] michaelb5250
Which is 0!


[3/24/2020 5:07 PM] michaelb5250
Honestly I'm not opposed to handing out trinkets or something during tours but the idea of 'showing off' by making things for people and trying to pass it off as PR....


[3/24/2020 5:08 PM] sewingstuff2561
But like I don’t want to ask you or anything.  I just want to use it and take it to cons and keep what I’ve made afterwards.


[3/24/2020 5:12 PM] michaelb5250
Well that just sounds like stealing with extra steps.

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[3/24/2020 5:13 PM] sewingstuff2561
Yeah but I’m totally going to show it off at a Con and get one whole person to take a tour.


[3/24/2020 5:13 PM] canibalcrab
And get free tickets to the con


[3/24/2020 5:14 PM] sewingstuff2561
Yeah I mean of course.   I deserve them and I totally got one whole person from a crowded con to take a tour so that excuses all of my prior actions.


[3/24/2020 5:15 PM] michaelb5250
That thread is like the Energizer bunny... It just keeps going and going

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[3/24/2020 5:16 PM] stephenie.
I'm curious about the comped benefits he gets during conventions.  Posted a question


[3/24/2020 5:19 PM] michaelb5250
Lol I was all bothered that engraving concepts sent me a box of brownies after we bought the laser clearly there were bigger issues to worry about.


[3/24/2020 5:32 PM] sewingstuff2561
Everyone dunking on Max has warmed my heart.  I’m even proud of Patrick for sticking to his guns.


[3/24/2020 5:33 PM] michaelb5250
I came here to say the same this thread is so entertaining


[3/24/2020 5:36 PM] sewingstuff2561
Omg there’s a clown emoji


[3/24/2020 5:49 PM] nullinterface
add enough steps and ~~it's not stealing~~ *you obfuscate the trail to the point that no one can track it*


[3/24/2020 6:07 PM] sewingstuff2561
I have so many regrets.  I have been severely underutilizing the clown emoji

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[3/24/2020 6:19 PM] aceat64
it's interesting to me that some candidates aren't responding to Marshall's very simple poll


[3/24/2020 6:20 PM] aceat64
I wonder how many are willing to accept the direct, personal liability of allowing someone back who defrauded the organization and put it at risk of losing it's non-profit status...


[3/24/2020 6:21 PM] aceat64
D&O won't cover that sort of thing


[3/24/2020 6:21 PM] sewingstuff2561
I’m concerned that we’re getting distracted from some of the other terrible candidates by dunking on Max.


[3/24/2020 6:24 PM] michaelb5250
But he makes it so freaking easy. He just admits to the stuff because he thinks he's doing a good thing.


[3/24/2020 6:25 PM] sewingstuff2561
It HAS been entertaining but I’m concerned that others are feeling neglected.


[3/24/2020 6:29 PM] patrickpleez1
@aceat64  I wasn’t aware of a poll up. And to @SewingStuff  Max messaged me to jump onto the thread but I exclaimed I was going to be honest about it.


[3/24/2020 6:31 PM] kenpurcell
it was definitely ~$70ish


[3/24/2020 6:31 PM] aceat64
@Patrickpleez1 I talked with you before, I think I know which way you'll vote on it 🤣


[3/24/2020 6:32 PM] aceat64
https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/ask-the-candidates-2020-edition/70267/5


[3/24/2020 6:32 PM] aceat64
this is what we're referring to btw


[3/24/2020 7:02 PM] aceat64
thanks for weighing in Patrick 🙂


[3/24/2020 7:03 PM] aceat64
I saw you've voted in the poll now


[3/24/2020 7:17 PM] patrickpleez1
@aceat64  this is the most I’ve used talk. Lol I just learned how to quote today. I like that feature.


[3/24/2020 7:21 PM] aceat64
there's an awesome tutorial thing now, try sending the user discobot a message with `@discobot start new user`


[3/24/2020 7:23 PM] patrickpleez1
On talk or here?


[3/24/2020 7:23 PM] aceat64
on talk


[3/24/2020 7:23 PM] aceat64
https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/u/discobot/summary

{Embed}
https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/u/discobot/summary
discobot
Hi, I’m not a real person. I’m a bot that can teach you about this site. To interact with me, send me a message or mention @discobot anywhere.
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/FeAOFZJgsB9Sv5PolMokvErzxW_NpD8oq3XMN2j5Cew/https/talk.dallasmakerspace.org/user_avatar/talk.dallasmakerspace.org/discobot/45/14733_2.png


[3/24/2020 8:35 PM] doug.emes
on discord its mee6


[3/24/2020 8:35 PM] doug.emes
or something like that


[3/24/2020 8:42 PM] aceat64
that's just a popular discord bot


[3/24/2020 8:42 PM] aceat64
discobot is actually built-in to Discourse/Talk


[3/24/2020 8:43 PM] aceat64
new accounts automatically get a PM from it with info on how to start the tutorial


[3/24/2020 11:18 PM] hardsuit
Weee.
NOT


[3/24/2020 11:19 PM] hardsuit
Draco just asked for me to nominate a couple BoD candidates


[3/24/2020 11:22 PM] yashsedai
oh?


[3/24/2020 11:22 PM] yashsedai
thats pretty interesting since he's not a member


[3/24/2020 11:22 PM] yashsedai
did he give any reason as to why?


[3/24/2020 11:25 PM] hardsuit
"The non-profit supports my community and the larger maker community of which I'm a part .. it is an important part in it .. I have worked closely with DMS for years now and volunteered countless hours ... the effects extend well beyond DMS .. and it is owned by the public in trust to the board"


[3/24/2020 11:26 PM] hardsuit
His response to my telling him I don't look upon a non member actively politicing with favor, but allowing that he has the legal right to do so.


[3/24/2020 11:35 PM] yashsedai
Thats...interesting.


[3/24/2020 11:35 PM] yashsedai
I won't argue there is nothing legal stopping him.


[3/24/2020 11:35 PM] yashsedai
It seems to reek of a less than reasonable obsession.


[3/25/2020 12:22 AM] judykriehn3727
Is there a reason we call them "nominations" instead of "endorsements"?


[3/25/2020 12:22 AM] judykriehn3727
In other words, if nobody signed on as a nominator, would the SOI be thrown out?


[3/25/2020 12:23 AM] aceat64
There's not really a good reason, and I guess yeah we'd throw them out


[3/25/2020 12:24 AM] aceat64
It's never come up


[3/25/2020 12:24 AM] aceat64
Even the worst candidates can find at least one person, just look at Freddie 🤣


[3/25/2020 12:24 AM] judykriehn3727
Hey. I resemble that remark.


[3/25/2020 12:25 AM] aceat64
lol


[3/25/2020 12:28 AM] doug.emes
Actually  yes


[3/25/2020 12:28 AM] yashsedai
LOL


[3/25/2020 12:28 AM] yashsedai
*cries*


[3/25/2020 12:28 AM] doug.emes
A nm nomination is not an endorsement.  I have endorse no candidates


[3/25/2020 6:51 AM] merissa4308
@doug.emes are you saying you haven't nominated anyone?  I see your name on one of the SOIs though?


[3/25/2020 8:47 AM] doug.emes
No I absolutely nominated mr king. I'm saying nomination and endorsement are 2 different concepts.

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[3/25/2020 8:49 AM] nullinterface
I see nominations like a seconding a motion at a Board meeting - moves the item to a vote where one may vote for, against, or abstain

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[3/25/2020 9:39 AM] merissa4308
Ok thanks @doug.emes for clarifying.  Still trying to wrap my head around the logic though... so you feel strongly enough about Joe King to nominate him, but not enough to endorse him?  What is your take on endorsing someone?


[3/25/2020 9:48 AM] doug.emes
Nomination is like this.  Yes, this person is a dues paying member on good standing...  I went through the 86 archive to try to find any suspensions in fact.  The difference to me is an endorsement means I'm voting for this person, de facto campaigning.  I feel the current bylaws based on a band of a dozen to 35 folks said a nomination is yeah, let this person run.  With ~1860 folks now, its convuleted.


[3/25/2020 9:53 AM] merissa4308
Ok, I still don't grasp the logic, but I appreciate your input 👍


[3/25/2020 10:03 AM] doug.emes
We have the membership in general acting as an artificial but needed gateway to limiting 100+ names


[3/25/2020 10:07 AM] merissa4308
I doubt we'd ever get 100+ people to volunteer for such a massive job, heck there are usually just about 10 each year.


[3/25/2020 10:08 AM] merissa4308
That's why I see the act of nominating someone as basically the same as endorsing ther person's character and leadership skills.  Just my $0.02


[3/25/2020 10:13 AM] andrew5152
I get it. I think @ESmith  said it well, likening it to a call for vote, for which I can still vote for or against. I call for vote on whether candidate X will be a board member (nomination). I vote not (no endorsement)  -OR- I vote for (endorsement). Maybe that just makes it murkier, but it works for me...


[3/25/2020 10:23 AM] nullinterface
@doug.emes 
> I feel the current bylaws based on a band of a dozen to 35 folks said a nomination is yeah, let this person run.  With ~1860 folks now, its convuleted.

Agreed.  The bylaws, to an extent the standing rules, and to a large degree the culture are very much rooted in the past of governance by consensus.

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[3/25/2020 10:23 AM] merissa4308
Or just don't nominate if you don't support/endorse someone?  In this analogy of it being like a "second" or "call to vote", a vote fails if it doesn't get a second


[3/25/2020 10:26 AM] nullinterface
@merissa I generally *feel* that nomination should indicate a degree of support and limit my nominations to candidates I can support, however it's a preliminary step


[3/25/2020 10:27 AM] merissa4308
Yeah, I guess the argument is pointless since there's no set criteria for what nomination means... and it's not even a requirement for the candidates

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[3/25/2020 10:27 AM] hon1nbo
@doug.emes  to clarify, you are listed as an "endorsement" on Joe King's SOI


[3/25/2020 10:28 AM] hon1nbo
when I sought my nominations, I specifically sought to only include those that would also be endorsements to help reduce confusion

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[3/25/2020 10:30 AM] merissa4308
Good catch!  With the talk of the difference between the two I didnt even notice the wording difference on each SOI 🤦


[3/25/2020 10:31 AM] merissa4308
For reference here's Joe's list...

{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/692395180225200168/SmartSelect_20200325-102855_Chrome.jpg?ex=67b94503&is=67b7f383&hm=95177cc30a871886ec5c84aba2c43298a5432def36eec3ec57d87de0a5cfba60&


[3/25/2020 10:46 AM] andrew5152
Yeah... just one more way a candidate differentiates from the others, by actually following directions and *using the prescribed verbiage*
not that being a director involves any technicalities or anything...

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[3/25/2020 11:04 AM] ferricyanide7475
Idk... I kind of consider it a bit loke an endorsement. Putting my name out there by their name. Plus if i wasn't a big fan I'd just prefer them to not get a second and it die, which i would assume means they cant run?


[3/25/2020 11:21 AM] judykriehn3727
Yeah, the difference is why I asked the initial question. If a nomination is simply to put someone on the ballot, seems like that number should be stated. But as a layman, if I see someone listed on someones SOI, I interpret it as "yeah, I think this person could be an effective board member." 

But if it's the other, seems like a member nominating another would be putting their name on EVERY SOI.

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[3/25/2020 11:25 AM] sewingstuff2561
The Gorman plan


[3/25/2020 12:11 PM] canibalcrab
Also the 86 list doesn't cover the various committee level bans


[3/25/2020 12:17 PM] hon1nbo
yeah; I actually hadn't even given that much thought given most metal bans have only been 30 days or thereabouts


[3/25/2020 12:17 PM] hon1nbo
but I do have one that's gone on for over a year now because the member refuses to speak to the committee about it


[3/25/2020 12:17 PM] hon1nbo
should probably get a list going at some point


[3/25/2020 12:27 PM] canibalcrab
And I think the 86 list only shows people who are *currently* banned


[3/25/2020 12:41 PM] hon1nbo
right; we have a known issue where repeat offenders aren't caught across committees due to a lack of knowledge between chairs and the board


[3/25/2020 12:45 PM] stephenie.
That exact issue happened with John Thummel.  At least 3 chairs (laser/me being one of them) didn't know he was violating rules in the others' areas. Kris was going around to each chair covering for him and asking for leniency.


[3/25/2020 12:46 PM] stephenie.
I only found out about the other two committee areas much later.


[3/25/2020 12:48 PM] stephenie.
We three chairs would have filed a joint petition to the board for permanent area bans had we known.


[3/25/2020 3:37 PM] aceat64
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pYP3hnhmlw&t=60

{Embed}
MANSON HANSON
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pYP3hnhmlw&start=60
Rick and Morty - Morty's presidential speech scene
Morty wins the citadel presidential race with an epic speech. 
All rights to the creators Adult Swim, Turner EST.
I'm not making money on it....
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/UO63KHZCmr7G6nV7ZHkyhefGLjVHtSxn0jc0IF3jmRg/https/i.ytimg.com/vi/-pYP3hnhmlw/maxresdefault.jpg


[3/25/2020 3:52 PM] doug.emes
> No I absolutely nominated mr king. I'm saying nomination and endorsement are 2 different concepts.
@doug.emes   And here is some humble pie.  I mis-recalled my private communication.  I was asked for an endorsement, and I said yes.  I apologize for the bad memory of doing stuff late at night.  It doesn't change my thoughts at all about nominations... and that's what I thought I had agreed to... but no, I was asked and I said yes, therefore I in fact endorsed.


[3/25/2020 3:53 PM] doug.emes
Also, when I was approached, there was less than 5, so I will claim some "Exigent" circumstance to increase our quantity


[3/25/2020 3:56 PM] doug.emes
@hon1nbo (k/j/t) exsilium  I support you 100% grilling another candidate on their SoI post, but not as a response to the secretary's post, willing to discuss here


[3/25/2020 3:57 PM] hon1nbo
@doug.emes I've already asked for help moving it to its own threadf


[3/25/2020 3:57 PM] doug.emes
andiu appreciate it


[3/25/2020 3:57 PM] hon1nbo
all of the items for that particularly contentious question SOI and otherwise


[3/25/2020 3:57 PM] doug.emes
thanks


[3/25/2020 3:58 PM] doug.emes
especially since it MAY become the defacto interview the candidates interaction


[3/25/2020 3:58 PM] hon1nbo
I'm not doing it myself because I try to avoid moderation actions on threads I'm very active in, so that's why I tagged the moderation team to get it rolling


[3/25/2020 3:58 PM] doug.emes
since were closed


[3/25/2020 3:58 PM] hon1nbo
yeah


[3/25/2020 3:58 PM] doug.emes
100% agree with you


[3/25/2020 3:58 PM] hon1nbo
I'd like to avoid that too


[3/25/2020 3:58 PM] doug.emes
and again, ive got no problem jim and jimmy roasting other candidates, just not in that post


[3/25/2020 3:58 PM] hon1nbo
was mostly replying based on the notifications anyway so it went where I was tagged


[3/25/2020 3:58 PM] doug.emes
yeah I get it


[3/25/2020 3:58 PM] hon1nbo
but you're right it's off rails


[3/25/2020 3:59 PM] doug.emes
and I know eric is probably slammed at Big Red


[3/25/2020 3:59 PM] doug.emes
im going to tag you in infra for a infra related but not DMS thing


[3/25/2020 4:00 PM] aceat64
Erik works for Rasputin?


[3/25/2020 4:00 PM] aceat64
(destiny 2 joke)


[3/25/2020 4:00 PM] aceat64
Pearce will roll his eyes, but he gets it


[3/25/2020 4:01 PM] doug.emes
I only have Destiny1 on XBOX1


[3/25/2020 4:01 PM] aceat64
Destiny 2 is free to play now


[3/25/2020 4:01 PM] doug.emes
maybe 6 hrs of gameplay


[3/25/2020 4:01 PM] doug.emes
i know i know, bad human


[3/25/2020 4:02 PM] doug.emes
we wont talk about my game hours on Neverwinter


[3/25/2020 4:02 PM] doug.emes
or the MUDs in the 90s and 00's

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[3/25/2020 4:22 PM] nullinterface
Oddly enough I seem to have quasi mod powers but have never used them


[3/25/2020 4:36 PM] doug.emes
probably tied to the announce only functionality


[3/25/2020 4:45 PM] hon1nbo
actually when you have a high enough reputation in discourse it automatically grants a limited set of mod powers


[3/25/2020 5:09 PM] andrew5152
remarkably salient points in this:

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[3/25/2020 5:11 PM] yashsedai
which ones?


[3/25/2020 5:16 PM] andrew5152
Our membership numbers are down. the quitters are at record numbers. (not sure on the 3d fab thing; doesn't really matter to me), and the number of chairs who have resigned and blamed the board is [probably] at a record. The bickering probably is the reason people stay away from talk. And this probably does come down to (rough paraphrase) if you like the direction of DMS in the last year, vote for the folks who were part of that; if you don't vote for the other faction. I think it goes off the rails for where the common sense, community approach representation lies, however.


[3/25/2020 5:21 PM] canibalcrab
Electronics, science, glass and screenprinting also moved


[3/25/2020 5:21 PM] canibalcrab
Digital media


[3/25/2020 5:21 PM] canibalcrab
The people crying about "community" were the same people who were shouting "WE ARENT A CLUBHOUSE ANYMORE" two years ago

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[3/25/2020 5:22 PM] yashsedai
To set the blame on the current board for down membership numbers is hilarious


[3/25/2020 5:22 PM] canibalcrab
Yeah that's bullshit too


[3/25/2020 5:22 PM] canibalcrab
Just like how Trump claimed he turned the economy around like 2 months into presidency


[3/25/2020 5:22 PM] yashsedai
As for banned people and resigned chairs, one might look at the circumstances before placing blame.


[3/25/2020 5:22 PM] canibalcrab
(feels like every president does it tho)

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[3/25/2020 5:23 PM] yashsedai
Its nice to list those negatives out and put the "blame" on this board. Many are issues that would have had to have been dealt with by any board


[3/25/2020 5:23 PM] yashsedai
DMS has spent a good long while living the high life on luck and rainbows.


[3/25/2020 5:24 PM] yashsedai
I don't say this to say that the work put in was not worthy, I say this to explain that the success has been a lot of right place right time.


[3/25/2020 5:24 PM] yashsedai
(The later success)


[3/25/2020 5:31 PM] andrew5152
I largely agree. Most of what has happened NEEDED to happen. That's why I think THIS B&O is the common sense, community approach.


[3/25/2020 5:38 PM] kenpurcell
Community! (thieves, rapist, etc.) But there are 99.9% that are amazing people just wanting to do their thing! I was on the BoD to try and keep that happening. It took everyone on D&O and some other really committed people on the ships wheel to make the course correction we needed. Could you imagine if we were expansion broke?


[3/25/2020 7:06 PM] skyspook
It didn't go on long enough, but we seemed to be regaining members as well at the beginning of this year. Not a very fast growth. But now we have quite a cliff.


[3/25/2020 7:08 PM] hon1nbo
yup, lot of covid cancellations


[3/25/2020 7:08 PM] hon1nbo
!members


[3/25/2020 7:08 PM] dallas-makerspace#4763
There are currently 1807 members.


[3/25/2020 7:09 PM] andrew5152
yeah. it's been plummety in the last week... (shown in Brandon's charts, I think...)


[3/25/2020 7:13 PM] hon1nbo
yeah I know; I get every cancellation notice and why they cancel


[3/25/2020 7:14 PM] hon1nbo
Covid, covid, "covid lol"


[3/25/2020 7:16 PM] canibalcrab
We had a very successful ad campaign going and the Saturday tours helped

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[3/25/2020 7:17 PM] canibalcrab
Having smaller tour groups is hugely important. But you need lots of tour guides for that


[3/25/2020 7:22 PM] skyspook
Yea, I think people tend to sign up more if they get some more time to ask their questions and spend time just on what they're interested in. Although I did have most of a large group sign up -- and boy does a large group doing that show we need to work on our signup 🙂


[3/25/2020 7:39 PM] nullinterface
If it's not "can't use because of covid" it's "laid off because of covid"


[3/25/2020 8:16 PM] skyspook
Yea, and I'm sympathetic to both. I'm impressed it's not dropped off more still. Though we still have plenty of time


[3/25/2020 8:18 PM] canibalcrab
theres actually a lot of people who would like to see the space hang around and will continue the membership to do so


[3/25/2020 8:18 PM] canibalcrab
right now i think we are seeing the customers not being able to use the space and of course being indignant about it


[3/25/2020 8:19 PM] aceat64
heck, Haley lives in CA and rejoined specifically to help support DMS during this


[3/25/2020 8:19 PM] stephenie.
@AGr identified the fragility in our membership retention in a functioning economy.  Imagine worse in this once in a 100 years collapse.


[3/25/2020 8:20 PM] canibalcrab
the "get a membership while its cheaper" was one of the worst pushes the space made for membership


[3/25/2020 8:20 PM] agr0090
Will be interesting if same drop off rate applies now as in the past, in which case in 6 months membership number will be half


[3/25/2020 8:20 PM] agr0090
That's if it stayed closed for that long, which seems unlikely


[3/25/2020 9:07 PM] nullinterface
it's likely to be another 2-3 weeks at the least


[3/25/2020 9:07 PM] nullinterface
suspect the membership drop will intensify as this drags on


[3/25/2020 9:37 PM] skyspook
Yep. Perhaps some may be waiting until just before their charge date, and I'm sure we'll see a decent drop in the first 30 days of closure. Not sure how low though.


[3/25/2020 10:24 PM] kenpurcell
would be an opportune time to rework rates once we have a plan to reopen.


[3/25/2020 10:25 PM] kenpurcell
I'm a big fan of $50, that extra $10 makes me pause.

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[3/25/2020 10:36 PM] ferricyanide7475
Im pretty sure my job is stable so i can hang in here a bit and see how things go. Ben got laid off, so his situation is different. (If anyone is hiring anything in his skill set let me know, i imagine everything is slow right now though).


[3/26/2020 10:16 AM] hon1nbo
Kevin just challenged people to call the school to see what his position really was
who wants to call him on that bluff? I'm busy today

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[3/26/2020 10:17 AM] andrew5152


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[3/26/2020 10:54 AM] merissa4308
I wish there was a garbage can emoji on Talk for these garbage responses he's giving


[3/26/2020 10:58 AM] andrew5152
♻️ is as close as I can see... Probably not the right sentiment...


[3/26/2020 11:07 AM] sewingstuff2561
I like clown, personally.


[3/26/2020 11:07 AM] sewingstuff2561
The red bird of shitbird is also nice.


[3/26/2020 12:04 PM] michaelb5250
Really want to ask him if he'll do as much on the BoD as he's done while being the Volunteer Coordinator

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[3/26/2020 1:31 PM] kenpurcell
Damn, is that 80-100 hours working for Kevin, the pole business or DMS?


[3/26/2020 1:32 PM] axeonos
I thought he made stripper poles for a living


[3/26/2020 1:36 PM] kenpurcell
Now imagine a dark gentlemen's club with LED poles and no customers. I guess he can sell them as safety handrails.


[3/26/2020 1:38 PM] doug.emes
Vegas has a drive thru reportedly


[3/26/2020 2:26 PM] nullinterface
FYI : 
https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/2020-annual-meeting-elections-info/68873/3


[3/26/2020 2:29 PM] anutterbutter
Makes sense


[3/26/2020 2:33 PM] doug.emes
Hey... in your standing rules edit it mentions chairs for infra and finance.


[3/26/2020 2:34 PM] doug.emes
Should be officers, and probably not perview of infra now that we have a member services coordinator


[3/26/2020 2:55 PM] nullinterface
> Hey... in your standing rules edit it mentions chairs for infra and finance.
If I've mis-transcribed something from a Board meeting, I'd like to know, however I believe that was something before my term as Secretary


[3/26/2020 3:38 PM] doug.emes
I meant there's no such thing as a finance chair


[3/26/2020 3:38 PM] doug.emes
There's no such thj b.f as a infra chair


[3/26/2020 3:38 PM] doug.emes
Based on your other standing rules edits


[3/26/2020 3:39 PM] doug.emes
With the unified officer documents


[3/26/2020 3:39 PM] doug.emes
The last comme t regarding  coordinator is a suggestion only


[3/26/2020 3:40 PM] doug.emes
But if the role is to be believed by title, that's who should get involved


[3/26/2020 5:07 PM] aceat64
Changing the rules requires a board vote, even if they are unclear or a section is out of date due to another section changing

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[3/26/2020 5:09 PM] aceat64
I'm also confused on what you mean by standing rules edit, the last edit to the page was on March 4th and makes no mention of chairs or officers


[3/26/2020 5:22 PM] nullinterface
THAT


[3/26/2020 5:22 PM] nullinterface
For the most part I don't even correct blinkingly obvious typos without a Board resolution


[3/26/2020 6:16 PM] judykriehn3727
Yeah. THAT.


[3/26/2020 6:18 PM] judykriehn3727
This oddity was explained to me a year ago by Chris Marlowe, when I noted weirdness in the rules regarding responsibilities bestowed upon a committee that no longer even existed. Erik was nice enough to help me draft the resolution - which was on the one of the first board agendas for the current board back whenever they took office. (June?) So if it be wrong, draft a resolution and put on the agenda.


[3/26/2020 9:16 PM] doug.emes
Supporting Member must have been a member for the immediate past 90 days to become a Regular Member. Exceptions will be considered on a case by case basis jointly by the Infrastructure and Finance Chairs.


[3/26/2020 9:16 PM] doug.emes
That's the quote verbatim


[3/26/2020 9:17 PM] doug.emes
Hence .... secretary officially adds things to board agendas etc


[3/26/2020 9:20 PM] aceat64
ok, but that hasn't changed recently and to change it would need a board vote


[3/26/2020 9:28 PM] doug.emes
And he places agenda itens


[3/26/2020 9:28 PM] doug.emes
Hence judy and I mentioning this herr


[3/26/2020 9:30 PM] rayearth42
Anyone can make an agenda item for a board meeting but we don't have another meeting scheduled, the March meeting was to be our last one


[3/26/2020 9:42 PM] doug.emes
I think it stems back from BoD MtG 201i0917


[3/26/2020 9:43 PM] doug.emes
But trying to use the wiki to search for it... ugh


[3/26/2020 9:43 PM] canibalcrab
im confused what the goal is doug


[3/26/2020 9:44 PM] doug.emes
Define finance committee chair


[3/26/2020 9:44 PM] doug.emes
We don't have one


[3/26/2020 9:44 PM] canibalcrab
we missed a change


[3/26/2020 9:44 PM] canibalcrab
*volunteers*


[3/26/2020 9:48 PM] aceat64
The way you worded it about being an edit was confusing, it sounded like there was a recent change you were talking about


[3/26/2020 9:49 PM] doug.emes
No I meant since he posted it fresh in that post, it needs an edit


[3/26/2020 9:49 PM] doug.emes
If that was unclear my bad


[3/26/2020 9:49 PM] doug.emes
But... hes the chief who drafted the combinedproposal, who drafted the unified roles,


[3/26/2020 9:50 PM] doug.emes
And it would take me alot longer to find the neccessary documentation to correct than the author


[3/26/2020 9:50 PM] doug.emes
As for agenda items, ice done several in the past 6 months, almost all tables or dismissed, so yes, I'm familiar with the process


[3/26/2020 9:50 PM] doug.emes
But for this example, I believe Erik is the best submitteor


[3/26/2020 9:50 PM] doug.emes
Ugh spelling


[3/26/2020 9:59 PM] nullinterface
Best I can tell, the present Board is well aware that they're in a lame duck period forced by the COVID 19 situation, and really only wants to keep the organization solvent and making what progress that it can during this shutdown.  The next Board may well wish to take a different direction and may or may not follow the current board's informal procedures.


[3/26/2020 10:01 PM] nullinterface
I can certainly draft something which along with the tabled items from the last meeting the next Board may deign to consider


[3/26/2020 10:03 PM] doug.emes
Thanks that's all I'm asking for


[3/26/2020 10:03 PM] doug.emes
But as written that standing rule is broke


[3/26/2020 10:09 PM] canibalcrab
but everyone understands how it works


[3/26/2020 10:19 PM] nullinterface
A project I had hoped to achieve this year but never did was to rationalize and segment up the standing rules


[3/26/2020 10:21 PM] nullinterface
Keep really important stuff like (most of) the code of conduct as the top level doc but divert stuff like membership rules, committee ops, firearms rules, etc into their own documents


[3/26/2020 10:24 PM] nullinterface
The bylaws more or less need to be *replaced outright* but that struggle is more than I can manage


[3/26/2020 10:24 PM] doug.emes
I concur with your italicized text


[3/28/2020 4:08 PM] aceat64
is Raffi ok?


[3/28/2020 4:09 PM] aceat64
he pinged me multiple times in a very short window


[3/28/2020 4:15 PM] sewingstuff2561
Maybe he could use some of Havens’ pot brownies.  God knows he has more than enough to share.

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[3/28/2020 8:36 PM] sewingstuff2561
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning

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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning
Sealioning
Sealioning (also spelled sea-lioning and sea lioning) is a type of trolling or harassment which consists of pursuing people with persistent requests for evidence or repeated questions, while maintaining a pretense of civility and sincerity. It may take the form of "incessant, ...


[3/28/2020 9:37 PM] james_david_vance
> he pinged me multiple times in a very short window
@aceat64 ??? On what platform?


[3/28/2020 9:41 PM] toenolla
BTW @DJ Vance there is a little more info on Mark's motivations in the thread I linked.  He wanted it so he could send out mass BOD campaign mailers.


[3/28/2020 9:43 PM] toenolla
Personally, I don't think that rises to a legitimate purpose.


[3/28/2020 9:44 PM] sewingstuff2561
Reading is for chumps


[3/28/2020 9:45 PM] sewingstuff2561
Defending notorious shitbirds is where it’s at.


[3/28/2020 9:45 PM] toenolla
hah...well, it's buried in a lot of mincewords


[3/28/2020 9:46 PM] ferricyanide7475
So exactly what circumstances would that information be given out? All i haven gotten from that thread is a need to edit that information to something else


[3/28/2020 9:46 PM] james_david_vance
> Defending notorious shitbirds is where it’s at.
@SewingStuff "Raffi bad. Raffi troll. Troll bad. Raffi bad."


[3/28/2020 9:46 PM] ferricyanide7475
I don't exactly mind to get information from DMS proper or if the police needed it.


[3/28/2020 9:47 PM] ferricyanide7475
But i don't want random members being able to request it

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[3/28/2020 9:47 PM] toenolla
We send out annual election announcements in the mail, or used to.


[3/28/2020 9:49 PM] james_david_vance
I would support a change to the bylaws that changes how that information is accessed. Maybe a more formalized process and only to those who have given consent. We probably already ask for consent to send emails, but I think having separate consent for sharing emails through these requests would be wise.


[3/28/2020 9:51 PM] james_david_vance
I don't think the bylaws mention that the requestor has to be a member.


[3/28/2020 9:51 PM] toenolla
Until we change the bylaws, though, we have to rely on fiduciary duty and common sense.


[3/28/2020 9:51 PM] james_david_vance
lemme check


[3/28/2020 9:55 PM] aceat64
Raffi, in that thread you tagged me multiple times in like an hour lol


[3/28/2020 9:58 PM] sewingstuff2561
Raffi you are really more of a sealion if we want to get specific.


[3/28/2020 9:58 PM] james_david_vance
Yeah just lean into it


[3/28/2020 9:58 PM] sewingstuff2561
I’m just saddened that you’re wasting everyone’s time in defense of maybe the worst person at DMS.


[3/28/2020 9:58 PM] james_david_vance
Anyway, this is interesting: https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/BO/htm/BO.22.htm#22.158


[3/28/2020 9:59 PM] james_david_vance
and relevant I might add


[3/28/2020 9:59 PM] james_david_vance
lol


[3/28/2020 9:59 PM] sewingstuff2561
I wasn’t really missing Draco.


[3/28/2020 10:03 PM] toenolla
And I mean...in the end, the BOD was right.  He really was acting in bad faith.


[3/28/2020 10:03 PM] anutterbutter
Raffi, Mark Havens seems to be much more interested in his own results than DMS, can't seem to understand no over night vehicles, trying to use DMS mailing list for his own purposes, you don't seem bad, just asking for info.

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[3/28/2020 10:10 PM] canibalcrab
Havens thought the board was trying to silence him with a ban. In reality he was printing whole reams of paper worth of trolly flyers making fun of candidates ans putting up false campaign flyers for them.


[3/28/2020 10:11 PM] canibalcrab
And pinning buttons on old fragile costumes that members had been asked to put on display for an art gallery


[3/28/2020 10:13 PM] james_david_vance
> And I mean...in the end, the BOD was right.  He really was acting in bad faith.
@Toenolla Wait are you Mark?


[3/28/2020 10:13 PM] james_david_vance
lol


[3/28/2020 10:14 PM] james_david_vance
To me this is not an argument of Mark good vs. Mark bad. That's what I'm picking up from you guys


[3/28/2020 10:14 PM] toenolla
@DJ Vance He didn't put his intended use in the request.  That's what I mean by bad faith.


[3/28/2020 10:14 PM] james_david_vance
> @DJ Vance He didn't put his intended use in the request.  That's what I mean by bad faith.
@Toenolla I'll take that as a yes


[3/28/2020 10:14 PM] sewingstuff2561
Raffi “This murderer has murdered 14 people.  How dare you assume that when he was poised over a 15th person with a knife that he intended to murder them.”


[3/28/2020 10:15 PM] toenolla
@DJ Vance definitely a no, though.


[3/28/2020 10:15 PM] canibalcrab
When he was told that he damaged another members work, he responded by calling the member a baby and made his own version of the costume to put on display in the form of a baby blanket to further drive his opinion home


[3/28/2020 10:16 PM] canibalcrab
He was told to stop posting the false statements,and he thought he should have access to the mailing addresses of the voting members so he could mail them directly


[3/28/2020 10:19 PM] james_david_vance
> Raffi “This murderer has murdered 14 people.  How dare you assume that when he was poised over a 15th person with a knife that he intended to murder them.”
@SewingStuff I'm not saying the board should have given the benefit of the doubt. My argument, for probably not the last time, is that the bylaws say that the purpose is stated in the letter.


[3/28/2020 10:20 PM] michaelb5250
No but see the guy said he wasn't going murder #15 so we're just gonna give him a knife to hold over him.


[3/28/2020 10:21 PM] canibalcrab
The lawyer at the time said we shouldn't give him the addresses


[3/28/2020 10:22 PM] sewingstuff2561
Raffi knows way better than an actual lawyer.  He totally googled it.


[3/28/2020 10:22 PM] sewingstuff2561
Did Raffi ragequit and give his account to Draco or do we just have two of these fucking guys now?


[3/28/2020 10:23 PM] toenolla
@DJ Vance What stated purpose though?  Can you tell what he intended to do with the information from that language?  I can't.


[3/28/2020 10:24 PM] james_david_vance
> The lawyer at the time said we shouldn't give him the addresses
@pearce That's a fair point. Who's our lawyer?


[3/28/2020 10:25 PM] canibalcrab
Uhhhh


[3/28/2020 10:25 PM] toenolla
You have to actually state a purpose when you make a request like this.


[3/28/2020 10:25 PM] james_david_vance
I mean I can probably find it, but


[3/28/2020 10:25 PM] canibalcrab
I'd have to look. I don't have to deal with him so I don't know off the top of my head


[3/28/2020 10:26 PM] canibalcrab
I do know its a different person now


[3/28/2020 10:26 PM] james_david_vance
hmm wonder why


[3/28/2020 10:27 PM] james_david_vance
I wonder what our new lawyer's thoughts are on this


[3/28/2020 10:27 PM] andrew5152
Family Guy re-runs on. Season 1. The. Best. Show...


[3/28/2020 10:27 PM] canibalcrab
Because hold my beer burned a few


[3/28/2020 10:27 PM] james_david_vance
> The lawyer at the time said we shouldn't give him the addresses
@pearce When you say addresses here, do you mean email addresses, mailing addresses, or both?


[3/28/2020 10:28 PM] canibalcrab
Voting members info


[3/28/2020 10:28 PM] canibalcrab
Whatever he asked for


[3/28/2020 10:28 PM] canibalcrab
I'm not speaking in specifics here so let's not try to word lawyer me on phrasing


[3/28/2020 10:28 PM] toenolla
@DJ Vance Personally, I don't think it's worth paying our lawyer to reexamine this.


[3/28/2020 10:29 PM] james_david_vance
> @DJ Vance Personally, I don't think it's worth paying our lawyer to reexamine this.
@Toenolla Even without knowing how much it would cost?


[3/28/2020 10:29 PM] aceat64
Raffi, what do you think we should do in the situation that someone requests info under the bylaws, provides a clear purpose, the lawyer says give them the info, but a board member blocks it?


[3/28/2020 10:29 PM] toenolla
@DJ Vance yes.  It's not worth a dime.  He's not pursuing the data anymore.


[3/28/2020 10:31 PM] james_david_vance
> Raffi, what do you think we should do in the situation that someone requests info under the bylaws, provides a clear purpose, the lawyer says give them the info, but a board member blocks it?
@aceat64 Who is "we" in that sentence?


[3/28/2020 10:31 PM] aceat64
we the membership


[3/28/2020 10:31 PM] aceat64
or rather, what should happen to that board member?


[3/28/2020 10:31 PM] aceat64
hypothetically


[3/28/2020 10:31 PM] james_david_vance
ban for life


[3/28/2020 10:31 PM] andrew5152
It's the one where Stewie and Brain RV across the US to San Francisco to meet "Stewie's Fathter"...


[3/28/2020 10:31 PM] james_david_vance
jk there are much better ways of handling that


[3/28/2020 10:31 PM] aceat64
awesome, glad to hear you agree with the Kris ban then


[3/28/2020 10:31 PM] aceat64
lol


[3/28/2020 10:32 PM] james_david_vance
I think the membership should vote at the next election


[3/28/2020 10:34 PM] james_david_vance
If the lawyer says the blocking access to the info is against the Texas Business Organizations Code, then that action could put us in jeopardy of losing our non-profit status. I think that's how that works anyway


[3/28/2020 10:35 PM] aceat64
yes, usually it's best to go with the lawyer's advice


[3/28/2020 10:35 PM] aceat64
which is what the board did in regards to Mark's request way back then

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[3/28/2020 10:36 PM] andrew5152
wasn't that pretty much the first time DMS felt the need to retainer a lawyer?


[3/28/2020 10:36 PM] aceat64
I'm not sure, I think we may have had him before that


[3/28/2020 10:36 PM] sewingstuff2561
Has anyone ever seen the movie Hellraiser?


[3/28/2020 10:38 PM] andrew5152
Have not seen hellraiser


[3/28/2020 10:38 PM] andrew5152
remember the poster


[3/28/2020 10:38 PM] andrew5152
were you reduced to watching that to fill your evening?


[3/28/2020 10:40 PM] sewingstuff2561
So spoiler alert, there’s a scene where one character wears another character’s skin and tries to pretend to be him but you can figure out who he really is from his behavior.

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[3/28/2020 10:40 PM] james_david_vance
> which is what the board did in regards to Mark's request way back then
@aceat64 Like I said, that's fair. But "because the lawyer said so" is very different from "because we thought that he had intentions of doing something improper"


[3/28/2020 10:41 PM] sewingstuff2561
I’m just saying that Draco may have found a puzzle box promising him endless camo.

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[3/28/2020 10:41 PM] aceat64
they said both of those things in the thread though...


[3/28/2020 10:43 PM] james_david_vance
> they said both of those things in the thread though...
@aceat64 My argument was more about what the board should have done. Seems like they were stopped from doing what they should have done by a lawyer, which I think excuses them from responsibility.


[3/28/2020 10:44 PM] toenolla
I mean, the board did do what it should have done.  Ask the lawyer.


[3/28/2020 10:45 PM] toenolla
Like, personally if it came down to me, I would have asked him to resend it with more detailed information.  But I'm not a lawyer.


[3/28/2020 10:49 PM] james_david_vance
I'm pretty sure we're in violation of this: https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/BO/htm/BO.22.htm#22.158


[3/28/2020 10:49 PM] james_david_vance
"(a)   After setting a record date for the notice of a meeting, a corporation shall prepare an alphabetical list of the names of all its voting members.  The list must identify:

(1)  the members who are entitled to notice and the members who are not entitled to notice of the meeting;

(2)  the address of each voting member;  and

(3)  the number of votes each voting member is entitled to cast at the meeting.

(b)  Not later than the second business day after the date notice is given of a meeting for which a list was prepared in accordance with Subsection (a), and continuing through the meeting, the list of voting members must be available at the corporation's principal office or at a reasonable place in the municipality in which the meeting will be held, as identified in the notice of the meeting, for inspection by members entitled to vote at the meeting for the purpose of communication with other members concerning the meeting.

(c)  A voting member or voting member's agent or attorney is entitled on written demand to inspect and, at the member's expense and subject to Section 22.351, copy the list at a reasonable time during the period the list is available for inspection.

(d)  The corporation shall make the list of voting members available at the meeting.  A voting member or voting member's agent or attorney is entitled to inspect the list at any time during the meeting or an adjournment of the meeting."


[3/28/2020 10:49 PM] sewingstuff2561
I’m pretty sure you don’t have the education or experience to make any statements on that matter Google esquire


[3/28/2020 10:50 PM] james_david_vance
> I’m pretty sure you don’t have the education or experience to make any statements on that matter Google esquire
@SewingStuff There is are no education or experience requirements for Discord and possibly for advising the board as a lawyer


[3/28/2020 10:51 PM] james_david_vance
> I’m pretty sure you don’t have the education or experience to make any statements on that matter Google esquire
@SewingStuff Were you the one who claimed to be a fan of reading?


[3/28/2020 10:52 PM] sewingstuff2561
Advising AS A LAWYER?  Oh honey you sure aren’t in any position to be doing THAT.


[3/28/2020 10:52 PM] james_david_vance
> Advising AS A LAWYER?  Oh honey you sure aren’t in any position to be doing THAT.
@SewingStuff you may have missed the joke


[3/28/2020 10:53 PM] sewingstuff2561
This whole thing is really kind of a joke.


[3/28/2020 10:56 PM] james_david_vance
Good. Laugh. It lowers your cortisol levels
I'm no doctor though


[3/28/2020 10:57 PM] toenolla
I'm really glad we have the politics channel (no that isn't sarcasm)


[3/28/2020 10:58 PM] nullinterface
we're not a typical corporation where there's equity and dividends at stake thus the damages that can be claimed in a lawsuit are so low as to not be worth litigating


[3/28/2020 10:59 PM] nullinterface
WRT to Mr Havens, I will say that short of some truly shocking - borderline *inconceivable* - revelations there is nothing that will motivate me to vote for him


[3/28/2020 10:59 PM] hon1nbo
raffi I suggest you read the most important section regarding ordinary care: ```Sec. 22.221.  GENERAL STANDARDS FOR DIRECTORS.  (a)  A director shall discharge the director's duties, including duties as a committee member, in good faith, with ordinary care, and in a manner the director reasonably believes to be in the best interest of the corporation.

(b)  A director is not liable to the corporation, a member, or another person for an action taken or not taken as a director if the director acted in compliance with this section.  A person seeking to establish liability of a director must prove that the director did not act:

(1)  in good faith;

(2)  with ordinary care;  and

(3)  in a manner the director reasonably believed to be in the best interest of the corporation.```


[3/28/2020 11:00 PM] hon1nbo
tl;dr an officer would be violating ordinary care if they handed info over knowing it was going to be used to commit a crime etc


[3/28/2020 11:00 PM] sewingstuff2561
I wouldn’t vote for Havens if the candidates only consisted of Havens.


[3/28/2020 11:00 PM] hon1nbo
like falsifying documents, harassment, etc


[3/28/2020 11:04 PM] nullinterface
WRT information requests, *there are certain individuals it DMS that I will simply not be giving information to*


[3/28/2020 11:05 PM] nullinterface
I'm not going to drop names, but I have every reason to believe that requests from those individuals would be counter to the interests of the corporation


[3/28/2020 11:35 PM] draco_the_drake
..... to the interests of the .... current board et al


[3/28/2020 11:38 PM] sewingstuff2561
Did someone open the goddamn puzzle box?


[3/28/2020 11:38 PM] draco_the_drake
Some things are pretty solid in law, just as voting members being able to communicate with other voting members about a meeting, even if the communication is not something the current administration likes.


[3/28/2020 11:39 PM] sewingstuff2561


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[3/28/2020 11:44 PM] patrickpleez1
@SewingStuff that puzzle box is pretty cool. I recently saw one that was like this except it was an actual lock box. Very intricate.


[3/28/2020 11:44 PM] draco_the_drake
Patrick let us out


[3/28/2020 11:45 PM] sewingstuff2561
It may be my fault for saying your name three times.


[3/28/2020 11:46 PM] patrickpleez1
Like beetle juice


[3/28/2020 11:46 PM] draco_the_drake
that would do it .... well. I'm here now


[3/28/2020 11:46 PM] draco_the_drake
happy?


[3/28/2020 11:46 PM] sewingstuff2561
I mean it’s either you or your skinwalker.


[3/28/2020 11:47 PM] patrickpleez1
Terms that sound bad: skinwalker being added to my list of nope words


[3/28/2020 11:48 PM] draco_the_drake
I think I am who I am but I might just be dreaming all this


[3/28/2020 11:48 PM] draco_the_drake
Soooo what has been going on?


[3/28/2020 11:49 PM] draco_the_drake
What did I miss?


[3/28/2020 11:50 PM] draco_the_drake
And that is a really cool box @SewingStuff


[3/28/2020 11:50 PM] draco_the_drake
I wonder if that is goldleaf


[3/28/2020 11:51 PM] patrickpleez1
@Draco in reference to what did I miss? Use your face eyes, man.


[3/28/2020 11:52 PM] draco_the_drake
Looks like Raffi was debating and then I showed up .. she asked if someone opened a puzzle box and let us out


[3/28/2020 11:52 PM] sewingstuff2561
Well, not us, you.


[3/28/2020 11:53 PM] draco_the_drake
Me and Raffi .. I mean but if it was just me .. okay


[3/28/2020 11:54 PM] draco_the_drake
Any interesting politics to talk about?


[3/28/2020 11:54 PM] draco_the_drake
Replacing all the Red chairs with Green ones?


[3/28/2020 11:56 PM] sewingstuff2561
I love the red chairs.  They’re amazingly comfortable.


[3/28/2020 11:56 PM] patrickpleez1
The red chairs aren’t terrible @Draco why does everyone hate those things


[3/28/2020 11:57 PM] draco_the_drake
no they aren't terrible .. they just aren't good


[3/28/2020 11:58 PM] patrickpleez1
The chairs serve the purpose of sits


[3/28/2020 11:58 PM] draco_the_drake
Depends on body shape


[3/28/2020 11:58 PM] draco_the_drake
and how long you want to sit ...


[3/28/2020 11:59 PM] sewingstuff2561
I actually do find them really comfortable.  I wish you guys would get rid of them.  I’d scoop them all up for my classroom.


[3/28/2020 11:59 PM] draco_the_drake
I'm all for people hanging out for several hours at the space


[3/28/2020 11:59 PM] draco_the_drake
not forever but many hours


[3/28/2020 11:59 PM] draco_the_drake
I think different people have different ideas of comfort .. so having a verity is most likely best


[3/29/2020 12:01 AM] patrickpleez1
Not all human spines and butts are created equally I suppose.


[3/29/2020 12:02 AM] draco_the_drake
It is why they created so many different chairs 😉


[3/29/2020 12:02 AM] draco_the_drake
donations are great too


[3/29/2020 12:02 AM] draco_the_drake
but I am not a fan of the chairs donated in the wearhouse


[3/29/2020 12:02 AM] draco_the_drake
or use to be in the wearhouse .. no idea where they are now .. the cloth squatty ones


[3/29/2020 12:03 AM] draco_the_drake
I cannot wait until the computer lab is up and running


[3/29/2020 12:03 AM] draco_the_drake
that is going to be so great


[3/29/2020 12:04 AM] patrickpleez1
I’ll agree to the computer lab.


[3/29/2020 12:04 AM] patrickpleez1
Everyone involved with that has done great work.


[3/29/2020 12:06 AM] draco_the_drake
Does the space still have the freebie shelf?


[3/29/2020 12:07 AM] patrickpleez1
You mean the member exchange shelf? Yes.


[3/29/2020 12:10 AM] draco_the_drake
ah ok .. renamed


[3/29/2020 12:10 AM] draco_the_drake
cool


[3/29/2020 12:12 AM] patrickpleez1
I like the name change. Feels more correct.


[3/29/2020 12:12 AM] draco_the_drake
yeah me too


[3/29/2020 12:12 AM] draco_the_drake
But can you exchange members?


[3/29/2020 12:13 AM] draco_the_drake
😛


[3/29/2020 12:13 AM] sewingstuff2561
I was really hoping for it to be the “trashed in the dumpster” shelf


[3/29/2020 12:13 AM] draco_the_drake
not a fan then


[3/29/2020 12:14 AM] draco_the_drake
It has its problems but I do think it is useful .. I've pulled many good and useful things from it


[3/29/2020 12:20 AM] patrickpleez1
@SewingStuff , I wasn’t upset when it left, all I’m saying is I wish members were more responsible and respectful of what they put in there.


[3/29/2020 12:21 AM] patrickpleez1
On*


[3/29/2020 12:22 AM] patrickpleez1
There is a sign in black and white no one reads.


[3/29/2020 12:23 AM] draco_the_drake
I think people in the past have felt ownership in the space.  They felt like they belonged and it wasn't some top driven org.   I think the more people feel that way, the more that they want to be members instead of customers.   Customers don't care because someone else will take care of it.   True members actually care enough not to mess things up and even clean up and volunteer.   It is my opinion that we went down a path that enables more customers than members.


[3/29/2020 12:24 AM] sewingstuff2561
Who pressed the community button on Draco?  Someone remove his batteries.


[3/29/2020 12:25 AM] patrickpleez1
All I said was read a sign?


[3/29/2020 12:25 AM] draco_the_drake
Well, Jim did .. https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/to-whom-it-may-concern-your-forum-thanks-are-kinda-rude/70440/3

{Embed}
https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/to-whom-it-may-concern-your-forum-thanks-are-kinda-rude/70440/3
To whom it may concern, your forum "Thanks" are kinda rude
You’re not a customer, you’re a member. That means being part of a community; you’re part of an organization that’s run by people giving back and following a set of basic courtesies. The moderation team is all volunteers, just like everyone else that makes this place run.  If ...
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/0OK-ECXRRic8iVlNPWJl2h-I2VEr-ewqbcCWgwhrfZc/https/talk.dallasmakerspace.org/user_avatar/talk.dallasmakerspace.org/hon1nbo/200/31151_2.png


[3/29/2020 12:25 AM] patrickpleez1
We have community. Just because it’s not what you’re used to doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.


[3/29/2020 12:26 AM] draco_the_drake
I'm not saying it doesn't exist


[3/29/2020 12:26 AM] draco_the_drake
It certainly does exist


[3/29/2020 12:26 AM] draco_the_drake
and i didn't mention community ... I said ownership


[3/29/2020 12:26 AM] canibalcrab
That's some boomer shit


[3/29/2020 12:26 AM] canibalcrab
Getting mad at a forum default thread

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[3/29/2020 12:26 AM] patrickpleez1
I got a bunch of people together who willingly wanted to do a stupid video. And it got a lot of good reception from members.

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[3/29/2020 12:27 AM] patrickpleez1
I mean, community is still alive and well at DMS.


[3/29/2020 12:27 AM] draco_the_drake
It is.. but is ownership


[3/29/2020 12:27 AM] draco_the_drake
?


[3/29/2020 12:28 AM] draco_the_drake
doacrcy ... being able to pick up a project and just run with it


[3/29/2020 12:28 AM] draco_the_drake
being able to have a committee to answer to and not always the board


[3/29/2020 12:28 AM] draco_the_drake
Having committees be the mainstay


[3/29/2020 12:29 AM] patrickpleez1
That can still happen. It should have always just went through the proper channels.


[3/29/2020 12:29 AM] draco_the_drake
Proper channels should be committees


[3/29/2020 12:29 AM] draco_the_drake
not the board or officers


[3/29/2020 12:30 AM] patrickpleez1
If a change involves the space or an area within, the board and officers have every right to approve or deny.


[3/29/2020 12:30 AM] draco_the_drake
I'm for limited upper administration and more committee level decisions


[3/29/2020 12:31 AM] nullinterface
Gonna have to fundamentally restructure DMS to achieve that ideal, Draco.  All the way down to the Certificate of Formation and change it to a Member-managed corporation.


[3/29/2020 12:32 AM] draco_the_drake
No.. I disagree .. the bylaws give committee government


[3/29/2020 12:32 AM] draco_the_drake
This is the way it has been for a while before this year


[3/29/2020 12:32 AM] draco_the_drake
and perhaps the one before that


[3/29/2020 12:33 AM] nullinterface
you are factually wrong


[3/29/2020 12:34 AM] nullinterface
https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Bylaws#Section_2.1_Board_of_Directors
> Section 2.1 Board of Directors
> The activities and affairs of this corporation shall be overseen by the Board of Directors, subject to the provisions of the laws of the state of Texas and any limitations in the Articles of Incorporation and these Bylaws.

{Embed}
https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Bylaws
Bylaws


[3/29/2020 12:34 AM] nullinterface
and this is why I have you on ignore


[3/29/2020 12:34 AM] patrickpleez1
@ESmith Then there would be no point in elected and appointed positions. Which wouldn’t be good. I get that’s what he wants. @Draco the spending and sporadic decisions needed to be managed. We needed the changes we received.

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[3/29/2020 12:34 AM] judykriehn3727
Uhhhh. Draco, did you hit your head while you were un-membered?


[3/29/2020 12:35 AM] nullinterface
@Patrickpleez1 the Board governs the corporation, most effectively so by delegating functions out ala Officers and Committees


[3/29/2020 12:35 AM] nullinterface
They however retain ultimate responsibility and control


[3/29/2020 12:35 AM] draco_the_drake
I'm sorry .. I'm not arguing that the board is not the final word .. I'm saying that their place is to interface other governements / officials .. make sure committees have all the resources to function.   Take care of just the basics, though


[3/29/2020 12:36 AM] judykriehn3727
From where I sit, the committee system is working fine; the Board rides herd on big purchases. As it should have been all along.


[3/29/2020 12:36 AM] sewingstuff2561
I didn’t pour myself enough to play the Draco drinking game tonight


[3/29/2020 12:36 AM] nullinterface
OK, now you're making more sense


[3/29/2020 12:36 AM] draco_the_drake
Bylaws: "Each committee may adopt rules for its own government not inconsistent with these Bylaws or with guidelines given by the Board of Directors."
The board gives guidelines.


[3/29/2020 12:37 AM] sewingstuff2561
Oh he said bylaws!


[3/29/2020 12:37 AM] draco_the_drake
Drink!


[3/29/2020 12:37 AM] patrickpleez1
Take a shot


[3/29/2020 12:37 AM] nullinterface
I wish the committees would take a bit more ownership.  I also wish the Board had set more into motion to encourage this ala the big restructure to finances and honorarium that's been talked about since before this Board term.


[3/29/2020 12:38 AM] draco_the_drake
*nods* ... I think the committees may need more tools and classes on running an effective committee .. education after all.


[3/29/2020 12:38 AM] sewingstuff2561
Ooh he said education!


[3/29/2020 12:39 AM] nullinterface
i.e. *set an annual budget* for committees like woodshop, give them a goal for training, then let them figure out how to best achieve the rest of their goals.


[3/29/2020 12:40 AM] patrickpleez1
@ESmith I agree with the tagged statement towards me. And also, I also agree with everything you said in reference to ownership. But I do agree to continue on an upswing it still needs to be monitored until we regain our numbers.


[3/29/2020 12:41 AM] nullinterface
Even today committees largely seem to hold meetings, decide they want something, then ask for authority to get it without a heck of a lot of planning

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[3/29/2020 12:42 AM] draco_the_drake
I think they should have a budget being the max that they can ask for from the board.   Any other money has to come from elsewhere .. we need to get back to the chain that worked .....

Public/Members "votes" for Instructors through attendance, Instructors "vote" for committees through honorarium.    This worked but it some how got broken this past year.   I'm not going to place blame but move forward.   We need to be able to reconnect the chain and allow committees to find teachers to "earn" money instead of always asking the board.    This is what I mean by more committee run.   THEY have to find teachers ... THEY have to "earn" money ... the memebrship has to buy into it too


[3/29/2020 12:42 AM] patrickpleez1
Fuck. I meant a different emoji @ESmith how do I change that.


[3/29/2020 12:42 AM] nullinterface
think you can click on it again.  or just add the right one.


[3/29/2020 12:42 AM] nullinterface
it's temporal comms so no worries


[3/29/2020 12:43 AM] patrickpleez1
Okay. Thank you. I hate discord sometimes.


[3/29/2020 12:44 AM] nullinterface
@Draco the idea is to decouple committee finances from teaching classes and let them decide how to meet their **required training** mandates


[3/29/2020 12:45 AM] patrickpleez1
I also think committee budgets should fluctuate with our up and down season.


[3/29/2020 12:45 AM] nullinterface
if that means putting in the volunteer hours on video/web training for the rote stuff and a 5 minute practical scheduled twice-weekly for certification by a volunteer then that committee can pretty much *stop spending money on training*


[3/29/2020 12:47 AM] draco_the_drake
If a committee starts floundering ... there will need to be some sort of way to get this from data  .. then ask the committee not the chair if they want help .. then provide it in terms of instruction .. money if they can prove they have a plan .. and if the committee fails .. then allow another group to come and start again .. 

The committees shouldn't be "the membership" .. it should be a group of people willing to all put in effort for something they want ...


[3/29/2020 12:47 AM] nullinterface
now that's more back-of-the-house tool-centric, natch.  the model for front-of-the-house committees might have to be different.


[3/29/2020 12:47 AM] patrickpleez1
That’s one thing I’m adamant on making happen. The online training.


[3/29/2020 12:47 AM] nullinterface
*project* classes seems to drive those committees


[3/29/2020 12:47 AM] patrickpleez1
I want it streamlined.


[3/29/2020 12:48 AM] patrickpleez1
I want someone who just came in, to be able to get into wood shop within 3 hours of joining.


[3/29/2020 12:48 AM] patrickpleez1
I think that’s a logical timetable


[3/29/2020 12:50 AM] draco_the_drake
I think part of a good committee .. is having meetups/interest groups .. let me explain why
Many people come for the tools .. that is true
But many also come for the knowledge and socialization aspects .. being able to meet other like minded people
This is where interest groups come in .. it can be utilized by committees to gain members and popularity


[3/29/2020 12:50 AM] nullinterface
I think Paul is working on correcting the *woodworker*-centric training model in woodshop now, which assumes everyone using their tools wants to make cabinets or furniture when the reality is that there's a bit *carpenter* demographic that really just wants to cut stock to size and drill holes


[3/29/2020 12:51 AM] draco_the_drake
a committee meeting is a poor interest group


[3/29/2020 12:51 AM] draco_the_drake
not very INTERESTing


[3/29/2020 12:51 AM] patrickpleez1
I teach a wood shop class and I can get a one on one through in an hour.


[3/29/2020 12:52 AM] nullinterface
that works for some of the DMS member base, but do keep in mind that most of our members are here for personal projects and the social aspect is hit-or-miss.  We might convert more of those folks to long-term members, we might just retain them for longer, or we might miss the mark entirely.


[3/29/2020 12:52 AM] patrickpleez1
And that’s showing everything they do in the shop.


[3/29/2020 12:53 AM] patrickpleez1
@ESmith I see the retention issue as a challenge I want to take on.


[3/29/2020 12:53 AM] draco_the_drake
The socialization aspect has to be rebuilt ... it was popular a while back .. a whole lot of people were not getting their social fix, I keep hearing since all the changes happened


[3/29/2020 12:53 AM] draco_the_drake
some classes were even aspects of that socialzaion


[3/29/2020 12:54 AM] nullinterface
@Patrickpleez1 Member Services is working on things in that area - improving the onboarding process would help immensely

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[3/29/2020 12:54 AM] draco_the_drake
I think member retention is more important than onboarding


[3/29/2020 12:54 AM] nullinterface
onboarding happens *first*


[3/29/2020 12:55 AM] patrickpleez1
I have a few ideas of my own. And I hope that what they do, and what I have came up with mesh well, if o get elected.


[3/29/2020 12:55 AM] draco_the_drake
I think onboarding IS important .. very imporant


[3/29/2020 12:55 AM] patrickpleez1
I*


[3/29/2020 12:55 AM] draco_the_drake
but if you just have onboarding and no retention .. you have very high churn


[3/29/2020 12:55 AM] hon1nbo
we lose members because they don't know anything coming in


[3/29/2020 12:55 AM] nullinterface
because **boy howdy** is DMS a lot for our somewhat ... reserved ... general demo that has no earthly idea how to do things


[3/29/2020 12:55 AM] hon1nbo
more so than we lose members because of "social" stuff

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[3/29/2020 12:56 AM] hon1nbo
they leave because they don't know they can ask "hey can we get a class on this"


[3/29/2020 12:56 AM] draco_the_drake
Well, if you think about who sticks around ... they all know each other


[3/29/2020 12:56 AM] nullinterface
members get lost in the crowd and eventually drop out


[3/29/2020 12:56 AM] hon1nbo
or "FYI the calendar should be checked regularly, classes often don't show until a couple days before"

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[3/29/2020 12:56 AM] nullinterface
or they can't get access to some tool / class


[3/29/2020 12:56 AM] draco_the_drake
Yes .. they do get lost in the crowd


[3/29/2020 12:56 AM] hon1nbo
if you need something don't be afraid to ask committee chairs

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[3/29/2020 12:56 AM] hon1nbo
etc


[3/29/2020 12:56 AM] hon1nbo
yup


[3/29/2020 12:56 AM] patrickpleez1
> we lose members because they don't know anything coming in
@hon1nbo (k/j/t) exsilium  I feel this is because the tours lack information sometimes


[3/29/2020 12:56 AM] hon1nbo
the tours aren't the right place for this info


[3/29/2020 12:57 AM] nullinterface
the handbook seems to come and go


[3/29/2020 12:57 AM] nullinterface
the wiki 4-1-1 page isn't bad, but the wiki format only seems to really work for entrenched insiders

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[3/29/2020 12:57 AM] stephenie.
social stuff = on-site drinking/drunkenness and several people literally living at DMS.


[3/29/2020 12:58 AM] draco_the_drake
"members get lost in the crowd and eventually drop out" .. I think if they do not have friends that are there, do not access to the tools/training, feel unwelcome and no way to really meet like-minded people  .. it has very little with living at the space or drinking


[3/29/2020 12:58 AM] patrickpleez1
> the tours aren't the right place for this info
@hon1nbo (k/j/t) exsilium  I believe that people should be informed of class fees and such. I have always included this info in my tours.


[3/29/2020 12:59 AM] nullinterface
@stephenie there did used to be a huge degree of that.  and I'm of a mind that we should not be encouraging members to use DMS as substitute dining rooms and living rooms.  *But* I will agree that some degree of *fellowship* should be encouraged - however I see it regularly despite calls to the contrary.


[3/29/2020 1:00 AM] nullinterface
What I see less of nowadays is co-dependency on DMS


[3/29/2020 1:00 AM] hon1nbo
> "members get lost in the crowd and eventually drop out" .. I think if they do not have friends that are there, do not access to the tools/training, feel unwelcome and no way to really meet like-minded people  .. it has very little with living at the space or drinking
@Draco the first part of this is irrelevant to most members; they come here to use tools and make stuff, take classes. They generally don't come to socialize.


[3/29/2020 1:00 AM] patrickpleez1
> social stuff = on-site drinking/drunkenness and several people literally living at DMS.
@stephenie  I may be a fan of drinking a beer or two here or there. But I was never a fan of it at DMS


[3/29/2020 1:01 AM] hon1nbo
> @hon1nbo (k/j/t) exsilium  I believe that people should be informed of class fees and such. I have always included this info in my tours.
@Patrickpleez1 Again, not the right place. Say some classes have fees, others don't. But this is not a good place to retain information


[3/29/2020 1:01 AM] hon1nbo
> @stephenie  I may be a fan of drinking a beer or two here or there. But I was never a fan of it at DMS
@Patrickpleez1 as someone cleaning up the aftermath and dealing with the severe things that happened I'm not either


[3/29/2020 1:01 AM] draco_the_drake
This has been one of the major changes @hon1nbo (k/j/t) exsilium that has happened that has upset me .. more people are now running businesses out of the space it seems instead of going there to meet friends and be creative


[3/29/2020 1:02 AM] patrickpleez1
> What I see less of nowadays is co-dependency on DMS
@ESmith  I had an argument with someone a few weeks ago about this.


[3/29/2020 1:02 AM] nullinterface
Also, given the reality that we're a communal *workshop*, I do not feel we should encourage loitering around at DMS **all day**


[3/29/2020 1:02 AM] hon1nbo
> This has been one of the major changes @hon1nbo (k/j/t) exsilium that has happened that has upset me .. more people are now running businesses out of the space it seems instead of going there to meet friends and be creative
@Draco running business != those members that just want to use tools


[3/29/2020 1:02 AM] hon1nbo
stop conflating your personal reason for DMS with everyone else


[3/29/2020 1:02 AM] hon1nbo
many members want to make things for themselves and don't care to deal with others


[3/29/2020 1:03 AM] hon1nbo
they want to take the class, make their things


[3/29/2020 1:03 AM] draco_the_drake
There are many reasons for DMS including tools and socialization .. can we not have both?


[3/29/2020 1:03 AM] hon1nbo
not everyone that's there for personal reasons wants to socialize


[3/29/2020 1:03 AM] nullinterface
@hon1nbo (k/j/t) exsilium in fact I'll bet that many members don't even adopt the *maker* identity

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[3/29/2020 1:03 AM] hon1nbo
> There are many reasons for DMS including tools and socialization .. can we not have both?
@Draco we aren't a social club; if people want to socialize sure, but don't conflate it with everything else people want to do


[3/29/2020 1:03 AM] patrickpleez1
@hon1nbo (k/j/t) exsilium I am not saying handout a comprehensive list of pricing. But it’s good the guides know a lot of the pricing for questions. And most definitely the basic pricing.


[3/29/2020 1:04 AM] draco_the_drake
I beg to differ with you @hon1nbo (k/j/t) exsilium.. part of our mission IS social collaboration


[3/29/2020 1:04 AM] hon1nbo
> @hon1nbo (k/j/t) exsilium I am not saying handout a comprehensive list of pricing. But it’s good the guides know a lot of the pricing for questions. And most definitely the basic pricing.
@Patrickpleez1 my statement stands; it's nice, but it isn't where people retain the info


[3/29/2020 1:04 AM] hon1nbo
needs to be provided in other means


[3/29/2020 1:04 AM] hon1nbo
> I beg to differ with you @hon1nbo (k/j/t) exsilium.. part of our mission IS social collaboration
@Draco It's not *all* of the mission though, and again don't force your reasons for DMS into other members' being here


[3/29/2020 1:05 AM] patrickpleez1
@hon1nbo (k/j/t) exsilium I’ve had a lot of people in tours, that knowing pricing made or broke a membership sale.


[3/29/2020 1:05 AM] draco_the_drake
No it isn't all of it .. correct


[3/29/2020 1:05 AM] hon1nbo
this is *you* conflating *your* reason to be here


[3/29/2020 1:05 AM] hon1nbo
with others'


[3/29/2020 1:05 AM] nullinterface
@Draco you can ... just don't expect accommodation ala a fully-equipped kitchen, lounge, super-comfortable chairs, the freedom to *claim* spots within the space, nor toleration of displacing other members who are just here to get work done

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[3/29/2020 1:05 AM] draco_the_drake
I'm saying we can have both


[3/29/2020 1:05 AM] hon1nbo
> I'm saying we can have both
@Draco we already have it within reason


[3/29/2020 1:05 AM] hon1nbo
what people have been calling "community loss" is their loss of a free ride

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[3/29/2020 1:05 AM] hon1nbo
which we never were


[3/29/2020 1:06 AM] draco_the_drake
I'm not talking about a free ride or living at the space


[3/29/2020 1:06 AM] hon1nbo
but people tried to make it


[3/29/2020 1:06 AM] draco_the_drake
I'm talking about interest groups/meetings


[3/29/2020 1:06 AM] canibalcrab
We could have had both. But people decided to make it their living spaces and showed that we were wasting money on supporting their living habits


[3/29/2020 1:06 AM] draco_the_drake
meetups


[3/29/2020 1:06 AM] hon1nbo
and we have those, and nothing stops them


[3/29/2020 1:06 AM] draco_the_drake
Except support


[3/29/2020 1:06 AM] hon1nbo
except they do


[3/29/2020 1:06 AM] draco_the_drake
I think we can do better with supporting them


[3/29/2020 1:06 AM] hon1nbo
except we already do a lot


[3/29/2020 1:06 AM] nullinterface
they wanted a farking outdoor gas grill on the north side and likely 240V outdoor outlets


[3/29/2020 1:07 AM] hon1nbo
nothing is missing from that perspective


[3/29/2020 1:07 AM] patrickpleez1
> I think we can do better with supporting them
@Draco  supporting who?


[3/29/2020 1:07 AM] hon1nbo
except the unreasonable


[3/29/2020 1:07 AM] draco_the_drake
@Patrickpleez1 Supporting meetups or interest groups ...


[3/29/2020 1:07 AM] draco_the_drake
for social collaboration


[3/29/2020 1:07 AM] hon1nbo
still not saying what support is "missing"


[3/29/2020 1:08 AM] patrickpleez1
You mean like the writing group you used@to have meet here?


[3/29/2020 1:08 AM] themitch22
how about use committee funds to have a pizza party for the meetings, that'd get community involvment


[3/29/2020 1:08 AM] hon1nbo
we already provide meeting spaces, calendar, mailing lists, etc etc

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[3/29/2020 1:08 AM] nullinterface
@Draco you can already indulge in your notions of community as-is.  there's nothing to prevent you from spending 4, 8, 12, 16 hours a day at the Space


[3/29/2020 1:08 AM] draco_the_drake
No DMS acknowledges them .. but I think there can be much more to enable them


[3/29/2020 1:08 AM] canibalcrab
Next he's going to say we should allow alcohol at the space again


[3/29/2020 1:08 AM] hon1nbo
> how about use committee funds to have a pizza party for the meetings, that'd get community involvment
@themitch22 oh yeah, this large pizza was a meeting that was consumed off site


[3/29/2020 1:08 AM] hon1nbo
people ruined it for us


[3/29/2020 1:09 AM] hon1nbo
> No DMS acknowledges them .. but I think there can be much more to enable them
@Draco you're again just being vague and not actually giving an example. Note the several concrete examples above of how we already support and enable them


[3/29/2020 1:09 AM] patrickpleez1
> they wanted a farking outdoor gas grill on the north side and likely 240V outdoor outlets
@ESmith  who wanted these things?


[3/29/2020 1:09 AM] nullinterface
Stan at first


[3/29/2020 1:09 AM] draco_the_drake
See there is even push back on me wanting to promote them here .. you all jump to alcohol or a fully-functioning kitchen?   Why do you jump that far?


[3/29/2020 1:09 AM] nullinterface
I'm sure Adnan *et al* were all for it too


[3/29/2020 1:10 AM] patrickpleez1
Yeah. We can’t have that crap.


[3/29/2020 1:10 AM] patrickpleez1
I am not for living at the space.


[3/29/2020 1:10 AM] stephenie.
Adnan lived at the space


[3/29/2020 1:10 AM] hon1nbo
> See there is even push back on me wanting to promote them here .. you all jump to alcohol or a fully-functioning kitchen?   Why do you jump that far?
@Draco because you've yet to state anything that's actually missing, and historically when this comes up it's all been unreasonable requests like those


[3/29/2020 1:10 AM] draco_the_drake
Why is Interest Groups/Meetup  == living at the space now ... @Patrickpleez1


[3/29/2020 1:10 AM] nullinterface
@Draco because that was the take-away last time.  But please offer concrete suggestions that don't revolve around quasi-*residency*

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[3/29/2020 1:10 AM] canibalcrab
Coul lived *inside* the space


[3/29/2020 1:11 AM] patrickpleez1
> Why is Interest Groups/Meetup  == living at the space now ... @Patrickpleez1
@Draco  this is separate than what I’m taking to @ESmith about.


[3/29/2020 1:11 AM] draco_the_drake
oh ok


[3/29/2020 1:11 AM] nullinterface
Nothing drives away the normies **that are our core demo** like the sight of people actually or nearly living at DMS

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[3/29/2020 1:12 AM] draco_the_drake
I think if the space was close to an RV park it would have been great ... tell everyone to go there and walk to the space


[3/29/2020 1:12 AM] ferricyanide7475
@Patrickpleez1 where is a copy of the video you guys made?


[3/29/2020 1:12 AM] themitch22
So what exactly are you arguing about @Draco


[3/29/2020 1:12 AM] hon1nbo
> 
> I think if the space was close to an RV park it would have been great ... tell everyone to go there and walk to the space
> @Draco great for a very small subset of members, but not much of anyone else


[3/29/2020 1:12 AM] patrickpleez1
> @Patrickpleez1 where is a copy of the video you guys made?
@ferricyanide  which one?


[3/29/2020 1:12 AM] themitch22
committee meetings and interest groups can do whatever they want as long as it doesn't break the by-laws


[3/29/2020 1:12 AM] patrickpleez1
> Coul lived *inside* the space
@pearce  have I met this person?


[3/29/2020 1:13 AM] canibalcrab
wears the fancy red cowboy hat


[3/29/2020 1:13 AM] canibalcrab
has a big dog


[3/29/2020 1:13 AM] canibalcrab
was pr chair


[3/29/2020 1:13 AM] nullinterface
I mean, honestly, what do you want to do to *encourage community* other than nebulous *do more?*


[3/29/2020 1:13 AM] hon1nbo
> So what exactly are you arguing about @Draco
@themitch22 who knows; like usual refuses to give anything concrete. Something something we don't support sigs/meetups then when it's pointed out we do says well we don't enable them then when we point out we do rambles off. WHo knows at this point.


[3/29/2020 1:13 AM] themitch22
Sandy Lake RV park is $500/mo for a spot and that's close, then two walmarts near by


[3/29/2020 1:13 AM] patrickpleez1
> wears the fancy red cowboy hat
@pearce  don’t think I’ve ever met him.


[3/29/2020 1:14 AM] themitch22
oh yeah Coul did he get banned or just dissapeared?


[3/29/2020 1:14 AM] draco_the_drake
@themitch22  ... I'm getting resistance to most anything that even comes close to support social collaboration because there is a knee jerk reaction from them jumping to living at the space


[3/29/2020 1:14 AM] stephenie.
> I think if the space was close to an RV park it would have been great ... tell everyone to go there and walk to the space
@Draco The Space is near cheap motels.  We already have members who live there and walk over.


[3/29/2020 1:14 AM] hon1nbo
@themitch22 just went off


[3/29/2020 1:14 AM] ferricyanide7475
The one from the picture it looked like you guys had lab coats and kevin t


[3/29/2020 1:14 AM] hon1nbo
> @themitch22  ... I'm getting resistance to most anything that even comes close to support social collaboration because there is a knee jerk reaction from them jumping to living at the space
@Draco because you won't give us an example of something we don't already do, and because of that it reverts to what the discussion last time around was for "supporting" and "enabling" more groups


[3/29/2020 1:15 AM] stephenie.
> oh yeah Coul did he get banned or just dissapeared?
@themitch22 disappeared.  But he's a Mark Havens in the making.  Someone who should have been banned, but is likely to return.


[3/29/2020 1:15 AM] hon1nbo
you keep making this complaint


[3/29/2020 1:15 AM] hon1nbo
despite the fact we do support and enable SIGs/meetups, and you can't think of anything to actually suggest we do more


[3/29/2020 1:15 AM] nullinterface
@Draco 
> I'm getting resistance to most anything that even comes close to support social collaboration because there is a knee jerk reaction from them jumping to living at the space
Because about all the details you seem to offer are oblique harkback to *how things used to be*


[3/29/2020 1:15 AM] canibalcrab
but not far enough back


[3/29/2020 1:15 AM] nullinterface
thus, we all look back to problems that we've gotten past


[3/29/2020 1:16 AM] canibalcrab
still under the hold my beer board


[3/29/2020 1:16 AM] draco_the_drake
How about a website like meetup for makers?    How about not thinking of an interest group as a mini-committee or a committee as a large interest group?


[3/29/2020 1:16 AM] themitch22
I'm guessing because group meetings and stuff end up getting into space politics and drama, Is that's why you quit@Draco ?


[3/29/2020 1:17 AM] draco_the_drake
I quit for finance reasons and because I was getting alot of flack from certain people and decided to not come back because I saw some people get banned.


[3/29/2020 1:18 AM] hon1nbo
> How about a website like meetup for makers?    How about not thinking of an interest group as a mini-committee or a committee as a large interest group?
@Draco We already provide support for non SIG interest groups and meetings. Look at that robotics group that comes in. They can talk shop on our forum, they can ask for a mailing list etc. they can use our calendar to schedule events


[3/29/2020 1:18 AM] themitch22
SIG - no money/space allocated, committee - space and money allocation. I agree that meetup.com would be a good way to advertise for classes and meetups for DMS publically.


[3/29/2020 1:18 AM] hon1nbo
how about actually suggesting something *we don't already do*

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[3/29/2020 1:19 AM] draco_the_drake
If you already do it .. great .. what is the website?


[3/29/2020 1:19 AM] themitch22
DPRG is grandfathered into support but yeah I agree we do support SIG's


[3/29/2020 1:19 AM] themitch22
calendar.dallasmakerspace.org


[3/29/2020 1:20 AM] themitch22
it would be great to have meetups.com integration with our calendar


[3/29/2020 1:20 AM] draco_the_drake
umm that would be a poor meetup.com


[3/29/2020 1:20 AM] themitch22
surprisingly a lot of people come from those sites.

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[3/29/2020 1:20 AM] draco_the_drake
oh nothing wrong with the actual meetup com


[3/29/2020 1:21 AM] nullinterface
@Draco no sympathy on "people getting banned".


[3/29/2020 1:21 AM] themitch22
this is sounding more like a PR thing and not DMS thing


[3/29/2020 1:21 AM] themitch22
well DMS PR


[3/29/2020 1:21 AM] stephenie.
> ... and decided to not come back because I saw some people get banned.
@Draco  so you have a problem with thieves and drunks and belligerents being shown the door?


[3/29/2020 1:22 AM] draco_the_drake
I do have a problem with thieves and drunks and belligerents at the space


[3/29/2020 1:22 AM] themitch22
well nacho,  but the rest I definitely think deserved it.


[3/29/2020 1:22 AM] nullinterface
Nothing like some ol fisticuffs and drug-induced outbursts to frighten off the normies

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[3/29/2020 1:22 AM] patrickpleez1
> @Draco  so you have a problem with thieves and drunks and belligerents being shown the door?
@stephenie  no one should have an issue with people who deserve it getting the boot.


[3/29/2020 1:22 AM] patrickpleez1
> Nothing like some ol fisticuffs and drug-induced outbursts to frighten off the normies
@ESmith  I can’t agree to this statement enough.


[3/29/2020 1:23 AM] stephenie.
@Patrickpleez1 apparently Draco does have a problem...he said that's why he quit.


[3/29/2020 1:23 AM] themitch22
DMS fightclub events only happen off premises.


[3/29/2020 1:23 AM] draco_the_drake
but I also have a problem with the authoritarian and fault based ideals that keep being perpetuated .. an atmosphere of bans .. mmmm


[3/29/2020 1:23 AM] themitch22
who's fault?


[3/29/2020 1:24 AM] hon1nbo
> oh nothing wrong with the actual meetup com
@Draco which is what I said. There isn't a need to make a replacement. Writing software for our own version of it, when the actual one works just fine, is nothing more than a waste of time with an inferior result, that requires ongoing maintenance.


[3/29/2020 1:24 AM] nullinterface
I mean, *be excellent to one another* suggests we should expect better behavior than you encounter at the post office, a public park, or in line at the megalomart


[3/29/2020 1:24 AM] patrickpleez1
> but I also have a problem with the authoritarian and fault based ideals that keep being perpetuated .. an atmosphere of bans .. mmmm
@Draco  the people who get the boot usually deserve the damn boot...


[3/29/2020 1:24 AM] draco_the_drake
Pointing out faults ... being captious


[3/29/2020 1:24 AM] canibalcrab
people keep yelling about an increase in bans. but they dont seem to understand that with more members, more shitbags come in

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[3/29/2020 1:24 AM] draco_the_drake
I see a ton of that this past year


[3/29/2020 1:25 AM] nullinterface
> but I also have a problem with the authoritarian and fault based ideals that keep being perpetuated .. an atmosphere of bans .. mmmm
So we're supposed to do what with thieves, drunks, aggressive people?


[3/29/2020 1:25 AM] hon1nbo
> and unlike the prior board when a complaint came in they didn't sit on it


[3/29/2020 1:25 AM] patrickpleez1
@Draco because when numbers grow so do problems. It’s math.


[3/29/2020 1:25 AM] nullinterface
bring in a facilitator with an acoustic guitar?

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[3/29/2020 1:25 AM] canibalcrab
and having to enforce all the rules that the hold my beer board decided not to enforce at all


[3/29/2020 1:25 AM] hon1nbo
we had a member that operated the lift with someone's head in it and was willfully causing damage, and the prior board just silently ignored it.


[3/29/2020 1:25 AM] themitch22
I think some of this happened in the past two years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory

{Embed}
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory
Broken windows theory
The broken windows theory is a criminological theory that states that visible signs of crime, anti-social behavior, and civil disorder create an urban environment that encourages further crime and disorder, including serious crimes. The theory suggests that policing methods th...
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/KuJUS9OwWjpvJ6GCVFp3EylGRmCxFaqCMy8DX8AWKQM/https/upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6e/Pentonvilleiso19.jpg

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[3/29/2020 1:26 AM] draco_the_drake
The problem with drunks/theives/etc didn't happen suddenly


[3/29/2020 1:26 AM] hon1nbo
we had several fire alarms caused by drunk members they chose to ignore, even when their drunken antics caused more serious problems


[3/29/2020 1:26 AM] patrickpleez1
> we had a member that operated the lift with someone's head in it and was willfully causing damage, and the prior board just silently ignored it.
@hon1nbo (k/j/t) exsilium  What. The. Fuck


[3/29/2020 1:26 AM] hon1nbo
no, but we have a board that enforces the rules


[3/29/2020 1:26 AM] draco_the_drake
but it was addressed suddently


[3/29/2020 1:26 AM] hon1nbo
> @hon1nbo (k/j/t) exsilium  What. The. Fuck
@Patrickpleez1 aye


[3/29/2020 1:26 AM] draco_the_drake
and harshly


[3/29/2020 1:26 AM] hon1nbo
the glorious "master mechanic" that if I ever see their face again I will ensure it's not in automotive


[3/29/2020 1:26 AM] nullinterface
@themitch22 we haven't been *looking* for people to make examples of


[3/29/2020 1:26 AM] stephenie.
> The problem with drunks/theives/etc didn't happen suddenly
@Draco right.  The HoldMyBeer(tm) Board ignored them, were friends with them.


[3/29/2020 1:27 AM] draco_the_drake
So you cleaned house, did you?


[3/29/2020 1:27 AM] draco_the_drake
!members


[3/29/2020 1:27 AM] dallas-makerspace#4763
There are currently 1779 members.


[3/29/2020 1:27 AM] hon1nbo
@Draco kinda what happens with perpetual thieves, violent members, constantly abusing equipment even after being banned from said equipment, sexual assault, the list goes on


[3/29/2020 1:27 AM] nullinterface
@Draco "I don't like it" is fine, but just admit that's more or less all you've got


[3/29/2020 1:28 AM] hon1nbo
previous president was too busy conspiring against other board members and robbing the space to bother dealing with them

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[3/29/2020 1:29 AM] stephenie.
> So you cleaned house, did you?
@Draco  That about sums it up.


[3/29/2020 1:29 AM] canibalcrab
and better members are coming back because of it

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[3/29/2020 1:30 AM] ferricyanide7475
Who was this "master mechanic"


[3/29/2020 1:30 AM] patrickpleez1
Also, this is the longest conversation and most I’ve used talk.


[3/29/2020 1:30 AM] patrickpleez1
Discord


[3/29/2020 1:31 AM] hon1nbo
don't know his name, but will recognize the face if I ever see him again. Kris didn't bother getting his name, didn't bother handling it at all. I had originally grabbed a director because of the fact it was escalation with the guy screaming in automotive


[3/29/2020 1:31 AM] canibalcrab
> Who was this "master mechanic"
@ferricyanide ? i missed the post


[3/29/2020 1:32 AM] hon1nbo
just asec


[3/29/2020 1:32 AM] hon1nbo
> we had a member that operated the lift with someone's head in it and was willfully causing damage, and the prior board just silently ignored it.


[3/29/2020 1:32 AM] hon1nbo
@pearce


[3/29/2020 1:32 AM] stephenie.
Oh, and who can forget Kris letting Grant use 102 without a certificate of occupancy?  Then harassing Ethan for confronting her?

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[3/29/2020 1:33 AM] stephenie.
Fish rots from the head down


[3/29/2020 1:33 AM] canibalcrab
micheal lass used to be at the space a bunch, and came back recently. sounds like him. he talked a lot about being a master mechanic


[3/29/2020 1:33 AM] hon1nbo
I haven't seen the guy in like a year


[3/29/2020 1:34 AM] hon1nbo
we've had a few "master mechanics" in auto


[3/29/2020 1:35 AM] patrickpleez1
> micheal lass used to be at the space a bunch, and came back recently. sounds like him. he talked a lot about being a master mechanic
@pearce  I don’t know if that would be him or not. He doesn’t give off the vibe a being an ass much.


[3/29/2020 1:35 AM] canibalcrab
generally you are correct, but he gets heated


[3/29/2020 1:36 AM] canibalcrab
he would also be hammered at the space and try to work on cars while they were on jacks


[3/29/2020 1:36 AM] patrickpleez1
> generally you are correct, but he gets heated
@pearce  could be. And I’ve seen that side a time or two.


[3/29/2020 1:36 AM] nullinterface
at least that guy that used to hang around machine shop hammered doesn't seem to be around any more.  had trouble *walking around corners* routinely.

{Reactions}
💯

[3/29/2020 2:06 AM] ferricyanide7475
had trouble *walking around corners* routinely.
@ESmith


[3/29/2020 2:06 AM] ferricyanide7475
I feel attacked


[3/29/2020 9:44 AM] kenpurcell
If you want a Social Club there is a IRS specific non-profit for it 501 (c)(7)


[3/29/2020 9:53 AM] kenpurcell
Oh, my this was a funny read this morning


[3/29/2020 10:06 AM] nullinterface
Arguably, 501c7 is *what we are* already


[3/29/2020 11:54 AM] sewingstuff2561
I went to bed too early.


[3/29/2020 12:01 PM] sewingstuff2561
Is Tapper a member again?


[3/29/2020 12:30 PM] hon1nbo
apparently he is not. I knew he stopped showing up but didn't realize he dropped it


[3/29/2020 12:30 PM] hon1nbo
gonna fix that


[3/29/2020 5:10 PM] james_david_vance
@SewingStuff If you could keep your worthless posts to this thread or off-topic and out of the computer committee thread it would be mildly appropriate. Thanks

{Reactions}
🤡

[3/29/2020 5:10 PM] sewingstuff2561
Tough guy Raffi is going to send me a PM about this guys. I’d better watch out!


[3/29/2020 5:12 PM] james_david_vance
I blocked you so you're going to try to have fun on your own now 👋


[3/29/2020 5:14 PM] sewingstuff2561
Heartbreaking


[3/29/2020 5:18 PM] patrickpleez1
What did I miss to cause that?


[3/29/2020 5:19 PM] sewingstuff2561
I posted a clown picture in the mostly unused computer committee channel and he flipped his red wig and PMed me, posted two dumb posts in two channels, and blocked me.  Lol


[3/29/2020 5:20 PM] patrickpleez1
Interesting. That doesn’t seem like “excellent” behavior. These channels dint get used too often as whole. Any post is a good post here. We all just shoot the shit.


[3/29/2020 5:20 PM] patrickpleez1
Don’t


[3/29/2020 5:20 PM] sewingstuff2561
This was after he wasted everyone’s time for days defending Mark Havens then posted some dumb post about how he didn’t really trust him he was just defending him for days.


[3/29/2020 5:21 PM] sewingstuff2561
I think it’s pretty comical.   Raffi was a lot better when he just confined his activities to his dead committee.


[3/29/2020 5:21 PM] patrickpleez1
Yeah. Mark messaged me about revoking my nomination of him.


[3/29/2020 5:24 PM] patrickpleez1
When I found out what happened after years of him being very coy about what happened, I had no choice but to hold my integrity.

{Reactions}
💯 (4) 👏 (2)

[3/29/2020 5:42 PM] michaelb5250
@DJ Vance I mean I'd wish you'd understand how it's not appropriate to write 4 seperate posts in a row on a single topic, but hey we don't always get what we want.

{Reactions}
☝️ (3)

[3/29/2020 5:44 PM] sewingstuff2561
You better be careful or you’re going to get a tough guy PM and a block too because Raffi is totally serious.


[3/29/2020 9:22 PM] judykriehn3727
Can we all get blocked by people who make us roll our eyes?

{Reactions}
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[3/29/2020 9:35 PM] sewingstuff2561
I got a pretty good laugh out of it.


[3/29/2020 9:36 PM] sewingstuff2561
I kind of expected it though.  I’m surprised it took so long.  Lol


[3/29/2020 10:06 PM] michaelb5250
Is being blocked a threat? Or a promise?


[3/29/2020 10:07 PM] engpin1964
I don’t see why he should flip his lid


[3/29/2020 10:07 PM] engpin1964
I’m tempted to post a clown in there too now


[3/29/2020 10:07 PM] sewingstuff2561
It’s really a reward, if you think about it.


[3/29/2020 10:08 PM] sewingstuff2561
I mean he should be grateful since I was the only one who responded and he did ask for a meme and that is one of the first results for “clown meme”


[3/29/2020 10:09 PM] engpin1964
Yeah


[3/29/2020 10:09 PM] canibalcrab
hey lets keep discord better than talk

{Reactions}
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[3/29/2020 10:09 PM] sewingstuff2561
Aw Dad.


[3/29/2020 10:09 PM] engpin1964


{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/694020448161366056/image0.gif?ex=67b93fe9&is=67b7ee69&hm=a940f639c37518b4144fb18d037eb17049fe5df20a378922abe008113a3c86a3&

{Reactions}
💯

[3/29/2020 10:09 PM] canibalcrab
but if you want emotes yall gotta post em so i can add them


[3/29/2020 10:09 PM] sewingstuff2561
That is exactly my reaction.  Lol


[3/29/2020 10:47 PM] yashsedai


{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/694029891930292334/b49.png?ex=67b948b4&is=67b7f734&hm=efb535d0f72da43a4291b9e3cf1fabe3140797c739e6a41d1d0144eb6ca349bf&


[3/29/2020 10:51 PM] sewingstuff2561
I assume we aren’t going to start meltdown Monday at midnight tonight?


[3/29/2020 11:01 PM] draco_the_drake
Meltdown Monday?   It's DMS Afterhours!

https://coub.com/view/2b0hj2

{Embed}
Moustache
https://coub.com/view/2b0hj2
Heads Will Roll
by Moustache
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/kVp-vlP3jN3SA1LPc3Lgy73E602y1fH9GNGE1A2cg-I/https/coubsecure-s.akamaihd.net/get/b39/p/coub/simple/cw_image/75e2e8221fd/1ca3bab0a025c05df6580/med_1584814164_00023.jpg


[3/29/2020 11:07 PM] draco_the_drake
Get your dancewear on ... let loose @SewingStuff ...


[3/29/2020 11:16 PM] james_david_vance
I'm going to need some emotes @pearce


[3/29/2020 11:16 PM] james_david_vance


{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/694037278812536935/Screenshot_20200329-225932__01__01__01__07.jpg?ex=67b94f95&is=67b7fe15&hm=309f6905697ff35709e10456a9a59ecfdf7e1272b0e63c069fe47aef04390715&


[3/29/2020 11:16 PM] james_david_vance


{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/694037308424585266/Screenshot_20200329-225932__01__01__01__05.jpg?ex=67b94f9c&is=67b7fe1c&hm=7dc26c29cbd34b151e4027d326905c2f613bc72e367689cdff0719883bce0001&


[3/29/2020 11:16 PM] james_david_vance


{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/694037357673840671/Screenshot_20200329-225932__01.jpg?ex=67b94fa8&is=67b7fe28&hm=42d2c0570dfb3dc99884975c6ce051ec64daf51ce1608e74f836ab9b231612dc&


[3/29/2020 11:16 PM] james_david_vance


{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/694037383133266031/Screenshot_20200329-225932__01__01__01__01.jpg?ex=67b94fae&is=67b7fe2e&hm=55a953b5cbfa126c0bae80f58c2d41358eb68095d64cce0d3719b498070069c1&


[3/29/2020 11:16 PM] james_david_vance


{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/694037399826858104/Screenshot_20200329-225932__01__01__01__04.jpg?ex=67b94fb2&is=67b7fe32&hm=7f236c697f2c22f826bb8c1f276349e64ab08882c6cd8c0d5eae403dcb467c72&


[3/29/2020 11:17 PM] canibalcrab
https://tenor.com/view/tiny-text-gif-5154350

{Embed}
https://tenor.com/view/tiny-text-gif-5154350
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/LLo8DQAzNzukVCPmCG71y4ZAr_KSbC4c8ogjIKlrE-w/https/media.tenor.co/images/e5d1635c4b516469407ce137b0a070d2/raw

{Reactions}
😂 🤣

[3/29/2020 11:17 PM] canibalcrab
is all you are going to get


[3/29/2020 11:17 PM] canibalcrab
:thatsbait:


[3/29/2020 11:17 PM] james_david_vance
here's the template in case you guys want to add some valuable ones:

{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/694037541908774982/Screenshot_20200329-225932__01__01__01.jpg?ex=67b94fd4&is=67b7fe54&hm=dfed329cf8719709f400e95e8fcc16dbabbbc1cd99ed5cf9d384dfd8e79b8c60&

{Reactions}
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[3/29/2020 11:17 PM] canibalcrab
they show up that big


[3/29/2020 11:17 PM] canibalcrab
:dumpsterfire:


[3/29/2020 11:17 PM] james_david_vance
I'm okay with that


[3/29/2020 11:17 PM] canibalcrab
im not


[3/29/2020 11:17 PM] canibalcrab
standards yo


[3/29/2020 11:18 PM] james_david_vance
ok


[3/29/2020 11:18 PM] canibalcrab
:wtfdyjsamyls:


[3/29/2020 11:18 PM] canibalcrab
you could make a gif tho


[3/29/2020 11:18 PM] canibalcrab
:YouTried:


[3/29/2020 11:19 PM] sewingstuff2561
I’ve got clown which is apparently all I need lately

{Reactions}
trollface

[3/29/2020 11:22 PM] james_david_vance
I think I'll just use them as-is


[3/29/2020 11:22 PM] james_david_vance
not as emotes


[3/29/2020 11:24 PM] james_david_vance
Looks like I missed out on another worthless message


[3/29/2020 11:24 PM] james_david_vance


{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/694039265859862528/unknown.png?ex=67b9516f&is=67b7ffef&hm=e55ac00d770ff3d798c8e679d05961a2d9a0a3575d2e3f8f2706d4ab61852cb4&


[3/29/2020 11:25 PM] sewingstuff2561
Meltdown Monday startin’ early this week


[3/29/2020 11:25 PM] canibalcrab
only 35 mins


[3/29/2020 11:46 PM] engpin1964
https://tenor.com/view/panic-attack-gif-7210501

{Embed}
https://tenor.com/view/panic-attack-gif-7210501
panic attack
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/cD57LWBLWB3LL5fyOzIjU77W90ys5vL-pj4tavm8QPs/https/media.tenor.co/images/d678378e19f223b7611808ffb9368dc0/tenor.png


[3/30/2020 12:01 AM] draco_the_drake
It's midnight!


[3/30/2020 12:01 AM] canibalcrab
I DISAGREE


[3/30/2020 12:01 AM] sewingstuff2561
I need a tiny little nuclear reactor


[3/30/2020 12:02 AM] draco_the_drake
It was when I posted if the stupid lag had not happened


[3/30/2020 12:02 AM] canibalcrab
https://tenor.com/view/start-nuclear-reactor-gif-8399929

{Embed}
https://tenor.com/view/start-nuclear-reactor-gif-8399929
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/zxcvdIqQRLzGfkVWZo1x7ghkD3L20jKW6friMbAaMEI/https/media.tenor.co/images/15680d7c61eaaed2af4a9d6c07b49c7f/tenor.png


[3/30/2020 12:02 AM] draco_the_drake
What is with this lag


[3/30/2020 12:03 AM] canibalcrab
discord is getting a lot of stress testing now days


[3/30/2020 12:05 AM] axeonos
☣️ ☢️ 🚫 ♾️ 🔇 🏴‍☠️ 🗞️ 🖍️


[3/30/2020 12:06 AM] axeonos
🖍️ 🍴


[3/30/2020 12:06 AM] sewingstuff2561
Ooh crayon is a good one.


[3/30/2020 12:06 AM] draco_the_drake
We need more positive like the DMS logo one


[3/30/2020 12:06 AM] axeonos
Then make them


[3/30/2020 12:07 AM] sewingstuff2561
A red stapler would also be appropriate at times.


[3/30/2020 12:07 AM] axeonos
Admins can add emojis but their not mind readers


[3/30/2020 12:08 AM] canibalcrab
also not digital artists


[3/30/2020 12:09 AM] axeonos
You do well with your art....


[3/30/2020 12:37 AM] judykriehn3727
What does a stapler signify?
If I do Art for a pie-in-the-face, would you actually use it?


[3/30/2020 12:40 AM] sewingstuff2561
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd4fj9Efl4s

{Embed}
Jesper Jessen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd4fj9Efl4s
Office Space Milton stapler original
Milton from the 1999 movie Office Space

Merry or Married? Watch this:
http://youtu.be/iZ0e_T8qmzw?t=12m45s

Want a good laugh? Enabled closed captions on this video :D
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/v9rF7C74ASrTFAVjZjF5A0lo1JLXYQNv38GiOz8rm5Y/https/i.ytimg.com/vi/Vd4fj9Efl4s/maxresdefault.jpg


[4/1/2020 3:23 AM] draco_the_drake
Idea: ... lets move the space to Garland!


[4/1/2020 3:24 AM] draco_the_drake
j/k


[4/1/2020 8:28 PM] sewingstuff2561
@Draco why are you clowning it up on Talk today?

{Reactions}
trollface

[4/1/2020 8:34 PM] canibalcrab
He's gotta make sure acme can get their rent via donations for covid


[4/1/2020 8:39 PM] sewingstuff2561
I am getting a chance to trot out my old faithful eye roll emoji.


[4/1/2020 9:04 PM] lavarocks.
Is draco even helping them at all or doing what he normally does and just fights behind the keyboard?

{Reactions}
🤘

[4/1/2020 9:05 PM] lavarocks.


{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/695091542880157726/c9f80ae0648ba4563bec53ead789e98f.jpg?ex=67b930f1&is=67b7df71&hm=79e8c0626fa717b660914807fb632675c54a1e62ecd0be8c2608682450d60f2d&


[4/1/2020 9:08 PM] lavarocks.


{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/695092256901693589/e2e.jpg?ex=67b9319c&is=67b7e01c&hm=b2ba989c75a6edcb25e130c6960f9458cdb34ffc9f3fc6743e709251861594bf&


[4/1/2020 10:01 PM] sewingstuff2561


{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/695105582989836298/image0.png?ex=67b93e05&is=67b7ec85&hm=1b73894bb2460cb5e82df2ef8c8723ec6fcb1c3e29e5e6e01db6c348fe22acf1&


[4/1/2020 10:01 PM] sewingstuff2561
An actual picture of Draco

{Reactions}
😆 (3) thatsbait trollface

[4/9/2020 4:25 PM] judykriehn3727
So. Random query indicative of nothing more than curiosity. What are the numbers for members with voting privileges looking like these days @ESmith ?


[4/9/2020 4:31 PM] nullinterface
It was 290 last time I checked


[4/9/2020 7:30 PM] andrew5152
appears to be ~301, if my count is accurate...


[4/9/2020 7:43 PM] judykriehn3727
I was sorta hoping the number was shrinking...


[4/9/2020 8:00 PM] andrew5152
I"m guessing if we've bothered getting voting rights, we're hardcore...


[4/9/2020 8:00 PM] andrew5152
😄


[4/9/2020 8:05 PM] michaelb5250
That was my thought


[4/13/2020 10:03 PM] Deleted User
Folder: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/19s9vdL9lWloWb3MYZNR2x4QbBXMsTg3B?usp=sharing

Timeline: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1CXd0666LjrdN4sa9QnX7Ptlc851uQKjFsbNYZPH3XTE


[4/13/2020 10:14 PM] yashsedai
Raffi


[4/13/2020 10:14 PM] yashsedai
Go away

{Reactions}
🤫

[4/13/2020 10:14 PM] yashsedai
Stop throwing a tantrum

{Reactions}
🤫 💯

[4/13/2020 10:28 PM] Deleted User
Unwilling to Accept Someone's Reality (aka disagreeing)

{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/699461056552108052/Screen_Shot_2020-04-13_at_10.27.54_PM.png?ex=67b9445f&is=67b7f2df&hm=f9e76f8b4c089174f1f8f2f4643e26b404c1a75f2ede6e4f445c9e76fec8b53a&


[4/13/2020 10:30 PM] ferricyanide7475
We don't want it here either. Learn when to let it go.

{Reactions}
🤫 ☝️

[4/13/2020 10:30 PM] ferricyanide7475
You're annoying


[4/13/2020 10:33 PM] yashsedai
Raffi, we aren't sympathetic to your digging of your own hole. Take your silence and be silent


[4/13/2020 10:34 PM] yashsedai
Otherwise, I'm sure quite a few of us can appeal to this discord server's owner that you are being a dick and you can get another vacay


[4/13/2020 10:35 PM] ferricyanide7475
I think he had made a new account


[4/13/2020 10:35 PM] yashsedai
o.0


[4/13/2020 10:35 PM] yashsedai
Evading a ban?


[4/13/2020 10:36 PM] yashsedai
you are quite correct


[4/13/2020 10:36 PM] yashsedai
@pearce


[4/13/2020 10:43 PM] Deleted User
I'm not avoiding anything. AFAIK my other account is not silenced, that was a 24 hour thing, but that's probably too pedantic, right Frederick?


[4/13/2020 10:44 PM] Deleted User
Seems like some gymnasts are going to put on a show


[4/13/2020 10:45 PM] yashsedai
So why did you make a new account?

{Reactions}
👆

[4/13/2020 10:46 PM] yashsedai
Why not use your existing one?


[4/13/2020 10:46 PM] yashsedai
Could it be that you received a silence?

{Reactions}
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[4/13/2020 10:48 PM] james_david_vance
no


[4/13/2020 10:48 PM] james_david_vance
lol


[4/13/2020 10:49 PM] Deleted User
🤸‍♂️


[4/13/2020 10:49 PM] yashsedai
hrm, allow me to fix that problem for myself


[4/13/2020 10:50 PM] james_david_vance
🤫


[4/13/2020 10:58 PM] ferricyanide7475
You have been told no, why not just go to acme like everyone else that wants to do something?

{Reactions}
👆 (2) 🤫 👍

[4/13/2020 11:02 PM] lavarocks.
Apparently DMS was Raffi's snickers bar.


[4/13/2020 11:05 PM] Deleted User
I wish I could have a snickers bar...


[4/15/2020 5:44 PM] ex__machina
For my edification ferricyanide is who?


[4/15/2020 5:45 PM] canibalcrab
chair of science


[4/15/2020 5:45 PM] canibalcrab
i dont think ive ever caught a name, but i know the face


[4/15/2020 5:58 PM] talkers
Adair


[4/24/2020 7:29 PM] melnick9480
@john a gorman hi


[4/30/2020 11:41 PM] draco_the_drake
Argue... Argue... Politics .. Discuss .. Cuss .. Possible Solution .. Possible Solution Shot Down .. Argue .. Name Call .. Ban


[4/30/2020 11:44 PM] draco_the_drake
Sounds happy to me 😞


[5/1/2020 9:59 AM] nullinterface


{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/705795630706196501/unknown.png?ex=67b93da7&is=67b7ec27&hm=1d34d586ae2853c85f925f4488fd0787dfe88dd2b766c43ede02738a7831097d&

{Reactions}
❤️ (5)

[5/1/2020 12:31 PM] draco_the_drake


{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/705833743495200858/post1.PNG?ex=67b96126&is=67b80fa6&hm=0727ab15331ae6457f673a70849ee307c3687eb4094eb1beb009808561cb785c&

{Reactions}
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[5/9/2020 6:06 PM] james_david_vance
Hearing every complaint and having a public meeting to ban those who violate the process is a much more transparent process than having the board be able to dismiss any complaint with absolute discretion. Especially with complaints where the board has a preexisting relationship with the person complaining and recommending a solution or the person tye complaint is filed against, since that creates a conflict of interest.

Our feedback loop for the board and leadership right now consists of a vote once a year and the complaint/recommended solution process. I think that getting rid of the complaint process, or making it possible for all complaints to be quietly dismissed, is a bad idea. It further weakens the suboptimal feedback loop we have.


[5/9/2020 7:06 PM] draco_the_drake
A future board member has someone give them a Formal Complaint .. they may decide to trash it with the other four board members never hearing a word of it.   That is why they need to hear it in a board meeting and not be able to ignore it.  Plus, there needs to be a record.

{Reactions}
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[5/9/2020 7:10 PM] draco_the_drake
It is super simple to dismiss Formal Complaints in board meetings ... less than a minute

{Reactions}
👍

[5/14/2020 12:56 PM] james_david_vance
I never thought I'd see myself on the same side of an argument as Nick Sainz. Guess I'm not the only one though.

Here we can see a board member's response to when Jim and I were arguing on his SOI thread. This was part of an email notifying me of my two week silencing.

{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/710551126726017064/Screenshot_20200514-125348.jpg?ex=67b9670e&is=67b8158e&hm=a74b0c1307dd7b1b0d425e180c8627ac5b215413155a9f2102d8d0f5e5da81bc&


[5/14/2020 1:09 PM] yashsedai
Never thought I'd see you'd demonstrate behavior that has come close to certain folks thinking you needed a welfare check.

{Reactions}
👆 (3)

[5/14/2020 1:37 PM] lavarocks.
Yeah, heard many people comment that you used to be pretty cool in person but quaratine made you kinda wacky.


[5/14/2020 1:52 PM] kenpurcell
Yes some things got prioritized and some are sitting till a board meeting.


[5/15/2020 5:01 AM] noble_goblin
I mean, I understand why you're being put in time out. I think this isolation has gotten to you. You've been quite argumentative and abrasive lately.


[5/15/2020 9:08 AM] noble_goblin
If Raffi gets a two week time out then why has Chris Fazio not been given the same treatment?


[5/15/2020 9:12 AM] yashsedai
cause while Chris is annoying af, he didnt keep breaking the rules


[5/15/2020 9:19 AM] noble_goblin
A girl can dream.


[5/15/2020 9:19 AM] noble_goblin
But that is fair.


[5/15/2020 12:51 PM] hon1nbo
yeah, Chris has overall been annoying, but he's currently following the rules in terms of not spamming the place. His opinions are his own etc etc, as long as he's not opening threads about them left and right and spamming copy/pasta


[5/16/2020 5:23 PM] james_david_vance
Freddy, I don't know what you're talking about with the welfare check. Maybe I missed something, but I have no problem paying my bills. 

I thought it was very revealing when someone said they thought I relied on the space to make money lol.

As for the quarantine wackiness narrative:

I've gotten positive feedback on the Dallas Coder Night thing I've been doing online during the quarantine. I've had a great time at philosophy every week. 

However, I definitely get very pissed off when people use bullshit arguments, like when Andrew LeCody asserted that 500g of Crisco with some unknown amount of weed in it found in Mark Havens' home was worth $10,000. Or when the board said that not having a meeting was in accordance with the rules, which it clearly wasn't.

It also pisses me off when people abuse their power, e. g. Jim, Michael, and Freddy closing the PPE thread and then all the threads where I question that decision and other abuses of power. The one exception was Jim's SOI, but in that case I got silenced for two weeks, so I was silenced a different way.

I also get pissed when people antagonize me, like when Sewing Stuff kept calling me a clown and even took it into the computer committee channel on here. That one really got to me.

You guys can push that narrative all you want, and it sure is an easy way to dismiss everything I'm saying, but that's all it is: a way of dismissing. It doesn't actually refute anything I've said, though you might think it explains what my mood has been like.

Jim, I haven't spammed. You closed the PPE thread right after I replied to it. I got silenced after criticizing you on your SOI thread. My first post when I came back, about the abuses of power, was closed. That prompted me to try again to have an open conversation, which was met with a prompt thread closure, which prompted.. and so forth until I was banned from Talk for 6 months.

You can't silence someone fro the get-go and then say that you banned them for spamming.


[5/16/2020 5:31 PM] aceat64
look man, I went off what Haven's arrest paperwork said, chill out


[5/16/2020 5:32 PM] aceat64
I assume you were there, that's how you know for a fact the content/purity


[5/16/2020 5:32 PM] james_david_vance
It never said 10 grand, and I don't think even you believed that figure.


[5/16/2020 5:32 PM] aceat64
it specified an amount of hash oil


[5/16/2020 5:32 PM] james_david_vance
lol


[5/16/2020 5:32 PM] aceat64
I asked someone in the industry how much that amount of hash oil was worth


[5/16/2020 5:32 PM] james_david_vance
You're not going to convince me when you yourself don't believe it.


[5/16/2020 5:33 PM] aceat64
ok?


[5/16/2020 5:34 PM] aceat64
your ability to understand my own motivations, intent and reasoning better than myself is astounding


[5/16/2020 5:36 PM] aceat64


{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/711346383847686254/Havens_Grand_Jury_Indictment_-_Copy.pdf?ex=67b8fff2&is=67b7ae72&hm=317daca354c0597a2d5969aa22425528bb8545a8114aa7d47b6e5a6ce8536d1c&


[5/16/2020 5:37 PM] aceat64
"A search of the location revealed 572.53g of Hashish Oil, 1,533.39g of marijuana, a Smith & Wesson 9mm pistol, a Taurus .22 caliber pistol, and several drug paraphernalia items."


[5/16/2020 5:38 PM] aceat64
The facts are pretty clear, the police stated they found 572.53g of hashish oil? Are you disputing that?


[5/16/2020 5:39 PM] aceat64
I asked someone who works in the legal industry the value of that much oil (though I said only 500g), they said about $10k. Are you disputing that assessment as being incorrect for the amount specified?


[5/16/2020 5:39 PM] michaelb5250
I'm enjoying this 😂

{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/711347132103393310/Capture.PNG?ex=67b900a4&is=67b7af24&hm=aba3e7c7916c8f8bd61df119e584014d3c45e4ae17780c09cd0116f0a96754fc&

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[5/16/2020 5:39 PM] aceat64
🤣


[5/16/2020 5:39 PM] michaelb5250
Andrew's gone crazy all talking to himself


[5/16/2020 5:40 PM] aceat64
I'll admit, the $10k is likely wrong. Since I gave an inaccurately low amount and the person gave me a "ballpark" figure. Though I think it's safe to say it's accurate within a reasonable bounds for the purpose of discussion.


[5/16/2020 5:41 PM] aceat64
@DJ Vance You stated authoritatively that it was "500g of Crisco", I assume you must have been present and witnessed it, or perhaps you have some other evidence to backup you claim?


[5/16/2020 5:45 PM] ferricyanide7475
Raffi.... Im pretty such when they said a welcare check. They meant to call and have someone go by your residence to make sure you are doing okay.


[5/16/2020 5:46 PM] ferricyanide7475
https://nationalpolicesupportfund.com/what-are-police-welfare-checks-2/

{Embed}
npsf
https://nationalpolicesupportfund.com/what-are-police-welfare-checks-2/
What are Police Welfare Checks? | National Police Support Fund
Welfare checks are made when concerned citizens fear for the safety of a loved one or neighbor whom they fear may be in mortal danger.
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/pVF9zygGsoE-eFxkS19oK-5aBzS5SDe0xZ3KtXcRuYk/https/nationalpolicesupportfund.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/What-Are-Police-Welfare-Checks.png


[5/16/2020 5:46 PM] aceat64
haha, ok so for fun I decided to see if I could figure out the "street price" of 1,533.39g of marijuana, and google was quite helpful, it came out to $10,400


[5/16/2020 5:47 PM] aceat64
roughly


[5/16/2020 5:47 PM] aceat64
https://coloradocannabistours.com/guides/weed-measurements-guide/

{Embed}
Austa Anderson
https://coloradocannabistours.com/guides/weed-measurements-guide/
Weed Measurements Guide: Marijuana Quantities, Weights & Prices
Marijuana is measured off an ounce. You can get marijuana in smaller amounts, one gram, an eighth, quarter, half-ounce, full zip & a QP. Learn more inside >
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/L08BQc7Qx45B7QV1O_lbN5DRR8TiJLrroS-eXyk20_U/https/coloradocannabistours.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/weed-measurements-weights.jpg


[5/16/2020 5:47 PM] aceat64
it claims $800 per quarter pound


[5/16/2020 5:47 PM] aceat64
I went with the lowest price per gram/pound on the page


[5/16/2020 5:48 PM] ferricyanide7475
Huh, its gone down since the last time i bought a 1/4 pound 😂


[5/16/2020 5:48 PM] aceat64
1533 grams = 3.379 lbs, 3.379 / 0.25 = 13.516 quarter pounds, 13 x 800 = $10,400


[5/16/2020 5:48 PM] aceat64
I rounded down to be safe


[5/16/2020 5:48 PM] aceat64
@DJ Vance are you more comfortable with this valuation?


[5/16/2020 5:50 PM] aceat64
that page also indicates that 1 gram is enough for a single joint, so the police are saying Mark Havens had 1,533 joints worth of weed. Now I'm not a pothead or any kind of drug expert, but that seems like a lot.


[5/16/2020 5:50 PM] ferricyanide7475


{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/711349873244373097/Screenshot_20200516-175005.png?ex=67b90332&is=67b7b1b2&hm=f31dd3e8269d34591eee6dcba73b8819c80f5b35d8f89a34c85e75d780929ed2&


[5/16/2020 5:51 PM] aceat64
lol so the low end price ($20/gram for wholesale) is..... $10k for 500g


[5/16/2020 5:52 PM] aceat64
so it was probably _at least_ $10k worth of drugs, which seems a bit more than "just some personal use pot brownies" or whatever the excuse was


[5/16/2020 5:53 PM] michaelb5250
To play devil's advocate, $20/gram includes process controls, taxes, and probably testing for label requirements.


[5/16/2020 5:54 PM] ferricyanide7475
Also since this is texas and was several years ago, i actually bet it was higher.


[5/16/2020 5:54 PM] aceat64
true, regional pricing probably varies a lot


[5/16/2020 5:55 PM] aceat64
here's a fun thought experiment, if someone said they had 90 bottles (750ml) of vodka "for personal use", would that seem reasonable?


[5/16/2020 5:55 PM] aceat64
1 shot in the us is ~44ml, so a 750ml bottle has ~17 shots in it


[5/16/2020 5:56 PM] aceat64
to have 1,533 shots (this is where things are fuzzy because I'm equating 1 joint to 1 shot), you'd need 90 bottles of vodka


[5/16/2020 5:57 PM] aceat64
you know, since Mark Havens (according to that police statement) had enough marijuana for 1,533 joints


[5/16/2020 5:57 PM] aceat64
:think: @DJ Vance any thoughts?


[5/16/2020 5:58 PM] aceat64
it's funny that trolls really prefer to debate on platforms they know they'll get censored (so they can claim it was because they were right and the man is keeping them down!), and not on uncensored platforms where people actually clap back


[5/16/2020 6:00 PM] aceat64
well this was fun, back to watching Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid because I'm a weeb


[5/16/2020 6:08 PM] canibalcrab
I believe his argument is based on "all cops are bad" and they considered any weight of pot butter that was being made as all pot regardless if ratio. Which is silly. Because who would spend the time making the butter that tastes worse to not have a reasonable thc content in it

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[5/16/2020 6:11 PM] michaelb5250
'all cops are bad' is probably the experience of someone carrying that much weed.


[5/16/2020 6:11 PM] aceat64
perhaps, but he seemed unable to articulate it so I just figured he was going with "blue hair man bad"


[5/16/2020 6:12 PM] aceat64
but jokes on y'all, my avatar is a lie


[5/16/2020 6:12 PM] ferricyanide7475
I personally don't have a problem of the possession, but i do have a problem with lying about it. Lying about it is also much more recent


[5/16/2020 6:12 PM] aceat64
my hair has faded to bleached blonde since I can't get it dyed currently lol


[5/16/2020 6:13 PM] michaelb5250
dying it yourself is an option 😛


[5/16/2020 6:13 PM] ferricyanide7475
and that is one of a handful of reasons i don't have colorful hair


[5/16/2020 6:13 PM] aceat64
right, the lying is basically a slap in the face, like we're all so dumb that we'd accept "it was just a small bit of personal use" when the amounts were so big


[5/16/2020 6:14 PM] aceat64
yeah no, I'm not going to dye my own hair, I've seen how people fuck it up


[5/16/2020 6:14 PM] aceat64
I'd rather be stuck looking like a surfer in Dallas


[5/16/2020 6:15 PM] michaelb5250
now's the perfect time to learn


[5/16/2020 6:15 PM] canibalcrab
I would agree with @ferricyanide. Don't care about possession. But the lies are telling


[5/16/2020 6:22 PM] yashsedai
@DJ Vance I was talking about the type of welfare check where police come check on you because you seem to be exhibiting signs of distress.


[5/16/2020 6:23 PM] yashsedai
Also, I understand that you operate in your little world of raffi but the rest of us don't adhere to your logic. That being said, you can cry about the "abuse of power" thing all that you want but you still just end up looking like a clown

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[5/16/2020 6:32 PM] quattroquattro
I am for legalization, but I am concerned about possession at that level. The reason is it shows he's dealing, not just consuming at a Willie Nelson level. We know he's listed the space as a business address, we know he's mailed packages from DMS. So we can't ever know if he was using DMS to deal. If however the cops ever find that he is then DMS is at risk.


[5/16/2020 6:34 PM] aceat64
don't forget Mark also started a non-profit and listed two members as directors for it _without their knowledge_ and listed DMS as the registered agent


[5/16/2020 6:34 PM] aceat64
again, without our knowledge or consent either


[5/16/2020 6:35 PM] aceat64
and when asked about it his response was "sue me"


[5/16/2020 6:35 PM] aceat64
so we had to file paperwork with the state to reject the registered agent thing


[5/16/2020 6:36 PM] aceat64
but hey, I'm sure him being an asshole was somehow all to benefit the space


[5/16/2020 6:37 PM] ferricyanide7475
Well i find all that other behavior concerning as well.


[5/16/2020 6:39 PM] andrew5152
how is it raffi saying it was crisco the first time I've heard that? (other than I don't really seek out this kind of crap...)


[5/16/2020 6:40 PM] aceat64
I think this might be the first time he's used the Crisco thing


[5/16/2020 6:40 PM] aceat64
before it was just "blue hair man dumb, doesn't know value of stuff" type arguments


[5/16/2020 6:40 PM] aceat64
and yeah, I don't know the value of that stuff, so I asked an expert 🤣


[5/16/2020 6:41 PM] andrew5152
but...does that mean raffi had to go to Mark to ask, and that's what he was told? 
Did he just pull it out of his...orifice?
😕


[5/16/2020 6:41 PM] aceat64
no, I'm sure he's got some very clearly reliable source


[5/16/2020 6:42 PM] aceat64
a man as smart as him wouldn't just blindly accept the story of someone without evidence


[5/16/2020 6:43 PM] andrew5152
I think I'm sensing sarcasm...


[5/16/2020 6:43 PM] andrew5152
😄


[5/16/2020 6:43 PM] aceat64
https://tenor.com/view/sarcasm-limit-speed-meter-gif-16275876

{Embed}
https://tenor.com/view/sarcasm-limit-speed-meter-gif-16275876
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/QUWAvmEEJdGG-ToCg8a5VrVpdi6Y4lIto8ZRx4GMyXM/https/media.tenor.co/images/98ff4183a26116bf263dad8c68b03f32/tenor.png

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[5/16/2020 7:11 PM] james_david_vance
This is my position: You don't know how much THC was in the oil, so you don't know how much it would sell for. 


I respect your intellect, Andrew. That's why I think you're not being honest.

He said it was Crisco, but whether it was Canola oil or something else isn't relevant to the price, just like all the discussion of other Mark-related stuff.


[5/16/2020 7:12 PM] aceat64
so how do you propose valuation be computed?

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[5/16/2020 7:12 PM] aceat64
you've yet to refute anything, as calling my argument "bullshit" is not a valid criticism


[5/16/2020 7:14 PM] aceat64
we've had multiple attempts made to quantify it and all converge around $10k


[5/16/2020 7:14 PM] aceat64
even if we're off by an order of magnitude, that's $1k, which seems quite excessive for just a brownie


[5/16/2020 7:14 PM] james_david_vance
I think one way to go would  be to see how they tested the oil. See how potent the oil has to be in order to come back positive. Then you'll have a lower bound on the concentration instead of comparing it to what your friend sells at a weed shop.


[5/16/2020 7:15 PM] james_david_vance
There is no need for assumption.


[5/16/2020 7:15 PM] aceat64
so your argument is that Mark made excessively weak oil?


[5/16/2020 7:15 PM] canibalcrab
I believe Texas is still zero tolerance on it. Or at least they were at the time. So concentration doesn't matter

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[5/16/2020 7:16 PM] canibalcrab
*very weak*


[5/16/2020 7:16 PM] james_david_vance
His claim was that he was in the middle of the process and had put an ounce in. Is your argument that that is false? If so, where's the evidence?


[5/16/2020 7:17 PM] aceat64
I posted the PDF


[5/16/2020 7:17 PM] aceat64
I went with the evidence the authorities provided


[5/16/2020 7:17 PM] james_david_vance
Oh really, I didn't see potency there.


[5/16/2020 7:17 PM] ferricyanide7475
Also was it cannabutter or hash oil? Those are different.


[5/16/2020 7:18 PM] aceat64
I can see you don't follow the logic here, so lets try another path


[5/16/2020 7:18 PM] james_david_vance
potency


[5/16/2020 7:18 PM] aceat64
how about the 1,533 grams?


[5/16/2020 7:18 PM] james_david_vance
That's my question: potency


[5/16/2020 7:18 PM] james_david_vance
Maybe he is a drug dealer, that doesn't contradict my claim.


[5/16/2020 7:18 PM] aceat64
the police found 1,533 grams of marijuna, which I assume is in plant form


[5/16/2020 7:18 PM] james_david_vance
My claim is more about you than it is about Mark.


[5/16/2020 7:19 PM] aceat64
a very low end estimate of it's value is again $10k


[5/16/2020 7:19 PM] aceat64
humorously enough


[5/16/2020 7:19 PM] james_david_vance
You're doing that base on 1-gram joints, right?


[5/16/2020 7:19 PM] aceat64
no, I stated above, that's in quarter-pound amounts


[5/16/2020 7:20 PM] aceat64
at the lowest price listed from the source


[5/16/2020 7:20 PM] aceat64
effectively the "bulk" price


[5/16/2020 7:20 PM] aceat64
the source page also stated that 1 gram = 1 joint, so the amount of weed was enough for 1,533 joints


[5/16/2020 7:20 PM] aceat64
which again, seems a bit more than "just personal use"


[5/16/2020 7:20 PM] canibalcrab
Shit if he had 1500 joints there's no way he wasn't selling


[5/16/2020 7:21 PM] ferricyanide7475
If you were selling it by the gram it would have been way more than 10k price evaluation. 10k is like wholesale


[5/16/2020 7:21 PM] aceat64
inb4 it was just ditch weed and not even smokable, it's all a conspiracy by evil forces


[5/16/2020 7:21 PM] ferricyanide7475
Hell if he had 1/4 pound its selling or a month supply for a heavy smoker


[5/16/2020 7:22 PM] aceat64
he had >3lbs


[5/16/2020 7:22 PM] aceat64
but hey, maybe that's all water weight, that's what I tell myself anytime the scale says I'm a bit heavier


[5/16/2020 7:24 PM] aceat64
@DJ Vance thoughts?


[5/16/2020 7:26 PM] anutterbutter
Can we agree he had alot.


[5/16/2020 7:26 PM] aceat64
@nutterbutter I think most of us agree on that lol


[5/16/2020 7:28 PM] andrew5152
just curious.... folks here seem really...um...against, I guess, selling. But how would we suppose recreational users (which many of us seem "ok" with) get such things without a "dealer"?
Is amazon shipping that now? In Texas? (I don't really keep up...)


[5/16/2020 7:29 PM] aceat64
@A. Spencer(jast) it's really all about how Mark tried to spin it as "just a brownie" in his SOI


[5/16/2020 7:29 PM] michaelb5250
I mean, you can order anything on the internet, right?


[5/16/2020 7:29 PM] james_david_vance
pearce, that's assuming 1 gram per joint


[5/16/2020 7:29 PM] aceat64
> In 2015, after my ex-wife reported that I was in possession of marijuana, I was formally charged for attempting to make pot brownies.


[5/16/2020 7:30 PM] aceat64
https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/2020_Statement_of_Intent_Mark_Havens#Full_Disclosure

{Embed}
https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/2020_Statement_of_Intent_Mark_Havens
2020 Statement of Intent Mark Havens


[5/16/2020 7:30 PM] james_david_vance
Yeah clearly he's being serious


[5/16/2020 7:30 PM] james_david_vance
Clearly he's claiming there is a law specifically about making pot brownies


[5/16/2020 7:30 PM] andrew5152
so you think that was a joke?


[5/16/2020 7:30 PM] james_david_vance
We can have a conversation about Mark's character in general, but my claim about the oil remains.


[5/16/2020 7:31 PM] andrew5152
because I didn't.


[5/16/2020 7:31 PM] james_david_vance
yes I think it was a joke


[5/16/2020 7:31 PM] andrew5152
nothing in that SOI was a joke


[5/16/2020 7:31 PM] andrew5152
except the SOI itself, I guess.


[5/16/2020 7:31 PM] james_david_vance
okay, we'll lets get off topic about it


[5/16/2020 7:31 PM] aceat64
so you're saying that parts of his SOI were not in good faith?


[5/16/2020 7:31 PM] james_david_vance
No potency, no price.


[5/16/2020 7:31 PM] andrew5152
which makes it easy to discount anything IN it, and him as a candidate. Next topic.


[5/16/2020 7:31 PM] james_david_vance
You can joke in good faith


[5/16/2020 7:32 PM] aceat64
about being arrested for larges amounts of drugs, while running for board of DMS


[5/16/2020 7:32 PM] aceat64
sure


[5/16/2020 7:32 PM] aceat64
sure


[5/16/2020 7:32 PM] james_david_vance
Also he did a plea deal


[5/16/2020 7:32 PM] james_david_vance
intent to distribute was dropped


[5/16/2020 7:32 PM] aceat64
So Mark told you it was just an ounce in the oil, but what about the 1,533 grams?


[5/16/2020 7:32 PM] james_david_vance
Please ask me for proof


[5/16/2020 7:34 PM] james_david_vance
1,533 grams is a lot of weed


[5/16/2020 7:35 PM] james_david_vance
enough for a long time


[5/16/2020 7:35 PM] james_david_vance
Maybe more than enough


[5/16/2020 7:35 PM] james_david_vance
And that's assuming no stems


[5/16/2020 7:36 PM] james_david_vance
but what about the potency of the oil? How can you calculate the price without potency?


[5/16/2020 7:37 PM] aceat64
I feel I was pretty clear on how you do that, I can explain it again to you, but I can't comprehend it for you


[5/16/2020 7:40 PM] james_david_vance
I'm talking about the oil, so this "1533 grams = 3.379 lbs, 3.379 / 0.25 = 13.516 quarter pounds, 13 x 800 = $10,400" isn't relevant


[5/16/2020 7:41 PM] aceat64
yes, I can see you are confused on this


[5/16/2020 7:41 PM] aceat64
see, we're talking about Mark's character, and how his SOI and his statements to you and others were crafted to paint a picture of a dude who had a small amount of weed for personal use


[5/16/2020 7:42 PM] aceat64
and how that's clearly a lie


[5/16/2020 7:42 PM] anutterbutter
I'd like to see a brownie that big.

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[5/16/2020 7:42 PM] canibalcrab
Its the size of a mattress


[5/16/2020 7:43 PM] canibalcrab
https://media.tenor.com/images/f69a835be7ebf04eed8553f9bb28bfc2/tenor.gif

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[5/16/2020 7:43 PM] ferricyanide7475
Also i am a bit confused.... you typically don't make brownies with hash oil. You usually use the plant to make "butter" then brownies


[5/16/2020 7:43 PM] ferricyanide7475
So were the police wrong or is he lying about making brownies altogether?

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[5/16/2020 7:44 PM] james_david_vance
I believe legally any oil with thc was at that time considered hash oil


[5/16/2020 7:44 PM] james_david_vance
I don't think they break it down into like canola oil, Crisco, salted butter, unsalted butter, etc


[5/16/2020 7:45 PM] ferricyanide7475
Crisco and all that would be "butter"


[5/16/2020 7:45 PM] james_david_vance
Okay let's speculate


[5/16/2020 7:45 PM] ferricyanide7475
Hash oil is prepared completely different


[5/16/2020 7:45 PM] james_david_vance
Andrew, I think your pricing for the weed is reasonable


[5/16/2020 7:46 PM] james_david_vance
not the oil


[5/16/2020 7:47 PM] canibalcrab
Okay even ignoring the oil then, he lied about it on his soi. You are just moving to goal posts


[5/16/2020 7:48 PM] james_david_vance
"the period of community supervision has expired and the Court has not proceeded to an adjudication of guilt in this cause"

https://obpublicaccess.dallascounty.org/PublicAccessEP1/CriminalCourts/PublicAccessProvider.ashx?action=ViewDocument&overlay=Print&overrideFormat=PDF


[5/16/2020 7:48 PM] aceat64
500g (by weight) of vegetable oil is about 0.422 gallons (0.125 lbs per gallon times 3.379 lbs), that's 6.7 cups of oil, a standard brownie recipe seems to call for 1/2 cup of oil, so that's enough for 13 batches of brownies, but Mark _only put in an ounce of weed_


[5/16/2020 7:48 PM] canibalcrab
Maybe he's bad at recipes


[5/16/2020 7:48 PM] james_david_vance
My point was about the oil, not his SOI in general.


[5/16/2020 7:49 PM] aceat64
so your claim is that he makes nearly useless pot brownies, and don't worry about the unrelated large amount of weed


[5/16/2020 7:49 PM] canibalcrab
Dani tried to add a tablespoon of salt to one of our dinners because she read teaspoon wrong


[5/16/2020 7:49 PM] aceat64
Mark lied to your face man


[5/16/2020 7:49 PM] aceat64
if he told you it was just an ounce, and that it was personal, that was a lie


[5/16/2020 7:49 PM] michaelb5250
I mean I doubt people making pot brownies are going for that gourmet brownie experience, oil vs butter probably isn't a concern.

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[5/16/2020 7:50 PM] james_david_vance
My claim is that he was using the oil to store the weed without having it lose its potency. You have no evidence that that's false. All you have are your biases caused by your negative emotions toward him from previous stuff that I really know nothing about. And I don't really care since it doesn't tell me how much the oil would see for.


[5/16/2020 7:50 PM] aceat64
do you honestly believe that the 500g was mostly oil and have very little weed in it?


[5/16/2020 7:51 PM] canibalcrab
That's a whole new argument


[5/16/2020 7:51 PM] yashsedai
lol you arent helping mark here raffi...


[5/16/2020 7:51 PM] canibalcrab
*but the oil!*


[5/16/2020 7:51 PM] james_david_vance
I'm not trying to help Mark


[5/16/2020 7:52 PM] aceat64
> My claim is that he was using the oil to store the weed without having it lose its potency. You have no evidence that that's false.
@DJ Vance that's not how this works, you have yet to present a more plausible argument than the ones laid out before you


[5/16/2020 7:52 PM] james_david_vance
Yes, exactly, Pearce


[5/16/2020 7:52 PM] yashsedai
hrm...


[5/16/2020 7:52 PM] james_david_vance
My point is that we don't know. You're the one making the concrete claim that the oil was worth 10 grand.


[5/16/2020 7:53 PM] canibalcrab
:palmface:


[5/16/2020 7:53 PM] aceat64
ok, so to be clear, you don't like my or anyone else making a guess at the valuation of the oil, but the valuations for the weed itself are reasonable?


[5/16/2020 7:53 PM] yashsedai
occams razor bro...


[5/16/2020 7:54 PM] james_david_vance
The percent THC in the weed is more or less known. In the oil it isn't. Simple


[5/16/2020 7:54 PM] yashsedai
LOOLOL


[5/16/2020 7:54 PM] aceat64
ok cool, so we can all accept that he probably had somewhere in the neighborhood of say $10k in weed?


[5/16/2020 7:54 PM] yashsedai
ohrly?


[5/16/2020 7:54 PM] aceat64
@DJ Vance does that sound like a fair assessment of the amount?


[5/16/2020 7:55 PM] james_david_vance
Yes.


[5/16/2020 7:55 PM] aceat64
excellent


[5/16/2020 7:55 PM] james_david_vance
My claim is was about the weed,


[5/16/2020 7:55 PM] james_david_vance
*the oil lol


[5/16/2020 7:55 PM] james_david_vance
inb4 Freudian slip


[5/16/2020 7:56 PM] aceat64
ok, so knowing that he had such a large amount, which scenario is most likely:
1. Mark had a very small amount of THC in the oil and was making brownies for personal consumption
2. Mark was making a lot of brownies


[5/16/2020 7:56 PM] aceat64
(very very weak brownies)


[5/16/2020 7:56 PM] james_david_vance
Those are not the only options, so I won't entertain the question.


[5/16/2020 7:56 PM] quattroquattro
@DJ Vance why the fuck does the potency matter? Even if it's shitty butter he had dealer quantity in his possession. That's like saying, sure he stole the car but he didn't drive it that far.


[5/16/2020 7:57 PM] james_david_vance
I think there is overlap in dealer quantity and personal use quantity.


[5/16/2020 7:57 PM] aceat64
@DJ Vance I'll restate it this way, do you feel it's fair for Mark to portray the arrest and case as "just personal use" or similarly downplaying at the amounts?


[5/16/2020 7:57 PM] yashsedai
raffi do you have first hand knowledge of the quantity or potency of what mark had?


[5/16/2020 7:58 PM] james_david_vance
Given that the intent to distribute part was dropped, I think it's reasonable to say that the case was for personal use.


[5/16/2020 7:58 PM] aceat64
it could have been dropped because he gave up his supplier though


[5/16/2020 7:58 PM] quattroquattro
Willie Nelson was busted with his personal stash out on I-10 once. He had a pound. Are you honestly saying that Havens has a personal stash bigger than Willie Nelson


[5/16/2020 7:59 PM] aceat64
you have no evidence that's not the case


[5/16/2020 7:59 PM] quattroquattro
Or he plead out for a lesser charge


[5/16/2020 7:59 PM] james_david_vance
Correct


[5/16/2020 7:59 PM] aceat64
so since we can't know the specifics of why the case was dropped, it can't be used to determine if the amount was personal or dealing


[5/16/2020 7:59 PM] quattroquattro
People plead out to lesser charges all the time


[5/16/2020 8:00 PM] james_david_vance
Correct


[5/16/2020 8:00 PM] aceat64
the only objective metric we have, is the actual amounts of material, both the weed and the oil


[5/16/2020 8:00 PM] quattroquattro
And the conviction, we have that too


[5/16/2020 8:00 PM] james_david_vance
Yup, but also that amount changed as the case went on.


[5/16/2020 8:00 PM] aceat64
based on the amount of weed alone, would you say it's reasonable to call that "personal amounts"


[5/16/2020 8:01 PM] quattroquattro
You are talking out your ass


[5/16/2020 8:01 PM] quattroquattro
He's a convicted felon drug dealer


[5/16/2020 8:01 PM] quattroquattro
And a known fraudster


[5/16/2020 8:03 PM] quattroquattro
https://youtu.be/o-jXtz6aXZk

{Embed}
aFilmNoob
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-jXtz6aXZk
2 POUND JOINT - 4:20, 4/20 420, 2013 -  Golden Gate Park, Hippie Hi...
This is 2013 at Golden Gate Park for the annual 4:20 day gathering, Hippie Hill. Look at the size of this JOINT!!!
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/cy5AIqb-I9zfhsZNac-vtxi6nmBwLRKbXGKAxbnMgKo/https/i.ytimg.com/vi/o-jXtz6aXZk/sddefault.jpg


[5/16/2020 8:03 PM] james_david_vance
oh okay


[5/16/2020 8:04 PM] quattroquattro
That's a 2 pound joint. Mark had an extra pound


[5/16/2020 8:04 PM] aceat64
oh so Mark only had less than 2 joints worth

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[5/16/2020 8:04 PM] quattroquattro
But sure, it was personal use...


[5/16/2020 8:04 PM] james_david_vance
lol


[5/16/2020 8:05 PM] james_david_vance
Here it says POSS CS PG 1 < 1G. That stands for possession of a controlled substance in the penalty group one in an amount less than one gram.

{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/711383967978356776/3-4-2019_-_Order_-_Dismiss-Discharge_Probation_-_Crim_Min_DC_F1533155_-_.pdf?ex=67b922f2&is=67b7d172&hm=e6a880a963e229afc0c3f71e5651f21074f36c71bffe0ac193c89ed597f0bb9a&


[5/16/2020 8:05 PM] quattroquattro
Why the fuck are you defending his possession conviction by splitting hairs over if the hash oil would just make you a little high or really high?


[5/16/2020 8:06 PM] james_david_vance
I'm more attacking bullshit arguments than defending him as a person


[5/16/2020 8:07 PM] quattroquattro
It's ok officer I know she's a hooker, buy I didn't fuck her I only got a blowjob


[5/16/2020 8:07 PM] yashsedai
LOL


[5/16/2020 8:07 PM] quattroquattro
It's ok officer I stole the car but I wasn't speeding so it's all good


[5/16/2020 8:07 PM] aceat64
@DJ Vance if it makes you feel any better, I'll amend my statement to "Mark had $10k worth of weed" instead of hashoil


[5/16/2020 8:08 PM] james_david_vance
That's what the fuck I'm doing. Why the fuck I'm doing it is because it bothers me to see a whole group think together and think poorly in a context where reasonable discussion is very important like the context of an election.


[5/16/2020 8:08 PM] quattroquattro
It's ok officer I just put the coke on the mirror, I haven't snorted all the lines


[5/16/2020 8:08 PM] nullinterface
this parsing is hilarious


[5/16/2020 8:08 PM] james_david_vance
Andrew, yeah, if you down from 20K to 10K i think that's great.


[5/16/2020 8:09 PM] quattroquattro
It's ok officer I robbed that store but I only stole 10k not 20k so we're good


[5/16/2020 8:09 PM] james_david_vance
But really it's more like "at least 10K" if you include the oil


[5/16/2020 8:09 PM] nullinterface
"we don't have an assay so we can't use median values to make an estimate"


[5/16/2020 8:10 PM] aceat64
@DJ Vance great news, that's what I already said and which you've been railing against


[5/16/2020 8:10 PM] quattroquattro
Remember, his arrest was before weed was legal anywhere so the value was likely much higher then


[5/16/2020 8:10 PM] aceat64
https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/mark-haven-statement-of-intent-bod-2020-2021/70313/52?u=andrewlecody


[5/16/2020 8:10 PM] james_david_vance
And I think 3.3 pounds of weed is a lot, but very possibly for personal consumption, especially if you're consuming it with someone else who smokes a lot


[5/16/2020 8:10 PM] aceat64
so you've been calling out my "bullshit argument" but were wrong about it the entire time


[5/16/2020 8:11 PM] aceat64
because I never said $10k worth of oil, I said oil and weed


[5/16/2020 8:11 PM] james_david_vance
Nah, you said 10K for the oil. That's bullshit


[5/16/2020 8:11 PM] aceat64
are you not reading the link I just posted?


[5/16/2020 8:11 PM] aceat64
you can see for yourself the post wasn't edited and is from March


[5/16/2020 8:11 PM] james_david_vance
I can't, but you even on here said you asked your friend specifically about the oil


[5/16/2020 8:11 PM] quattroquattro
@DJ Vance it seems your argument is bullshit. The potency of the weed doesn't matter and the quantity is clearly greater than personal use


[5/16/2020 8:11 PM] aceat64
perhaps, but you started railing against my "bullshit argument" based on that post


[5/16/2020 8:11 PM] yashsedai
Raffi, I think its hilarious that you believe yourself to be qualified enough to call anyone's arguement bullshit.


[5/16/2020 8:12 PM] james_david_vance
It's the potency of the oil that matters

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[5/16/2020 8:12 PM] aceat64
https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/mark-haven-statement-of-intent-bod-2020-2021/70313/58?u=andrewlecody


[5/16/2020 8:12 PM] aceat64
see, right here, just after my post


[5/16/2020 8:13 PM] aceat64
my post is very clear, that the oil _and weed_ are at least $10k


[5/16/2020 8:13 PM] james_david_vance
the validity of what I say does not depend on any qualification of mine, Freddy, that's an ad hom fallacy.

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[5/16/2020 8:13 PM] quattroquattro
@DJ Vance if potency matters then why didn't marks lawyer get him off everything because it was just skunk weed

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[5/16/2020 8:13 PM] aceat64
and you took offense to that statement, but now you're trying to say I said something I didn't and that you are taking offense to a statement you _think_ I made back in that thread


[5/16/2020 8:13 PM] james_david_vance
Welp I can't go through on Talk to see where you said the oil alone was 10K, so...


[5/16/2020 8:13 PM] james_david_vance
hahah


[5/16/2020 8:14 PM] aceat64
I never said on talk the oil alone was $10k


[5/16/2020 8:14 PM] quattroquattro
@DJ Vance having skunk weed isn't a defense in any court of law. The potency doesn't fucking matter

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[5/16/2020 8:14 PM] aceat64
the proof is right there in the linked thread


[5/16/2020 8:14 PM] yashsedai
he can't logon talk


[5/16/2020 8:14 PM] yashsedai
he got in trouble 🙂


[5/16/2020 8:14 PM] aceat64
ah, I'll screenshot it


[5/16/2020 8:14 PM] quattroquattro
I think I understand what's happening here! Raffi got a hold of some potent weed.. that's the only way his argument makes sense


[5/16/2020 8:15 PM] aceat64


{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/711386274279194645/mark_weed_value.PNG?ex=67b92518&is=67b7d398&hm=a934116501ac7bc03b8e46f46b9b65bc9c9325cf86438bbfe9bbfe44d8891bee&


[5/16/2020 8:15 PM] yashsedai
I think Raffi might have smoked to much weed in general cause it sure doesn't seem to have helped his reasoning skills


[5/16/2020 8:15 PM] aceat64
@DJ Vance you then said:

{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/711386453782822963/mark_weed_value2.PNG?ex=67b92543&is=67b7d3c3&hm=b8be838ba8ed9e73932ad292341868d9b743579517f1584c2a6ea89a411f153e&


[5/16/2020 8:15 PM] yashsedai
Or Mark was/is his dealer and he feels the need to defend him


[5/16/2020 8:16 PM] aceat64


{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/711386687988564038/mark_weed_value3.PNG?ex=67b9257b&is=67b7d3fb&hm=68e0c595eecb42b961c6ec31326ae7c4e63acfa21a7401d019d10db6f5419efb&


[5/16/2020 8:17 PM] aceat64


{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/711386844318662726/mark_weed_value4.PNG?ex=67b925a0&is=67b7d420&hm=d4a39ef4bb194cb2a9e64a0ee83df704f5fc39d202a6c4d5e3d27e14f4ff47b5&


[5/16/2020 8:17 PM] aceat64
weird how we went from "agree[ing] on the facts" to "bullshit argument"


[5/16/2020 8:17 PM] james_david_vance
I can't find where you said it on Talk, but you literally said it earlier here on Discord.


[5/16/2020 8:17 PM] james_david_vance
I can't log in to Talk


[5/16/2020 8:17 PM] aceat64
yes, I believe the oil was worth $10k and the weed another $10k


[5/16/2020 8:18 PM] james_david_vance
Because you know, I'm suspended


[5/16/2020 8:18 PM] aceat64
my statements on talk clearly state that the oil and weed were worth $10k at minimum


[5/16/2020 8:18 PM] james_david_vance
Oh okay, so you did say the oil was worth 10K


[5/16/2020 8:18 PM] quattroquattro
@DJ Vance what did you pay for your hash oil?


[5/16/2020 8:18 PM] james_david_vance
That's what's bullshit


[5/16/2020 8:18 PM] yashsedai
how would you know raffi?


[5/16/2020 8:18 PM] aceat64
man this is some great mental gymnastics to watch


[5/16/2020 8:19 PM] yashsedai
how can you say that something is or isn't anything?


[5/16/2020 8:19 PM] quattroquattro
Is it green hornet or purple haze?


[5/16/2020 8:19 PM] yashsedai
you buy hash oil regularly since this case came to be?


[5/16/2020 8:19 PM] james_david_vance
Like this: that claim is bullshit


[5/16/2020 8:19 PM] aceat64
@DJ Vance you said "Mark claims the oil and weed were for brownies for personal consumption." do you believe that was a lie?


[5/16/2020 8:19 PM] yashsedai
from mark's dealer?


[5/16/2020 8:19 PM] yashsedai
Raffi your logic is bullshit


[5/16/2020 8:19 PM] yashsedai
see i can do it too


[5/16/2020 8:19 PM] james_david_vance
Oh okay


[5/16/2020 8:20 PM] quattroquattro
I'm guessing green hornet based on the complete disconnection from logic

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[5/16/2020 8:20 PM] yashsedai
lol


[5/16/2020 8:21 PM] yashsedai
i have to agree the mental gymnastics are quite special


[5/16/2020 8:21 PM] james_david_vance
Andrew I do believe Mark's claim, but it's not a strong belief.

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[5/16/2020 8:21 PM] aceat64
ok, so again to be clear


[5/16/2020 8:21 PM] james_david_vance
Like if I had decent evidence to the contrary I'd probably change my belief.


[5/16/2020 8:21 PM] aceat64
you agree the weed is worth maybe $10k (give or take), and that it was also for personal consumption?


[5/16/2020 8:21 PM] james_david_vance
Yes


[5/16/2020 8:22 PM] aceat64
ok cool


[5/16/2020 8:22 PM] aceat64
good to know you lack the ability to reason effectively


[5/16/2020 8:22 PM] james_david_vance
oh okay

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[5/16/2020 8:22 PM] quattroquattro
I revise my statement, I'm guessing grape ape


[5/16/2020 8:22 PM] quattroquattro
https://www.maggiesfarmmarijuana.com/manitou-springs-rec-menu/

{Embed}
https://www.maggiesfarmmarijuana.com/manitou-springs-rec-menu/
Manitou Springs Rec - Order for Pickup - Maggies Farm Marijuana
Maggie's Farm Manitou Springs, CO recreational marijuana flower, concentrates, edibles, topicals. Order online, pay in store. Clean Green organic outdoor grown marijuana in Colorado.


[5/16/2020 8:23 PM] james_david_vance
Glad we can agree the 10k valuation was baseless bullshit


[5/16/2020 8:23 PM] aceat64
I imagine even in oil weed loses potency and effectiveness, so unless there's some way to store $10k of weed long enough for one person (or say one person and their spouse) to consume it before it goes bad, it would be a horrendous waste of money to buy $10k worth of weed


[5/16/2020 8:24 PM] aceat64
so either Mark had $10k to absolutely just throw in the trash, or something else was going on


[5/16/2020 8:24 PM] quattroquattro
Well, Maggie's farm is getting$70 for 1g of grape ape, so $70x500


[5/16/2020 8:24 PM] james_david_vance
Well I don't find imagination on that front even remotely useful


[5/16/2020 8:25 PM] aceat64
can you think of a reason why someone would have $10k worth of weed for personal use and it not mostly go to waste?


[5/16/2020 8:25 PM] quattroquattro
Of course blue rax is only$60 but it's hybrid


[5/16/2020 8:25 PM] james_david_vance
Maybe the person got tired of buying and decided to grow?


[5/16/2020 8:26 PM] aceat64
now I'm not a plant expert, but usually you use seeds for that


[5/16/2020 8:26 PM] james_david_vance
I have a cousin in California who grows for personal use


[5/16/2020 8:26 PM] yashsedai
@aceat64 obviously cause he was giving some to raffi!


[5/16/2020 8:26 PM] james_david_vance
hahaha


[5/16/2020 8:26 PM] aceat64
perhaps it was all seeds!


[5/16/2020 8:26 PM] james_david_vance
I moved to Texas in January 2019 so


[5/16/2020 8:26 PM] james_david_vance
lol


[5/16/2020 8:26 PM] james_david_vance
perhaps he was dealing!


[5/16/2020 8:26 PM] yashsedai
but you couldn have known him before...


[5/16/2020 8:26 PM] james_david_vance
perhaps


[5/16/2020 8:27 PM] james_david_vance
lol


[5/16/2020 8:27 PM] james_david_vance
Perhaps!


[5/16/2020 8:27 PM] james_david_vance
Perhaps he was a druglord, using his pistol for drug dealy stuff!


[5/16/2020 8:27 PM] aceat64
of course, that would be a lot of seeds, you'd be growing a lot of plants


[5/16/2020 8:28 PM] james_david_vance
Perhaps a heavy smoker puts 1 gram in a joint!


[5/16/2020 8:28 PM] yashsedai
everyone knows you gotta have protection brah


[5/16/2020 8:28 PM] james_david_vance
Freddy I'm not surprised


[5/16/2020 8:28 PM] aceat64
ah yes, perhaps Mark was just constantly stoned


[5/16/2020 8:28 PM] aceat64
that's something we want in a person in charge of DMS, for them to be not-sober while at the space


[5/16/2020 8:29 PM] quattroquattro
@DJ Vance why do you believe that Havens is the victim here?


[5/16/2020 8:29 PM] james_david_vance
stfu I'm not defending Mark


[5/16/2020 8:29 PM] aceat64
I believe he has an irrational hatred of some people at DMS


[5/16/2020 8:30 PM] james_david_vance
Could be, perhaps


[5/16/2020 8:30 PM] aceat64
well this has been a fun exercise


[5/16/2020 8:30 PM] james_david_vance
I think it's more like I have a rational hatred for irrational arguments


[5/16/2020 8:30 PM] quattroquattro
@DJ Vance  if you are not defending him then why are you splitting hairs about how high you could get off his product


[5/16/2020 8:31 PM] aceat64
if only you were better equipped for discerning irrational from rational


[5/16/2020 8:31 PM] aceat64
you could be quite effective at changing minds then


[5/16/2020 8:31 PM] james_david_vance
"no u"


[5/16/2020 8:32 PM] aceat64
insults are more fun when they're higher brow


[5/16/2020 8:32 PM] aceat64
although I do love using bless your heart on people who don't know that one 🙂


[5/16/2020 8:32 PM] yashsedai
haha


[5/16/2020 8:32 PM] james_david_vance
I actually don't think this conversation was useless


[5/16/2020 8:33 PM] aceat64
we use it all the time at Wasteland Weekend, have heard people say "The Texans are so nice, they're always telling us 'bless your heart'"


[5/16/2020 8:33 PM] james_david_vance
I think we figured out exactly where we disagree: whether 3.3 lbs can be for personal use.


[5/16/2020 8:34 PM] aceat64
oh cool, good to see you have caught up with the convo


[5/16/2020 8:34 PM] james_david_vance
oh okay


[5/16/2020 8:34 PM] aceat64
but we're on bless your heart now


[5/16/2020 8:34 PM] james_david_vance
Oh did you change it midstream?


[5/16/2020 8:34 PM] james_david_vance
my b


[5/16/2020 8:34 PM] yashsedai
I think we really just further confirmedthat you lack the ability to discern rational from irrational and that you might get your weed/weed products from mark 🙂


[5/16/2020 8:34 PM] james_david_vance
weird, I've heard that somewhere before


[5/16/2020 8:34 PM] aceat64
there was a TV commercial that used it


[5/16/2020 8:35 PM] aceat64
very popular


[5/16/2020 8:35 PM] aceat64
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fDkHzOtgrk

{Embed}
Hms Videos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fDkHzOtgrk
HMS Commercial - Bless Your Heart
Bless Your Heart
Home Marketing Services
Bob Lovell
Commercial
2015 - 031
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/c7tNlUDSLBBSYHvBRk1IhtDSfXDb_IgJi1o1HVbbPdE/https/i.ytimg.com/vi/9fDkHzOtgrk/maxresdefault.jpg


[5/16/2020 8:36 PM] quattroquattro
Willie Nelson recorded a song with snoop dog called roll me up and smoke me when I die. When Willie was busted out in South Texas he had less on him than Mark... Let's think about that for a moment here


[5/16/2020 8:42 PM] kentamanos
https://external-preview.redd.it/O8pLVKdC8GBCq0I0UoWrMD8HPOFiHOtarlWw-XzOy-0.jpg?auto=webp&s=44d416803f274883d3bedeb39300a948b3dd745c

{Embed}
https://external-preview.redd.it/O8pLVKdC8GBCq0I0UoWrMD8HPOFiHOtarlWw-XzOy-0.jpg?auto=webp&s=44d416803f274883d3bedeb39300a948b3dd745c
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/4VNn9n2hiRh7fTGYxdh848kZPtr2WhdxKwxEMUub_XA/%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D44d416803f274883d3bedeb39300a948b3dd745c/https/external-preview.redd.it/O8pLVKdC8GBCq0I0UoWrMD8HPOFiHOtarlWw-XzOy-0.jpg

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[5/16/2020 8:44 PM] anutterbutter
Mark Havens isn't my favorite candidate, I'd rather vote for Raffi.

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[5/16/2020 8:47 PM] ferricyanide7475
> Mark Havens isn't my favorite candidate, I'd rather vote for Raffi.
@nutterbutter


[5/16/2020 8:47 PM] ferricyanide7475
That bad?


[5/16/2020 9:30 PM] mark.randall
Andrew, you’ve really blossomed into quite a narcissistic prince of deniability and lies. I suppose I expected that you would develop a reputation for turning on people and for perpetuating a culture of hate mongering. My impulse is to blame your adolescent leadership experience as a CEO in Eve Online, except everybody know DMS isn’t a video game. No, it’s all my fault, I suppose. I set a really poor example for you while I was fighting with members of the DPRG in 2010. I never thought you’d follow in my footsteps to the ends of glorifying the darkest part of my leadership style from back then. Now, it’s 2020, and you’re blackmailing, intimidating, and suing people, just like I did whenever I let my ego lead my decision making instead of my conscience.


[5/16/2020 9:30 PM] mark.randall
Now here we are. You’ve passed around an inditement like it’s a judgement, knowing full well that there’s court papers that reduced and then dismissed all charges. I grew weed as a hobby in 2012 and 2013. Cops found bud, leaves, stems, and seeds in 2015. Most of what was found wasn’t smokable, but granted, we had enough pot to keep a wife and me stocked up for a while without needing or even knowing a dealer. And the bottle of Crisco they found that I would make brownies with? I used an ounce of weed to make it. Sorry to disappoint you. But, as much as you’d love to label me some sort of dangerous drug dealer to satisfy that chip on your shoulder and keep me off the board, it’s not going to happen. You are now embarrassing yourself. You certainly know my hydroponic and aquaponic background. My libertarian views and experiences with pot haven’t been a secret since I was 19. But now that I’m running for Board, you’ve suddenly decided that I’m a drug dealer? Honestly? Earnestly? After trying to manipulate me on this issue, presumably to keep me from running? I ran BECAUSE you tried to manipulate me, dude. I ran and outed my own pot history BECAUSE you made your petty intentions pretty clear when you PMed me in January. And everyone I trusted outside your little circle already had the whole story long before I decided to run. The WHOLE story has never been a secret. You know I’m not known for keeping secrets. Not even from you. None of the nonsense that you ever spout off about me has ever fit the greater context of reality. And it’s pretty clear to me and a great multitude of others that you are being a mean, petty, manipulative, and self-serving child.


[5/16/2020 9:30 PM] mark.randall
You have set an example for others that rewards contempt, deception, half-truths, and FUD. And you have come to despise me and spread poison because you feel you deserve to be founder of Dallas Makerspace. Son, maybe I was in denial when we first met, or maybe I just didn’t have a whole lot to work with in terms of willing leadership, but I remember sometime in 2011 or 2012, as soon as I heard you speak to your leadership motivations about Dallas Makerspace, and how you wanted to be the next Napoleon or the next Caesar, I felt you and I had a serious mismatch of values. My values are focused on others, not the self glorification of accomplishments. It’s about achieving goals for the community, not to satisfy my own ego. I should have dropped you sooner. But that’s why I began mentoring Robert Davidson and stopped spending time with you. There might still be hope for Robert, but you son are a lost cause, and I think you already know it. At your age, if Eve Online and Dallas Makerspace have been your only notable leadership venues in life, then I think that says it all.


[5/16/2020 9:31 PM] mark.randall
All this said, when the time comes, if we are ever forced to work together again, I will be true to my word. I will forgive and forget your past character assignations against me. But you need to work on your eye contact. Avoiding eye contact often communicates feelings of shame. If you are ashamed to look me in the eye, you won’t have to be if I’m elected. But just because I forgive and forget your past transgressions against me doesn’t mean I have no memory of your values or abilities. You will never be my first choice for any leadership role beyond a technical team lead. We need good technical team leads. And you are probably one of the top 20 team leads I know. Hell, look what you did for Dallas Makerspace. Good work during those first few years. Thank you. I just wish you could have grown with the organization.


[5/16/2020 9:34 PM] aceat64
lol Mark I don't know who you think you remember, but it ain't me


[5/16/2020 9:35 PM] mark.randall
I think you know that’s not true.


[5/16/2020 9:35 PM] yashsedai
Mark, it makes a great story. Albeit a not very believable one.


[5/16/2020 9:36 PM] mark.randall
Freddy, I have nothing to prove. Certainly not to you.


[5/16/2020 9:37 PM] agr0090
Is the board of directors campaign still going? When are elections?


[5/16/2020 9:37 PM] yashsedai
You don't need to prove anything to me, but you could at least come up with something better than that. People who haven't observed you don't know what you are...


[5/16/2020 9:37 PM] aceat64
I have to admit, on one hand it's an interesting experience being the subject of these weird conspiracy theories, but it's also a bit concerning


[5/16/2020 9:38 PM] yashsedai
@aceat64 I think you should take it as a compliment. You are a threat to him.


[5/16/2020 9:39 PM] aceat64
lol


[5/16/2020 9:39 PM] michaelb5250
@AGr From Erik on talk: "EDIT 3: I have suspended the entirety of the election timeline. I will reschedule it once we have clarity from state and local officials on when and how we might re-open the Makerspace."


[5/16/2020 9:39 PM] mark.randall
Andrew is spouting misinformation. He is certainly a threat to my reputation. And he’s been somewhat successful with you, Freddy, for sure.


[5/16/2020 9:39 PM] yashsedai
Mark, who do you think searched up the documents...


[5/16/2020 9:39 PM] yashsedai
It sure wasn't Andrew...


[5/16/2020 9:39 PM] yashsedai
Nice try though.


[5/16/2020 9:40 PM] mark.randall
LoL... doesn’t matter.


[5/16/2020 9:40 PM] aceat64
what exactly was misinformation?


[5/16/2020 9:40 PM] mark.randall
Documents are public record.


[5/16/2020 9:40 PM] aceat64
I just played through a thought experiment on the valuation of the drugs in that document of your arrest


[5/16/2020 9:41 PM] aceat64
big fan of /r/theydidthemath/


[5/16/2020 9:41 PM] mark.randall
Indeed. Must have been a fun fantasy for you, Andrew.


[5/16/2020 9:41 PM] aceat64
it was pretty fun


[5/16/2020 9:41 PM] yashsedai
I think any rational individual can agree that having a stoner as a board member who got popped with distribution weight ain't what anyone is on board with


[5/16/2020 9:42 PM] yashsedai
I made a funny hahaha


[5/16/2020 9:42 PM] mark.randall
Except that is a false narrative, Freddy.


[5/16/2020 9:42 PM] yashsedai
Is it?


[5/16/2020 9:42 PM] mark.randall
Yes.


[5/16/2020 9:42 PM] yashsedai
Sorry bud


[5/16/2020 9:43 PM] yashsedai
The evidence log suggests otherwise


[5/16/2020 9:43 PM] aceat64
this was a good way to pass the day, since I couldn't get much done due to rain


[5/16/2020 9:43 PM] mark.randall
Yet, the DA agrees with my narrative. Internet searches won’t tell the whole story.


[5/16/2020 9:44 PM] yashsedai
Good for him, doesn't change the fact about what the police seized....


[5/16/2020 9:44 PM] mark.randall
But feel free to make up any other narrative. But anything you dream about will be fiction.


[5/16/2020 9:44 PM] yashsedai
You can spin it any way you want, but that part is written down on paper


[5/16/2020 9:45 PM] mark.randall
There’s no shame in having pot. You against legalization?


[5/16/2020 9:45 PM] yashsedai
Nice try at redirection.


[5/16/2020 9:45 PM] mark.randall
You know what else is written down on paper? My case being dismissed.


[5/16/2020 9:45 PM] aceat64
lol


[5/16/2020 9:45 PM] yashsedai
As if that makes you any less guilty


[5/16/2020 9:46 PM] yashsedai
"i was a good boy and didnt get caught on probation"


[5/16/2020 9:46 PM] yashsedai
....


[5/16/2020 9:46 PM] aceat64
by that logic I was never speeding, since the ticket was deferred and then dismissed


[5/16/2020 9:46 PM] mark.randall
Guilty of having pot? I think I’ve made that pretty public.


[5/16/2020 9:46 PM] yashsedai
Take some ownership


[5/16/2020 9:46 PM] mark.randall
I just did.


[5/16/2020 9:46 PM] yashsedai
You made some half assed excuse that you wouldn't have gotten caught if it hadn't been for a mean ole wifey


[5/16/2020 9:47 PM] yashsedai
Thats just plain sad


[5/16/2020 9:47 PM] yashsedai
"I did not have sexual relations with that woman"....comes to mind


[5/16/2020 9:48 PM] mark.randall
Oh yes, I was seriously betrayed... because having pot was a crime. It just isn’t one that is serious.


[5/16/2020 9:49 PM] mark.randall
Pot is not a serious crime anymore fellas. It’s a speeding ticket now. And if you grow it or make brownies, you might even get arrested. But it’s not a serious crime.


[5/16/2020 9:49 PM] anutterbutter
Eh, ok, breaking the law just a little bit is ok.

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[5/16/2020 9:50 PM] yashsedai
That is the crux of the issue


[5/16/2020 9:50 PM] mark.randall
If you have a problem with that though, do something about it.


[5/16/2020 9:50 PM] yashsedai
It's ok to break the law that I don't agree with


[5/16/2020 9:50 PM] mark.randall
No, it’s a risk.


[5/16/2020 9:50 PM] mark.randall
Pot that is.


[5/16/2020 9:50 PM] mark.randall
Not crimes in general.


[5/16/2020 9:51 PM] yashsedai
Applying that to DMS business, this is what makes you an absolutely terrible candidate. Supposing you continue to use.....


[5/16/2020 9:51 PM] mark.randall
LoL


[5/16/2020 9:51 PM] mark.randall
Dude, you’re a nobody.

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[5/16/2020 9:51 PM] yashsedai
Oh?


[5/16/2020 9:51 PM] mark.randall
Stop talking.


[5/16/2020 9:51 PM] yashsedai
I think I've found the right issue here


[5/16/2020 9:51 PM] mark.randall
You’ve demonstrated contempt to the membership.


[5/16/2020 9:52 PM] mark.randall
And you’ve run people off.


[5/16/2020 9:52 PM] yashsedai
Oh?


[5/16/2020 9:52 PM] yashsedai
Do tell


[5/16/2020 9:52 PM] mark.randall
And was forced to quit as “CTO”...


[5/16/2020 9:52 PM] yashsedai
There was no force to quit 🙂

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[5/16/2020 9:52 PM] mark.randall
Oh?


[5/16/2020 9:52 PM] rayearth42
That's completely incorrect


[5/16/2020 9:52 PM] aceat64
wait, Raffi is that you?


[5/16/2020 9:52 PM] mark.randall
You has formal complaints filed against you yes?


[5/16/2020 9:53 PM] nullinterface
> And was forced to quit as “CTO”...
You are quite ill-informed


[5/16/2020 9:53 PM] yashsedai
Formal complaints had fuck all to do with my resignation


[5/16/2020 9:53 PM] mark.randall
My narrative is false?


[5/16/2020 9:54 PM] mark.randall
Oh, well... the public documents tell me something different. But surely you know more than me.


[5/16/2020 9:54 PM] yashsedai
Which documents would that be?


[5/16/2020 9:54 PM] yashsedai
I'd love to see one that said I was forced to resign or terminated


[5/16/2020 9:54 PM] aceat64
maybe he means the Form 428 (Rejection of Appointment)


[5/16/2020 9:54 PM] yashsedai
haha


[5/16/2020 9:54 PM] mark.randall
Documents like the meeting minutes?


[5/16/2020 9:54 PM] mark.randall
Oh yes, the other false narrative


[5/16/2020 9:55 PM] yashsedai
Seems like someone has a problem with reading comprehension


[5/16/2020 9:55 PM] anutterbutter
Nice soap.


[5/16/2020 9:55 PM] aceat64
still would love to hear why you told us off about that whole thing


[5/16/2020 9:56 PM] mark.randall
Really? What would you know about it? You weren’t part of that venture.


[5/16/2020 9:56 PM] aceat64
neither were the two people you listed as directors

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[5/16/2020 9:56 PM] mark.randall
But I expect you thought i was a threat. Wanting to help other Makerspaces and all.


[5/16/2020 9:56 PM] yashsedai
I think the better question is why he felt the need to tell me I'm a nobody after I pointed out that his moral terpitude issues would make him a terrible candidate.


[5/16/2020 9:56 PM] mark.randall
Andrew, that’s misinformation also.


[5/16/2020 9:56 PM] aceat64
except I've consistently helped advise loads of other spaces, and answered questions openly and honestly


[5/16/2020 9:57 PM] aceat64
oh, so you're saying these two people lied straight to my face?


[5/16/2020 9:57 PM] mark.randall
Yes, but when I do it, you betray our friendship.


[5/16/2020 9:57 PM] anutterbutter
G'nite kids, don't go breaking no laws til the morning.


[5/16/2020 9:57 PM] yashsedai
night john boy


[5/16/2020 9:58 PM] mark.randall
No, I’m saying you Andrew, lies.


[5/16/2020 9:58 PM] mark.randall
Lied.


[5/16/2020 9:58 PM] aceat64
about what?


[5/16/2020 9:59 PM] mark.randall
Well, these days, I guess I wouldn’t know where to start. Being a founder of Dallas makerspace, for example.


[5/16/2020 10:00 PM] aceat64
lol


[5/16/2020 10:00 PM] mark.randall
I mean, Jesus dude.


[5/16/2020 10:01 PM] aceat64
I honestly don't understand your issue here


[5/16/2020 10:03 PM] mark.randall
When I talked to Oguz and Romeo... two of my best friends by the way, they said you intimidated them and didn’t want to be part of the makerspace incubator anymore.


[5/16/2020 10:03 PM] aceat64
hahah bullshit


[5/16/2020 10:03 PM] aceat64
@Nodoze


[5/16/2020 10:03 PM] nullinterface
when was DMS an incubator?


[5/16/2020 10:03 PM] mark.randall
Oh really?!!


[5/16/2020 10:03 PM] aceat64
Mark, you do realize Romeo is actually one of my best friends, right?


[5/16/2020 10:04 PM] mark.randall
If that’s true, than he would be playing us both, or you are lying. And I tend to side with Romeo.


[5/16/2020 10:05 PM] mark.randall
Oguz formally stepped down from that disaster in 2016.


[5/16/2020 10:05 PM] mark.randall
And it was a disaster because of your bullshit.


[5/16/2020 10:05 PM] mark.randall
So, thanks for that.


[5/16/2020 10:06 PM] aceat64
lol dude you are so full of shit


[5/16/2020 10:07 PM] quattroquattro
@mark.randall I guess you are high again. Still a crime in Texas by the way.


[5/16/2020 10:07 PM] mark.randall
Really? What would I have to gain by putting down people I know if my intention was malicious?


[5/16/2020 10:07 PM] mark.randall
I could have used random names.


[5/16/2020 10:07 PM] aceat64
you used people you thought wouldn't mind it


[5/16/2020 10:08 PM] quattroquattro
@mark.randall I suppose that you could add people to create the appearance of legitimacy


[5/16/2020 10:08 PM] mark.randall
You’ve got that right. Because they agreed to it already.


[5/16/2020 10:08 PM] quattroquattro
Since you don't have any of that


[5/16/2020 10:08 PM] aceat64
and now you're straight up lying about them wanting to be a part of it and that I somehow intimidated them


[5/16/2020 10:08 PM] aceat64
I didn't even know about your thing until they came to me asking for help about it


[5/16/2020 10:08 PM] mark.randall
Bullshit.


[5/16/2020 10:09 PM] aceat64
yes, your actions were


[5/16/2020 10:09 PM] mark.randall
This is the problem right here.


[5/16/2020 10:09 PM] rayearth42


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[5/16/2020 10:09 PM] mark.randall
I let this issue pass years ago... because this drama is disruptive.


[5/16/2020 10:10 PM] quattroquattro
@mark.randall who to believe, the guy that was proven right about Kris Anderson's fraud and has been transparent in everything he's done or the drug dealer who commits fraud? Tough call there


[5/16/2020 10:11 PM] mark.randall
The issue goes further back than this bullshit.


[5/16/2020 10:12 PM] quattroquattro
The drug dealing issue or the fraud issue@


[5/16/2020 10:13 PM] mark.randall
Both issues are fiction.


[5/16/2020 10:13 PM] aceat64
man, I stepped back from leadership because I just wanted to be able to make stuff, I only partially got dragged back in to deal with the fraud


[5/16/2020 10:13 PM] quattroquattro
The court records seem to indicate otherwise chief


[5/16/2020 10:13 PM] mark.randall
Great... stop pulling me into your drama, Andrew...


[5/16/2020 10:13 PM] quattroquattro
Actually that was Raffi


[5/16/2020 10:14 PM] quattroquattro
He was defending your conviction because it was only skunk weed


[5/16/2020 10:14 PM] aceat64
yup, I'm content to not talk about this stuff, Raffi said my argument was bullshit, I don't bring this stuff up myself because it's just not important to me


[5/16/2020 10:14 PM] quattroquattro
But then I guess he was only doing that because you are running for the board


[5/16/2020 10:14 PM] mark.randall
Court documents show there was no dealing, sport.


[5/16/2020 10:15 PM] mark.randall
Great. I’ll mind your own business, if you mind your own business.


[5/16/2020 10:15 PM] mark.randall
my own business


[5/16/2020 10:15 PM] aceat64
stop trying to fuck up DMS and I won't even think about you


[5/16/2020 10:15 PM] mark.randall
You do the same, and I won’t think about you either.


[5/16/2020 10:15 PM] aceat64
I really don't care what you do otherwise


[5/16/2020 10:16 PM] aceat64
clearly I have taken residence in your mind lol


[5/16/2020 10:16 PM] yashsedai
Lol as I noted before Andrew, he's threatened by you 🙂


[5/16/2020 10:16 PM] mark.randall
Oh, you have... certainly. I was once really proud of you. Still am in many ways.

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[5/16/2020 10:16 PM] aceat64
creepy

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[5/16/2020 10:16 PM] quattroquattro
You mean the deferred adjudication where you plead out to a lesser charge


[5/16/2020 10:17 PM] yashsedai
Mark, do you still smoke weed and keep it ?


[5/16/2020 10:17 PM] quattroquattro
Hard to have any respect for someone with your history and record


[5/16/2020 10:18 PM] mark.randall
Yes, my choice was risking life in prison... or... dropping the charges after some community service. Easy choice.


[5/16/2020 10:18 PM] quattroquattro
Or you could have not been in possession of all that weed


[5/16/2020 10:18 PM] mark.randall
Yes, probably foolish in this state. But I took that risk.


[5/16/2020 10:19 PM] quattroquattro
Which is why you would suck as an office or director at the space


[5/16/2020 10:19 PM] nullinterface
It was what ... 2kg in total?


[5/16/2020 10:19 PM] quattroquattro
You have shit judgement and zero credibility


[5/16/2020 10:19 PM] mark.randall
Apparently that’s not true for everyone. But thanks for your perspective.


[5/16/2020 10:20 PM] mark.randall
Who are you again? Your real name?


[5/16/2020 10:20 PM] quattroquattro
True, I think you have Raffi and dracos votes


[5/16/2020 10:20 PM] yashsedai
HAHA


[5/16/2020 10:20 PM] yashsedai
well all know that Draco doesn't get a vote 😛


[5/16/2020 10:21 PM] yashsedai
He got one!


[5/16/2020 10:21 PM] quattroquattro
Why you want my name? We gonna start a charity together?

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[5/16/2020 10:21 PM] mark.randall
You guys are hilarious.


[5/16/2020 10:22 PM] yashsedai
Hey Mark, I hear ACME might agree with your moral standards, plus all your really important buds are there 🙂


[5/16/2020 10:22 PM] mark.randall
Been a real hoot. Hate this platform, personally. Not that IRC was any better.


[5/16/2020 10:23 PM] yashsedai
Be sure to take raffi with you


[5/16/2020 10:23 PM] yashsedai
he seems to idolize you for some reason


[5/16/2020 10:24 PM] mark.randall
We’ve never met Freddy. But the stories are true. If we ever meet in person, you’ll probably end up being one of my best friends eventually.


[5/16/2020 10:24 PM] yashsedai
oh?


[5/16/2020 10:24 PM] mark.randall
Try me.


[5/16/2020 10:24 PM] yashsedai
what qualities do you have to offer?


[5/16/2020 10:25 PM] mark.randall
In person.


[5/16/2020 10:25 PM] yashsedai
and we have met in person


[5/16/2020 10:25 PM] mark.randall
Not really. I’ve heard you say “excuse me”


[5/16/2020 10:25 PM] yashsedai
i found you to be everything the rumors said about you.


[5/16/2020 10:25 PM] mark.randall
No conversations though.


[5/16/2020 10:27 PM] mark.randall
I’m sorry, if we did have a conversation, I don’t remember.


[5/16/2020 10:27 PM] aceat64
@yashsedai is very forgettable

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[5/16/2020 10:27 PM] yashsedai
lol


[5/16/2020 10:27 PM] yashsedai
its true, my presence is quite small


[5/16/2020 10:27 PM] quattroquattro
I had a conversation with you once, you creeped me out.


[5/16/2020 10:28 PM] mark.randall
I get creepy a lot... it’s in my public profile. 🙂


[5/16/2020 10:28 PM] aceat64
oh hey, Mark do you have that spreadsheet where you made assessments of the membership on stuff like "attitude"?


[5/16/2020 10:29 PM] mark.randall
From 2010?


[5/16/2020 10:29 PM] aceat64
yeah


[5/16/2020 10:29 PM] aceat64
I think Haley had a 1 🤣

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[5/16/2020 10:29 PM] quattroquattro
That's klassy


[5/16/2020 10:29 PM] mark.randall
I haven’t thought about it in years...


[5/16/2020 10:31 PM] rayearth42
A spreadsheet list of members...not creepy at all.

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[5/16/2020 10:32 PM] mark.randall
Haley and me did get into it back then, and I even filed a lawsuit against her. But it was resolved and worked out through a mutual friend one of those Thursday in the parking lot..


[5/16/2020 10:32 PM] yashsedai
super klassy


[5/16/2020 10:32 PM] mark.randall
Not really, no.


[5/16/2020 10:32 PM] mark.randall
It should have been handled better.


[5/16/2020 11:04 PM] toenolla
Ah yes, the famous lawsuit you threatened me with for speaking up about your consistent bad behavior.   We didn't resolve anything, dude.  You whined at me in the parking lot for like an hour and I'm pretty sure these are the first words I've said to you since.

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[5/16/2020 11:06 PM] aceat64
no wonder he gave you a 1 for attitude 🤣


[5/16/2020 11:08 PM] toenolla
I'm a hellion!  Rar!


[5/16/2020 11:44 PM] mark.randall
It’s not famous, and it’s a decade old memory that apparently meant more to me than it did to you, although I hardly remember the details of it now. I remember it being resolved. If it wasn’t for you, that’s not my problem anymore.


[5/16/2020 11:47 PM] mark.randall
I still regret kicking you out of that photo though.


[5/16/2020 11:48 PM] mark.randall
You were around a lot before we got going... always involved... kicking you out of that photo was a mistake.


[5/16/2020 11:49 PM] mark.randall
And I’m sorry I did that to you. I didn’t mean to make you feel like you weren’t important to the space. You were.


[5/16/2020 11:49 PM] toenolla
Look, this is ancient history, and I appreciate that.  But having moved past it and having it resolved are different.


[5/16/2020 11:49 PM] toenolla
I accept your apology, thank you.


[5/16/2020 11:51 PM] toenolla
The thing is, that photo was not the issue.  It was the harassment, and the misuse of power.


[5/16/2020 11:51 PM] mark.randall
I suppose moving past it was a better way of describing what happened.


[5/16/2020 11:54 PM] mark.randall
I’m not sure we are going to agree on perspectives... I regret some of the tactics I used with the DPRG, for sure...


[5/16/2020 11:54 PM] toenolla
I certainly agree.  I'd appreciate if you didn't imply that our mediation ended in us coming to any sort of agreement.


[5/16/2020 11:56 PM] mark.randall
Perhaps my unspoken agreement was not to pursue the issue afterwords. And I didn’t.


[5/16/2020 11:56 PM] mark.randall
I only recall putting it behind me after that.


[5/16/2020 11:57 PM] toenolla
Unspoken agreements are not agreements.  That's called an assumption.  And I think that speaks to the real reason we're in DMS politics chat talking about this.  How many people do you consult before deciding something is ok, or do you just assume?


[5/17/2020 12:00 AM] mark.randall
I make lots of assumptions about things every day... I might not be using all the best words to describe everything... but if it helps keep this in the past by agreeing that we didn’t agree to anything, I’m okay with that.


[5/17/2020 12:04 AM] toenolla
Cool.  Now, can you admit to defrauding the space?  Honestly, the damage you've done to other members is more important to me.  And I know it's more relevant to this channel.

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[5/17/2020 12:04 AM] mark.randall
I never defrauded the Space, sorry.


[5/17/2020 12:05 AM] mark.randall
That’s simply another false narrative.


[5/17/2020 12:11 AM] toenolla
Dude, the more you cry "fake news" the less people are going to believe you.

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[5/17/2020 12:36 AM] mark.randall
Haley, the more that complete strangers and estranged friends make false and baseless accusations about decade old drama, the more people seek me out to understand what the hell is going on.


[5/17/2020 7:55 AM] quattroquattro
How is it false and baseless? The paperwork is all posted for everyone to read. I mean one side has evidence the other has claims of fake news.


[5/17/2020 8:00 AM] quattroquattro
I mean for fuck sake, you start trying to claim you successfully mediated a dispute with someone and moments later they are here saying "no, you didn't" 
You admit to having kept a spreadsheet of members to track their attitude, like some kind of stalker hit list.
You deny the severity of your arrest and deferred adjudication, and yet the court papers are publicly available... 
I'd ask what you are smoking, but we already know that, it's in your arrest record...


[5/17/2020 8:42 AM] mark.randall
My estranged former friends and their friends who are strangers to me are free to continue with false narratives that fill in the gaps with fantasy and other made up bullshit. If you are compelled to do so, I actually advise you continue to make up bullshit and pose other false narratives. Any support you offer me will surely alienate you from your friends, just as it did with Raffi and Draco. Except alienation is just the beginning. You’ll be mocked, persecuted, and harassed too. So keep all the bullshit coming for your own the sake. But if someday you accidentally say something that might be interpreted as supportive of someone like me, and your “friends” end up turning on you because of it, please don’t quit DMS like many others have. You won’t have to look long to find an alternative group of people at DMS that will accept and respect you for exactly who you are, without feeling pressured to be someone you’re not.


[5/17/2020 9:06 AM] quattroquattro
I've read about and experienced enough Draco personally to know if that's your support then you don't have any. Jury is out on Raffi. He's nice in person but damn is he an edgelord when he's on the keyboard. I think he just needs this covid shit to be over and he'll be ok again. As it stands I don't see myself ever sinking to the level where I would proclaim anything supportive of someone like you.


[5/17/2020 9:10 AM] mark.randall
Thanks for your candor, whoever you are.


[5/17/2020 9:16 AM] quattroquattro
Mark, my issue with you is that you are running for the board and all these people bring up valid questions about your ethics and behavior. All your answers either brush asside your poor behavior or they try and throw the blame on the people that pointed out your behavior. I have yet to see any meaningful answer from you. The answers we do get are trite and sarcastic and don't address the behavior in question. In short it seems clear that you have not changed your ways on any of the matters anyone has reported about you.


[5/17/2020 9:19 AM] mark.randall
These people bring up neither valid questions or concerns. I’m happy to discuss reality with anyone. I have, and I do.


[5/17/2020 9:21 AM] mark.randall
But I won’t be addressing the details of a fictional account. Obviously, I can’t. You’ll have to get those details from whoever made up the bullshit.


[5/17/2020 9:38 AM] quattroquattro
See, there it is right there. Right here in this thread You brought up the lawsuit with Haley, she shows up and says your story is false. And now you imply it's not a valid question and tell me to get the details from whomever made up the "bullshit" but as we can see right here in your own responses, that's you...


[5/17/2020 9:38 AM] quattroquattro
Bless your heart...


[5/17/2020 10:04 AM] ferricyanide7475
Soooo if 3.3 pounds is personally use, how much did/do you smoke a day? And how do you afford such an expensive habit?

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[5/17/2020 11:37 AM] rayearth42
Wow.  I almost hope that drugs are responsible for the pages of incoherent rambling that I scrolled past.  If not you should probably get that checked out.  Are you going to stop or reduce your drug use if elected to the board or is this what we should expect from you as a board member?


[5/17/2020 11:37 AM] rayearth42


{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/711618397468753990/drugs-bdb0wl.jpg?ex=67b95487&is=67b80307&hm=65142ad7d151d370c31386b8705cf42e0693892d87eeacdfcfaf036efa1b94d9&


[5/17/2020 12:51 PM] anutterbutter
What? Why? Why did you try to sue Haley Mark?


[5/17/2020 12:53 PM] nullinterface
hey now, that might be deemed an invalid question


[5/17/2020 1:35 PM] yashsedai
Haha


[5/17/2020 1:48 PM] toenolla
I called Mark out on the forums because he threatened me, and since he was on the board I felt so unsafe and unwelcome that I had to quit the space. He didn't like that.


[5/17/2020 1:51 PM] hon1nbo
The fact he fraudulently listed members on his other non-profit is enough on its own to show he has no sense of morals nor decency to run a legitimate one.
And inb4 he says that's a lie: the rejection of appointment in the DMS board minutes, the state forcefully dissolving the nonprofit because of fraudulent appointments, and literally everyone but him from that time says otherwise


[5/17/2020 1:51 PM] toenolla
There was no grievance policy back then. It was the wild west.


[5/17/2020 1:54 PM] aceat64
Remember that time Mark trolled the group building face shields by trying to pretend like he was involved and helping?


[5/17/2020 1:54 PM] aceat64
https://github.com/mrhavens/maker-community-ppe

{Embed}
https://github.com/mrhavens/maker-community-ppe
mrhavens/maker-community-ppe
Dallas/Fort Worth area initiative to save lives by donating Maker made PPE. - mrhavens/maker-community-ppe
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/EnUNQ8XodfQdf297Mzym-5Y7lXD6feoC1F9hh4GdirU/%3Fs%3D400%26v%3D4/https/avatars1.githubusercontent.com/u/25407680


[5/17/2020 1:55 PM] mark.randall
We created a grievance process because of your bullshit, Haley.


[5/17/2020 1:55 PM] aceat64
even changed the git commits to his name, very classy


[5/17/2020 1:55 PM] aceat64
inb4 Mark's defense is that the license allows it


[5/17/2020 1:56 PM] mark.randall
LoL... more false narratives. I promoted this and gave you full credit.


[5/17/2020 1:56 PM] aceat64
why not fork the repo and keep the commit history, as is standard for open source forks?


[5/17/2020 1:57 PM] toenolla
(He threatened me because I tried to talk him out of committing DMS to a sketchy financial deal, but I'm sure he doesn't remember that.)


[5/17/2020 1:57 PM] mark.randall
My supporters already think your the Antichrist. But yeah, I gave you full credit anyway.


[5/17/2020 1:57 PM] aceat64
why even have the repo anyway, the entire point of it being open source was so _other groups_ could do a similar thing, not to weirdly try to split the location of documentation for one group


[5/17/2020 1:57 PM] aceat64
of which you are not a part of and have offered no help towards


[5/17/2020 1:58 PM] mark.randall
You made it public domain... and said anyone could use it for whatever they wanted... apparently that didn’t extend to me.


[5/17/2020 1:58 PM] mark.randall
You wanted credit. I have you credit.


[5/17/2020 1:58 PM] aceat64
again, I made it public domain for a pretty clear reason


[5/17/2020 1:59 PM] aceat64
it's not about credit, it's about not trying to confuse people


[5/17/2020 1:59 PM] aceat64
what was your goal in creating it?


[5/17/2020 1:59 PM] aceat64
when it's so much easier to just link to the stuff DMS posted


[5/17/2020 2:00 PM] mark.randall
You’re page looked like shit.


[5/17/2020 2:00 PM] aceat64
pull requests welcome


[5/17/2020 2:00 PM] aceat64
that's called collaboration


[5/17/2020 2:00 PM] mark.randall
Another line of bullshit.


[5/17/2020 2:01 PM] aceat64
how so? the repo is open for anyone to submit pull requests


[5/17/2020 2:01 PM] mark.randall
What difference does it make? I have you full credit and wanted to work alone. Working with you invites drama .


[5/17/2020 2:02 PM] aceat64
if I cared about credit, don't you think I'd be posting livestreams and all kinds of stuff to social media?


[5/17/2020 2:03 PM] mark.randall
If you didn’t care about credit, you would have used an anonymous website.


[5/17/2020 2:03 PM] aceat64
for someone who claims to run a DevOps focused company, you don't seem to understand how git/github/oss work


[5/17/2020 2:03 PM] aceat64
it took more effort to make your clone repo than to just click fork


[5/17/2020 2:04 PM] mark.randall
Yes it did.


[5/17/2020 2:04 PM] aceat64
clearly credit seems to be a very important thing to you, but to the rest of us, we're just trying to make PPE


[5/17/2020 2:04 PM] aceat64
please stop trying to confuse people with your repo


[5/17/2020 2:04 PM] mark.randall
LoL


[5/17/2020 2:05 PM] mark.randall
Dude, you’re full of shit. It’s obvious this is personal.


[5/17/2020 2:05 PM] aceat64
it's funny, because I kept telling people to ignore your trolling on this, they kept wanting me to call you out


[5/17/2020 2:05 PM] mark.randall
Nobody is confused but you.


[5/17/2020 2:08 PM] mark.randall
There’s nothing to call out. If we collaborated on anything, I would have lost support. If you got any PPE at all from my promotion efforts, just be thankful for the support...


[5/17/2020 2:08 PM] mark.randall
People fucking hate you dude.


[5/17/2020 2:08 PM] aceat64
wait, so you care more about politics than building PPE?


[5/17/2020 2:09 PM] aceat64
I don't care what people think about me, I'm happy with my life, my friends and my family


[5/17/2020 2:09 PM] aceat64
hate away

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[5/17/2020 2:09 PM] mark.randall
No, I cared getting PPE, which wouldn’t have happened if we worked together.


[5/17/2020 2:09 PM] aceat64
I do the right thing, even when it's hard or when dumb people want to complain about it, if that causes people to hate me, that's on them


[5/17/2020 2:09 PM] quattroquattro
@mark.randall what Andrew is describing is literally how git is supposed to work. Your way of doing it is definitely shady


[5/17/2020 2:10 PM] aceat64
investigating DMS finances and removing people who stole was the right thing to do, regardless of what those people or their friends believe, theft is wrong


[5/17/2020 2:10 PM] mark.randall
More false narratives. This is all petty personal bullshit.


[5/17/2020 2:11 PM] aceat64
lol ok


[5/17/2020 2:11 PM] mark.randall
Nobody is talking about theft.


[5/17/2020 2:11 PM] mark.randall
Just you.


[5/17/2020 2:11 PM] quattroquattro
Why are we wasting our time arguing with him? He's obviously never done anything wrong and everyone else is mistaken


[5/17/2020 2:11 PM] aceat64
the only people that hate me are the people who are upset about Kris and Stan, who stole from DMS, why should I care that they hate me?


[5/17/2020 2:11 PM] aceat64
I'm waiting for my pizza to finish cooking


[5/17/2020 2:11 PM] aceat64
that's why I'm wasting time lol


[5/17/2020 2:12 PM] quattroquattro
Indeed, if you judge Andrew by the quality of his enemies then he's a pretty good dude.


[5/17/2020 2:12 PM] mark.randall
Making up petty bullshit narratives is all that’s going on here. We go back a long way Andrew.. and only a couple of years of that was pleasant. I moved on, and so should you.


[5/17/2020 2:12 PM] aceat64
clearly


[5/17/2020 2:14 PM] quattroquattro
As mark himself established higher up the thread all evidence against him is false, even when he provided said evidence as he did when he claimed all that noise about the lawsuit that Haley has shown to be false.


[5/17/2020 2:14 PM] michaelb5250
I thought the term was 'wake and bake' not 'wake and bicker'

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[5/17/2020 2:15 PM] quattroquattro
His statement only became made-up petty bullshit when it was shown to be false


[5/17/2020 2:17 PM] mark.randall
Andrew, you’ve been driving a wedge between anyone who doesn’t support your false narratives. You’re not building anything when you do that. You’re not saving the space. You’re tearing it down.


[5/17/2020 2:17 PM] hon1nbo
@mark.randall considering your git caused confusion, and now has created a split in the event of updates, you clearly don't care about actually getting PPE versus some petty personal bullshit you have against andrew


[5/17/2020 2:17 PM] hon1nbo
in crisis divergent information is a core blocker to things getting done. There was not reason to not fork it


[5/17/2020 2:17 PM] mark.randall
LoL.. another avalanche of bullshit


[5/17/2020 2:18 PM] hon1nbo
and we've provided the evidence it's not false narratives, and so far everyone else involved with those events (including those you claimed would back you) have said otherwise


[5/17/2020 2:18 PM] hon1nbo
that's all I'm gonna say here


[5/17/2020 2:18 PM] hon1nbo
this channel is already enough of a dumpster fire today


[5/17/2020 2:20 PM] aceat64
pizzas ready, have fun


[5/17/2020 2:21 PM] mark.randall
Evidence coupled with false narratives is not truth. It’s bullshit. There is no honest commitment to reality from you guys... but Andrew has found his crowd, for sure. Good luck. Leave me out of the drama.

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[5/17/2020 3:05 PM] anutterbutter
? From my perspective I asked a clarifying question (thank you Haley), but all I've heard from Mark are more personal threats.

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[5/17/2020 3:10 PM] anutterbutter
Thanks for calling yourself out, now I know who not to vote for.


[5/17/2020 3:15 PM] toenolla
(I presume the "bullshit" he's referring to up there were my subsequent years of pushing for a grievance process. Guilty as charged I guess.)


[5/17/2020 3:31 PM] doug.emes
This took an hour to read... @Pearce I almost regret asking this, but can we get a raffi channel and a mark Havens channel?  And redirect to those... I fear I'll miss out on the other candidates if I mute this channel


[5/17/2020 3:45 PM] michaelb5250
Wasn't this supposed to be the channel for this kind of stuff? I think it got added when Freddy and Draco kept going at it in general


[5/17/2020 3:48 PM] doug.emes
My point is, and I'd assume others feel this way, is that some/many are done with the hashing (no pun) and would like to only continue to read about the others


[5/17/2020 3:50 PM] michaelb5250
I think you're asking for a 'post your bickering here' channel, if I'm understanding right?


[5/17/2020 3:50 PM] doug.emes
Indeed


[5/17/2020 3:50 PM] michaelb5250
Iirc that was the idea behind this channel


[5/17/2020 3:50 PM] doug.emes
We don't HAVE to, but it would be helpful


[5/17/2020 3:51 PM] michaelb5250
I don't remember what we've used this channel for other than bickering tbh


[5/17/2020 3:51 PM] doug.emes
Weve talked about joe and jim, and those ran their course


[5/17/2020 3:51 PM] doug.emes
I'm afraid raffi mark never will


[5/17/2020 3:51 PM] doug.emes
And there's several more candidates that don't deserve to be missed


[5/17/2020 3:51 PM] doug.emes
Due to the monopoly


[5/17/2020 3:52 PM] michaelb5250
I guess I just classify that all as bickering lol


[5/17/2020 4:17 PM] ferricyanide7475
Yeah i also thought this channel was opened to move this out of general


[5/17/2020 4:17 PM] ferricyanide7475
Unless you can convince pearce we need a bickering/timeout channel


[5/17/2020 4:38 PM] michaelb5250
Ok, a timeout channel. It's the only channel you can post in, and every post is followed by the bot replying with a random variant of 'can't you give it a rest already'

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[5/17/2020 4:44 PM] quattroquattro
I mean this is sort of the bickering channel by default. Not all the candidates are on discord or If they are they aren't all active. The thread on talk should have the campaign related stuff. This, being an unofficial channel should have the more freeform stuff


[5/17/2020 5:05 PM] brsims2406
Just sounds like more of your false naratives, man.


[5/17/2020 5:06 PM] brsims2406
(that's what we do here, right?)

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[5/17/2020 5:10 PM] hardsuit
Technically isn't talk unofficial as well?


[5/17/2020 5:14 PM] michaelb5250
Talk is official as it's controlled and moderated by DMS, afaik


[5/17/2020 5:16 PM] michaelb5250
Discord is run by Pearce, who isn't considered DMS because none of us want to be associated with him anyways


[5/17/2020 5:16 PM] michaelb5250
Or something like that


[5/17/2020 5:21 PM] hon1nbo
so Talk in unofficial in that it's not an official organizational record (like how committee minutes are often posted to Talk is a courtesy, but they're *required* to go on the Wiki since that is our official record for said minutes). Additionally the DMS emails are official records for DnO and committee chairs, etc. Things like Talk are DMS sponsored (in this case it's owned by Infrastructure), but things like this Discord were made by members and are not managed by DMS


[5/17/2020 6:46 PM] canibalcrab
The discord and reddit are not moderated by DMS


[5/17/2020 6:53 PM] canibalcrab
This channel is sufficient for this kind of garbage.

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[5/18/2020 11:17 PM] james_david_vance
> (that's what we do here, right?)
@Brsims Yes


[5/18/2020 11:28 PM] james_david_vance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xvx6JwO63to

{Embed}
Ryan Minor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xvx6JwO63to
George Carlin on Individuality
I little excerpt from a George Carlin audio book that I wanted to share.
Enjoi!
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/xpziK91VKgbcEcjajzYEZENty8tgD5yYc-D0cOlhk-s/https/i.ytimg.com/vi/Xvx6JwO63to/hqdefault.jpg


[5/19/2020 7:06 AM] anutterbutter
Guessing an online meet the candidates, not sure what platform would be best.


[5/19/2020 8:13 AM] anutterbutter


{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/712291934365810728/20200519_081327.jpg?ex=67b924ce&is=67b7d34e&hm=0e9f91fd4f0f88b9b217db00e8bb62def3586e77d33418c26ec7684fcedca0a5&

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[5/25/2020 5:43 AM] noble_goblin
All the messages from the 16th have gone perfectly with my morning coffee.


[5/25/2020 5:45 AM] noble_goblin
Through the 19th* 

Not that my two cents matter much to many, but when people running for office/positions of power come on a chat or forum and argue over past mistakes it is a huge red flag for me. Regardless of personal opinion just own up, make a statement, and bounce.


[5/25/2020 5:51 AM] noble_goblin
I think an online Meet would be great. The only difficult part would getting everyone on the same platform. Ya'll would need to schedule it out at least two weeks


[5/25/2020 11:11 AM] quattroquattro
I don't think it would be a problem getting everyone on the same platform for a meeting. We have a corporate google meet account and zoom is free. I am sure someone here has a webex account too.

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[5/25/2020 10:13 PM] yashsedai
🤡


[5/25/2020 11:17 PM] james_david_vance
Speaking of clowns...

{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/714693578290495538/Screenshot_20200525-231540.jpg?ex=67b94fc3&is=67b7fe43&hm=2642d794c62ba75f26b8e8815983a5760f758a58d166433d351ab276cbdd96af&

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[5/25/2020 11:28 PM] yashsedai
Only clown is you


[5/25/2020 11:29 PM] yashsedai
Yet more whining by you on something that doesn't meet your "standards"


[5/25/2020 11:29 PM] yashsedai
Sorry @DJ Vance , we don't live in raffiland. I'm sure glad we don't, that place looks rather unstable.


[5/25/2020 11:30 PM] james_david_vance
If you make a cogent argument, I'll respond to it.


[5/25/2020 11:30 PM] yashsedai
if you made cogent sense you wouldn't have a problem


[5/25/2020 11:30 PM] yashsedai
As it stands....


[5/25/2020 11:38 PM] james_david_vance
Regarding the drug dealer accusation: I think it's really important to get your facts straight when you throw an accusation like that at someone. Especially someone whom you have a negative history with, who is running for board against  you. If you play fast and loose with the facts, like how much the oil might have been worth, it comes off as self-serving. I don't think anyone without a dog in this fight actually thinks that a difference of 10 grand of highly concentrated THC oil vs some Crisco with an ounce of weed in it is splitting hairs.

You should try to start with the facts to come up with a reasonable interpretation as opposed to starting with an interpretation, e.g. Mark bad and coming up with evidence to support it, e.g. 10 grand worth of oil.


[5/25/2020 11:39 PM] james_david_vance
Some reasonable rebuttals to this would be:
1. I didn't play fast and loose and here's why
2. Playing fast and loose is okay and here's why


[5/25/2020 11:39 PM] yashsedai
Are you still on about this?


[5/25/2020 11:39 PM] yashsedai
You would mistake me actually caring about your opinion.


[5/25/2020 11:39 PM] yashsedai
At this point, you keep bringing up dead subjects like a paranoid person who just can't let it go


[5/25/2020 11:40 PM] yashsedai
For you own good, let it go and move on. It sounds like it's eating at you, gotta let that shit go.


[5/25/2020 11:45 PM] talkers
@yashsedai if you don't care, then let it go yourself and don't reply.

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[5/25/2020 11:46 PM] yashsedai
or john, you can mind your own business


[5/25/2020 11:46 PM] yashsedai
nobody yanked your chain


[5/25/2020 11:48 PM] yashsedai
don't you have somes masks to put together


[5/25/2020 11:48 PM] yashsedai
for the potential deathtrap called acme?


[5/25/2020 11:51 PM] talkers
@yashsedai and you want to lead? Lol

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[5/25/2020 11:52 PM] yashsedai
It's ok john, the ship sailed on your opinion a while back. That whole being drunk 24/7/365 doesn't really work so well.


[5/25/2020 11:53 PM] yashsedai
Anything else I'm doing not up to your standards?


[5/25/2020 11:54 PM] james_david_vance
Now imagine this at a board meeting


[5/25/2020 11:54 PM] yashsedai
Feel free to tell someone who cares


[5/25/2020 11:54 PM] james_david_vance
The world doesn't revolve around you, bud


[5/25/2020 11:54 PM] yashsedai
Unlike you, I'm quite well aware of the fact.


[5/25/2020 11:55 PM] yashsedai
Aww raffi are you trying to injure me?


[5/25/2020 11:58 PM] james_david_vance
There are core principles at play here that are bigger than what you personally care about.

So what's it going to be? Is playing fast and loose with the evidence okay or is equating some Crisco with an ounce of weed in it and highly concentrated THC oil not playing fast and loose?


[5/25/2020 11:59 PM] yashsedai
See, blah blah, more living in denial


[5/26/2020 12:00 AM] yashsedai
I'm afraid raffi you are demonstrating just how unqualified of an observer you are with all this.


[5/26/2020 12:00 AM] yashsedai
As Andrew previously stated, you lack the ability to reason


[5/26/2020 12:01 AM] james_david_vance
Do you have any original thoughts on this though? Or should I just go back and read what Andrew said to see what you think?


[5/26/2020 12:01 AM] yashsedai
you couldn't even realize mark's github was fake


[5/26/2020 12:02 AM] yashsedai
wanna explain for us why that is?


[5/26/2020 12:03 AM] james_david_vance
I think that would qualify as changing the topic midstream and I don't want to get silenced on here. Nice attempt though. The question remains.


[5/26/2020 12:03 AM] yashsedai
only in your mind


[5/26/2020 12:03 AM] michaelb5250
/me writes reminder to see when orkin is coming out next


[5/26/2020 12:03 AM] james_david_vance
I bet there will be more attempts to not have a conversation about the drug dealer accusation.


[5/26/2020 12:05 AM] yashsedai
i bet there will be more attempts to try to defend your lack of logic and beat the pulpy, frothing, dead horse lying in a bloody mess


[5/26/2020 12:07 AM] james_david_vance
Sometimes I just wish you'd say something interesting. So far I've pretty much just seen no-content messages on here from you.


[5/26/2020 12:07 AM] yashsedai
lol are you talking about yourself?


[5/26/2020 12:07 AM] yashsedai
or to yourself


[5/26/2020 12:07 AM] yashsedai
www.amitalkingtomyself.com?


[5/26/2020 12:15 AM] canibalcrab
So


[5/26/2020 12:16 AM] canibalcrab
The DMS reddit is unmoderated


[5/26/2020 12:16 AM] canibalcrab
And I don't read it


[5/26/2020 12:16 AM] canibalcrab
So maybe go see what they have to think about your email


[5/26/2020 5:13 AM] noble_goblin
This mornings catch-up was less interesting with coffee. Why do people continue to feed trolls and thus end up turning into them?

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[5/26/2020 7:24 AM] nullinterface
ah, Reddit.  I read sections occasionally but the whole upvote bandwagon and weird threading has me not registering an account for years now.


[5/26/2020 7:28 AM] nullinterface
appears to be mostly Dwight on DMS reddit


[5/26/2020 8:19 AM] noble_goblin
Eh. It's a public face of the space. It should be somewhat monitored if nothing else


[5/26/2020 8:21 AM] canibalcrab
It was created for the same reason I made the discord, to be a place where the board doesn't have control over the content


[5/26/2020 8:22 AM] canibalcrab
It was quite handy when talk suddenly got shut down entirely and posts about mysterious contract signing were disappearing from talk


[5/26/2020 8:27 AM] noble_goblin
That why I said monitored and not modded


[5/26/2020 8:28 AM] noble_goblin
I fully support the free speech idea for non-public faces


[5/26/2020 9:00 AM] andrew5152
are we talking dallasmakerspace or DallasMakerSpace?


[5/26/2020 9:01 AM] canibalcrab
Hwut


[5/26/2020 9:02 AM] canibalcrab
I don't reddit, but I didn't think caps in urls did anything


[5/26/2020 9:03 AM] andrew5152
🤷‍♂️  me no reddit either, except the occasional trawl


[5/26/2020 10:41 AM] noble_goblin
pretty sure caps mean nothing


[5/26/2020 10:43 AM] yashsedai
CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL


[5/26/2020 11:26 AM] canibalcrab
https://media.tenor.com/images/e557f2fb2084c8578b4bec88b5c005cc/tenor.gif

{Embed}
https://media.tenor.com/images/e557f2fb2084c8578b4bec88b5c005cc/tenor.gif
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/0X5t0FrHfsMXrA14_w_l3LSFHQAWtOYxTdbe73HVdvo/https/media.tenor.com/images/e557f2fb2084c8578b4bec88b5c005cc/tenor.gif

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[5/26/2020 11:31 AM] draco_the_drake


{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/714878304120864848/Screenshot_Discord_Official.png?ex=67b9530d&is=67b8018d&hm=7c409bc53fb400b44610ce45e0d0e4c621e853edd96da2634fe7871f196ea112&


[5/26/2020 11:31 AM] draco_the_drake
@pearce 😛


[5/26/2020 11:33 AM] canibalcrab
I declined the offer


[5/26/2020 11:33 AM] canibalcrab
Pay wasn't good enough


[5/26/2020 11:33 AM] draco_the_drake
lol


[5/26/2020 12:15 PM] kenpurcell
Even if quadrupled the pay would still suck


[5/26/2020 12:15 PM] themitch22
We need a DMS Kik and tiktok ran by disgruntled members


[5/26/2020 12:18 PM] themitch22
I'll take over dms tiktok, not a disgruntled member


[5/26/2020 12:19 PM] themitch22
Like most tiktok it would be stolen youtube videos formated to pop music and weird video effects


[5/26/2020 12:24 PM] michaelb5250
Where would we find disgruntled members though?


[5/26/2020 12:24 PM] themitch22
ACME


[5/26/2020 12:25 PM] themitch22
I need to be younger and more attractive for tiktok, maybe another volunteer

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[5/26/2020 12:31 PM] james_david_vance
> This mornings catch-up was less interesting with coffee. Why do people continue to feed trolls and thus end up turning into them?
@NobleGoblin

Because his trolling was working. He got an emotional response out of me and I responded by insulting him. It's something I can definitely improve on. It's not easy for me to stay calm in that kind of situation, but I think if I take it as kind of a personal challenge, over time I can get better at it.

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[5/26/2020 12:32 PM] draco_the_drake
I've worked on my responses to Freddy ... mainly just ignore now


[5/26/2020 12:33 PM] draco_the_drake
I don't let him goat me anymore


[5/26/2020 12:34 PM] themitch22
https://vm.tiktok.com/wo7QrU/


[5/26/2020 12:34 PM] themitch22
My only dms tiktok video


[5/26/2020 12:35 PM] aceat64
> Video currently unavailable


[5/26/2020 12:38 PM] nullinterface
here I thought tiktok was all about whatever flavor of $AttractiveFemale was popular this week


[5/26/2020 12:40 PM] themitch22
That too, once the algorithm finds what you like though, im finding a ton of maker DIY videos


[5/26/2020 12:41 PM] james_david_vance
I've been listening to the Joe Rogan podcast with Steven Pinker, a cognitive psychologist. He talks about how we evolved to be nice to people because if we do so, we are seen as valuable to have as friends, but that the people who do this in a very calculating way, who do the bare minimum or who expect stuff in return often don't get the benefits because they're seen as selfish, even though they are kind. And this whole system inky works when everyone is able to keep track of who did what. So when you remove that accountability by introducing anonymity, the system kind of breaks down.


[5/26/2020 12:41 PM] themitch22
Its a huge platform too not just rich entitled teens


[5/26/2020 12:41 PM] nullinterface
because YouTube is too conformist?


[5/26/2020 12:42 PM] themitch22
To me its Vine 2.0 with better video editing built in

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[5/26/2020 12:42 PM] themitch22
Like its really nice to edit videos in tiktok, compared to the traditional way


[5/26/2020 12:43 PM] themitch22
That said there is a lot of youtuber content professionally edited but truncated to 30sec for the ADD audience


[5/26/2020 12:43 PM] nullinterface
the few times I've done video editing it involved breaking out VirtualDub and waiting ... some time ... for the re-encode


[5/26/2020 12:44 PM] nullinterface
distilled to 30sec  ... ***all **the jump cuts*


[5/26/2020 12:44 PM] themitch22
Yep some people are really clever though


[5/26/2020 12:44 PM] themitch22
Story telling in 30 sec like vine 10sec


[5/26/2020 12:51 PM] nullinterface
not like YouTube isn't immune to the phenomenon - plenty of longer videos that use the style


[5/26/2020 1:02 PM] canibalcrab
Didn't tic tok just get busted for directly pushing "ugly, poor, outlier" profiles down in the algorithm?


[5/26/2020 1:38 PM] themitch22
I heard that


[5/26/2020 1:41 PM] themitch22
Or down voting trans or LGBTQ videos, it is a chinese company so I wouldn't doubt it. I see a few non binary people on tiktok, I think the algorithm works off view duration, likes, and comments I think ugly poor outlier is just a human nature thing


[5/26/2020 1:45 PM] nullinterface
if they're like most money-oriented companies they'll chase *whatever works* with other considerations being secondary


[5/26/2020 1:58 PM] themitch22
They still have ToS so nudity and illegal stuff gets removed quickly hopefully. Or else it would just be 4chan


[5/26/2020 2:03 PM] hon1nbo
I can't imagine a 4chan with audio


[5/26/2020 2:04 PM] themitch22
Hence Kik


[5/26/2020 2:05 PM] themitch22
Give people anonymous chat and let the dark side of human nature take over


[5/26/2020 2:10 PM] quattroquattro
Hell, half the times you don't have to be anonymous to get the dark side of people...


[5/26/2020 2:10 PM] canibalcrab
4chan does have audio now because of webm


[5/26/2020 2:11 PM] canibalcrab
its not an upgrade


[5/26/2020 2:57 PM] themitch22
It just means I have to mute the porn


[5/26/2020 3:44 PM] nullinterface
Chrome: *mute site*


[5/27/2020 1:10 PM] yashsedai
🤡


[5/27/2020 1:16 PM] andrew5152
ha. as if to PROVE I don't reddit:

{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/715267260238921728/unknown.png?ex=67b96bcb&is=67b81a4b&hm=a799657d63c2f33caea02494e2acb22d91d5e270f99fbe9effe4cf1973656ccf&


[5/27/2020 1:19 PM] yashsedai
lies


[5/27/2020 1:19 PM] andrew5152
the first, dallasmakerspace is r/dallasmakerspace
while the second (with no members) is u/dallasmakerspace
which I thought was 2 "accounts" (and I suppose sort of is...one user, one...whatever the heck r stands for)


[5/27/2020 1:31 PM] canibalcrab
yeah u/ is for users


[5/27/2020 1:31 PM] canibalcrab
r/ stands for reddit

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[5/27/2020 1:34 PM] andrew5152
are there other x/entities? or just u/ and r/ ?


[5/27/2020 1:37 PM] canibalcrab
not sure


[5/27/2020 1:37 PM] canibalcrab
thats most of my reddit info

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[6/1/2020 5:42 PM] yashsedai
@aceat64 I wasn't aware that DMS celebrated pride month.....That whole politics and non profit not mixing business.....


[6/1/2020 6:01 PM] themitch22
Since the dms discord is the official unofficial DMS chat


[6/1/2020 6:04 PM] aceat64
Yup, discord is unofficial and we wanted to celebrate it


[6/1/2020 6:04 PM] breastiny
Its not political


[6/1/2020 6:04 PM] yashsedai
we?


[6/1/2020 6:05 PM] yashsedai
How is it not political?


[6/1/2020 6:05 PM] breastiny
How is it political?


[6/1/2020 6:05 PM] yashsedai
lol


[6/1/2020 6:05 PM] yashsedai
nice dodge


[6/1/2020 6:07 PM] breastiny
Why should what people are attracted to be something anyone should be against?


[6/1/2020 6:07 PM] breastiny
How does it hurt our country?


[6/1/2020 6:08 PM] doug.emes
Actually, we should politely request the official  dms logo not be modified for branding.  But I totally support just using letters with either the original 8 color band, or a reduced color band


[6/1/2020 6:12 PM] canibalcrab
the logo has no official colors, as stated on the wiki

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[6/1/2020 6:13 PM] yashsedai
I don't see how the association helps the org


[6/1/2020 6:14 PM] canibalcrab
i dont see how it hurts the org

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[6/1/2020 6:14 PM] yashsedai
The org should have no association. It should remain neutral


[6/1/2020 6:15 PM] yashsedai
Logo insinuates support....


[6/1/2020 6:20 PM] michaelb5250
God forbid we support people making perfectly acceptable life choices.

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[6/1/2020 6:21 PM] yashsedai
Or, there is just absolutely no place for it within our org....It's got nothing to do with it...


[6/1/2020 6:22 PM] andrew5152
lifestyle agnostic is a much better look for an eclectic organization like ours.


[6/1/2020 6:23 PM] mell.jpg
I think lifestyle acceptance might be better look for us.

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[6/1/2020 6:23 PM] yashsedai
Feel free to do you, but leave the org out of it


[6/1/2020 6:25 PM] andrew5152
@mell  I agree, but I don't think we mean the same thing. I haven't seen any ichthys incorporated recently, but I know plenty of our members swing that way, too.


[6/1/2020 6:26 PM] andrew5152
These types of displays tend to middle finger one faction while being supportive of another.


[6/1/2020 6:27 PM] yashsedai
^^


[6/1/2020 6:29 PM] canibalcrab
i wanted an animated one with all the flags, but can only ask for so much when im not doing the work myself

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[6/1/2020 6:30 PM] michaelb5250
You can do a gif channel icon?


[6/1/2020 6:30 PM] canibalcrab
yep


[6/1/2020 6:30 PM] canibalcrab
because the server is boosted


[6/1/2020 6:30 PM] toenolla
As an org that was founded in part by a trans woman, I'd say this is spot on personally.


[6/1/2020 6:31 PM] yashsedai
What does sexual orientation/attraction/etc have to do with DMS? Not a damn thing.....


[6/1/2020 6:34 PM] themitch22
Usually we oust the homophobic members or they do it themselves, its happened before.


[6/1/2020 6:34 PM] yashsedai
@themitch22 what does that have to do with this conversation?


[6/1/2020 6:35 PM] themitch22
Just the memories of certain rants at a member meeting. Reminiscing


[6/1/2020 6:36 PM] yashsedai
Ah, so nothing at all


[6/1/2020 6:39 PM] themitch22
Since this is unofficial wouldn't it be the mods call?


[6/1/2020 6:40 PM] yashsedai
unofficial or not, its the org's logo....


[6/1/2020 6:40 PM] yashsedai
doesn't take a lot of brainpower to realize that there is no reason to associate the two


[6/1/2020 6:40 PM] toenolla
The community is super queer, dude. Get over it.


[6/1/2020 6:40 PM] yashsedai
Again, whats does that have to do with the org?


[6/1/2020 6:41 PM] yashsedai
The org by definition can't be queer ... its not alive....


[6/1/2020 6:42 PM] toenolla
You're right. Without the community, DMS wouldn't exist.


[6/1/2020 6:42 PM] yashsedai
You can try to justify it all you want.


[6/1/2020 6:43 PM] yashsedai
No place for these kinds of politics in business....


[6/1/2020 6:43 PM] yashsedai
Oh and from a stats perspective, you'd be wrong....


[6/1/2020 6:44 PM] toenolla
I wasn't aware you were keeping track.


[6/1/2020 6:44 PM] themitch22
In the channel DMS-politics


[6/1/2020 6:44 PM] yashsedai
It's not hard to gauge


[6/1/2020 6:44 PM] yashsedai
Spend some time at the space


[6/1/2020 6:44 PM] yashsedai
you might see for yourself


[6/1/2020 6:50 PM] andrew5152
It is a pity to pit two factions against one another, regardless of the numbers on either side.


[6/1/2020 6:50 PM] yashsedai
That's my whole point


[6/1/2020 6:51 PM] yashsedai
It's not about whether you believe a certain way or not, just abstain from it there doesn't need to be anyone having an issue...


[6/1/2020 6:54 PM] toenolla
I love this channel. People keep coming in and making the best cases for electing them.


[6/1/2020 7:13 PM] yashsedai
So now I'm unelectable because I think that you should keep your causes out of business? Tell me how that makes any sense...


[6/1/2020 7:13 PM] yashsedai
Sounds like you might be intolerant to me.


[6/1/2020 7:14 PM] yashsedai
Wish that wasn't the case...


[6/1/2020 7:31 PM] breastiny
My cause is to be accepted and not be treated like less than human when someone learns of my way of life.


[6/1/2020 7:31 PM] breastiny
Which they will because I shouldn't have to hide who I spend time with when I'm socializing


[6/1/2020 7:32 PM] yashsedai
Nobody is asking you to hide or saying your cause is wrong.


[6/1/2020 7:40 PM] phreddy0591
You're on the wrong side of history dude get over it


[6/1/2020 7:40 PM] yashsedai
Am I?


[6/1/2020 7:40 PM] yashsedai
Would love to hear how you think that is the case


[6/1/2020 7:47 PM] draco_the_drake
Well, I don't see a trans burlesque show on the calendar yet .. 😛  ...  I don't think many would complain about the rainbow logo ...


[6/1/2020 8:48 PM] 8bit_orin
Here are 30 companies that chose to chase the gay dollar last year.
https://www.newsweek.com/these-30-brands-are-celebrating-pride-giving-back-lgbt-community-1441707

{Embed}
https://www.newsweek.com/these-30-brands-are-celebrating-pride-giving-back-lgbt-community-1441707
50+ brands with Pride collections supporting the LGBT community
Nike, American Eagle and Disney are among the companies celebrating inclusion, equality and love for LGBT Pride month.
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/EG9V4yR4Rk3tklSS5mCgNOcmizQ2fB24NgBZ6nU7laQ/https/d.newsweek.com/en/full/1441781/hm.png


[6/1/2020 8:50 PM] yashsedai
Good for them. We are a non profit. Has absolutely nothing to do with us.


[6/1/2020 8:50 PM] 8bit_orin
Non-profit with paid membership.


[6/1/2020 8:50 PM] yashsedai
And?


[6/1/2020 8:51 PM] 8bit_orin
And reaching out to the local community encourages membership. The same as businesses using pride merchandise to encourage sales.


[6/1/2020 8:52 PM] yashsedai
So do so without messing with DMS's logo, IDGAF.


[6/1/2020 8:52 PM] yashsedai
DMS the org has no business doing that.


[6/1/2020 8:53 PM] yashsedai
DMS the org has no business alienating anyone at this point...


[6/1/2020 8:53 PM] 8bit_orin
I don't think the logo has actually changed. I believe it's just a image on the Discord.


[6/1/2020 8:54 PM] yashsedai
Hence why we are talking about it here


[6/1/2020 8:54 PM] 8bit_orin
I small sign of solidarity for the day and for the moment.


[6/1/2020 8:54 PM] yashsedai
what does the flag have to do with the moment?


[6/1/2020 8:55 PM] 8bit_orin
June is pride month in the US


[6/1/2020 8:55 PM] 8bit_orin
Among other several holidays recognized this month.


[6/1/2020 8:55 PM] yashsedai
Why does the DMS logo need to be involved in pride?


[6/1/2020 8:55 PM] yashsedai
It doesn't represent the org or it's opinion...


[6/1/2020 8:55 PM] yashsedai
It only serves to divide.


[6/1/2020 8:56 PM] pixle.craft
hey everyone this is Michael jumping in


[6/1/2020 8:56 PM] pixle.craft
im really glad you asked the question


[6/1/2020 8:57 PM] pixle.craft
i do  think this first comes down to how do you view LGBTQA?


[6/1/2020 8:57 PM] yashsedai
No it doesn't at all


[6/1/2020 8:58 PM] pixle.craft
would you care to chat i really would like to hear your openion on the matter


[6/1/2020 8:58 PM] yashsedai
I'm not stating my opinion on the matter. That is just an invitation to make it about me.


[6/1/2020 8:59 PM] michaelb5250
> DMS the org has no business alienating anyone at this point...
@yashsedai who do you think is being alienated here?

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[6/1/2020 9:00 PM] yashsedai
I dunno anyone who doesn't believe that way? Anyone that believes that DMS shouldn't have involvement in politics?


[6/1/2020 9:01 PM] pixle.craft
well next time the sapce is open id like to talk with you in leagth about this


[6/1/2020 9:01 PM] pixle.craft
we have always had really wonderful talks in the past and id like to hear your point 🙂


[6/1/2020 9:02 PM] yashsedai
Always happy to talk


[6/1/2020 9:02 PM] pixle.craft
i know its a comnplex topic so i know its hard to convay in chat


[6/1/2020 9:03 PM] pixle.craft
ok doki take care  ❤️


[6/1/2020 9:03 PM] yashsedai
you as well


[6/1/2020 10:14 PM] ex__machina
For once I agree with yashsedai. I think we should all be deeply ashamed of our sexuality.

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[6/1/2020 10:16 PM] yashsedai
hah


[6/1/2020 10:41 PM] aceat64
Wait is that Alan? 🤣


[6/1/2020 10:57 PM] judykriehn3727
I'm having a hard time comprehending how sexual orientation or identity is "politics." But them I'm old and mostly liberal...


[6/1/2020 10:59 PM] aceat64
I'm libertarian and I made the server image change


[6/1/2020 11:17 PM] yashsedai
So why do you think it's appropriate to use the DMS logo for this?


[6/1/2020 11:24 PM] ex__machina
Can I suggest that liberalism demands of us that we tolerate, while progressivism requires that we validate.


[6/1/2020 11:25 PM] yashsedai
by that logic you would be tolerant of people who don't share the same opinion


[6/1/2020 11:26 PM] ex__machina
Definitely


[6/1/2020 11:34 PM] ex__machina
If you decide not to be deeply ashamed, we can still live on the same planet.


[6/1/2020 11:38 PM] michaelb5250
'I'm uncomfortable' is a bad reason to avoid a conversation.


[6/1/2020 11:40 PM] yashsedai
this isn't about a conversation


[6/1/2020 11:40 PM] yashsedai
its about implying that DMS supports one cause or another, has bias one way or another.


[6/1/2020 11:41 PM] michaelb5250
Well, as far as discord goes I think that the support is pretty clear.


[6/1/2020 11:43 PM] yashsedai
discord can support all they want, leave dms logo out of it


[6/1/2020 11:43 PM] yashsedai
in case you haven't noticed, thats my issue


[6/1/2020 11:44 PM] yashsedai
former board members of DMS know better


[6/1/2020 11:44 PM] yashsedai
so do current officers


[6/1/2020 11:45 PM] draco_the_drake
What is your opinion on "Deliberate misgendering. This includes deadnaming or persistently using a pronoun that does not correctly reflect a person's gender identity" ?


[6/1/2020 11:47 PM] michaelb5250
No it seems like the logo is just a way to avoid talking about how you aren't comfortable with the support. If the logo goes away this whole conversation does to, and we can all go back to pretending everything is fine. But like I said, that's a bad way to avoid the discussion


[6/1/2020 11:49 PM] yashsedai
Riiiight... so you can make it how I'm intolerant or some ..ism... uhuh


[6/1/2020 11:49 PM] yashsedai
It didn't need to happen.


[6/1/2020 11:52 PM] yashsedai
Folks can play dumb about how this isn't a political statement all they want. You wouldn't do it for a religion....


[6/1/2020 11:56 PM] draco_the_drake
Sure ... we've put up Christmas Trees before


[6/2/2020 12:02 AM] michaelb5250
I mean if you had asked me like 4 years ago I probably would've left the server when they made that change. I would've preached for hours that I accepted people and it's all cool, but I know that flag would've made me really uncomfortable. I would've (and I did) made the same argument 'we don't need to be involved' and 'if we just pretend it was never an issue it'll go away'.

No one does it for Christianity in the US because, at least here, they haven't had historical struggles. When someone tells you theyre a Christian the default reaction is pretty nuetral. Growing up, if someone introduced themselves as gay, oh man that was not ok at all.

I can't speak for the admins, but to me all it's trying to say is that we're past that behavior. And I think that's a perfectly reasonable (and not at all political) statement to make.

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[6/2/2020 12:05 AM] draco_the_drake
I agree with that @michaelb


[6/2/2020 12:07 AM] yashsedai
I'm not following the if we just pretend it was never an issue it will go away...I'm not saying that in the least. I'm still looking for someone to explain to me why the DMS logo and the pride flag need to be combined and displayed as if DMS supports it. That is not what DMS is about, at all. I keep seeing excuses made about why it is ok.


[6/2/2020 12:08 AM] yashsedai
The claim keeps being made its unofficial, well then don't use the logo if you can't use it as it is.


[6/2/2020 12:10 AM] michaelb5250
> It's not about whether you believe a certain way or not, just abstain from it there doesn't need to be anyone having an issue...

That's what I'm referring too, maybe I misunderstood what you meant.


[6/2/2020 12:11 AM] themitch22


{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/717243975211417640/41X7Pb1cmCL._AC_.jpg?ex=67b95c81&is=67b80b01&hm=00b7b3da026e1ddc67644adec93015744dca38abfa330801fa4deda25c494a57&


[6/2/2020 12:11 AM] yashsedai
oh the irony mitch


[6/2/2020 12:38 AM] axeonos


{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/717250707299762186/FB_IMG_1586913815159.jpg?ex=67b962c6&is=67b81146&hm=820f46e8891bf59e5530806543411a2b7981d7aa286022b0f556efcaa2d2c8bd&


[6/2/2020 12:46 AM] aceat64
The owner of the copyright for the logo approves of this variant


[6/2/2020 12:47 AM] aceat64
It's released under CC BY-SA 3.0


[6/2/2020 12:53 AM] toenolla
Lol you can say my name.


[6/2/2020 12:53 AM] aceat64
Legally I think I have to


[6/2/2020 12:53 AM] aceat64
Logo is by @Toenolla


[6/2/2020 12:54 AM] toenolla
XD


[6/2/2020 12:55 AM] ferricyanide7475
Didn't expect all this animosity from a logo color change. I don't tend to think of my partner choices as political statements.


[6/2/2020 12:56 AM] toenolla
Right? Me either.


[6/2/2020 12:56 AM] draco_the_drake
LOL @aceat64


[6/2/2020 12:58 AM] aceat64
Honestly it's a silly argument, all things are political in one way or another


[6/2/2020 12:59 AM] toenolla
Didn't we run a Edward Snowden themed car at LeMons one year?


[6/2/2020 1:00 AM] yashsedai
Toenolla, based on what I've seen you dont do much thinking at all, just reporting everything in the world on the forum


[6/2/2020 1:01 AM] yashsedai
It's like everything offends you, oh how rich the irony


[6/2/2020 1:01 AM] aceat64
There's a fundamental misunderstanding on the limits of 501c3 prohibition on political activity

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[6/2/2020 1:02 AM] toenolla
Eh. I'm not the one who's been ranting all day about a palette swap.


[6/2/2020 1:03 AM] yashsedai
Doesnt take a rocket scientist to realize you dont do dumb shit like that.


[6/2/2020 1:03 AM] yashsedai
Lol I oppose this, you flag everything everyday, yep that compares


[6/2/2020 1:03 AM] aceat64
Nonprofits are not prohibited from engaging in political activity, they're prohibited in campaigning for a candidate running for office


[6/2/2020 1:03 AM] aesuna
Would it be more in the spirit of DMS to put it to a vote?


[6/2/2020 1:04 AM] yashsedai
It would be more in the spirit to not do it at all.


[6/2/2020 1:04 AM] aceat64
As far as I'm aware, pride month does not implicitly or explicitly endorse a candidate


[6/2/2020 1:05 AM] yashsedai
If you notice Andrew, I never suggested it was prohibited, only bad form due to alienating your customer base...


[6/2/2020 1:06 AM] yashsedai
No reason to show bias either way


[6/2/2020 1:06 AM] ferricyanide7475
DMS has a higher than average LGBT count.


[6/2/2020 1:07 AM] yashsedai
Yes it could be 7 or 8 percent


[6/2/2020 1:07 AM] ferricyanide7475
With plenty of allies


[6/2/2020 1:07 AM] yashsedai
Over the 2.5 percent state average


[6/2/2020 1:08 AM] toenolla
True, though we don't have to be super queer ourselves to be accepting.


[6/2/2020 1:08 AM] yashsedai
This isnt about acceptance


[6/2/2020 1:08 AM] yashsedai
You keep trying to make it that


[6/2/2020 1:11 AM] aceat64
It actually is about acceptance, and arguably it's also good marketing


[6/2/2020 1:11 AM] toenolla
That's..... Exactly what pride is about. Inclusion.


[6/2/2020 1:11 AM] yashsedai
Except DMS doesnt make those kinds of statements


[6/2/2020 1:12 AM] yashsedai
It has no reason to be involved


[6/2/2020 1:12 AM] yashsedai
It's about tools etc


[6/2/2020 1:12 AM] aceat64
That's not historically true of DMS


[6/2/2020 1:12 AM] toenolla
I can't wait to hear what Freddy thinks it's about.


[6/2/2020 1:13 AM] ferricyanide7475
LGBT people are a lot less hesitant about something if they know they will be welcome


[6/2/2020 1:14 AM] aceat64
DMS use to make all kinds of statements that could be considered political in nature


[6/2/2020 1:14 AM] ferricyanide7475
I wasn't there in the early days, but i feel like I remember hearing that out of 100 members only 5 were women, of which none were natural born women


[6/2/2020 1:14 AM] toenolla
Loads. A lot that I didn't agree with.


[6/2/2020 1:14 AM] yashsedai
Well sorry to say the old guard is gone


[6/2/2020 1:14 AM] yashsedai
Ain't the current reality


[6/2/2020 1:15 AM] aceat64
Anyone remember the drones "graffiti"? Designed to evoke discussion about the surveillance state


[6/2/2020 1:15 AM] ferricyanide7475
I ain't seeing the majority agree with you


[6/2/2020 1:15 AM] yashsedai
I dont care about a majority


[6/2/2020 1:15 AM] toenolla
The first were Alyssa, me, Shona and Nicole iirc.


[6/2/2020 1:15 AM] aceat64
> I wasn't there in the early days, but i feel like I remember hearing that out of 100 members only 5 were women, of which none were natural born women
@ferricyanide 

That's very incorrect


[6/2/2020 1:16 AM] ferricyanide7475
Ah then i was told incorrectly.


[6/2/2020 1:17 AM] aceat64
Nicole, my wife, was on the very first board


[6/2/2020 1:17 AM] toenolla
I'm not saying we had an easy time of it in the early days. There were some board members who were...very...unwelcoming. They didn't last.


[6/2/2020 1:17 AM] yashsedai
Unwelcoming how


[6/2/2020 1:17 AM] ferricyanide7475
don't give him any ideasx


[6/2/2020 1:17 AM] aceat64
There are views expressed by some that would be today called incel


[6/2/2020 1:18 AM] yashsedai
Lol


[6/2/2020 1:18 AM] aceat64
DMS was very fringe back then, and not always in a good way lol


[6/2/2020 1:19 AM] toenolla
It's only been up from there.


[6/2/2020 1:19 AM] axeonos
So are we changing the logo to red white and blue next month? Red and green in December... or is this a one time thing?


[6/2/2020 1:20 AM] aceat64
I'll consider Halloween


[6/2/2020 1:20 AM] toenolla
Do we still have photos of that DMS logo jack-o'-lantern someone made?


[6/2/2020 1:21 AM] aceat64
I've got an archive somewhere, too tired to look now


[6/2/2020 1:22 AM] toenolla
I'll say this, when I designed it I was trying to make something that was flexible. I'm really glad to see all the creative takes people have had on the logo over the years.


[6/2/2020 1:27 AM] aceat64
I think having different colors for each committee was really useful too


[6/2/2020 1:28 AM] aceat64
Same logo, but individualized to each group


[6/2/2020 1:32 AM] toenolla
Fun fact... There's an electric plug in the negative space on the logo, and the border is the core. Originally the idea was to have the cord plug into different tools representative of different areas, but we dropped it due to time constraints.


[6/2/2020 1:32 AM] toenolla
The border is the cord. Cord. Dumb autocorrect.


[6/2/2020 1:42 AM] toenolla
As for holidays... Heck yeah do it up like a Google doodle


[6/2/2020 1:46 AM] yashsedai
Draco the rule enforcer, that shit is rich


[6/2/2020 1:46 AM] yashsedai
More like Draco the alt truth master


[6/2/2020 1:47 AM] aceat64
Is he still here? I've had him blocked for a while now


[6/2/2020 1:48 AM] yashsedai
He is unfortunately


[6/2/2020 1:48 AM] yashsedai
I havent read his shit here, he was whining on talk saying he didnt ever say stan shouldnt be punished


[6/2/2020 1:50 AM] aceat64
I'm still waiting to know what the math is for hours volunteered to dollars you're allowed to take


[6/2/2020 1:50 AM] yashsedai
Haha


[6/2/2020 1:54 AM] yashsedai
I'm sure in @Draco mind the hour to dollar number is low


[6/2/2020 1:54 AM] yashsedai
Cause kumbaya


[6/2/2020 1:54 AM] yashsedai
I bet he figures dms should just pay you to be a member cause reasons


[6/2/2020 1:59 AM] yashsedai
Maybe Cairenn will give a speech about it


[6/2/2020 1:59 AM] yashsedai
Even better he can get the bylaws group back together and make it official. Wait wait, that wont ever happen


[6/2/2020 2:00 AM] yashsedai
Too much fireball


[6/2/2020 2:03 AM] yashsedai
And mensa


[6/2/2020 2:35 AM] draco_the_drake
@aceat64  .... Take nothing and feel no pain.


[6/2/2020 2:38 AM] draco_the_drake
Stan is banned ... get on with your life .. I have


[6/2/2020 2:38 AM] draco_the_drake
I said as much in a PM to Freddy earlier


[6/2/2020 7:35 AM] nullinterface
@aceat64 I'm also waiting for my *DMS volunteer hours refund*


[6/2/2020 7:36 AM] michaelb5250
https://media.tenor.com/images/ae8a776758818a6754a70696130b52f9/tenor.gif

{Embed}
https://media.tenor.com/images/ae8a776758818a6754a70696130b52f9/tenor.gif
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/WH7PdkRcZteXyOTfuCrnsuyTwHqdfD6aXb71IgUxI2w/https/media.tenor.com/images/ae8a776758818a6754a70696130b52f9/tenor.gif


[6/2/2020 7:38 AM] nullinterface
Or was there special additional rate for hours spent in the common room I missed out on?

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[6/2/2020 1:34 PM] anutterbutter


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[6/2/2020 1:37 PM] toenolla
Trippy!


[6/2/2020 1:37 PM] anutterbutter
Fun with lights


[6/2/2020 8:17 PM] dawsmart
Oh NOW I see the cord.  Neat!


[6/3/2020 1:04 AM] mizgeek
I’m behind... 
My opinion isn’t important, but I like a pride logo for this month...
And what’s wrong with Mensa?


[6/3/2020 1:09 AM] aceat64
I've only ever seen one kind of person brag about being in mensa


[6/3/2020 1:09 AM] aceat64
And every time I have doubted their claim lol


[6/3/2020 1:10 AM] mizgeek
It’s not always a brag... just an explanation for our weirdness. This also explains a lot...

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[6/3/2020 1:12 AM] mizgeek
So which makes me stranger? 😁


[6/3/2020 1:22 AM] yashsedai
Caireen makes all sort of claims about being a mensa member...


[6/3/2020 1:22 AM] yashsedai
Bahhahaha


[6/3/2020 1:34 AM] doug.emes
I haven't renewed my dues in year, but I was in mensa for over a decade and attended the national convention whenit was in houston as a young adult

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[6/3/2020 1:37 AM] mizgeek
I’ve been in Mensa off and on since 1979. When I moved back to Dallas in 2009, I thought it would help me get over California. It didn’t, but I’ve made some good friends. I’m in FireHouse which is all the black sheep of Mensa. 😁


[6/3/2020 1:37 AM] mizgeek
National Convention is in Houston again in 2021. I’m hoping to go.

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[6/3/2020 8:21 AM] kenpurcell
Funny quote ```The first thing you need to know is that no one has a good reason for joining Mensa. Pretty much anyone who tries to join a high-IQ society does so, ultimately, because he or she is an insufferable jerk. ```  https://www.washingtonian.com/2013/12/05/talk-nerdy-to-me-my-year-in-mensa/

{Embed}
Sophie Gilbert
https://www.washingtonian.com/2013/12/05/talk-nerdy-to-me-my-year-in-mensa/
Talk Nerdy to Me: My Year in Mensa | Washingtonian (DC)
The first thing you need to know is that no one has a good reason for joining Mensa. Pretty much anyone who tries to join a high-IQ society does so, ultimately, because he or she is an insufferable jerk. Maybe...
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/1JDYT2EjyOajJve46o6WyKnSyEAu_LI8QrjI0IVHUXA/https/www.washingtonian.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/112513-mensa-sophie-1.jpg


[6/3/2020 9:59 AM] Deleted User
I think when things are too negative for too long, it creates a thirst for positivity. I think if someone were to run and completely ignore all the bullshit and just state a positive vision, they would do very well. If they're able to answer the clique's bait and disingenuous criticism with a positive vision, and just kind of rise above it, people would be happy to leave all the bullshit behind.


[6/3/2020 10:10 AM] themitch22
IQ tests are not something I'd want to judge a person on. I do believe book knowledge and street knowledge have their place, just being able to solve puzzles and have spacial skills just makes you a better engineer or programmer.


[6/3/2020 10:15 AM] quattroquattro
@themitch22 or a better gameshow contestant


[6/3/2020 10:29 AM] themitch22
Yeah I still can't get more than like 10 jeopardy questions


[6/3/2020 11:49 AM] Deleted User
If the message of the logo is to show support of LGBTQ+ sexuality, I think it might be misleading since some people here are not welcoming of them. If I were a Christian who believed that gay sex was immoral, I would not want my views to be misconstrued by such a message because I'm associated with the space.

To be clear, I think that hateful, intolerant speech on the basis of sexuality should not be tolerated. I would argue that the logo change  while not hateful, expresses intolerance on the basis of religion. It can be reasonably interpreted to mean that "we are a group of people who support LGBTQ+ sexualities"

I'm only going to respond to arguments against what I'm saying. Not ad hom attacks, nor ad hom fallacies, nor identity politics, nor arguments against a strawman.


[6/3/2020 12:03 PM] jswilson64
I think making policy on the basis of not offending bigots is a bad look. But that's just me.

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[6/3/2020 12:03 PM] mizgeek
Obviously my main talent is I’m good at bubble tests. Journalists often join Mensa to tear it down. Bitter and cynical crosses all IQs.

Many of us enjoy it because in any conversation, we don’t have to prove our intelligence. All of us are “smart.” There are jerks in every group... (I’m looking at you, Talk.)

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[6/3/2020 12:12 PM] draco_the_drake
As far as I'm aware, someone else could create another Discord Server and modify the logo with Christmas Trees if they wanted to.   The logo is creative commons.  It really isn't DMS doing it.  The board didn't decide, there was no vote.  It is Pearce's server and he can do what he likes but so can you.   That is one of the things I love about DMS.


[6/3/2020 12:14 PM] canibalcrab
The logo also hasn't been altered


[6/3/2020 12:14 PM] canibalcrab
As there's no official colors

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[6/3/2020 12:23 PM] draco_the_drake
That said, I agree it is intolerance of some beliefs.  No argument on that point.  One of our missions is to "Promote scientific, cultural, and artistic advancement."  I think exploring the LGBTQ+ culture in this way, fits within our mission.


[6/3/2020 12:25 PM] canibalcrab
I think we can leave religion in the past and be better for it. We saw how it gets used just recently this week


[6/3/2020 12:25 PM] canibalcrab
That's just politics tho. Not DMS politics


[6/3/2020 12:28 PM] draco_the_drake
I'm not keen on organized religion.   People can believe whatever they want, though.   It is when they start telling me that I have to follow their beliefs, or else...  that we have an issue.


[6/3/2020 12:51 PM] draco_the_drake


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[6/3/2020 2:33 PM] yashsedai
@pearce really?


[6/3/2020 2:33 PM] yashsedai
I'm guessing you don't know much about the history of that church and US presidents....


[6/3/2020 2:33 PM] yashsedai
Can't say I'm suprised


[6/3/2020 2:34 PM] yashsedai
And Draco, it seems your arguement works for lgbt as well, stick it in peoples faces and some have a problem


[6/3/2020 2:38 PM] jswilson64
@yashsedai Why are you so adamant that DMS makes sure not to piss off bigots?


[6/3/2020 2:39 PM] yashsedai
Why are you so adamant that you attempt to piss off people that don't believe in it?


[6/3/2020 2:39 PM] yashsedai
It's kinda cute that you would label someone a bigot for not agreeing


[6/3/2020 2:39 PM] jswilson64
"believe in" what?


[6/3/2020 2:39 PM] yashsedai
haha nice try


[6/3/2020 2:39 PM] jswilson64
you said it, not me


[6/3/2020 2:40 PM] jswilson64
did you not understand the words you typed?


[6/3/2020 2:40 PM] yashsedai
I perfectly do, I also understand what you are about.


[6/3/2020 2:40 PM] jswilson64
please enlighten me


[6/3/2020 2:40 PM] yashsedai
Nah


[6/3/2020 2:40 PM] yashsedai
Not gonna play that game


[6/3/2020 2:41 PM] yashsedai
Oh the irony...tolerance...


[6/3/2020 2:41 PM] jswilson64
"You have to tolerate my hatred!"


[6/3/2020 2:42 PM] yashsedai
What are you calling hatred?


[6/3/2020 2:42 PM] yashsedai
A difference of opinon is hatred?


[6/3/2020 2:43 PM] jswilson64
What is it you're saying I believe in? 
>Why are you so adamant that you attempt to piss off people that don't believe in it?
What is "it" that people don't believe in? Are you incapable of typing a noun?


[6/3/2020 2:44 PM] yashsedai
The subject of this continuing discussion?


[6/3/2020 2:45 PM] yashsedai
you claimed bigotry...


[6/3/2020 2:45 PM] toenolla
"DMS supports LGBTQ people" is just a fact.  We have explicit protections in our code of conduct, and we've had queer people in leadership from day one.


[6/3/2020 2:45 PM] jswilson64
still can't say it?


[6/3/2020 2:46 PM] jswilson64
I'd think you know what you're talking about, if you're saying people believe in it and that upsets others


[6/3/2020 2:46 PM] jswilson64
I guess you don't know what you're talking about


[6/3/2020 2:46 PM] yashsedai
@Toenolla so what if there was queer people in leadership


[6/3/2020 2:47 PM] yashsedai
So what if there are "protections", which any sane individual would see for what they are.


[6/3/2020 2:47 PM] yashsedai
Doesn't make DMS a supporting org


[6/3/2020 2:47 PM] toenolla
I realize that might leave some people conflicted, but that seems like an internal struggle.  We have a lot to offer as a community, and I think most people see that.


[6/3/2020 2:48 PM] yashsedai
I love the attempt at painting disagreement as bigotry or "internal struggle"


[6/3/2020 2:49 PM] yashsedai
lgbt has shit to do with dms


[6/3/2020 2:49 PM] yashsedai
thats like saying dms is pro black because we have black members...


[6/3/2020 2:49 PM] yashsedai
its disingenious


[6/3/2020 2:49 PM] jswilson64
Which parts of the anti-harassment policy do you feel should be revoked?


[6/3/2020 2:50 PM] yashsedai
Which parts do you feel should be removed?


[6/3/2020 2:50 PM] jswilson64
I asked you first


[6/3/2020 2:50 PM] yashsedai
Any part that forces someone to cow to the concept of some made up fantasy


[6/3/2020 2:51 PM] jswilson64
Pretty vague.


[6/3/2020 2:51 PM] yashsedai
not really


[6/3/2020 2:51 PM] jswilson64
I'll retreat to my previous position - you don't know what you're talking about.


[6/3/2020 2:51 PM] yashsedai
feel free to say that


[6/3/2020 2:51 PM] yashsedai
doesn't make it truthful or relevant


[6/3/2020 2:51 PM] toenolla
"Pro-black" what the hell?  What else is there?


[6/3/2020 2:52 PM] yashsedai
are you serious?


[6/3/2020 2:52 PM] jswilson64
You're the one unable to articulate your position with specificity, so it's obvious you either don't know what you're talking about, or you don't know how to say it?


[6/3/2020 2:52 PM] yashsedai
i can articulate my position fine


[6/3/2020 2:53 PM] yashsedai
Keep your rainbow flag religion to yourself


[6/3/2020 2:53 PM] yashsedai
i'll keep my beliefs to me


[6/3/2020 2:53 PM] jswilson64
So far we have DMS shouldn't let folks know they won't be hassled about their gender/sex/gender identity/sexuality
and now we have DMS shouldn't be pro-black


[6/3/2020 2:53 PM] jswilson64
what else do you believe


[6/3/2020 2:53 PM] yashsedai
right, you seem to fail at understanding false equivalency


[6/3/2020 2:54 PM] yashsedai
dms has no business in the latest fashion of the day, we aren't a clubhouse anymore...


[6/3/2020 2:55 PM] yashsedai
nor should we pander to ever special interest group out there, the most specific of which is a single individual


[6/3/2020 2:55 PM] yashsedai
you act as if not stating opinion make someone anti


[6/3/2020 2:55 PM] yashsedai
thats just not how logic works


[6/3/2020 2:55 PM] yashsedai
thats how social justice pressure works


[6/3/2020 2:55 PM] yashsedai
and someone obviously in the past caved to that ridiculousness


[6/3/2020 2:55 PM] jswilson64
Here's the anti-harassment policy. You can tell us specifically which parts are wrong, just type the number(s) you don't like


[6/3/2020 2:55 PM] jswilson64
Harassment is prohibited and will not be tolerated. Any person who feels they have been the victim of harassment should ask the harasser to cease the behavior, if they feel safe doing so. Members or guests asked to stop any harassing behavior are expected to comply immediately. Harassment includes the following, without limitation:

1 Offensive comments related to race, religion, gender, gender identity and expression, sexual orientation, disability, or physical appearance
2 Gratuitous sexual or obscene images or behavior in spaces where not appropriate
3 Unwelcome physical contact or sexual attention without consent or after a request to stop
4 Threats or incitement of violence towards any individual, including encouraging a person to engage in self-harm
5 Deliberate intimidation by words, gestures, body language, or menacing behavior
6 Stalking
7 Harassing photography or recording, including logging online activity for harassment purposes
8 Continued one-on-one contact or communication after requests to cease
9 Deliberate "outing" of a sensitive aspect of a person’s identity without their consent
10 Deliberate misgendering. This includes deadnaming or persistently using a pronoun that does not correctly reflect a person's gender identity


[6/3/2020 2:56 PM] jswilson64
I guess if you don't like number 1 you'll need to be specific about whether you want to be a racist, or whatnot


[6/3/2020 2:56 PM] yashsedai
see there you go again


[6/3/2020 2:56 PM] yashsedai
trying to claim that disagreeing = racism


[6/3/2020 2:56 PM] jswilson64
that's the policy. Tell us where it's wrong.


[6/3/2020 2:57 PM] yashsedai
There doesn't need to be a list...


[6/3/2020 2:57 PM] jswilson64
ok which ones would you take off the list


[6/3/2020 2:57 PM] yashsedai
lol


[6/3/2020 2:57 PM] yashsedai
you daft?


[6/3/2020 2:57 PM] yashsedai
i just said there doesn't need to be a list


[6/3/2020 2:58 PM] yashsedai
Offensive comments works...


[6/3/2020 2:58 PM] yashsedai
2 seems reasonable


[6/3/2020 2:58 PM] yashsedai
so does 3


[6/3/2020 2:59 PM] yashsedai
4 is unenforcable


[6/3/2020 2:59 PM] yashsedai
5 is unenforcable


[6/3/2020 2:59 PM] michaelb5250
> dms has no business in the latest fashion of the day, we aren't a clubhouse anymore...
Like someone pointed out above, plenty of 'not a clubhouse' businesses have decided to do exactly what we did here.


[6/3/2020 2:59 PM] jswilson64
I'd imagine there wasn't always such an extensive list but "don't make us make a rule" prevailed
"it's just a joke bro" was probably said
how about number 1, you skipped that


[6/3/2020 2:59 PM] yashsedai
6 is a legal definition


[6/3/2020 2:59 PM] yashsedai
7 is vague and unenforcable


[6/3/2020 3:00 PM] yashsedai
8 seems reasonable


[6/3/2020 3:00 PM] yashsedai
albeit not the orgs business


[6/3/2020 3:00 PM] toenolla
@jswilson64 this took years, and tons of offenses.


[6/3/2020 3:00 PM] toenolla
you're on the money


[6/3/2020 3:00 PM] jswilson64
no comment on the first item on the list,


[6/3/2020 3:00 PM] michaelb5250
Ayyy it's a gif!


[6/3/2020 3:00 PM] jswilson64
says volumes


[6/3/2020 3:00 PM] yashsedai
9 and 10 have no basis in reality


[6/3/2020 3:01 PM] yashsedai
does it now?


[6/3/2020 3:03 PM] jswilson64
I like how you're ok with "No offensive comments" being a rule but then you don't think deliberate misgendering is real and offensive


[6/3/2020 3:06 PM] jswilson64
Maybe you'd feel safer at DMS if we added "we won't hassle if you if you're an admitted bigot"  to the list


[6/3/2020 3:06 PM] yashsedai
Seems somoene might have missed that kindergarten lesson on sticks and stones.


[6/3/2020 3:06 PM] yashsedai
I'm a bigot for having a differing opinion that you don't know or understand?


[6/3/2020 3:07 PM] jswilson64
I didn't say that. I said maybe DMS should clarify that it won't allow harassment of bigots.


[6/3/2020 3:07 PM] yashsedai
lol


[6/3/2020 3:07 PM] toenolla
@pearce I like that better, the top and bottom stripes kinda got lost in the other one.


[6/3/2020 3:08 PM] jswilson64
Calling someone a name they don't want to be called is the victim's problem because "sticks and stones" - is that really where you want to stand?


[6/3/2020 3:08 PM] canibalcrab
discord does weird cropping


[6/3/2020 3:08 PM] toenolla
yeh


[6/3/2020 3:08 PM] jswilson64
Yeah that logo is better. More purply.


[6/3/2020 3:08 PM] yashsedai
@jswilson64 you act as if a rule is going to change that


[6/3/2020 3:09 PM] jswilson64
You dodged that pretty deftly.


[6/3/2020 3:10 PM] yashsedai
lemme guess, you need a safe space


[6/3/2020 3:10 PM] jswilson64
Why all the evasiveness?


[6/3/2020 3:10 PM] jswilson64
Safe space? I'm not the one triggered by a rainbow.


[6/3/2020 3:11 PM] anutterbutter
Ooo, fancy!


[6/3/2020 3:13 PM] canibalcrab
boosting the server does cool stuff, its an emoji too :dmspride:

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[6/3/2020 3:13 PM] jswilson64
nice!


[6/3/2020 3:14 PM] toenolla
nice!


[6/3/2020 3:14 PM] yashsedai
I'm triggered because I asked for it to be neutral rather than bias?


[6/3/2020 3:14 PM] toenolla
I had no idea it animated!  It only does it when you mouse over so thanks for posting the emoji


[6/3/2020 3:15 PM] jswilson64
Yes, you're triggered


[6/3/2020 3:15 PM] jswilson64
:dmspride:


[6/3/2020 3:15 PM] yashsedai
lol


[6/3/2020 3:15 PM] toenolla
I don't recognize the pink-yellow-blue one


[6/3/2020 3:16 PM] kentamanos
TIL: https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/loftlgbtcenter/pages/6555/attachments/original/1510264919/Pride_Flags_For_Sale.png?1510264919

{Embed}
https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/loftlgbtcenter/pages/6555/attachments/original/1510264919/Pride_Flags_For_Sale.png?1510264919
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/nbnS3S6bNSfEToj70WuI6KlVZ8dHd37zF9iArWryLvA/%3F1510264919/https/d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/loftlgbtcenter/pages/6555/attachments/original/1510264919/Pride_Flags_For_Sale.png


[6/3/2020 3:16 PM] toenolla
oh!


[6/3/2020 3:16 PM] jswilson64
coolio!


[6/3/2020 3:17 PM] kentamanos
I had no idea there were so many


[6/3/2020 3:18 PM] toenolla
Of course I'm familiar with the trans one. I've become a pretty active trans ally *koff* because of DMS *koff*


[6/3/2020 3:19 PM] jswilson64
Does DMS have a flagpole?


[6/3/2020 3:19 PM] toenolla
I don't think so.  We'd have to ask the landlord to put one in.


[6/3/2020 3:24 PM] kentamanos
Seeing some bigger lists now with more Googling etc. I still remember Googling "blue sticker with yellow equals sign" when I first started seeing those stickers. Was a hard thing to Google, but always saw a lot of them driving around on moving vehicles without a chance to ask about it.


[6/3/2020 3:25 PM] toenolla
yeah.  whenever you see a symbol like that, it's good to look it up.  no telling what you'll learn!


[6/3/2020 3:26 PM] toenolla
(sometimes bad stuff, mostly good stuff)


[6/3/2020 3:28 PM] nullinterface
the red background one seems to have become the new standard


[6/3/2020 3:29 PM] kentamanos
I see that one on their page etc., but I don't know if I've seen one yet.


[6/3/2020 3:29 PM] draco_the_drake
@yashsedai .. Do you think transgenders are really the gender they claim to be?


[6/3/2020 3:30 PM] canibalcrab
theres no way the landlord is putting anything out front


[6/3/2020 3:30 PM] toenolla
Didn't think so...heh


[6/3/2020 3:31 PM] toenolla
@Draco  he doesn't.  He already said as much.


[6/3/2020 3:31 PM] canibalcrab
also like 90% of the non parking space out front has those dastardly power lines really low on it

{Reactions}
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[6/3/2020 3:31 PM] nullinterface
we'd be coughing up for it


[6/3/2020 3:32 PM] draco_the_drake
I would say the pole might go on the end of the building


[6/3/2020 3:32 PM] nullinterface
probably bigger priorities for us than a flagpole (that we'd barely maintain)


[6/3/2020 3:32 PM] toenolla
low enough I can hold up a flourescent and get light, and I'm a short


[6/3/2020 3:33 PM] yashsedai
oh and btw draco, you are not a dragon either....sorry bud


[6/3/2020 3:34 PM] nullinterface
inb4 *attack helicopter*


[6/3/2020 3:35 PM] draco_the_drake
Well, you're not an anime character ... and?


[6/3/2020 3:36 PM] toenolla
hey @pearce I know you've done a lot of work already, but any chance we could get still versions of the flag emoji? Discord wants me to pay for the privilege of posting the animated one.

{Reactions}
dmspride (5) 👍

[6/3/2020 3:36 PM] yashsedai
lol draco i've never claimed to be


[6/3/2020 3:36 PM] yashsedai
you have claimed in person to be a dragon


[6/3/2020 3:37 PM] draco_the_drake
Ohhhhhhhh yes .. I remember .. Kris was making me a mask


[6/3/2020 3:38 PM] draco_the_drake
cosplay dude


[6/3/2020 3:39 PM] toenolla
Brilliant thank you!


[6/3/2020 3:39 PM] yashsedai
uhuh


[6/3/2020 3:39 PM] yashsedai
riiight


[6/3/2020 3:41 PM] draco_the_drake
If I was a dragon.. how the hell would I fit into DMS?


[6/3/2020 3:41 PM] toenolla
You could be one of those cute baby dragons


[6/3/2020 3:41 PM] draco_the_drake
😉


[6/3/2020 3:42 PM] jswilson64
Being true to my 6-year-old self, I am actually Batman


[6/3/2020 3:43 PM] nullinterface
prediction: people will alter their *fundamental form* at an increasing rate in the future as we live lives bombarded with ever more idealized imagery and have the technology to do so (relatively) cheaply and effectively


[6/3/2020 3:43 PM] canibalcrab
cyberpunk is going to be awesome


[6/3/2020 3:43 PM] toenolla
On a semi-serious note, I don't identify as any gender so I expect to fade from existence any minute now.


[6/3/2020 3:44 PM] nullinterface
more or less everything that sci-fi, comics, anime, etc have envisioned has the potential to come to pass


[6/3/2020 3:44 PM] breastiny
Human rights really seems to inconvenience a lot of people at the DMS. I'm glad the allies are loud though 😊

{Reactions}
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[6/3/2020 3:45 PM] jswilson64
I've been waiting for my flying car since about 1970


[6/3/2020 3:46 PM] canibalcrab
"wheres my jetpack"


[6/3/2020 3:47 PM] toenolla
where IS my jetpack?  I coulda sworn I left on the counter....


[6/3/2020 3:49 PM] nullinterface
to the extent that there are going to be flying cars, they're probably going to be autonomous.  and not very car-like.


[6/3/2020 3:50 PM] canibalcrab
im totally down for that


[6/3/2020 3:50 PM] canibalcrab
or like minority report style highways full of pod cars


[6/3/2020 3:51 PM] nullinterface
because barring some wild advancements in propulsion technology, it's difficult to make something heavy-duty enough for the road that also has the power to fly


[6/3/2020 3:51 PM] canibalcrab
that whole take off thing is a bitch


[6/3/2020 3:52 PM] nullinterface
along with that whole "not falling out of the sky" thing


[6/3/2020 3:52 PM] nullinterface
the FAA is mighty keen on that point


[6/3/2020 3:52 PM] draco_the_drake
I should show up sometime with a dragon mask and suit of armor ... gotta figure out the tail though


[6/3/2020 3:53 PM] draco_the_drake
I'm sure someone has plans


[6/3/2020 3:54 PM] toenolla
I could make you a moving one.  Been working on my animatronics chops.


[6/3/2020 3:54 PM] draco_the_drake
oooo that sounds cool


[6/3/2020 3:54 PM] michaelb5250
Ehh mass transport seems more practical than flying cars. High speed rail or hyperloop


[6/3/2020 3:54 PM] sinless5555
Either would be grand


[6/3/2020 3:54 PM] toenolla
I wish I could take a train to Dallas...even crappy train travel is nicer than a plane.


[6/3/2020 3:55 PM] draco_the_drake
Did they ever do that train to Austin/Houston?


[6/3/2020 3:55 PM] draco_the_drake
I know they were going to put in one


[6/3/2020 3:55 PM] canibalcrab
dallas houston is supposed to happen but is under a bunch of red tape


[6/3/2020 3:55 PM] canibalcrab
90min trip


[6/3/2020 3:55 PM] draco_the_drake
ahh figures


[6/3/2020 3:56 PM] draco_the_drake
yeah that got me excited .. do you know if it stops in Austin?


[6/3/2020 3:56 PM] jswilson64
It won't go near Austin


[6/3/2020 3:56 PM] canibalcrab
straight shot as far as i know


[6/3/2020 3:56 PM] toenolla
yeah that's kinda out of the way


[6/3/2020 3:56 PM] draco_the_drake
ok


[6/3/2020 3:56 PM] jswilson64
Stop planned for near College Station I belive


[6/3/2020 3:56 PM] michaelb5250
Yeah we were told college station would be a stop on that like years ago.


[6/3/2020 3:57 PM] draco_the_drake
Still, it would be cool to get down there and see some people


[6/3/2020 3:57 PM] michaelb5250
Which, I'm down for anything to lessen the game day traffic in college station. God that was painful.


[6/3/2020 3:58 PM] draco_the_drake
I can imagine ...


[6/3/2020 3:58 PM] draco_the_drake
There are some cool pine woods around there


[6/3/2020 3:58 PM] draco_the_drake
I love visiting nature


[6/3/2020 3:59 PM] draco_the_drake
Do you know what makerspaces are down there?  Any good ones?


[6/3/2020 4:00 PM] michaelb5250
Not after binary tree shut down in Bryan. The university has spaces for architecture and engineering students.


[6/3/2020 4:00 PM] canibalcrab
txrx is a thing in houston


[6/3/2020 4:02 PM] themitch22
@Toenolla Amtrak has a route to Dallas. But it would cost more than a flight

{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/717845776864116766/Screenshot_20200603-160036_Chrome.jpg?ex=67b8e9fa&is=67b7987a&hm=99bb5de0aa02f2bf8f14501fbadb779b04a74c305afd1c6b4b131e6ba80f2409&


[6/3/2020 4:02 PM] michaelb5250
I toured once, it looked pretty cool. They had a kitchen and a group cooking dinner that night. Plus there was some guy from cosine additive working on a clay extruder so that was fun to watch


[6/3/2020 4:03 PM] draco_the_drake
Once the train opens up .. gotta have to visit


[6/3/2020 4:04 PM] toenolla
@themitch22 no shit!  Yeah I'm gonna get on that when the quarantine lifts...whenever that is


[6/3/2020 4:04 PM] Deleted User
1 should be changed because anyone can be offended by anything.


[6/3/2020 4:06 PM] draco_the_drake
I'm just excited to get in there ... I hope we can get people back quickly


[6/3/2020 4:07 PM] draco_the_drake
I want to make this ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GAFdal_eDg

{Embed}
Prince Armory
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GAFdal_eDg
⚔️ FANTASY LEATHER HELMET - FULL TUTORIAL 🛡️ How To Craft Leather A...
Step by step instructional video for crafting a fantasy leather helmet from the new How To Craft Leather Armor series by Prince Armory.  Learn various leatherworking techniques for how to make armor and follow along with the pattern or use the tips and tricks for your other le...
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/ZUgDilgtTc8YlA8sNKxorKPsFfcZ4Fnwry18t55FQfk/https/i.ytimg.com/vi/4GAFdal_eDg/maxresdefault.jpg

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[6/3/2020 4:10 PM] Deleted User
10 should be changed. If you don’t like how someone speaks to you, ask them not to speak to you that way. If they continue to speak *to you* that way, that should fall under harassment and be against the rules. But when speaking about you to other people, it should not be against the rules to deadname you or refer to you using a pronoun with which you don’t identify.

If someone believes that you are male if and only if you have at least one Y chromosome, and female otherwise, as I do, they should be able to express that view with anyone who has not asked them to stop talking to them.


[6/3/2020 4:12 PM] draco_the_drake
Raffi, are you confusing sex with gender?


[6/3/2020 4:13 PM] draco_the_drake
Many people understand them to be different.  One being biological and the other mental.


[6/3/2020 4:13 PM] draco_the_drake
or an identity


[6/3/2020 4:18 PM] jswilson64
>1 should be changed because anyone can be offended by anything.
@DJ Vance what should be changed about it?


[6/3/2020 4:19 PM] jswilson64
Here's the first item in the harassment policy again to save scrolling:
1 Offensive comments related to race, religion, gender, gender identity and expression, sexual orientation, disability, or physical appearance


[6/3/2020 4:19 PM] draco_the_drake
But I am all for simplifying the rules if we can ... 25 thousand words is a bit much for anyone to read and understand and that is non-committee rules/policies


[6/3/2020 4:23 PM] quattroquattro
On the jet pack thing, drivers have enough problems with left, right, forward and back. I don't want to add up, down, pitch and yaw. Jet packs are a bad idea

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[6/3/2020 4:25 PM] canibalcrab
That's why I'm good with fully autonomous


[6/3/2020 4:25 PM] canibalcrab
Honestly I don't even want to own the vehicle

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[6/3/2020 4:26 PM] draco_the_drake
Is everything political now?  Even Jet packs? 😛


[6/3/2020 4:27 PM] nullinterface
I've got my doubts that the first generation**s** of autonomous automobiles will be private cars for most


[6/3/2020 4:28 PM] draco_the_drake
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/driverless-trucks-being-tested-on-public-roads-60-minutes-2020-03-13/


[6/3/2020 4:55 PM] toenolla
@Deleted User Some humans actually have a natural insensitivity to testosterone, and will always be born physically female even if they have a Y chromosome.  Are they men?


[6/3/2020 4:56 PM] toenolla
(Sorry, I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, but this is one of my favorite biology facts.)


[6/3/2020 4:57 PM] toenolla
(Along with the fact that you can make lobsters think up is down by feeding them iron filings and exposing them to a magnetic field.)


[6/3/2020 4:58 PM] michaelb5250
_goes to buy a lobster_

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👆 thatsbait

[6/3/2020 4:58 PM] toenolla
it also works with crayfish, if you don't have a big tank


[6/3/2020 4:59 PM] michaelb5250
Did you mean crawfish? 😛


[6/3/2020 4:59 PM] yashsedai
that would make them mutants....


[6/3/2020 5:00 PM] toenolla
it turns out lobster really does stick to magnet https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hzBh0J1YFU

{Embed}
Noah Ross
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hzBh0J1YFU
Lobster Magnet
This is the old flash cartoon "Lobster Magnet".
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/TRjxOfz8R-Bj0invc4C4x0fXzItY4jeartjIgMh_mhw/https/i.ytimg.com/vi/0hzBh0J1YFU/hqdefault.jpg


[6/3/2020 5:02 PM] toenolla
ah, but mutant men or mutant women?


[6/3/2020 5:02 PM] yashsedai
mutant men....


[6/3/2020 5:04 PM] toenolla
would you call them "sir"?


[6/3/2020 5:04 PM] toenolla
or "he" or whatever?


[6/3/2020 5:04 PM] yashsedai
Depends


[6/3/2020 5:04 PM] toenolla
@michaelb I can see a duel is in order lol


[6/3/2020 5:04 PM] yashsedai
If I was unsure I'd likely go with whatever made the most sense


[6/3/2020 5:06 PM] toenolla
and you'd figure out what makes the most sense by....


[6/3/2020 5:07 PM] yashsedai
context clues?


[6/3/2020 5:07 PM] yashsedai
it's not lost on me what you are saying, i have no reason to be anything but courteous to most people


[6/3/2020 5:08 PM] toenolla
right.  so you'd look at her name, her body, the way she dresses, how other people address her etc.


[6/3/2020 5:08 PM] yashsedai
Usually yep


[6/3/2020 5:10 PM] toenolla
Exactly.  That's all anybody wants.


[6/3/2020 5:11 PM] yashsedai
ok?


[6/3/2020 5:11 PM] yashsedai
I'm not following the issue?


[6/3/2020 5:11 PM] yashsedai
just because I don't support a movement doesn't mean i oppose it


[6/3/2020 5:12 PM] yashsedai
Thats the issue here


[6/3/2020 5:12 PM] yashsedai
nobody can seem to put their head around


[6/3/2020 5:12 PM] toenolla
Well, I was originally talking to Raffi


[6/3/2020 5:12 PM] yashsedai
he's not wrong though


[6/3/2020 5:12 PM] yashsedai
she's still a dude


[6/3/2020 5:12 PM] yashsedai
but nobody is making an issue of it


[6/3/2020 5:13 PM] yashsedai
if they do, it's on them


[6/3/2020 5:13 PM] yashsedai
thats my issue, the movement seeks to make it everyone's problem


[6/3/2020 5:13 PM] yashsedai
it's not


[6/3/2020 5:13 PM] toenolla
Sorry, I thought we were talking about the code of conduct.


[6/3/2020 5:16 PM] breastiny
Human rights is everyone's problem. Everyone has to right to be treated humanely. Being supportive of that should be innate. Being proud of our differences should be celebrated and not shoved to the side or under a rug to make white or cis or heterosexuals feel comfortable.

{Reactions}
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[6/3/2020 5:17 PM] breastiny
They don't have a reason to feel uncomfortable by homosexuality or transgender but they do and then oppress those people for making them feel the jibblies. That's what we're fighting against


[6/3/2020 5:18 PM] yashsedai
Sorry, you don't get to tell people that they have to believe that someone is xyz now because thats how they feel


[6/3/2020 5:18 PM] yashsedai
Its a feeling


[6/3/2020 5:18 PM] yashsedai
It doesn't make it reality


[6/3/2020 5:19 PM] toenolla
Personally, I don't see the difference, socially, between someone who was born an XY female, assigned female at birth through surgery, or who decided to transition later in life.  What matters is who they are now.


[6/3/2020 5:19 PM] breastiny
You don't have to believe anything, but you should want to accept someone for who they are regardless of your beliefs if it doesn't harm you


[6/3/2020 5:20 PM] yashsedai
Again, no you don't have to accept anything. Thats whats at hand here. If you don't do x then you are blah blah blah


[6/3/2020 5:20 PM] yashsedai
fuck that noise


[6/3/2020 5:20 PM] yashsedai
You wanna delude yourself great, don't expect the rest of us to have to uphold the delusion if we so choose not to


[6/3/2020 5:21 PM] yashsedai
You can't be what you aren't. Same way I can't identify as a 50yr old.


[6/3/2020 5:22 PM] draco_the_drake
Freddy .. you can call me a human if you want


[6/3/2020 5:22 PM] Deleted User
I think gender and sex are the same. I understand that some people disagree.

I think there are three things: gender, physical attributes associated with gender, and gender roles. I’ve given my definition of gender. Physical attributes typically associated with gender, like height, pitch of voice, presence of different sex organs, are not gender, but there is a relationship in that gender usually has a predictable effect on those because of the different hormones that fetuses are exposed to. Gender roles in a group are the expected attributes and behaviors for different genders. Those are the definitions I’m working with.

@jswilson64#4805 it should be changed to limit the kinds of comments that fall under harassment so that not all comments that offend someone that are related to those topics are against the policy.


[6/3/2020 5:22 PM] yashsedai
Draco I'll just call you a pedant


[6/3/2020 5:22 PM] breastiny
You don't have to do anything, I'm saying as a good human being you should want to support other humans. You saying that you don't let's everyone know you are an unempathetic, unsympathetic person. If you want to be known as that that's fine but you will not stomp out other people's willingness and drive to support humans.


[6/3/2020 5:22 PM] draco_the_drake
Did I win Raffi's award back then?


[6/3/2020 5:23 PM] toenolla
Regardless, while you're at DMS you have to follow the code of conduct.


[6/3/2020 5:24 PM] yashsedai
@Tinkerpunk/Lola wrong, you don't get to set the bar about how people should behave or think. Thats what the issue is here. Either think your way or you are bad.


[6/3/2020 5:24 PM] yashsedai
Where is the tolerance there....


[6/3/2020 5:24 PM] Deleted User
@Toenolla I’ve already answered your question


[6/3/2020 5:25 PM] breastiny
Why don't you want everyone to have what you have? The bar is that you don't want other people to have the freedoms and comfort you do which is selfish and unsympathetic


[6/3/2020 5:26 PM] yashsedai
HAHA, I can't control what people feel. That's where you are stumbling. You think that by my affirmation its going to make it all better. The problem is inside.


[6/3/2020 5:26 PM] Deleted User
Relevant biology fact: regardless of what genitalia you have, you don’t have a penis and vagina both capable of reproducing.


[6/3/2020 5:26 PM] draco_the_drake
I can control what people feel ... I'm a Dragon!


[6/3/2020 5:27 PM] yashsedai
I'm not obligated to do shit, nor is anyone else. The concept that you are going to guilt them socially into it is bs.


[6/3/2020 5:27 PM] toenolla
@Deleted User I'm just checking.  I was hoping maybe we could have a discussion about it.


[6/3/2020 5:28 PM] toenolla
Do you have to be fertile?  Do women stop being women after menopause, for instance?


[6/3/2020 5:29 PM] toenolla
Also I'm not sure that's entirely true but it's been a while since I took biology.


[6/3/2020 5:29 PM] yashsedai
Chromosomes.....


[6/3/2020 5:30 PM] Deleted User
@Toenolla No


[6/3/2020 5:32 PM] toenolla
So someone born intersex can be both.


[6/3/2020 5:32 PM] toenolla
@yashsedai when did you last look at your chromosomes?


[6/3/2020 5:32 PM] yashsedai
hrm, i look every day you didnt know?


[6/3/2020 5:33 PM] yashsedai
i have to check


[6/3/2020 5:33 PM] toenolla
You have a gene mapping setup at home?


[6/3/2020 5:33 PM] yashsedai
make sure they didnt change


[6/3/2020 5:34 PM] toenolla
No, you haven't.  What you've seen is your body.  Your body is not your chromosomes.


[6/3/2020 5:34 PM] yashsedai
lol


[6/3/2020 5:34 PM] yashsedai
whats your point?


[6/3/2020 5:34 PM] yashsedai
im not following?


[6/3/2020 5:35 PM] toenolla
Well, how could you know anyone else's?


[6/3/2020 5:35 PM] yashsedai
I never claimed to?


[6/3/2020 5:35 PM] yashsedai
But see here is where the problem begins


[6/3/2020 5:35 PM] toenolla
Then why did you say "chromosomes" up there?


[6/3/2020 5:36 PM] yashsedai
biology.....


[6/3/2020 5:36 PM] yashsedai
this isn't hard


[6/3/2020 5:36 PM] yashsedai
You literally can't change your gender


[6/3/2020 5:36 PM] Deleted User
@Toenolla intersex can have both, but cannot have both that are capable of reproducing.


[6/3/2020 5:37 PM] toenolla
@Deleted User so is an intersex person a man, or a woman?


[6/3/2020 5:37 PM] yashsedai
whats a man and a woman


[6/3/2020 5:37 PM] Deleted User
They are male if and only if they have at least one Y chromosome, otherwise they are female.


[6/3/2020 5:37 PM] toenolla
Exactly!


[6/3/2020 5:38 PM] toenolla
er, @yashsedai exactly


[6/3/2020 5:38 PM] toenolla
intersex people have Y chromosomes


[6/3/2020 5:38 PM] yashsedai
with the statistical insignificance of intersex humans that is really not what is up for debate


[6/3/2020 5:38 PM] yashsedai
its about social constructs


[6/3/2020 5:39 PM] toenolla
However, many are castrated at birth and grow up female.  And a lot of them are pretty ticked off about that.


[6/3/2020 5:40 PM] toenolla
@yashsedai but you just said it was about biology.


[6/3/2020 5:40 PM] yashsedai
i referred to raffi's message yes


[6/3/2020 5:40 PM] yashsedai
what does castration at birth have to do with biology?


[6/3/2020 5:40 PM] yashsedai
at that point parents made a choice


[6/3/2020 5:41 PM] toenolla
Oh, do you have raffi blocked?  I think you're missing some bits.


[6/3/2020 5:41 PM] toenolla
He said that a Y chromosome is what makes you male.


[6/3/2020 5:41 PM] Deleted User
I think it’s great when people who don’t fit into either gender role refuse to conform. I think it’s courageous. It’s a difficult road to go down. I love it when individuals express their identity and flourish, when they are comfortable with who they are.

{Reactions}
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[6/3/2020 5:42 PM] toenolla
@yashsedai sorry, I misread


[6/3/2020 5:42 PM] draco_the_drake
Perhaps I really should identify as a Dragon then .... hmmm ... fun to play with that notion though


[6/3/2020 5:44 PM] toenolla
You do you, my man.  It's a lot easier for someone to identify as a gender though, seeing as generally we agree that men and women exist.


[6/3/2020 5:44 PM] Deleted User
I think it’s a very sad thing when poeple deny who they are, with their appearance, with their speech, or any expression or decision. Often this happens because of pressures to give up the beauty of the individual in favor of the safety of the group. Some LGBTQ+ people know this. So do some Christians.


[6/3/2020 5:44 PM] toenolla
Do you think trans people deny who they are?


[6/3/2020 5:45 PM] draco_the_drake
I think alot of trans people are in the closet so to speak


[6/3/2020 5:45 PM] draco_the_drake
because of social presures


[6/3/2020 5:45 PM] draco_the_drake
sad to be stuck like that


[6/3/2020 5:45 PM] Deleted User
I think some do, e.g. if they live in a town of intolerant Christians.


[6/3/2020 5:45 PM] yashsedai
lol


[6/3/2020 5:45 PM] toenolla
I know some who go incognito at the space or at work, which is sad.


[6/3/2020 5:46 PM] Deleted User
Like I said, I think that’s sad


[6/3/2020 5:46 PM] yashsedai
Let's blame the Christians now. Its obviously their fault


[6/3/2020 5:46 PM] draco_the_drake
Hey Muslims aren't fans either


[6/3/2020 5:46 PM] draco_the_drake
not all


[6/3/2020 5:46 PM] draco_the_drake
but some


[6/3/2020 5:46 PM] toenolla
@Deleted User yeah, I think we all know someone like that and how much it blows to experience it.


[6/3/2020 5:46 PM] Deleted User
It was an example, hypothetical, not a generalization.


[6/3/2020 5:47 PM] draco_the_drake
I think the keyword is intolerant


[6/3/2020 5:47 PM] Deleted User
Correct

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[6/3/2020 5:48 PM] draco_the_drake
We have had trans people feel rejected at DMS ... I know of one that will not come back because of it


[6/3/2020 5:48 PM] yashsedai
let me stop you right there


[6/3/2020 5:48 PM] toenolla
That's really sad Draco.  I didn't know. 😦


[6/3/2020 5:49 PM] Deleted User
If a trans person believes they are male, they should be able to express that in their appearance, speech, and other expressions. Same goes for Christians.


[6/3/2020 5:49 PM] yashsedai
uncomfortable people will be uncomfortable


[6/3/2020 5:49 PM] yashsedai
especially as long as they look to the external for approval


[6/3/2020 5:50 PM] yashsedai
this whole thing isn't new


[6/3/2020 5:50 PM] toenolla
Yeah, of course.  They just have to do it together.  At least when they're at DMS.


[6/3/2020 5:50 PM] yashsedai
Not at all


[6/3/2020 5:50 PM] yashsedai
It's called overcoming your fears


[6/3/2020 5:50 PM] toenolla
@yashsedai now you've lost me


[6/3/2020 5:51 PM] yashsedai
maybe i've misunderstood


[6/3/2020 5:51 PM] yashsedai
explain your statement of "they have to do it together"


[6/3/2020 5:51 PM] toenolla
exist together.  share the space. be kind.


[6/3/2020 5:52 PM] yashsedai
is that not the default of everyone?


[6/3/2020 5:52 PM] yashsedai
its a shared space


[6/3/2020 5:52 PM] yashsedai
thats a given


[6/3/2020 5:52 PM] yashsedai
being kind is up for interpretation


[6/3/2020 5:52 PM] yashsedai
what do you mean be kind?


[6/3/2020 5:52 PM] draco_the_drake
So, Freddy, do you think people should try to not purposefully offend people at DMS spaces?


[6/3/2020 5:53 PM] yashsedai
depends on the case draco


[6/3/2020 5:53 PM] yashsedai
for you, all bets are off


[6/3/2020 5:53 PM] toenolla
well that's a broad question. But specifically for trans people that means not intentionally misgendering them


[6/3/2020 5:53 PM] yashsedai
ya but thats the thing


[6/3/2020 5:53 PM] yashsedai
most people wouldn't


[6/3/2020 5:53 PM] yashsedai
and yet....


[6/3/2020 5:54 PM] yashsedai
barking at someone who misgendered another unintentionally...


[6/3/2020 5:54 PM] yashsedai
at some point you have to take responsibility


[6/3/2020 5:54 PM] toenolla
that's not what we're talking about at all


[6/3/2020 5:54 PM] yashsedai
but thats the reality


[6/3/2020 5:54 PM] toenolla
I've misgendered people unintentionally at the space.  It happens.


[6/3/2020 5:54 PM] yashsedai
in our quest to make people feel "comfortable" we've developed this overreaction


[6/3/2020 5:55 PM] yashsedai
maybe overreach is better


[6/3/2020 5:55 PM] yashsedai
if someone develops a problem with you, thats going to be an issue whatever you are


[6/3/2020 5:55 PM] toenolla
I know you think that, but that's not what the rules say.


[6/3/2020 5:55 PM] Deleted User
If I wear a shirt that states my definition of gender because I want to express my belief and I think it’s important that people feel empowered to talk about the topic, surely that will offend people. The purpose is not to offend, it’s to empower, so I’m not sure if that falls under what you’re saying, Draco. But I would be supportive of that action.


[6/3/2020 5:56 PM] yashsedai
do you know what empower means?


[6/3/2020 5:56 PM] yashsedai
to say empower insinuates they lack it


[6/3/2020 5:56 PM] yashsedai
that is not the case


[6/3/2020 5:57 PM] yashsedai
back to that whole if you don't agree you are against me


[6/3/2020 5:57 PM] toenolla
Well, according to the rules, I think there's a strong argument that you would be intentionally misgendering our trans members by wearing that shirt.


[6/3/2020 5:57 PM] Deleted User
To make them *feel* empowered


[6/3/2020 5:58 PM] yashsedai
lol wearing a shirt = misgendering people?


[6/3/2020 5:58 PM] Deleted User
That’s not misgendering. Misgendering is when you refer to someone with pronouns of a gender with which they don’t identify.


[6/3/2020 5:58 PM] yashsedai
are you serious?


[6/3/2020 5:58 PM] toenolla
Yes.  Because you're saying, ahead of time, that you don't believe they are who they say they are.


[6/3/2020 5:58 PM] Deleted User
It’s not even intent to misgender.


[6/3/2020 5:58 PM] yashsedai
no


[6/3/2020 5:58 PM] yashsedai
thats bs


[6/3/2020 5:59 PM] yashsedai
having a different opinion doesn't equal action


[6/3/2020 5:59 PM] toenolla
Like if I put up a sign saying "women are actually bats" or something. It doesn't matter that it isn't directed to one person.


[6/3/2020 5:59 PM] Deleted User
Personally, I don’t intend to misgender people. I don’t think it’s really useful to anyone. But I might wear a shirt like that.


[6/3/2020 6:00 PM] yashsedai
Doesn't equal a rule violation


[6/3/2020 6:00 PM] Deleted User
I think it would be since it’s an offensive comment


[6/3/2020 6:00 PM] yashsedai
lol you offend me raffi


[6/3/2020 6:01 PM] yashsedai
is that a rule violation?


[6/3/2020 6:01 PM] toenolla
Raffi, I assure you that if you do, you will be making trans people feel unwelcome.  With that knowledge, you should be able to understand that it's not appropriate.


[6/3/2020 6:01 PM] yashsedai
subjective rules are never gonna work like that


[6/3/2020 6:01 PM] yashsedai
there you go telling people how they should feel


[6/3/2020 6:01 PM] yashsedai
sorry but thats the core here


[6/3/2020 6:02 PM] toenolla
Do you think it wouldn't?


[6/3/2020 6:02 PM] yashsedai
depends on how mentally fragile they are


[6/3/2020 6:02 PM] yashsedai
even then, that isn't on raffi


[6/3/2020 6:02 PM] yashsedai
its on them


[6/3/2020 6:02 PM] yashsedai
he didn't make them that way


[6/3/2020 6:02 PM] yashsedai
they chose to interpret external stimuli and let it affect them a certain way


[6/3/2020 6:02 PM] toenolla
it seems like you don't believe we should have rules, then


[6/3/2020 6:02 PM] yashsedai
no


[6/3/2020 6:03 PM] yashsedai
i think we should have rules that make sense


[6/3/2020 6:03 PM] toenolla
and you know, that's fine, but we do.


[6/3/2020 6:03 PM] yashsedai
and are enforcable


[6/3/2020 6:03 PM] yashsedai
i'm not arguing that we don't?


[6/3/2020 6:03 PM] yashsedai
and it doesn't make your argument any more valid saying that either


[6/3/2020 6:04 PM] Deleted User
What if trans people actually don’t want to force people to use their pronouns and would rather be respected than condescended to? I think it’s condescending when people who agree with my definition refer to trans people using their preferred pronouns. Only reason I would do it is because the conflict outweighs the condescension.


[6/3/2020 6:04 PM] toenolla
Did you ask any trans people?


[6/3/2020 6:04 PM] Deleted User
It’s basically saying “I disagree, but I’m going to lie to you to protect your feelings”


[6/3/2020 6:04 PM] yashsedai
how about this, what if i find forced speech offensive? thats pretty much what you are saying here, i have to do x or else.


[6/3/2020 6:05 PM] toenolla
Nope.  You don't have to refer to anyone by any pronouns if you don't want to.


[6/3/2020 6:06 PM] toenolla
Just use their name.  I was having trouble getting my friend Dee's pronouns right so I just used their name for a while.


[6/3/2020 6:06 PM] draco_the_drake
We need to have a town hall meeting and discuss what this rule means "Don't merely respect each other; be excellent to each other."


[6/3/2020 6:06 PM] yashsedai
no we don't


[6/3/2020 6:07 PM] Deleted User
In a sense, you’re right, because people who agree with my definition could just avoid referring to trans people at all. I’d argue that’s not really a viable option so it really is a use of force.


[6/3/2020 6:07 PM] draco_the_drake
And have it often as new people come in


[6/3/2020 6:07 PM] draco_the_drake
and come to some understanding


[6/3/2020 6:07 PM] yashsedai
you need to ride back off into the sunset and take your crap with you


[6/3/2020 6:07 PM] yashsedai
that rule is a damn joke


[6/3/2020 6:07 PM] toenolla
It is a viable option.  Like, I know because I did it for a while.  And I'm pretty sure y'all are as smart as me.


[6/3/2020 6:08 PM] yashsedai
lol not generally a problem for me 🙂


[6/3/2020 6:08 PM] yashsedai
i hate you all equally


[6/3/2020 6:08 PM] yashsedai
therefore keep to myself 😛


[6/3/2020 6:08 PM] Deleted User
It’s still forced speech. You’re given a few options, and you’re forced to choose from those options.


[6/3/2020 6:08 PM] yashsedai
no


[6/3/2020 6:09 PM] draco_the_drake
Freddy, you are on Talk and Discord more than me ... you know you don't keep to yourself


[6/3/2020 6:10 PM] draco_the_drake
Why are you involved with a group of people you despise?


[6/3/2020 6:11 PM] yashsedai
I don't despise DMS


[6/3/2020 6:11 PM] yashsedai
just your bs


[6/3/2020 6:11 PM] draco_the_drake
You said you hate people equally ... are you saying that you just like the tools then?


[6/3/2020 6:11 PM] yashsedai
it's a joke...


[6/3/2020 6:12 PM] yashsedai
the tools are usually fine


[6/3/2020 6:12 PM] yashsedai
they don't talk back much


[6/3/2020 6:13 PM] Deleted User
Raffi voted. And it was not a proxy. He himself expressed approval of the candidate.

Raffi voted. And it was not a proxy. Raffi Raffi’s self expressed approval of the candidate.

Raffi voted. And it was not a proxy. They themself expressed approval of the candidate.

Raffi voted. And it was not a proxy. They themselves expressed approval of the candidate.


[6/3/2020 6:14 PM] toenolla
Like, Raffi, you can have a problem with it, but the code of conduct doesn't care what your principles are.


[6/3/2020 6:14 PM] toenolla
Themself is singular.


[6/3/2020 6:15 PM] Deleted User
I don’t think themself is a word, let me check


[6/3/2020 6:15 PM] draco_the_drake
It is in the south!


[6/3/2020 6:15 PM] draco_the_drake
lol


[6/3/2020 6:16 PM] Deleted User
It doesn’t really matter, I think my point is clear.


[6/3/2020 6:16 PM] draco_the_drake
You voted once?


[6/3/2020 6:17 PM] toenolla
Raffi isn't creative with their use of language.


[6/3/2020 6:17 PM] toenolla
(You can use "they" for people whose genders you don't know too, it's very useful.)


[6/3/2020 6:18 PM] toenolla
(Or as just...a neutral.)


[6/3/2020 6:20 PM] toenolla
Raffi I notice you didn't use "she" in your examples. 😉


[6/3/2020 6:20 PM] Deleted User
if you think I’m not creative with my use of language, you don’t know me.


[6/3/2020 6:26 PM] axeonos
I'm against the icon changing cause the flashing of colors effects my vision.... but thats all


[6/3/2020 6:26 PM] toenolla
Maybe Pearce can set it back to the still rainbow


[6/3/2020 6:30 PM] toenolla
Whoops @pearce


[6/3/2020 6:45 PM] aceat64
it's only animated on hover


[6/3/2020 6:47 PM] draco_the_drake
Actually on mobile it is animated all the time when choosing a server


[6/3/2020 6:47 PM] draco_the_drake
or channel


[6/3/2020 6:49 PM] toenolla
I bet if the animation slowed down it would work too


[6/3/2020 6:52 PM] axeonos
Actually on mobile its animated all the time.....


[6/3/2020 6:53 PM] aceat64
well just don't use mobile 🤣


[6/3/2020 6:53 PM] aceat64
could probably make it not loop


[6/3/2020 6:54 PM] aceat64
so it just rotates through once


[6/3/2020 6:55 PM] axeonos
SOME of us don't have that option while not at computer


[6/3/2020 6:57 PM] toenolla
I think he's joking


[6/3/2020 7:06 PM] aceat64
I am joking

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dmspride

[6/3/2020 7:13 PM] axeonos
Hard to tell


[6/3/2020 8:54 PM] kenpurcell
On Android tablet it cycles through all pride variations.


[6/3/2020 9:24 PM] nullinterface
As does Android phone


[6/3/2020 9:25 PM] canibalcrab
itll animate when you are in the server or hover over it


[6/3/2020 9:25 PM] canibalcrab
in the server* on phone


[6/3/2020 10:25 PM] eadams1971
!members


[6/3/2020 10:25 PM] dallas-makerspace#4763
There are currently 1379 members.

{Reactions}
dms

[6/4/2020 12:39 AM] doug.emes
Well, that took quite some time to read.  Now that the iconography is a solid color, branding guidelines that we frankly don't explicitly have but have inheritantly applied would match.  I appreciate the efforts made by those who worked on the image.  I'd also like everyone to understand my comments were following what corporations do with their logos.   I work for a company that has a 100% score from the HRC.  I look forward to seeing future months have updated iconography for this server.


[6/4/2020 11:26 AM] judykriehn3727
Well, just to mess with the color debate, at one of the PR meetings from hell last summer, kevin wanted to make “glitter” an official DMS color.


[6/4/2020 11:28 AM] yashsedai
well, considering its kevin...that isn't surprising.


[6/4/2020 11:28 AM] yashsedai
he isn't exactly known for the most feasible of ideas


[6/4/2020 11:29 AM] agr0090
I find it best not to comment on logos, here is the result of the last time I made that mistake

{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/718139364584063106/TqFE7nUDP8DA-SS68GAR1L_14sRMc_mVe4zCnieb32b8SBHDrHYUuxp04tY8-4ONiFW8i5xqTdBPivX-mG_K0CIPE6ns7x6EeMQW.png?ex=67b952a6&is=67b80126&hm=7fd120e4a3de244ca6d488b08447c92b4ea7b77e46b4152b01e089a5a5c60f1a&

{Reactions}
dumpsterfire 😂 😞

[6/4/2020 11:31 AM] axeonos
Not to throw stones but I wanted to change 3d fab to gold....i didn't but wanted to


[6/4/2020 11:55 AM] kenpurcell
I wanted ponies and unicorns but none arrived. 😦


[6/4/2020 1:01 PM] ferricyanide7475
Ponies are assholes.... You don't want a pony


[6/4/2020 1:01 PM] ferricyanide7475


{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/718162592828489739/86460043_10216438908069921_8513916728877514752_n.jpg?ex=67b96848&is=67b816c8&hm=8710ff68d50199fa3cbf6bfa84a0da61213543ab9d36cef9caaf6511490b3b67&


[6/4/2020 1:17 PM] yashsedai
lol


[6/4/2020 1:45 PM] kenpurcell
soooo true. My dad had horses and they were assholes, our neighbor had ponies and they were assholes X 4.


[6/4/2020 1:50 PM] jswilson64
My neighbor/landlord had horses and I went to feed them with him one time. He had a "whoop ass" stick he had to take to fend off the cranky old male who liked to try to knock him down. Or as he put it, "whack that ol' sumbitch upside the head."  Horses can be jerks. 😄


[6/4/2020 3:37 PM] ferricyanide7475
I don't think I'd own a horse I'd need a whoop ass stick for. My filly is a doll, so sweet. My gelding is a jerk, but he's getting better. His previous owner was a bit unconfident and timid and i think he used that to be a spoiled brat. That just got doted on and not have to do anything. Instead of running from me every day its like once every two weeks now. The filly will follow me around and watch what in doing and get scritches. Sometimes chews on the wheelbarrow. Ive had them about 2 months.


[6/4/2020 3:46 PM] michaelb5250
> Sometimes chews on the wheelbarrow
Yum, fresh wheelbarrow.


[6/4/2020 3:51 PM] ferricyanide7475
Giant grass eating puppy thats scared of its own shadow basically


[6/4/2020 3:54 PM] canibalcrab
There used to be 4 donkeys at my work. They would chew on my car


[6/4/2020 3:59 PM] ferricyanide7475
Yeah i wouldn't leave a car i cared about with horses


[6/4/2020 3:59 PM] ferricyanide7475
https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/ponies-in-dartmoor-lick-car-cause-1200-damage-513112

{Embed}
Rachael Turner
https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/ponies-in-dartmoor-lick-car-cause-1200-damage-513112
Wild ponies cause £1,200 worth of damage by licking car - Horse & H...
The unsuspecting driver parked his car in Dartmoor National Park to embark on a hike around the moors
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/fQ4zckiZf09MQkFkeFLGvNdthKe7MSH8g2D6725a3Ww/https/keyassets.timeincuk.net/inspirewp/live/wp-content/uploads/sites/14/2014/10/Wild_Ponies.jpg


[6/4/2020 4:03 PM] ferricyanide7475
Do we have a new election date set yet?


[6/4/2020 4:06 PM] michaelb5250
Not sure, but we're closer to the election than we've ever been!

{Reactions}
☝️

[6/4/2020 5:00 PM] ferricyanide7475
Omg


[6/4/2020 5:16 PM] canibalcrab
https://media.tenor.com/images/a0d6553db2f51c907c696cded82231ac/tenor.gif

{Embed}
https://media.tenor.com/images/a0d6553db2f51c907c696cded82231ac/tenor.gif
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/W3Y4iPFLRqWpPGxceQU1YgTYCuoeA0BfxOEbfTu1pu0/https/media.tenor.com/images/a0d6553db2f51c907c696cded82231ac/tenor.gif


[6/4/2020 6:51 PM] nullinterface
when we have an opening date we'll have a new election timeline


[6/4/2020 9:03 PM] judykriehn3727
Re: car-licking pony link: sounds like Sega Insurance is the British equivalent to Farmers Insurance with the “stranger than fiction” claims they’ve paid.


[6/5/2020 11:57 AM] apparently_weird
@AGr From a graphic design perspective I really loved that logo.


[6/5/2020 11:59 AM] apparently_weird
@judy Kriehn I believe that was the same meeting that introduced the “new design” for business cards that no one had approved. FYI, I did see a glitter logo. It was routed out and back filled with resin and multicolored glitter.


[6/5/2020 12:06 PM] mizgeek
You guys say “glitter” like it’s a bad thing. 😒


[6/5/2020 12:07 PM] michaelb5250
herpes of the craft world, right?


[6/5/2020 12:08 PM] themitch22
Glitter is only acceptable encased in resin

{Reactions}
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[6/5/2020 12:19 PM] apparently_weird
Glitter, not my cup of tea, but it has its uses. As a logo.... only a few use cases come to mind.


[6/5/2020 12:19 PM] apparently_weird
It’s also good in birthday cards. 😈


[6/5/2020 12:20 PM] draco_the_drake
Glitter tea?  Not mine either .. I do like shiny though ... but camo is my fav color


[6/5/2020 12:21 PM] mizgeek
I have put it in gifts with little Mylar shapes for neat freaks. When they finally moved years later, they were still finding it. 😈


[6/5/2020 12:22 PM] apparently_weird
I may or may not have loaded car vents with it at weddings....

{Reactions}
😆

[6/5/2020 12:23 PM] mizgeek
Oh that’s a brilliant idea!
Of course I’m happiest when things light up. Hence I have my own lighting guy. 😄


[6/5/2020 12:23 PM] draco_the_drake
We use to use tinsel on the x-mas tree ... about as bad ... tinsel and pets = everywhere


[6/5/2020 12:23 PM] mizgeek
Ah yes. Tinsel in the litter box


[6/5/2020 12:23 PM] draco_the_drake
lol yup


[6/5/2020 12:24 PM] apparently_weird
That’s crappy


[6/5/2020 12:24 PM] draco_the_drake
Fabulously crappy


[6/5/2020 12:24 PM] apparently_weird
Does it shine up the turds?


[6/5/2020 12:24 PM] draco_the_drake
No not really lol


[6/5/2020 12:25 PM] draco_the_drake
They do make a pill though that reportedly does


[6/5/2020 12:25 PM] draco_the_drake
but mainly it got into the couch and under it ..


[6/5/2020 12:26 PM] draco_the_drake
and into packing boxes


[6/5/2020 12:26 PM] apparently_weird
Regarding the damage horses did to the car reminds me of: https://youtu.be/_CQz0lL9kHw

{Embed}
lugh23
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CQz0lL9kHw
Dogs tear cop car to shreds to Benny Hill music
Good doggies
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/45sh1JZ9v5xJrPPOQIaImBiixWwy7JZ__B5-38Byj8I/https/i.ytimg.com/vi/_CQz0lL9kHw/hqdefault.jpg


[6/5/2020 12:26 PM] draco_the_drake
LOL  ... my bumper!


[6/5/2020 12:27 PM] draco_the_drake
Come home to a bunch of strange bumpers all buried half way in the yard ...


[6/5/2020 12:38 PM] apparently_weird
Come home or Came home. Somehow I can envision that being your yard Draco 🤣


[6/5/2020 12:45 PM] draco_the_drake
LOL


[6/5/2020 12:45 PM] draco_the_drake
yeah .. I blame the dog


[6/5/2020 11:20 PM] hardsuit
I liked the "fox" logo, just did not approve of the way it was brute forced. If it had been up for a vote for approval from various choices, or even just to change to it from the original logo, I would have voted for it.


[6/5/2020 11:29 PM] nullinterface
I was OK with the wrench and fox logo, but that window has long closed


[6/6/2020 6:18 PM] toenolla
I liked the design myself, but yeah we should have voted on it.


[6/6/2020 6:24 PM] draco_the_drake
I thought it was https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Regular_Member_Meeting_20160114#Minutes

{Embed}
https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Regular_Member_Meeting_20160114
Regular Member Meeting 20160114


[6/6/2020 6:27 PM] draco_the_drake
I guess it didn't get tabled but didn't get voted on either


[6/6/2020 8:46 PM] themitch22
that was a vote to vote on it at the member meeting


[6/6/2020 9:24 PM] draco_the_drake
Sorta like a Regular member meeting member meeting?


[6/6/2020 9:24 PM] draco_the_drake
😛


[6/6/2020 9:47 PM] toenolla
@Draco it's a long story I can explain over dm if you want


[6/7/2020 9:24 AM] Deleted User
In the current official logo, it's supposed to be a cable that plugs into a wall, right? If so, I'd like it to have two prongs sticking out of it.

I really like the logo though. It reminds me of a fist bump 🤜


[6/7/2020 4:42 PM] andrew5152
in this image, I've overlayed another pic of a plug in roughly the same orientation. Does this help visualize the prongs? They're facing straight up (Z Axis)...

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https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/719305224254390342/unknown.png?ex=67b8f331&is=67b7a1b1&hm=20ff36f2cab3ee2c3fdfa80e394980780282718a958a450bd0328ed50802dacd&

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[6/7/2020 4:50 PM] canibalcrab
They go sideways

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[6/7/2020 7:31 PM] toenolla
@pearce stop trying to make his head explode


[6/7/2020 7:40 PM] apparently_weird
I always saw it as a grounded plug

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https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/719350049188085830/image0.jpg?ex=67b91cf0&is=67b7cb70&hm=c9f06dfe7d32fd2798612f13aae255dced013f180c2e6397be8fd9162e2fe6f8&


[6/7/2020 7:55 PM] michaelb5250
I thought the M was the outlet and the cable wrapped around.


[6/7/2020 8:59 PM] quattroquattro
But type M plugs don't look anything like that? I'm confused 😉


[6/8/2020 9:10 AM] jswilson64
I thought it was one of these
https://www.illusionsindex.org/images/illusions/impossible-trident/Impossible-Trident.jpg

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https://www.illusionsindex.org/images/illusions/impossible-trident/Impossible-Trident.jpg
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/W8DZWM6d09ZaC5o4jaDuDse3erdj7HT-Ss1Cj52P7l8/https/www.illusionsindex.org/images/illusions/impossible-trident/Impossible-Trident.jpg

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[6/8/2020 1:26 PM] toenolla
Canonical.


[6/8/2020 1:32 PM] Deleted User
If you turn it upside down it becomes the Wokerspace

{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/719619941606752286/Screenshot_20200608-133024__01__01.jpg?ex=67b96f8b&is=67b81e0b&hm=99d8fa7b44db756f694ec69026eb660944cbd7738ffd223605cc959eb5523d86&


[6/8/2020 2:15 PM] ferricyanide7475
And for some reason i can actually see the plug better now


[6/8/2020 2:19 PM] Deleted User
true


[6/8/2020 2:22 PM] draco_the_drake
The Makerspace Trident


[6/8/2020 2:30 PM] themitch22
I see the Makerspace Illuminati


[6/8/2020 2:39 PM] draco_the_drake
I still say that the old expansion team was part of that


[6/8/2020 2:39 PM] draco_the_drake
not THE Illuminati .. but the makerspace secret society


[6/8/2020 2:43 PM] Deleted User
The Eventuallyopenspace

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https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/719637678076985405/Screenshot_20200608-133024__01__02.jpg?ex=67b8d750&is=67b785d0&hm=4e3ddbc22fe5e91bc0def58adefa4080bcc4e5ea64fcda267b291eeb41c9d320&


[6/8/2020 2:43 PM] Deleted User
3 is going to be tough


[6/8/2020 2:46 PM] themitch22
300MembersMakerspace

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[6/8/2020 2:46 PM] Deleted User
damn savage


[6/8/2020 2:48 PM] Deleted User
The 3rd Reich Space


[6/8/2020 2:48 PM] Deleted User
Literally the same colors too 😂


[6/9/2020 12:01 AM] 8bit_orin


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[6/9/2020 12:01 AM] 8bit_orin
The original colors were Purple for the M


[6/9/2020 12:29 AM] toenolla
Yeah for TEDxSMU


[6/9/2020 12:29 AM] toenolla
White and purple on black


[6/9/2020 12:43 AM] yashsedai
Dear @Draco could you just not meddle in shit for once?


[6/9/2020 12:44 AM] doug.emes
Got the tshirt

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[6/19/2020 10:20 AM] aceat64
https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/coronavirus/dallas-county-holding-emergency-meeting-over-face-mask-requirement/2391778/

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Brian Roth
https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/coronavirus/dallas-county-holding-emergency-meeting-over-face-mask-requirement/2391778/
Face Masks Now Required in Dallas County Businesses, Commissioners ...
The Dallas County Commissioners Court on Friday voted to approve requiring businesses to tell customers to wear a face mask or face a fine of up to $500.
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/ndG5QeWVl7M6PqvE-8NLErXZs2_vVdqTQLgtiE5IbQg/%3Fresize%3D1200%252C675/https/media.nbcdfw.com/2019/09/dallas-county-commissioners-meeting-face-mask.png


[6/19/2020 10:20 AM] aceat64
now if anyone complains about the masks, tell them to take it up with the county lol


[6/19/2020 11:54 AM] Deleted User
https://youtu.be/iCvmsMzlF7o

{Embed}
TED
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCvmsMzlF7o
The power of vulnerability | Brené Brown
Brené Brown studies human connection -- our ability to empathize, belong, love. In a poignant, funny talk at TEDxHouston, she shares a deep insight from her research, one that sent her on a personal quest to know herself as well as to understand humanity. A talk to share.

Get...
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/Grk6vJLJATls-KJLFRcF26fGGimifycrQDFsRvwyTbQ/https/i.ytimg.com/vi/iCvmsMzlF7o/maxresdefault.jpg


[6/19/2020 12:03 PM] andrew5152
ugh. I had my fill of Brene Brown on my first foray.
then she became assigned reading.
Seriously struggling to make it through, and hoping it gets better after chapter 2...


[6/19/2020 12:59 PM] Deleted User
Sorry to hear that. I've always disliked assigned reading. For me, it takes the fun out of it.


[6/19/2020 1:55 PM] Deleted User
I like reading/watching stuff that is well-organized and uses examples to make the argument for a high-level message. I think other people have less of a preference for it to be highly organized, and maybe want to focus more on concrete examples that support a lower-level message.


[6/19/2020 2:16 PM] yashsedai
Brene Brown doesn't have anything to say worth hearing....Just yak yak yak generalization, yak, bullshit, yak


[6/22/2020 10:10 AM] nullinterface
https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/so-now-that-we-are-open-when-is-the-election/71983/3
~~Like~~ Comment ~~Subscribe~~


[6/22/2020 12:18 PM] noble_goblin
Personally the science of happiness is one of my favorite topics that can be backed up with empirical data. 

Freddy, I think you could honestly benefit from looking into it. And I don't mean that as an insult or in a negative way.


[6/22/2020 12:48 PM] yashsedai
Except what she is touting isn't science, its some word soup she strung together and supported it with her "im a social worker, etc"


[6/22/2020 12:49 PM] yashsedai
I've read what she had to say on the subject, she literally has nothing new to say on it.


[6/22/2020 12:55 PM] noble_goblin
Did I specify her?


[6/22/2020 12:55 PM] noble_goblin
I'm pretty sure I didn't. She's not the only happiness researcher. There are plenty of others who are more based in science.


[6/22/2020 1:01 PM] yashsedai
Are you assuming I'm unhappy?


[6/22/2020 1:02 PM] yashsedai
An alternative to you what you are thinking might be that I don't suffer fools well. As has been demostrated abundantly.


[6/22/2020 1:12 PM] ferricyanide7475
People you perceive to be fools... whether they are or not i suppose is a matter of opinion


[6/22/2020 1:14 PM] yashsedai
yep, it's an opinion...


[6/22/2020 1:40 PM] ferricyanide7475
Exactly why be rude to "fools?" What does it accomplish? I doubt it suddenly makes someone no longer a fool. So what is the motivation?


[6/22/2020 2:11 PM] yashsedai
I'm generally not rude to anyone without having suffered plenty of foolish behavior from them. Just because I may believe them to be a fool doesn't mean I treat them poorly. That generally comes with exhibited behavior on a case by case basis. I do make some exceptions 🙂


[6/22/2020 2:11 PM] yashsedai
see draco and raffi sometimes


[6/22/2020 2:33 PM] canibalcrab
For instance, I'm clearly ignorant of networking stuff and make foolish assumptions about it. Freddy gives me shit for it but I don't assume my assumptions are flawless


[6/22/2020 2:34 PM] yashsedai
Difference being my giving you shit is just friendly comradery.


[6/22/2020 2:35 PM] canibalcrab
I think a lot of it boils down to everyone trying to use strict definitions to "gatcha" people


[6/22/2020 2:35 PM] canibalcrab
Like trying to define "fool"


[6/22/2020 2:36 PM] yashsedai
I used fool becuase of its use in the phrase "not suffer fools"


[6/22/2020 2:37 PM] yashsedai
It could be interchanged with pedants who have been pedantic too long, intentionally annoying individuals, people like draco who have crossed the boundary of social good into "i'm gonna do it because I think i know better than all you people"


[6/22/2020 2:39 PM] yashsedai
lol as illustrated not simple to define, subjective, etc


[6/22/2020 2:43 PM] draco_the_drake
Better? ... That is a new one.   No I just think the board is not above the law


[6/22/2020 2:46 PM] draco_the_drake
The whole legal system is full of pedants


[6/22/2020 2:49 PM] canibalcrab
But you discredit yourself everytime you try to rules lawyer something insignificant


[6/22/2020 2:50 PM] canibalcrab
Like saying everyone needs a voice in the meet the candidates


[6/22/2020 2:50 PM] canibalcrab
We didn't even have that last year. People got to submit questions and @doug.emes asked them


[6/22/2020 2:50 PM] nullinterface
to be fair, he's walked that back


[6/22/2020 2:51 PM] draco_the_drake
I was responding to Freddy s original comment "We can have any meeting any way the board wants. Go away concern troll. You have zero impact on anything."


[6/22/2020 2:52 PM] yashsedai
It's a truthful statement


[6/22/2020 2:52 PM] yashsedai
Draco has ZERO impact over anything the board does currently


[6/22/2020 2:52 PM] yashsedai
If he thinks any different he's a legend in his own mind.


[6/22/2020 2:53 PM] draco_the_drake
Im referencing the first part ... They can as long as it is legal


[6/22/2020 2:53 PM] yashsedai
You can't stop them from doing anything illegal....


[6/22/2020 2:53 PM] yashsedai
And you aren't the arbiter of legality either.


[6/22/2020 2:53 PM] draco_the_drake
All members should try to keep us from doing that


[6/22/2020 2:54 PM] draco_the_drake
Part of being.a member


[6/22/2020 2:54 PM] nullinterface
however, the realities of the rules around social distancing make an in-person election impractical to implement, thus I intend for it to be via electronic and mail-in proxy only.  the candidates and bylaws amendments to be voted on will be well and widely known in advance, members may use any means available to discuss these issues among one another, and the voting period will be many days.


[6/22/2020 2:54 PM] yashsedai
you might be taken serious if you didn't demostrate that you never know what the fuck you are talking about


[6/22/2020 2:54 PM] yashsedai
come at me grammar nazi's 😛


[6/22/2020 2:56 PM] nullinterface
the proxies will be directed and the secretary will execute them as such


[6/22/2020 2:56 PM] draco_the_drake
There has to a voting meeting for proxies to work as someone has to vote using them


[6/22/2020 2:57 PM] nullinterface
I do not know when we will be able to hold an on-site meeting without restrictions


[6/22/2020 2:57 PM] yashsedai
Thank you for demonstrating exactly what I'm talking about


[6/22/2020 2:57 PM] canibalcrab
That's what you call a "bad idea"


[6/22/2020 2:57 PM] nullinterface
I intend to have perhaps a dozen or two members onsite for the counting


[6/22/2020 2:58 PM] nullinterface
a ~dozen will be myself + tabulators and the remainders observers


[6/22/2020 2:58 PM] draco_the_drake
I'm not sure if u can bar some members in good standing and not others ... There is a bylaw about having same rights


[6/22/2020 2:58 PM] draco_the_drake
Privileges


[6/22/2020 2:59 PM] nullinterface
the reality of COVID-19 room capacities will do for us


[6/22/2020 2:59 PM] draco_the_drake
We could have it off site and outside


[6/22/2020 2:59 PM] canibalcrab
Hahahaha


[6/22/2020 2:59 PM] nullinterface
your ability to throw up roadblocks is astounding


[6/22/2020 2:59 PM] draco_the_drake
But I prefer online


[6/22/2020 3:00 PM] yashsedai
We could have draco offsite permanently, thats an agenda item i can get behind


[6/22/2020 3:00 PM] draco_the_drake
I don't know why we cannot just have it online?


[6/22/2020 3:00 PM] nullinterface
oh but we need a massive bylaws rework for online so we're forever fucked until COVID-19 restrictions end


[6/22/2020 3:00 PM] agr0090
Are the list of statements of intent still who is running? https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Category:2020_Statements_of_Intent

{Embed}
https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Category:2020_Statements_of_Intent
Category:2020 Statements of Intent


[6/22/2020 3:01 PM] nullinterface
@AGr - I believe Freddy untagged his SOI, so it should be


[6/22/2020 3:01 PM] yashsedai
that is correct


[6/22/2020 3:02 PM] draco_the_drake
No that is the part u are confused about ... Online meetings with votes ARE allowed ... Always have been ... It is online VOTING. Outside of a meeting that there is an issue


[6/22/2020 3:02 PM] yashsedai
with all the horse shit lately you couldn't pay me to be a board member

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[6/22/2020 3:03 PM] draco_the_drake
Proxies are fine as long as there is voting at the meeting


[6/22/2020 3:03 PM] yashsedai
Good job Eric, your lord and master draco approves


[6/22/2020 3:04 PM] nullinterface
end of the day, the letter of the law says one thing with its basis in 19th century communication via *post* and newgfangled *joint stock companies* and concern that shareholders might get screwed out of their equity.  we have none of that.  what's being proposed is equitable to all members and little different from how the majority of votes were cast in all elections prior to 2019.


[6/22/2020 3:06 PM] canibalcrab
I just voted in a shareholder meeting and didn't get a chance to get on my soapbox

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[6/22/2020 3:06 PM] nullinterface
someone wants to come after us, they'll need to demonstrate harm ... which is going to be a tough hill to climb


[6/22/2020 3:07 PM] draco_the_drake
So are u planning on not allowing voting at the meeting besides you?


[6/22/2020 3:08 PM] nullinterface
> however, the realities of the rules around social distancing make an in-person election impractical to implement, thus I intend for it to be via electronic and mail-in proxy only.
for the reading comprehension challenged


[6/22/2020 3:09 PM] draco_the_drake
Proxies have to be voted by someone


[6/22/2020 3:09 PM] yashsedai
lol


[6/22/2020 3:09 PM] canibalcrab
If you want to debate other rules, there's someone complaining about not being allowed to store their car here

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[6/22/2020 3:09 PM] canibalcrab
On talk


[6/22/2020 3:10 PM] nullinterface
and I'm going to stop unhiding messages


[6/22/2020 3:12 PM] nullinterface
because I want this election over and would rather not run the dual risks of disenfranchising members and possibly being complicit in COVID-19 transmission through a large gathering


[6/22/2020 3:13 PM] draco_the_drake
Well that is what a proxy is ... Response from David Griggs, the DMS general council:

“a proxy must be executed by an eligible voting member and assigned to another eligible voting member who can carry the proxy to vote at a meeting.”


[6/22/2020 3:13 PM] nullinterface
IDGAF


[6/22/2020 3:14 PM] yashsedai
lol


[6/22/2020 3:14 PM] nullinterface
Your solution is essentially not to have an election


[6/22/2020 3:14 PM] draco_the_drake
No we just have one online


[6/22/2020 3:15 PM] nullinterface
> oh but we need a massive bylaws rework for online so we're forever fucked until COVID-19 restrictions end
that was your thinking when you put together that horrific bylaws proposal after a year of navel-gazing


[6/22/2020 3:16 PM] nullinterface
so please spare us your pearl-clutching non-solutions


[6/22/2020 3:16 PM] draco_the_drake
You helped me put together that proposal


[6/22/2020 3:16 PM] draco_the_drake
With tapper


[6/22/2020 3:17 PM] nullinterface
no, Tapper, myself, and Bert stripped that down to *something* that could at least be put in front of the membership since the "task force" wasn't going to produce a deliverable


[6/22/2020 3:18 PM] nullinterface
I am truly done with this subject for now


[6/22/2020 3:18 PM] draco_the_drake
Ok


[6/22/2020 3:25 PM] yashsedai
"task force" ROFLROFLROFLROFL


[6/22/2020 3:25 PM] yashsedai
thats rich


[6/22/2020 3:37 PM] draco_the_drake
What Task Force?  It was a bylaws discussion group last I heard


[6/22/2020 3:58 PM] merissa4308
Are all the candidates who put in SOIs still members?


[6/22/2020 4:00 PM] nullinterface
I have not verified this


[6/22/2020 4:00 PM] nullinterface
Will have to validate before ballots are prepared and sent


[6/22/2020 4:01 PM] nullinterface
I would hope that all candidates have maintained their memberships


[6/22/2020 4:06 PM] merissa4308
Sounds good, just thought I'd ask because of everything these days.  Would be helpful to see candidates reaffirm their intent to run.


[6/22/2020 5:48 PM] quattroquattro
> I would hope that all candidates have maintained their memberships
@ESmith do you though? 😉


[6/22/2020 5:51 PM] quattroquattro
I mean half the candidates didn't lift a finger to help the space during the shutdown.


[6/22/2020 8:13 PM] judykriehn3727
> Are you assuming I'm unhappy?
@yashsedai 
You not unhappy. You a curmudgeon.


[6/22/2020 8:13 PM] yashsedai
;)


[6/22/2020 8:21 PM] judykriehn3727
> I used fool becuase of its use in the phrase "not suffer fools"
@yashsedai 
I would describe myself as not suffering fools well, either. However, in my parlance, it translates to "I have a very low tolerance for people who are behaving in an annoying manner."


[6/22/2020 9:09 PM] ferricyanide7475
🤷‍♀️ i have seen you snap at new ignorant/naive people on talk. Not really the best welcome to new members. I suppose raffi and draco are repeat offenders. But whatever it's not like my 2 cents counts for anything


[6/22/2020 9:09 PM] ferricyanide7475
Also kobin won our science committee election can i resign since he was my vice chair and just be out?


[6/22/2020 9:11 PM] ferricyanide7475
Do i have to make a talk post to resign?


[6/22/2020 9:12 PM] skyspook
I think that's how it's usually been done for as much as I've seen. I imagine you can just tell the board though if you're just done and don't want the attention.


[6/22/2020 9:13 PM] draco_the_drake
I am rarely rude or unwelcoming


[6/22/2020 9:13 PM] draco_the_drake
They just don't like me much


[6/22/2020 9:13 PM] ferricyanide7475
I was referring to freddy


[6/22/2020 9:13 PM] draco_the_drake
oh ok


[6/22/2020 9:13 PM] ferricyanide7475
And you and raffi annoy him regularly


[6/22/2020 9:15 PM] yashsedai
@ferricyanide snap? i'd love to see an example


[6/22/2020 9:16 PM] anutterbutter
Really:) On the voting thread, seemed kind of angry.


[6/22/2020 9:17 PM] yashsedai
lol draco is annoying but that has nothing to do with angry


[6/22/2020 9:18 PM] yashsedai
and nothing to do with the conversation above


[6/22/2020 9:33 PM] anutterbutter
I'm not here to argue, I'm here to laugh, amuse me clown.


[6/22/2020 9:35 PM] draco_the_drake
I think the top down model for DMS doesn't work well without buy in .. Freddy you seem to take the view that it doesn't matter what people think... just ban them if they don't like it ...  Am I wrong?


[6/22/2020 9:35 PM] canibalcrab
that last part was added on by rumor


[6/22/2020 9:38 PM] yashsedai
which part is rumor?


[6/22/2020 9:39 PM] canibalcrab
ban them for not agreeing


[6/22/2020 9:39 PM] yashsedai
ah


[6/22/2020 9:39 PM] canibalcrab
everyone who got banned this year earned it themselves

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[6/22/2020 9:39 PM] yashsedai
lol that would be the damn truth - the whole they earned it...


[6/22/2020 9:41 PM] yashsedai
Draco, my view is to accept input and make the best decision possible. This doesn't mean sit in meetings where people beat a dead horse for 3 fucking hours. There are some like you who exist solely to be annoying and detract from the conversation, if you were banned I might dance a jig, but it would need to be something bannable for it to occur.


[6/22/2020 9:43 PM] draco_the_drake
But you are for a top-down approach, in that the board/officers make authoritative decisions for the membership regardless of if the membership agrees or buys into the decision?


[6/22/2020 9:44 PM] yashsedai
Duh, thats the only way this works...That is literally their job, this isn't a damn democracy


[6/22/2020 9:45 PM] yashsedai
Not from an org leadership perspective


[6/22/2020 9:45 PM] yashsedai
Committees sure


[6/22/2020 9:45 PM] yashsedai
its sorta democratic


[6/22/2020 9:46 PM] yashsedai
but to leave the direction of the org to people who lack the knowledge or facilities to aprpeciate the long term impacts is insanity

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[6/22/2020 9:46 PM] yashsedai
See draco and his crack team of bylaws folks


[6/22/2020 9:48 PM] draco_the_drake
I think our differences lay in that I think the board is there in service to the membership.  They MUST include them in things.


[6/22/2020 9:48 PM] canibalcrab
thats not how the space was set up


[6/22/2020 9:49 PM] yashsedai
I think that you have zero clue about how functional business stay solvent and have proven it time and again. You pedant on about the dumbest shit and rules lawyer everything. The board's job is to run the org. The membership elect the board. The membership does not DIRECT the board.


[6/22/2020 9:50 PM] draco_the_drake
The board has final say but for the most part should stay out of the way.


[6/22/2020 9:51 PM] yashsedai
No, you are the perfect example of why that is the last fucking thing that should happen.


[6/22/2020 9:51 PM] yashsedai
Go make your own pedantspace and do that shit there.


[6/22/2020 9:51 PM] draco_the_drake
Are we not having a friendly conversation or do I enrage you that much?


[6/22/2020 9:52 PM] draco_the_drake
Perhaps you should just ignore my posts


[6/22/2020 9:53 PM] draco_the_drake
if I annoy you or enrage you that much


[6/22/2020 9:53 PM] draco_the_drake
Take Brad's advice


[6/22/2020 9:53 PM] yashsedai
Last i checked it was friendly and you don't enrage me at all. It's self evident that you lack the foresight or reasoning abilty to process higher order thinking. I'm just here to remind you it seems.


[6/22/2020 9:53 PM] anutterbutter
Thousands of drivers, what could possibly go wrong.

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[6/22/2020 9:53 PM] draco_the_drake
Well, you started cussing .. that was my clue


[6/22/2020 9:54 PM] yashsedai
I find judicious use of profanity a perfect method of providing the stacatto needed to drive home points that you can't seem to grasp.


[6/22/2020 9:56 PM] draco_the_drake
I don't care to enrage you or annoy you


[6/22/2020 9:57 PM] draco_the_drake
I find your opinions .. interesting but I disagree that they have been good for the space


[6/22/2020 9:57 PM] draco_the_drake
I'm talking about the ones above


[6/22/2020 9:57 PM] draco_the_drake
I'm sure your technological ones are just fine.


[6/22/2020 9:59 PM] draco_the_drake
Brad?  Do you care to say something out loud or just whisper?


[6/22/2020 10:00 PM] canibalcrab
wat


[6/22/2020 10:02 PM] brsims2406
Not to you, buddy.


[6/22/2020 10:02 PM] draco_the_drake
Alrighty


[6/22/2020 10:04 PM] brsims2406
I think if you like a version of DMS where the organization is generally paralyzed from being able to take coordinated action, and is ripe for opportunists to fleace as they will, Draco's version of things works well. That said, he's so deeply ingrained in his way of thinking it does no good to argue with him (or indeed to address him directly).

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[6/22/2020 10:09 PM] draco_the_drake
No, someone has to make a decision.   This is not an uncommon issue in makerspaces.   I'm all for pushing much of it down to committees and making strong committees.


[6/22/2020 10:10 PM] draco_the_drake
Committees are really the way people can contribute to running the space and have some sort of "ownership" in the space.


[6/22/2020 10:10 PM] draco_the_drake
That is important for volunteerism


[6/22/2020 10:10 PM] draco_the_drake
If you make all the decisions at the board level or enforce them downwards, you lose alot.


[6/22/2020 10:21 PM] brsims2406
This is the last I'll say about Draco's way of thinking on the subject of committee empowerment. I invite anybody who thinks that there is a grain of truth to what he goes on about to take a look at wood shop funds over the last year and a half. That's a committee that has had its finances utterly gutted by ineffective management. Literally tens of thousands of dollars of wasted funds. Most of it within the rules, most of it bad for longevity of the space. If every committee was run the way that one had been for the last year and a half, This place simply couldn't continue to exist. We're very lucky that Paul has volunteered to take over.

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[6/22/2020 10:39 PM] nullinterface
for all the talk about community and democracy and buy-in and delegating authority to the wisdom of the membership that ship sailed long before I joined.  the reality is that competent volunteers are few and far between, naysayers willing to subject drive-by criticism are legion, and processes are routinely abused to benefit select cliques.  **We.  Are.  Too.  Large.**  for that to work, something that pretty much every study of organizational theory will confirm.  

Work with the *motivated* and *stakeholders*.  Invite participation.  But discount the opinions of the uninvolved and the back-benchers with their drive-by criticism.

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[6/22/2020 10:43 PM] nullinterface
At this point in time I suspect that we're not going to see the dream of SRC3 realized


[6/22/2020 10:44 PM] nullinterface
The work is going to fall on too few volunteers who will struggle to execute projects while enforcing otherwise sensible rules that are detested by the malcontents


[6/22/2020 10:45 PM] nullinterface
from my perspective, the appeal *to the membership* is an appeal for stagnation


[6/22/2020 10:53 PM] canibalcrab
>  volunteers who will struggle to execute projects while enforcing otherwise sensible rules that are detested by the malcontents
boy do i feel that


[6/22/2020 10:53 PM] nullinterface
sometimes I feel it's worse for you now than it was for me 2015-2017


[6/22/2020 10:54 PM] canibalcrab
for the most part its a lot better. but theres occasionally one asshole who makes a big stink


[6/22/2020 10:54 PM] canibalcrab
https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/pearce-uncalled-for-towing-ticket-on-my-car/72009/22


[6/22/2020 10:55 PM] ferricyanide7475
The company i work at has 99k employees, i have to get buy ins regularly and i delegate to my team. I think it's really more about organization. Chairs can delegate to their committees. There was only one chair meeting during my term. But chairs can organize among themselves and address the DnO as a whole. They could appoint a head chair/delegate. The general membership could be represented by the head of the membership meetings. That way it's less direct dealings with the board. I get the feeling thos was done in the past but hasn't been done recently.


[6/22/2020 10:56 PM] canibalcrab
no thats incorrect


[6/22/2020 10:57 PM] canibalcrab
the membership meetings were a lot of people yelling at each other over what brand of power tool was better or what color to paint the walls


[6/22/2020 10:57 PM] canibalcrab
and then no one wanted to show up to the member meetings to avoid it


[6/22/2020 10:58 PM] nullinterface
the ones I remember being *tolerable* in ~2015 were principally the board and chairs giving reports about what was going on


[6/22/2020 10:59 PM] canibalcrab
back when the chairs actually gave reasonable reports


[6/22/2020 10:59 PM] nullinterface
also, there's a bit more motivation at work since the carrots and sticks of employment are on the line


[6/22/2020 10:59 PM] canibalcrab
the chairs could also get stuff done because they were dictators by default


[6/22/2020 11:00 PM] nullinterface
that too - they were *it* but also had the checkbook


[6/22/2020 11:00 PM] aceat64
originally we tried the consensus model for committees, where the committee members had to agree on stuff to spend money and such


[6/22/2020 11:00 PM] ferricyanide7475
By having to go to meetings it is the more involved members


[6/22/2020 11:01 PM] aceat64
that didn't work out well, so we moved to the "benevolent dictator" model for committee, where the chair was empowered to make decisions, but was urged to _listen_ to the members


[6/22/2020 11:01 PM] nullinterface
one occasionally sees a core of members that are committed to making things happen in a committee


[6/22/2020 11:02 PM] aceat64
something that people fail to realize though, is that while committee chairs and board members should listen to the members, they aren't required to do whatever it is the most vocal person yells


[6/22/2020 11:03 PM] aceat64
chairs that didn't get a feel for what people want, have under performing committees and were typically replaced


[6/22/2020 11:04 PM] canibalcrab
the issue with committees having to vote on every little thing with everyone is that there was always that one guy who showed up and wanted to debate bullshit details into the ground and then people stop showing up to committee meetings


[6/22/2020 11:04 PM] canibalcrab
along with drive by voting


[6/22/2020 11:04 PM] aceat64
basically the Draco's and Raffi's made meetings unbearable


[6/22/2020 11:05 PM] canibalcrab
drive by voting is why science has a long history of trying to make weird criteria for who gets to vote


[6/22/2020 11:05 PM] canibalcrab
later attempted by woodshop and others


[6/22/2020 11:11 PM] draco_the_drake
I was in one meeting this past year .. one


[6/22/2020 11:11 PM] draco_the_drake
member meeting


[6/22/2020 11:12 PM] aceat64
I feel like you missed the point


[6/22/2020 11:12 PM] aceat64
which, coincidently, sort of provides backing for the point

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[6/22/2020 11:13 PM] canibalcrab
> the membership meetings were a lot of people yelling at each other over what brand of power tool was better or what color to paint the walls
@pearce


[6/22/2020 11:13 PM] canibalcrab
> and then no one wanted to show up to the member meetings to avoid it
@pearce


[6/22/2020 11:13 PM] canibalcrab
just to repost for you


[6/22/2020 11:15 PM] nullinterface
if someone has an example of an organization of our scale roughly structured like us but manages the harmonious delegation of as much authority as possible to the membership for organic management of operations and strategic initiatives, I expect that present - and future - leadership would be *all ears*

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[6/22/2020 11:15 PM] michaelb5250
Honestly though even at large companies I've never been in a meeting as large as the member meeting where people expected to have direct input. 

Anything that large was like a quarterly status meeting, there were questions at the end but I wouldn't ever try and sit 50 people in a room and make a decision.

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[6/22/2020 11:16 PM] nullinterface
and even then at those meetings the questions can go into the weeds real quick - but the carrot and stick of employment does tend to limit them to a degree


[6/22/2020 11:24 PM] michaelb5250
I mean let's be honest here, what a paying company also gets you is people trained and skilled at leadership. Even if questions start to veer off, you have people that know how to keep the discussion on track and make sure everyone feels like they were heard. 

Our leadership is free, and they're damn good for the price, but I feel like there's room for improvement from all sides.


[6/22/2020 11:27 PM] ferricyanide7475
I went to 2 member meetings one had like 4 people and just dissolved. The other had less than 10. But if you are saying that member meetings used to have 50 people, that is closer to the head count of my sorority in college. We had weekly meetings and had an agenda and strictly followed Roberts rules of order. Older members taught newer members. Obviously not paid then.


[6/22/2020 11:28 PM] ferricyanide7475
We did have a sister that was in charge of enforcing the rules. Typically we almost never went over the hour.


[6/22/2020 11:29 PM] nullinterface
member meetings have pretty much no explicit authority to perform business


[6/22/2020 11:30 PM] ferricyanide7475
I don't see why they can't discuss things that are brought to the board. Why not toss around ideas and hash out things before approaching the board on things that make sense


[6/22/2020 11:30 PM] ferricyanide7475
Less legwork for the board


[6/22/2020 11:31 PM] ferricyanide7475
Delegated down and considered


[6/22/2020 11:31 PM] ferricyanide7475
It's prediscussed before the board meeting.


[6/22/2020 11:38 PM] nullinterface
we've tried to encourage this


[6/22/2020 11:38 PM] nullinterface
https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/make-dms-board-member-meetings-better-through-dms-src3/54822


[6/22/2020 11:39 PM] nullinterface
but ... member motivation


[6/22/2020 11:41 PM] nullinterface
someone wants to run with that proposal, use it as the basis for another different proposal - have at


[6/22/2020 11:48 PM] ferricyanide7475
Sounds reasonable to me. Did this just never start?


[6/22/2020 11:51 PM] draco_the_drake
I'm up for having regular member meetings again


[6/22/2020 11:52 PM] draco_the_drake
Oh btw the reason i didn't go to many last year for the summer months they didn't schedule any and I left at the beginning of October


[6/22/2020 11:53 PM] draco_the_drake
There are some really good ideas surrounding them that I think for many they will make them more bearable/enjoyable


[6/22/2020 11:53 PM] draco_the_drake
Oh here we go ... Freddy... what?


[6/22/2020 11:53 PM] ferricyanide7475
Ah okay. I couldn't remember any recently


[6/22/2020 11:55 PM] canibalcrab
well this year a certain someone made everyone think that member meetings had to be mailed out officially or some bullshit, so a lot of people stopped trying all together

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[6/22/2020 11:55 PM] draco_the_drake
Only the ones that people can vote at


[6/22/2020 11:55 PM] draco_the_drake
and that could have been fixed easily .. with no mail out .. I explained that many times


[6/22/2020 11:56 PM] draco_the_drake
Hopefully we will fix that coming up and then we won't have to snail mail again


[6/22/2020 11:56 PM] canibalcrab
you keep conflating the annual meeting and the member meetings though


[6/22/2020 11:56 PM] canibalcrab
and thats the issue


[6/22/2020 11:56 PM] draco_the_drake
There is nothing special about an annual meeting except it is once a year .. member meetings follow the same rules


[6/22/2020 11:57 PM] draco_the_drake
We happen to hold elections at our annual member meeting


[6/22/2020 11:57 PM] canibalcrab
the member meetings are simply trying to do what @ferricyanide was talking about, and you keep trying to make them the same as annual meetings


[6/22/2020 11:59 PM] canibalcrab
we can have a discussion at a member meeting to bring an issue to the board just to poll the room and decide on if it needs to be moved up, but because you hear the word "vote" you think the state is going to be there shitting its pants over procedure


[6/22/2020 11:59 PM] draco_the_drake
All that is required ... You put on the place where you sign up for Voting Rights, a click through agreement saying that we will use your registered email as your notice, click here to agree and click Get Voting Rights ... then everyone that has voting rights just needs to go by and click it .. then boom .. no more snail mail


[6/22/2020 11:59 PM] nullinterface
Member meetings can do three things:
1. Elect directors at an annual meeting (⅓ quroum)
2. Amend the bylaws at a special or otherwise properly notified meeting (⅔ quorum)
3. Remove directors at any duly constituted meeting (⅔ quorum)


[6/23/2020 12:01 AM] canibalcrab
the monthly membership meetings used to serve as updates for committes to board, inform other people what other sides of the space were doing and then people like draco decided to try and claim they were legal meetings that needed all sorts of bullshit


[6/23/2020 12:01 AM] canibalcrab
when they basically only shared a name because we didnt have anything better to call them


[6/23/2020 12:02 AM] draco_the_drake
If you want to schedule some sort of member gathering .. there are no laws covering it .. go for it .. do what you like

If you want to schedule Regular Member Meetings which is what the rules had you do and what they were being called with the President leading them ... then you follow the laws covering Regular member meetings


[6/23/2020 12:02 AM] nullinterface
Outside of the annual meeting, membership meetings have rarely hit ⅓ quorum, and pretty much never have actionable agenda items - and in my experience the membership is never notified

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[6/23/2020 12:03 AM] canibalcrab
i just realized i dont care, because the membership meetings didnt get anything done and trying to get chairs to give any kind of update that wasnt bullshit was like pulling teeth


[6/23/2020 12:03 AM] yashsedai
Or what draco


[6/23/2020 12:04 AM] yashsedai
You gonna sue?


[6/23/2020 12:04 AM] nullinterface
Committee Chairs generally haven't attended even the informal meetings we used to have


[6/23/2020 12:04 AM] draco_the_drake
No need


[6/23/2020 12:04 AM] draco_the_drake
We already have enough problems with suits on our Insurance


[6/23/2020 12:04 AM] yashsedai
No? Then shut the fuck up about it


[6/23/2020 12:05 AM] draco_the_drake
Or what Freddy


[6/23/2020 12:05 AM] yashsedai
Nobody believes your worthless ass opinion about any of it


[6/23/2020 12:05 AM] yashsedai
All you do is confuse the membership with your retarded ranting


[6/23/2020 12:05 AM] draco_the_drake
Why do you have to be so abusive?


[6/23/2020 12:06 AM] yashsedai
Why do you have to be a pedantic annoyance?


[6/23/2020 12:06 AM] draco_the_drake
I already told you .. just put me on ignore .. it will be calmer for you


[6/23/2020 12:07 AM] canibalcrab
i would lay a good portion of the blame of the failure of membership meetings to come back in any useful fashion at dracos fearmongering

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[6/23/2020 12:07 AM] yashsedai
Most of our membership are conflict averse


[6/23/2020 12:07 AM] draco_the_drake
Or the boards attempt to control topics in it rather than letting people talk about what they wanted to talk about


[6/23/2020 12:07 AM] canibalcrab
if not fearmongering, beating people over the head with armchair lawyering


[6/23/2020 12:08 AM] ferricyanide7475
So sounds like they needed a good moderator

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[6/23/2020 12:08 AM] draco_the_drake
Yes


[6/23/2020 12:08 AM] draco_the_drake
I think it should membership voted


[6/23/2020 12:08 AM] yashsedai
Lol hahahha


[6/23/2020 12:08 AM] yashsedai
That's rich


[6/23/2020 12:08 AM] canibalcrab
those were board meetings draco


[6/23/2020 12:08 AM] canibalcrab
not membership meetings


[6/23/2020 12:09 AM] yashsedai
This isnt school where everyone gets a trophy


[6/23/2020 12:09 AM] draco_the_drake
No .. the last member meeting I went to .. you and Freddy were not there .. they kept trying to push topics to the board office hours instead allowing the conversation to continue


[6/23/2020 12:09 AM] yashsedai
Its business


[6/23/2020 12:10 AM] nullinterface
I'd like to encourage Draco to look at both the bylaws and Certificate of Formation which state unambiguously that the corporation's affairs shall be governed by Directors


[6/23/2020 12:10 AM] draco_the_drake
Oh I am well aware that it should be governed by the Board of Directors.


[6/23/2020 12:10 AM] yashsedai
But Erik, we need to have the membership vote


[6/23/2020 12:10 AM] yashsedai
Gotta vote guyz


[6/23/2020 12:11 AM] yashsedai
I can conflate so much bullshit and waste everyone's time and I might get my way


[6/23/2020 12:11 AM] draco_the_drake
We are a different animal than most corporations.  We are all volunteers.


[6/23/2020 12:12 AM] yashsedai
How about you volunteer to never talk about rules or bylaws again


[6/23/2020 12:12 AM] nullinterface
I've put forward my ideas for more membership involvement in that old Talk thread.  Someone else can run with it - perhaps take the step towards the membership filtering agenda items for the Board and also taking ownership of the life cycle of agenda items


[6/23/2020 12:13 AM] nullinterface
Anyway, work starts at 0700 tomorrow so I'm stepping out


[6/23/2020 12:13 AM] draco_the_drake
If you want more volunteer involvement how about stop running people off


[6/23/2020 12:13 AM] yashsedai
If you want people to volunteer how about you stop being a pedant rule lawyering annoyance


[6/23/2020 12:13 AM] draco_the_drake
Calling them trolls or undesirables or whatever it is


[6/23/2020 12:14 AM] yashsedai
You are a troll


[6/23/2020 12:14 AM] yashsedai
AND undesirable at this point


[6/23/2020 12:14 AM] draco_the_drake
oh Freddy ...


[6/23/2020 12:14 AM] draco_the_drake
lol


[6/23/2020 12:14 AM] draco_the_drake
You really don't get it


[6/23/2020 12:15 AM] draco_the_drake
oh well


[6/23/2020 12:15 AM] yashsedai
Oh I get it well. You think you are helping.


[6/23/2020 12:15 AM] yashsedai
This is a post draco dms


[6/23/2020 12:15 AM] draco_the_drake
You are right about me being undesirable here  .. most people on this chat are of the similar mindset


[6/23/2020 12:15 AM] draco_the_drake
I don't know why I get on here


[6/23/2020 12:16 AM] draco_the_drake
I guess that is my fault


[6/23/2020 12:16 AM] yashsedai
To be reminded how much of a pedant you are?


[6/23/2020 12:16 AM] draco_the_drake
hehehe


[6/23/2020 6:38 AM] noble_goblin
Just now seeing all these so to throw back to yesterday, nope. I don't assume you're unhappy Freddy. Looking into the science behind a particular emotion or behavior doesn't mean you're going to magically improve in that area nor that you want to. 

I do think your interpersonal interactions could be improved, partially based on what I've seen and partially based on the (*seemingly*) general consensus, however I also believe everyone has ways they can improve. Self improvement/growth is lifelong. 

And I agree with Pearce's comments. "Fool" is def an opinion. 

Lastly- I'm with ya'll on the election. It's not safe to meet together. Texas is spiking in cases as it is.


[6/23/2020 6:51 AM] noble_goblin
I wanted to add a few things after finishing the thread- 

I agree with a lot of the issues and that the space is too large for certain kinds of management. 

One thing I am straight up guilty of is jumping into (being talked into really) a position that I knew nothing about. I think for the chairs/vice chairs/etc there needs to be a STANDARDIZED SOP (Standard Operating Procedures) that outlines the expectations of that position to include:

-Responsibilities
-What powers you do and do not have
-contact info for all other chairs/board members
-Expectations such as meetings/paperwork
-EXAMPLES OF PAPERWORK including FORMATS and blank copies
etc. 

I know the wiki exists and tbh it blows as far as being "user friendly" 
Having a dedicated dropbox/google box/whatever for each committee would be so helpful in keeping valuable data accessible and transparent. 

I struggled learning about what to do with PR and got a lot of flack when I asked questions or tried to get involved. Regardless of if it annoyed people or not, I was new and trying. It almost turned me off of the space in all honesty. 

So tl;dr I propose standardized manuals, localized records, and maybe minimum requirements for people running for chairs.


[6/23/2020 6:57 AM] noble_goblin
Lastly, (sorry I know I'm being lengthy) I think that the monthly member potlucks should come back. It would be a great time/place to remind people of meetings and the ones I went to were fantastic and really encouraged people to meet each other in a fun and friendly atmosphere. I met a lot of people I normally wouldn't. 

Fostering community is important. People have to care about more than just the space if you want them to volunteer. Otherwise they will think "well I pay my dues so someone else can do the work" rather than having a vested interest in the -community- they -donate- to.


[6/23/2020 6:57 AM] nullinterface
Everyone hates the wiki, but few work to improve it


[6/23/2020 6:59 AM] noble_goblin
I know nothing about wiki- I think that it's fine for it's purpose (which is general and legal it seems) but we could do more as far as education people about their positions and expectations.


[6/23/2020 7:01 AM] noble_goblin
There is a reason Wikipedia added Simple English as an option. 

I get people not wanting to write manuals. I've written one from scratch for the undergrad research program I ran in Parklands ED a few years back and it was hard. It also made my life, my bosses life, and the students lives SO much easier. 

There could be a base manual for things expected from every chair/vice chair/whatever and the committees could add on any nuances.


[6/23/2020 7:01 AM] noble_goblin
*know nothing as far as how to edit it


[6/23/2020 7:46 AM] nullinterface
I've done tech writing throughout my professional career


[6/23/2020 7:47 AM] nullinterface
the visual editor has been working fine for some time on the wiki


[6/23/2020 7:47 AM] noble_goblin
That would be a fun class to attend *hinthint*


[6/23/2020 7:47 AM] noble_goblin
I'm not comfortable editing the wiki. That's def a job that has to have position and permission behind it.


[6/23/2020 7:47 AM] nullinterface
yeah, I've not taught a class and am not motivated to change that

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[6/23/2020 7:48 AM] noble_goblin
It's not for everyone


[6/23/2020 7:51 AM] nullinterface
wiki source formatting has some ickiness to it if you've not dealt with that sort of thing before, but you generally only need it now for tagging, otherwise the visual editor is a lot like a word processor


[6/23/2020 7:53 AM] nullinterface
if we want to go with another platform for less ... legalese ... documentation, that's fine, but the entire org should go that way rather than committees going off their own direction, which tends to change with each subsequent chair


[6/23/2020 7:56 AM] noble_goblin
I agree. That's why I stated a baseline rulebook with nuances specific to the committees added...and probably submitted for board approval for transparency. Keep all the manuals in one gdrive


[6/23/2020 9:47 AM] kenpurcell
As a lame duck board member that is at least 3-4 months past his prime. I can say without fear of not making this years electorial cut that finding good chairs and officers is crucial to surviving in the next year or two. We have had some exceptional volunteers and officers that kept things functional and improving. BUT we have had some chairs of our biggest committees that utterly sucked and took advantage of DMS. Woodshop is now under great leadership and at a really critical time for their committee. 3D Fab needs leadership more concerned about members success in printing and less gatekeeping or self aggrandizement for conventions.

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[6/23/2020 9:49 AM] themitch22
*nose goes*


[6/23/2020 9:51 AM] anutterbutter
Manuals would be a great idea for incoming chairs, a mammoth effort though since most chairs seem busy enough keeping up with the day to day, not to mention the extra "challenges" of late.


[6/23/2020 9:56 AM] anutterbutter
Maybe that could be a vice chair task?


[6/23/2020 10:00 AM] yashsedai
LOL Ken, you so nice


[6/23/2020 10:06 AM] kenpurcell
@nutterbutter I agree that a roles/responsibilities guide/document would be helpful to all involved. @yashsedai I could say much more but best to stop there. 😉

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[6/23/2020 9:39 PM] nullinterface
https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/2020-annual-meeting-elections-info/68873/3


[6/24/2020 8:46 AM] michaelb5250
Has anyone considered wether we're shifting the whole election cycle or just electing this slate of directors for 9 months? I guess that applies to chairs too


[6/24/2020 9:11 AM] nullinterface
that can is being kicked down the road


[6/24/2020 9:12 AM] nullinterface
although if the bylaws amendments pass then yes, the next Board term will be quite short

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[6/24/2020 11:05 AM] kenpurcell
Those poor souls!


[6/24/2020 11:16 AM] themitch22
We can get a trial version of a board of directors. Money back guarantee

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[6/24/2020 12:51 PM] kenpurcell
My license expired a couple months ago.


[6/24/2020 12:55 PM] nullinterface
just change your system clock


[6/24/2020 12:55 PM] nullinterface
and hope the app doesn't bother to check with any NTP servers


[6/24/2020 3:32 PM] lavarocks.
Mine too Ken


[6/24/2020 3:32 PM] lavarocks.
Also, if the next board has a short term they are some lucky sumbitches


[6/24/2020 3:51 PM] canibalcrab
I think they should know that the term will be short in order to get them back into the normal schedule


[6/24/2020 3:53 PM] brsims2406
Is there some reason we care that elections happen in the spring?


[6/24/2020 3:57 PM] michaelb5250
^ That was my thought. I figured elections would just be pushed back for all time. I was just curious because of the term length. If we go for a short term, chairs now being elected would have 3-4 months before new elections


[6/24/2020 3:57 PM] canibalcrab
Keeping the schedule is supposed to prevent a board from extending it's time through pushing out dates


[6/24/2020 3:57 PM] canibalcrab
I suppose we could just put new hardline dates in


[6/24/2020 3:59 PM] canibalcrab
Like the last board that used their extra month.5 to spend a fuck ton of money

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[6/24/2020 4:00 PM] andrew5152
laughing @ phrasing; not the action. That was NOT funny.


[6/24/2020 4:00 PM] canibalcrab
I thought we put the dates in the rules or bylaws or something though


[6/24/2020 4:01 PM] andrew5152
I thought TheSecretary's rewrites were to do that. Didn't think it'd BEEN done yet...


[6/24/2020 4:03 PM] brsims2406
I don't think its in there yet, I'm pretty sure I recall last year's pedantry around "one year or until a successor board is elected" or some such.


[6/24/2020 4:08 PM] canibalcrab
Ah


[6/24/2020 4:09 PM] canibalcrab
I cant seem to keep track of all the bullshit anymore


[6/24/2020 4:46 PM] nullinterface
> I suppose we could just put new hardline dates in
@pearce one of the bylaws amendments hard-codes April as annual meeting time, that a board election shall occur at the annual meeting, and that the annual meeting is a definitive end of a director's term


[6/24/2020 4:52 PM] brsims2406
covid-19 is convincing me that hard dates in the bylaws might not be such a great idea.

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[6/24/2020 4:53 PM] nullinterface
exigent circumstances can always be argued


[6/24/2020 4:53 PM] brsims2406
Given our pendants maybe that should be explicit.


[6/24/2020 4:55 PM] nullinterface
no matter how tight the weave, a pedant can always find a loophole, exception, weird interpretation of case law, or magick something into existence if sufficiently desperate

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[6/24/2020 5:03 PM] michaelb5250
Are you planning on presenting the bylaws amendments as a package deal or letting people cherry pick the ones ~~that bennefit them~~ they like best?


[6/24/2020 5:03 PM] nullinterface
they're packaged into ... 4 or 5


[6/30/2020 1:23 PM] yashsedai
i found an updated pic of @Draco


[6/30/2020 1:23 PM] yashsedai


{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/727590058487447592/unknown.png?ex=67b96d4b&is=67b81bcb&hm=3cd2b32f24d719f2c28c4c054e3a8af44487019482335f5626fa8110c499a6b6&


[6/30/2020 2:37 PM] merissa4308
Can we keep this crap out of politics? Maybe just quit it altogether? 🙄


[6/30/2020 2:43 PM] michaelb5250
If I remember my highschool bully etiquette, it'll get worse as it's ignored and eventually either go away or result in suspension. But, it's been a minute.

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[6/30/2020 2:48 PM] yashsedai
@merissa nah


[6/30/2020 2:48 PM] merissa4308
Ok, more use of the mute button it is then


[6/30/2020 2:48 PM] yashsedai
@michaelb you are calling me a bully now? How laughable.. try it with draco and his crap


[6/30/2020 2:48 PM] yashsedai
@merissa whatever suits you


[6/30/2020 2:54 PM] ferricyanide7475
I think draco is annoying and argumentative but i dont think he tends to make fun of people. Unless i have missed it somewhere.


[6/30/2020 2:58 PM] michaelb5250
I tried but I can't think of a more accurate description of your post, so yes.


[6/30/2020 3:01 PM] yashsedai
It's ok that you cant see the bigger picture. My post is to his asinine comments about the finance policy.


[6/30/2020 3:02 PM] anutterbutter
Novel idea Merissa, I like it:)

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[6/30/2020 3:03 PM] yashsedai
Bye nutterbutter


[6/30/2020 3:03 PM] anutterbutter
He


[6/30/2020 3:12 PM] anutterbutter
I feel like such a rebel.

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[6/30/2020 4:15 PM] quattroquattro
Draco's a bully too, he just doesn't do it by name calling. Instead he just gaslights and trolls the people he doesn't like


[6/30/2020 4:17 PM] quattroquattro
Is a bully still a bully if the bully is bullying a bully who was bullying?


[6/30/2020 4:18 PM] quattroquattro
Say that ten times, fast


[6/30/2020 5:05 PM] yashsedai
*geta tongue tied*


[6/30/2020 9:10 PM] aceat64
> If we collaborated on anything, I would have lost support. If you got any PPE at all from my promotion efforts, just be thankful for the support...
@mark.randall how does this fit with your belief we should try to work together?


[6/30/2020 9:22 PM] aceat64
Note for those who don't want to find the original convo, Mark was saying how he didn't help with the PPE building because he would have lost support.


[6/30/2020 9:23 PM] skyspook
Thanks for the context, I missed that 🙂


[6/30/2020 9:37 PM] judykriehn3727
Lost support for what?


[6/30/2020 9:41 PM] aceat64
honestly, I'm not sure, I guess from his clique?


[6/30/2020 10:23 PM] quattroquattro
from the blue tape crew


[6/30/2020 10:23 PM] quattroquattro
vodka night bro


[6/30/2020 10:38 PM] yashsedai
haha


[7/1/2020 6:05 PM] nullinterface
at a loss for tagging candidates in individual posts to answer questions from yesterday...


[7/1/2020 6:06 PM] nullinterface
is the idea for candidates to respond in individual threads?


[7/1/2020 6:07 PM] quattroquattro
One thead would be better.


[7/1/2020 6:08 PM] nullinterface
is it for candidates that weren't in attendance or had to drop out?


[7/1/2020 6:08 PM] quattroquattro
So people see every response, not just the responses of the arguments against Kevin's "everyone gets free stuff if they vote for me"


[7/1/2020 6:09 PM] andrew5152
lol


[7/1/2020 6:09 PM] andrew5152
John did say this is how he was going to post it...


[7/1/2020 7:43 PM] judykriehn3727
I have a question. Exactly WHO would ask KEVIN of all people for advice regarding getting added to the "voting" AD list? (his TALK whine where he is pointing fingers states that he (kevin) is getting a lot of questions about voting.

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[7/1/2020 7:49 PM] quattroquattro
"people" asked him, like you know, he knows everyone, from all those classes he taught on how do do digital medias and stuff.


[7/1/2020 7:50 PM] michaelb5250
All the best people, the ones everybody knows. They're all talking about. Everyone's talking about how he's the smarterest one. They all call him up and say he's the best.

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[7/1/2020 7:50 PM] quattroquattro
The head of digital media who's apparently the world's greatest inventor can't figure out the site is the same site just http and https...

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[7/1/2020 8:02 PM] judykriehn3727
Let's all sing a chorus of Bob Dylan's "Tangled up in Blue" but add "Tape" after "Blue."

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[7/1/2020 8:19 PM] draco_the_drake
Keep fronting James

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[7/1/2020 8:29 PM] yashsedai
Keep being a pedant draco


[7/1/2020 8:29 PM] aceat64
Draco, you legit thought a conflict of interest policy (a thing that we have to uphold by law) somehow was a non-compete, I'm still waiting to hear that logic


[7/1/2020 8:30 PM] yashsedai
appears draco the dagron might not much on educat him


[7/1/2020 8:30 PM] aceat64
fun fact, when we filed our paperwork for the 501c3 weren't just aware of what a conflict of interest was, we took steps to ensure there wasn't even an _appearance_ of it with our paperwork


[7/1/2020 8:31 PM] draco_the_drake
I don't respond to people that have me on ignore, FYI


[7/1/2020 8:31 PM] aceat64
https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/IRS_Form_1023_Draft/Attachment#Attachment_5_Re_Part_V.2C_Section_2a

{Embed}
https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/IRS_Form_1023_Draft/Attachment
Attachment


[7/1/2020 8:31 PM] aceat64
> Andrew Lecody and Nicole Greeley are engaged to be married.


[7/1/2020 8:32 PM] canibalcrab
how do you know though


[7/1/2020 8:32 PM] draco_the_drake
Pretty easy, you just try and add an emoji and if they have you on ignore, it backs it out


[7/1/2020 8:33 PM] yashsedai
he uses his might dagron skills


[7/1/2020 8:33 PM] aceat64
IRS Form 1023 even asks if you have a conflict of interest policy


[7/1/2020 8:34 PM] draco_the_drake
So, no point in responding to people that choose not to read it


[7/1/2020 8:35 PM] aceat64
lol


[7/1/2020 8:35 PM] yashsedai
ps 😛 he still reads it 🙂


[7/1/2020 8:35 PM] aceat64
I just don't want PMs


[7/1/2020 8:35 PM] yashsedai
lol


[7/1/2020 8:36 PM] yashsedai
from me or anyone?


[7/1/2020 8:36 PM] yashsedai
(i just messaged him)


[7/1/2020 8:36 PM] aceat64
from draco


[7/1/2020 8:37 PM] yashsedai
what suprises the hell out of me, is that dagron the delusional isn't out in seattle at the chop, they totally seem like his kind of people, the more i watched and listened today the more i realized this


[7/1/2020 8:37 PM] draco_the_drake
Hell no.. not moving to Seattle with all that


[7/1/2020 8:38 PM] draco_the_drake
can't really stand SJWs either


[7/1/2020 8:38 PM] yashsedai
and yet, your behavior is all about social justice


[7/1/2020 8:38 PM] yashsedai
both you and rafael


[7/1/2020 8:40 PM] yashsedai
on a more relevant note andrew, if you have time i need a few minutes of it later


[7/1/2020 8:40 PM] yashsedai
obviously when you aren't playing destiny


[7/1/2020 8:40 PM] jebbabushka
lol


[7/1/2020 8:41 PM] draco_the_drake
I've explained why I do what I do elsewhere.   I want small federal government.    That is what I want for the DMS administration.  Leave it to the committee governments.  Committee Government is in the Bylaws, before you harp on that.


[7/1/2020 8:42 PM] axeonos
CHAZ


[7/1/2020 8:42 PM] yashsedai
lol


[7/1/2020 8:42 PM] yashsedai
i don't think he will try to occupy the space


[7/1/2020 8:42 PM] draco_the_drake
No lol


[7/1/2020 8:59 PM] draco_the_drake
I think our rules need to be easy to understand for the average member, if we are to expect that they follow them.
We have over 25 thousand words in our non-committee rules and policies..   I doubt anyone understands them all.


[7/1/2020 8:59 PM] judykriehn3727
You assume that the average committee chairman is interested in having to monitor governance in their area. My personal observation is that the ones that don't want board interference tend to be people who want to pad their own pockets in some manner.


[7/1/2020 9:00 PM] draco_the_drake
I do think we need to provide leadership training, recruit and develop people


[7/1/2020 9:00 PM] draco_the_drake
I think it is a process to build strong committees and leaders.


[7/1/2020 9:03 PM] draco_the_drake
The best leaders are the people that people follow naturally.


[7/1/2020 9:03 PM] yashsedai
The process begins by not trying to constantly shove bs down people's throats like you are famous for. It begins by common sense, logical discussions, not edge case scenarios that require you to invoke a lawyer.


[7/1/2020 9:03 PM] yashsedai
We don't have the luxury of being choosy about leadership


[7/1/2020 9:04 PM] yashsedai
We have no real benefit to offer, it is all by the grace of volunteers


[7/1/2020 9:06 PM] quattroquattro
> I think our rules need to be easy to understand for the average member, if we are to expect that they follow them.
@Draco 
You are literally the only person who has a problem understanding the rules lately.
And I'll take the piss out of Kevin all I want. He posted a lie about our conversation on talk, I posted the rest and he moved the goal posts. He won't answer any of the questions that aren't softballs.


[7/1/2020 9:07 PM] quattroquattro
Y'all are like 15 bans are too much! But no one will own up to who they wouldn't have banned...

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[7/1/2020 9:08 PM] draco_the_drake
@yashsedai  You are right, we don't have the luxury currently to be choosy because many people have been run off for various reasons.  We are at a low point.  It goes into why people volunteer in the first place.  There are several reasons.  Some just like supporting DMS, Tim would be a good example but others enjoy the community and the social aspects.  The D&O has decided it best to try their best to keep people from sleeping at the space and clean house as some have said.   This doesn't help volunteerism.


[7/1/2020 9:09 PM] brsims2406
@quattroquattro it's called cowardice.


[7/1/2020 9:09 PM] michaelb5250
15 bands are too much. Gotta break that out onto two stages minimum.

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[7/1/2020 9:09 PM] quattroquattro
@Draco I don't know why I'm talking to you, after your harassing me on Facebook and rage quit bullshit you can piss off

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[7/1/2020 9:10 PM] yashsedai
@Draco simple question, are people entitled to sleep at the space?


[7/1/2020 9:10 PM] draco_the_drake
It is NOT that people don't deserve to be banned.  It is the stark change in the way people have been treated.  As in holding the vast majority of board meetings in secret.   Rumors spread easily.   People feel like if they speak up, they will get banned.   It doesn't make for a friendly place.


[7/1/2020 9:10 PM] judykriehn3727
> The best leaders are the people that people follow naturally.
@Draco
Not necessarily true. There are people who are quite charismatic, and people flock to them, but are not good leaders. (witness many televangelists who have fleeced their flocks.)


[7/1/2020 9:11 PM] yashsedai
LITERALLY NOBODY HAS EVER BEEN BANNED FOR SPEAKING UP BY THIS BOARD


[7/1/2020 9:11 PM] yashsedai
Are board meetings really secret when they have meeting minutes?


[7/1/2020 9:11 PM] draco_the_drake
Doesn't matter the reasons if the reasons are not trusted.


[7/1/2020 9:12 PM] yashsedai
Trusted by who?


[7/1/2020 9:12 PM] yashsedai
You?


[7/1/2020 9:12 PM] yashsedai
Stan?


[7/1/2020 9:12 PM] yashsedai
Kris?


[7/1/2020 9:12 PM] yashsedai
You seem to have conveniently forgotten this issue was created by Kris


[7/1/2020 9:12 PM] quattroquattro
It's funny I just blocked him and I can pretty much guess what Draco is winging about


[7/1/2020 9:12 PM] yashsedai
She walked around and made the claims that people were gonna get banned for speaking up


[7/1/2020 9:12 PM] yashsedai
So did Stan


[7/1/2020 9:13 PM] draco_the_drake
Previous boards had public meetings where all members could come and see what was happening.   This board decided to change this and have mostly private meetings.   This leads to rumors and FUD


[7/1/2020 9:13 PM] aceat64
yeah, it was way better when the board held a circus show to ban people because those people found evidence of fraud


[7/1/2020 9:13 PM] aceat64
we should go back to that board


[7/1/2020 9:13 PM] yashsedai
The only person who is causing FUD is you


[7/1/2020 9:13 PM] yashsedai
You constantly bring it up as if it is real. It's not at all and you have yet to provide even a SHRED of evidence to the contrary


[7/1/2020 9:14 PM] canibalcrab
If there was ever a board to ban people for speaking up it was the board that banned people for saying we might be headed towards financial trouble


[7/1/2020 9:14 PM] aceat64
remember how vocal Draco was when we had a board member committing fraud and going after whistleblowers?


[7/1/2020 9:14 PM] aceat64
oh right, that didn't happen, he supported that because "this isn't a clubhouse anymore"

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[7/1/2020 9:15 PM] aceat64
I literally sent Draco the evidence of the fraud because he asked


[7/1/2020 9:15 PM] aceat64
he kept defending lol


[7/1/2020 9:15 PM] yashsedai
Well, after his reading of the financial policy, I can't say I'm surprised he could interpret it


[7/1/2020 9:16 PM] draco_the_drake
I am not for Kris or Stan being reinstated until they decide to come forth and ask for a hearing to present their case.   Then and only then the board might decide to reconsider.  Until then it is a moot point.


[7/1/2020 9:17 PM] yashsedai
Also dagron, you never answered my question, are people entitled to sleep at the space?


[7/1/2020 9:17 PM] yashsedai
If so, why.


[7/1/2020 9:17 PM] draco_the_drake
They are allowed to nap in the sitting position per the rules.


[7/1/2020 9:17 PM] draco_the_drake
for I believe 20 min at a time


[7/1/2020 9:20 PM] yashsedai
So explain your statement above then?


[7/1/2020 9:20 PM] yashsedai
You act like the D&O are being harsh?


[7/1/2020 9:20 PM] yashsedai
For enforcing said rule?


[7/1/2020 9:20 PM] yashsedai
And what does that have to do with volunteers?


[7/1/2020 9:20 PM] yashsedai
You think our volunteers sleep at the space?


[7/1/2020 9:20 PM] yashsedai
I'll take a percentage


[7/1/2020 9:20 PM] draco_the_drake
What I was referring to is the expansion of sleeping at the space to include things like red cups and other inexpensive comforts


[7/1/2020 9:21 PM] draco_the_drake
It has been used many times as the excuse to not provide comfort


[7/1/2020 9:21 PM] yashsedai
Oh, so now the members are entitled to red cups?


[7/1/2020 9:21 PM] draco_the_drake
Not entitled


[7/1/2020 9:21 PM] draco_the_drake
no


[7/1/2020 9:21 PM] yashsedai
But thats what you are saying


[7/1/2020 9:21 PM] draco_the_drake
No, I'm saying that many people in this administration are purposely running people off


[7/1/2020 9:22 PM] yashsedai
You are literally arguing that because red cups are cheap DMS should provide them, and that if they don't they are being cheap?


[7/1/2020 9:22 PM] yashsedai
How are they doing that?


[7/1/2020 9:22 PM] yashsedai
Who is being run off?


[7/1/2020 9:22 PM] draco_the_drake
red cups is an example ...


[7/1/2020 9:22 PM] yashsedai
Of what?


[7/1/2020 9:22 PM] yashsedai
how do red cups = people being run off?


[7/1/2020 9:22 PM] draco_the_drake
Of things that were done in the name of not wanting people to feel comfortable


[7/1/2020 9:23 PM] pondit
In a time where DMS charged members who couldnt use the space, and cannot provide many of the things they normally do (I.E the fridge and ice) are cups that big of a deal?

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[7/1/2020 9:23 PM] quattroquattro
Oddly now that no one lives at the space no one complains about red cups.

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[7/1/2020 9:23 PM] yashsedai
How were people made to feel "uncomfortable"?


[7/1/2020 9:23 PM] draco_the_drake
This started many months before Covid


[7/1/2020 9:23 PM] yashsedai
You mean asking captain and beth to clean up?


[7/1/2020 9:24 PM] yashsedai
because people don't want to sit in an area that has 47 packages of single serve silverware and 23 bags from tif's treats?


[7/1/2020 9:24 PM] yashsedai
Cause last i checked captain and beth are still members


[7/1/2020 9:24 PM] draco_the_drake
That was another instance .. cleaning up had nothing to do with it   .. people threatened to put their stuff in lost and found if they stayed too long AFK ...


[7/1/2020 9:25 PM] quattroquattro
I just saw them the other day, they seemed happy when we talked


[7/1/2020 9:25 PM] draco_the_drake
They have adapted but many have not


[7/1/2020 9:25 PM] yashsedai
People threatened to put their stuff in lost and found when they left it unatteneded when they were not at the space.


[7/1/2020 9:25 PM] yashsedai
So now we should have assigned seats in the common room to "make people feel comfortable" ? How would that work?


[7/1/2020 9:25 PM] yashsedai
Are some pigs more equal than others?


[7/1/2020 9:25 PM] brsims2406
Beth seems fine to me, and she is leaving her personal items in the common room every single day. I don't think anybody's moved them into purgatory or even really bitched at her about it yet.


[7/1/2020 9:26 PM] yashsedai
So if we let everyone do it, then it will look like their old red pickup?


[7/1/2020 9:26 PM] draco_the_drake
Many of the officers including you @yashsedai have yelled at people many times in front of other members.   This is not appropriate.   Julie was seen laughing about it.


[7/1/2020 9:26 PM] yashsedai
Oh, so now its about yelling at people


[7/1/2020 9:26 PM] yashsedai
And in what context did that occur?


[7/1/2020 9:26 PM] aceat64
Draco, where was your concern when your friends were sexually harassing women and running them off?


[7/1/2020 9:26 PM] draco_the_drake
It is a combination of things


[7/1/2020 9:27 PM] draco_the_drake
not one


[7/1/2020 9:27 PM] yashsedai
Keep telling us


[7/1/2020 9:27 PM] yashsedai
I'm listening


[7/1/2020 9:27 PM] pondit
that is pretty shitty. I got yelled at for useing the loading ramp recently... like I cant use the ramp for 5 min?


[7/1/2020 9:27 PM] yashsedai
@Pondit you might just hold up before you believe this bs

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[7/1/2020 9:27 PM] canibalcrab
depends what you were doing on the ramp


[7/1/2020 9:28 PM] pondit
Im not saying you did anyting, I dont know you. I just know im a member and didnt feel welcome there yesterday.


[7/1/2020 9:28 PM] canibalcrab
not sure who yelled at you


[7/1/2020 9:28 PM] draco_the_drake
@aceat64  ... I am definitely not for people sexually harassing anyone


[7/1/2020 9:28 PM] yashsedai
Ask around, if I raised my voice, it was for a legit reason.


[7/1/2020 9:29 PM] draco_the_drake
Doesn't matter if you think it was legit .. it wasn't appropriate for an officer


[7/1/2020 9:29 PM] draco_the_drake
and it causes problems with others


[7/1/2020 9:29 PM] yashsedai
Draco, sorry bud, there are some situations where somone has to be in charge.


[7/1/2020 9:29 PM] draco_the_drake
There ya go .. not understanding leadership and thinking yelling is the answer


[7/1/2020 9:30 PM] yashsedai
There you go not understanding that all resources are exhausted before raising voices.


[7/1/2020 9:30 PM] yashsedai
And how dare you assume anything. Were you there?


[7/1/2020 9:30 PM] yashsedai
Nah, you weren't


[7/1/2020 9:30 PM] canibalcrab
like that time i yelled at larry garcia?


[7/1/2020 9:30 PM] yashsedai
lol prolly


[7/1/2020 9:31 PM] canibalcrab
was that an instance you are speaking of @Draco ?


[7/1/2020 9:33 PM] draco_the_drake
It wasn't Larry ..


[7/1/2020 9:33 PM] yashsedai
Then who was it?


[7/1/2020 9:33 PM] aceat64
yeah, love the Draco crew saying @pearce yelled at Larry, when I was there and it wasn't even heated, Pearce was really nice about it


[7/1/2020 9:34 PM] aceat64
_and there's an audio recording proving that_


[7/1/2020 9:34 PM] yashsedai
was it paden?


[7/1/2020 9:34 PM] draco_the_drake
I'm not saying anything about Larry


[7/1/2020 9:35 PM] draco_the_drake
How many people have you yelled at, at the space anyway?


[7/1/2020 9:35 PM] canibalcrab
thats what im asking for


[7/1/2020 9:35 PM] draco_the_drake
I would like to know that as well


[7/1/2020 9:35 PM] aceat64
he never has specifics, except for the provably wrong stuff

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[7/1/2020 9:35 PM] draco_the_drake
@yashsedai care to enlighten us?


[7/1/2020 9:35 PM] canibalcrab
you seem to be lacking any evidence


[7/1/2020 9:35 PM] draco_the_drake
I'm not providing it here


[7/1/2020 9:35 PM] yashsedai
I know the number and can name the instances and what it was about


[7/1/2020 9:36 PM] aceat64
"officers yell at people, trust me" -guy who can't be trusted


[7/1/2020 9:36 PM] yashsedai
Sounds like your full of it then dagron


[7/1/2020 9:36 PM] quattroquattro
Draco is always lacking evidence, and now the goal posts will be moved...

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[7/1/2020 9:36 PM] draco_the_drake
But in general if you feel you have to yell at a member, and do so, it better be an emergency


[7/1/2020 9:36 PM] canibalcrab
cant post it here, too dangerous


[7/1/2020 9:36 PM] yashsedai
how do i say this dagron? "put up or shut up"


[7/1/2020 9:36 PM] canibalcrab
might get called out


[7/1/2020 9:36 PM] draco_the_drake
I have no reason to release it here


[7/1/2020 9:36 PM] yashsedai
You have no reason because you don't know


[7/1/2020 9:37 PM] yashsedai
You just "know" what you heard


[7/1/2020 9:37 PM] draco_the_drake
*shrugs* .. the interviews will come out


[7/1/2020 9:37 PM] jebbabushka
:teayoda:


[7/1/2020 9:37 PM] aceat64
oooooo the interviews


[7/1/2020 9:37 PM] yashsedai
oh?


[7/1/2020 9:37 PM] aceat64
that movie wasn't very good imo


[7/1/2020 9:37 PM] canibalcrab
like joe king? where i wasnt an officer


[7/1/2020 9:37 PM] yashsedai
LOL like joe king


[7/1/2020 9:38 PM] brsims2406
I think he should post it on talk, that last hit piece he tried on me went well for him. Lol. 🤣


[7/1/2020 9:38 PM] draco_the_drake
My point wasn't specific .. it was general ..


[7/1/2020 9:38 PM] yashsedai
sounds like it was bullshit cause you have no proof


[7/1/2020 9:38 PM] draco_the_drake
@yashsedai admits he yells at members in front of others


[7/1/2020 9:38 PM] yashsedai
cite or it didn't happen


[7/1/2020 9:38 PM] draco_the_drake
this is a problem


[7/1/2020 9:38 PM] yashsedai
Context is everything buddy


[7/1/2020 9:38 PM] canibalcrab
yeah youre gonna have to do better


[7/1/2020 9:39 PM] canibalcrab
it takes a lot to get me to yell


[7/1/2020 9:39 PM] yashsedai
you gonna trot out ole mark who refused to leave?


[7/1/2020 9:39 PM] yashsedai
maybe the multiple trespassings


[7/1/2020 9:39 PM] yashsedai
or the crazy guy


[7/1/2020 9:39 PM] yashsedai
or the metal shop incident


[7/1/2020 9:39 PM] yashsedai
which one draco


[7/1/2020 9:40 PM] yashsedai
how about zach of all trades


[7/1/2020 9:40 PM] michaelb5250
https://tenor.com/view/doubt-gif-13250124

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[7/1/2020 9:40 PM] michaelb5250
> pearce was really nice about it
@aceat64


[7/1/2020 9:40 PM] yashsedai
So dagron, what does this have to do with the DMS now?


[7/1/2020 9:41 PM] yashsedai
I'm neither officer nor potential board member


[7/1/2020 9:41 PM] aceat64
he used his "retail manager" skills


[7/1/2020 9:42 PM] canibalcrab
people who threaten my volunteers dont get to yell at me and then expect me to sing them a song


[7/1/2020 9:42 PM] quattroquattro
You know the thing is, all this shit Draco and the blue tape crew stir up is so disconnected from the actual activity at the space. It's been really nice being around all the makers and new volunteers. Seeing the expansion proceeding and all its been really wonderful


[7/1/2020 9:43 PM] jebbabushka
https://tenor.com/view/southpark-beat-horse-dead-gif-3799565

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Beating a dead horse - south park
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[7/1/2020 9:43 PM] aceat64
maybe Draco's mad that someone yelled at the guy who threatened to punch Mel because she asked if he'd move his motorcycle from infront of the door for a bit so she could move some stuff


[7/1/2020 9:44 PM] canibalcrab
claiming "he yelled at me and hurt my feels" doesnt apply when someone is doing something unsafe and it needs to be stopped quickly


[7/1/2020 9:44 PM] quattroquattro
The machine shop group is kick ass, jewelry and ceramics are doing great, Paul did a great job with woodshop, Michael with laser,


[7/1/2020 9:45 PM] jebbabushka
God damn if your fee fees get hurt because someone "took a tone with you" maybe figure out your shit


[7/1/2020 9:45 PM] draco_the_drake
I'm not complaining about the committees or expansion .. except perhaps when it was done


[7/1/2020 9:45 PM] draco_the_drake
I think both of those are great


[7/1/2020 9:45 PM] aceat64
"I'm not complaining" -guy who is complaining


[7/1/2020 9:45 PM] draco_the_drake
Lots of thanks needs to be given for all of that


[7/1/2020 9:45 PM] aceat64
this is fun


[7/1/2020 9:45 PM] peasandclams
https://tenor.com/view/alli-speed-epic-shit-show-crappy-gif-11254149

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[7/1/2020 9:45 PM] quattroquattro
It's been great working on growth and progress. All this complaining is really just them being mad they don't get their way anymore and can't have vodka night at the picnic table anymore


[7/1/2020 9:46 PM] jebbabushka
but muh booze

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[7/1/2020 9:46 PM] quattroquattro
They actually mention booze on their campaign site


[7/1/2020 9:46 PM] axeonos
the drinking game was last night but i still have some everclear left....

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[7/1/2020 9:47 PM] aceat64
fun fact, insurance told us IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that we CAN NOT have alcohol on site


[7/1/2020 9:47 PM] draco_the_drake
Oh don't worry vodka night  James ... another unneeded thing done in an unscheduled meeting to make people feel uncomfortable


[7/1/2020 9:48 PM] draco_the_drake
Specifically .. people that hung around Kris ... it was on purpose


[7/1/2020 9:48 PM] quattroquattro
Booze and power tools, what could go wrong


[7/1/2020 9:48 PM] michaelb5250
😂 I can't believe 'vodka night' gets brought up this much, made for an entertaining tuesday night. Unless there's some other non-tuesday event I don't know about


[7/1/2020 9:48 PM] draco_the_drake
Nothing did go wrong, James


[7/1/2020 9:48 PM] draco_the_drake
except people dancing


[7/1/2020 9:48 PM] axeonos
for what its worth, i was drinking AT HOME....


[7/1/2020 9:49 PM] peasandclams
Fun fact: If an insurance company says no alcohol then its in the best interest not to have any.

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[7/1/2020 9:49 PM] draco_the_drake
It is easy to get insurance for it


[7/1/2020 9:49 PM] draco_the_drake
which has been pointed out many times


[7/1/2020 9:49 PM] draco_the_drake
not expensive


[7/1/2020 9:49 PM] peasandclams
Okay


[7/1/2020 9:49 PM] peasandclams
but insurance company said


[7/1/2020 9:49 PM] peasandclams
No


[7/1/2020 9:49 PM] jebbabushka
I'm sorry what world do you live in where you think drinking around power tools is fine


[7/1/2020 9:49 PM] jebbabushka
one mistake and the DMS is shut down


[7/1/2020 9:50 PM] peasandclams
i havent been this desperate to drink somewhere since i was a minor.

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[7/1/2020 9:50 PM] jebbabushka
what mental gymnastics are you doing to try and validate that?


[7/1/2020 9:50 PM] draco_the_drake
No I don't think being drunk at the space is good at all


[7/1/2020 9:50 PM] axeonos
lasers and alcohol are a delightful combination.... but not one i suggest


[7/1/2020 9:50 PM] quattroquattro
Goal post move in 5.4.3.2.1


[7/1/2020 9:51 PM] draco_the_drake
As far as powertools ... getting to that James


[7/1/2020 9:51 PM] aceat64
> It is easy to get insurance for it
@Draco it literally isn't


[7/1/2020 9:51 PM] quattroquattro
I can't even see his posts but he's that predictable


[7/1/2020 9:51 PM] aceat64
I can tell you have never talked to an insurance broker about this


[7/1/2020 9:51 PM] canibalcrab
we arent a bar


[7/1/2020 9:51 PM] peasandclams
I'm sure theres plenty of isopropyl waiting to be consumed. Have at it.


[7/1/2020 9:51 PM] draco_the_drake
There hasn't been an incident and I think people can make sure people aren't using dangerous tools while drunk.


[7/1/2020 9:51 PM] aceat64
there's almost no insurance companies that will insure DMS period


[7/1/2020 9:52 PM] jebbabushka
you have the worst arguments


[7/1/2020 9:52 PM] draco_the_drake
in fact, I think drunk people should be made to leave


[7/1/2020 9:52 PM] jebbabushka
"just because it hasn't happen doesnt it mean it will" is what you sound like


[7/1/2020 9:52 PM] aceat64
yeah, make them drive home, good policy


[7/1/2020 9:52 PM] canibalcrab
you are a fool and im thankful you arent running for board

{Reactions}
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[7/1/2020 9:52 PM] draco_the_drake
How about make them get a cab or Uber?


[7/1/2020 9:52 PM] aceat64
and if they don't?


[7/1/2020 9:52 PM] jebbabushka
or... and a wild idea, just don't let them drink on the property


[7/1/2020 9:52 PM] jebbabushka
problem solved


[7/1/2020 9:52 PM] canibalcrab
we have had incidents


[7/1/2020 9:52 PM] aceat64
Kris literally danced drunk on a table at DMS, while president


[7/1/2020 9:53 PM] draco_the_drake
I've already mentioned that earlier


[7/1/2020 9:53 PM] draco_the_drake
pay attention


[7/1/2020 9:53 PM] jebbabushka
but it's more than just problems with power tools, people drink and become  violent


[7/1/2020 9:53 PM] aceat64
> There hasn't been an incident and I think people can make sure people aren't using dangerous tools while drunk.
@Draco so false it's laughable


[7/1/2020 9:53 PM] peasandclams
> Kris literally danced drunk on a table at DMS, while president
@aceat64

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[7/1/2020 9:53 PM] draco_the_drake
If you think a table is a powertool ... lol


[7/1/2020 9:53 PM] pondit
members shouldnt have to stop drunk members for doing things.


[7/1/2020 9:53 PM] canibalcrab
nacho pulled the fire alarm while drunk, the fire department wasted resources coming out to what they thought was an emergency, AND THEN kris decided it was a good idea to lie to the fire department about it and cover up for him


[7/1/2020 9:54 PM] aceat64
you know what really helps retain members, having to deal with drunk people, everyone loves doing that when they're just trying to build stuff


[7/1/2020 9:54 PM] draco_the_drake
I think he should have used that on his SoI ... "Fire drills every month"


[7/1/2020 9:54 PM] jebbabushka
lets get drunk guys and do stupid shit, like pull fire alarms, sexually harass people, start fights


[7/1/2020 9:54 PM] quattroquattro
There were two other alcohol related incidents that involved the cops


[7/1/2020 9:55 PM] yashsedai
lol


[7/1/2020 9:55 PM] draco_the_drake
but talk about moving the goalposts .... This didn't start out talking about alcohol ... just another example


[7/1/2020 9:55 PM] draco_the_drake
of many


[7/1/2020 9:55 PM] jebbabushka
because that's what you do


[7/1/2020 9:55 PM] yashsedai
an example of your impotence?


[7/1/2020 9:55 PM] yashsedai
i mean insolence?


[7/1/2020 9:55 PM] canibalcrab
oh yeah


[7/1/2020 9:55 PM] canibalcrab
give us instances of me yelling at people


[7/1/2020 9:56 PM] jebbabushka
"I go these secret things I dont wanna talk about to garner intrigue"


[7/1/2020 9:56 PM] jebbabushka
childish


[7/1/2020 9:56 PM] yashsedai
he ain't got any


[7/1/2020 9:56 PM] pondit
its a real shame people cant keep things civil in here


[7/1/2020 9:56 PM] draco_the_drake
More insults .. come to expect it from Freddy


[7/1/2020 9:56 PM] draco_the_drake
@Pondit ... I am sorry


[7/1/2020 9:57 PM] draco_the_drake
We have alot of bad blood at the space ... and this is one of the camps


[7/1/2020 9:57 PM] yashsedai
impotence is an accurate statement


[7/1/2020 9:57 PM] yashsedai


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[7/1/2020 9:57 PM] yashsedai
google it


[7/1/2020 9:57 PM] aceat64
well having my friends sexually harassed, getting attacked for discovering fraud and then to have my rep constantly shat on tends to make one a bit upset


[7/1/2020 9:57 PM] quattroquattro
@Pondit Draco personally harassed me outside of the space


[7/1/2020 9:58 PM] quattroquattro
I have zero respect for him.


[7/1/2020 9:58 PM] draco_the_drake
Oh you mean telling you I didn't want you on the board in a PM?


[7/1/2020 9:58 PM] aceat64
Draco's "camp" also likes to threaten to hit people, so I'd say some mean text chat is pretty civil


[7/1/2020 9:59 PM] quattroquattro
The discussion is somewhere far above here, but what he did in the interest of being king of the keyboard warriors was inexcusable


[7/1/2020 9:59 PM] draco_the_drake
@aceat64 you seem to enjoy making frivolous law suits to previous board members


[7/1/2020 9:59 PM] draco_the_drake
costing DMS


[7/1/2020 9:59 PM] aceat64
incorrect


[7/1/2020 9:59 PM] aceat64
DMS has spent no money on it, because it doesn't involve them


[7/1/2020 9:59 PM] aceat64
and all I asked for was an apology


[7/1/2020 10:00 PM] draco_the_drake
Sorry .. DMS Insurance paid


[7/1/2020 10:00 PM] aceat64
it's your friends who decided apologizing for lying about me was a bridge too far


[7/1/2020 10:00 PM] draco_the_drake
and is paying


[7/1/2020 10:00 PM] draco_the_drake
The first judge decided to dismiss it


[7/1/2020 10:00 PM] aceat64
yeah, that's standard for these suits


[7/1/2020 10:00 PM] aceat64
it always goes to appeals


[7/1/2020 10:00 PM] aceat64
it's a filter


[7/1/2020 10:01 PM] jebbabushka
what ever you gotta do to spin it in your favor I guess


[7/1/2020 10:01 PM] draco_the_drake
It doesn't always go to appeals ... you have to submit it


[7/1/2020 10:01 PM] aceat64
your friends said I committed a crime, because as a member of the finance team I pointed out to the membership that they were lying about the state of our finances


[7/1/2020 10:01 PM] draco_the_drake
You decided you didn't think it was fair to pay the legal costs


[7/1/2020 10:01 PM] aceat64
the current board turned the finances around, DMS would have already died


[7/1/2020 10:01 PM] draco_the_drake
something like $12 thousand


[7/1/2020 10:02 PM] aceat64
I asked for an apology long before it went to court


[7/1/2020 10:02 PM] aceat64
that's how this works Draco


[7/1/2020 10:02 PM] draco_the_drake
As far as the finances .. we did go negative net income but that was expected, we had saved for it


[7/1/2020 10:02 PM] aceat64
their response was literally "we have nothing to apologize for, see you in court"


[7/1/2020 10:03 PM] quattroquattro
We didn't spend a penny on the suit. We did lose a lot of dollars to dracos friends Kris and Stan ripping us off


[7/1/2020 10:03 PM] aceat64
your friends decided to waste the insurance money on this


[7/1/2020 10:03 PM] quattroquattro
Insurance rate didn't change...


[7/1/2020 10:03 PM] draco_the_drake
DMS insurance sure is paying .. how many more frivolous law suits before we don't have D&O protection?


[7/1/2020 10:04 PM] aceat64
Draco, there's literally emails from the 3rd party accounting firm saying you're wrong


[7/1/2020 10:04 PM] jebbabushka
seems like your friends are just wanting to waste time on a lawsuit where all they needed to do was apologize


[7/1/2020 10:04 PM] jebbabushka
¯\_(ツ)_/¯


[7/1/2020 10:04 PM] aceat64
I'll still accept an apology


[7/1/2020 10:04 PM] draco_the_drake
Apologize for suspending him for 9 months?  Or putting his name in the minutes?


[7/1/2020 10:05 PM] quattroquattro
I'd accept reimbursement for all the money they stole from the membership


[7/1/2020 10:05 PM] aceat64
I would like an apology for their inappropriate behavior involving removing the finance team


[7/1/2020 10:05 PM] draco_the_drake
I believe I heard that Kris had already paid back anything the bookkeeper thought was off


[7/1/2020 10:05 PM] aceat64
your friends literally removed all oversight on finances WHILE STEALING


[7/1/2020 10:05 PM] aceat64
and you think they're the good guys


[7/1/2020 10:05 PM] draco_the_drake
I don't support Kris

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[7/1/2020 10:06 PM] aceat64
Draco, the evidence is on the fucking wiki, she didn't


[7/1/2020 10:06 PM] aceat64
keep your head in the sand


[7/1/2020 10:06 PM] draco_the_drake
Well, I just know the judge didn't think it was worth going through with a trial and dismissed it


[7/1/2020 10:06 PM] aceat64
you victim blame literally every time involving your friends

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[7/1/2020 10:07 PM] draco_the_drake
I believe he also had a strong talk to your attorney as well


[7/1/2020 10:07 PM] aceat64
here's how I know you are full of shit


[7/1/2020 10:07 PM] aceat64
the judge was a WOMAN


[7/1/2020 10:07 PM] draco_the_drake
I wasn't there


[7/1/2020 10:07 PM] aceat64
clearly


[7/1/2020 10:07 PM] judykriehn3727
exactly. You are providing arguments that any tv lawyer would object to as "hearsay"


[7/1/2020 10:07 PM] aceat64
feel free to grab the transcript from the court Draco


[7/1/2020 10:07 PM] draco_the_drake
Sherry Shipman


[7/1/2020 10:08 PM] draco_the_drake
or somethign like that


[7/1/2020 10:08 PM] jebbabushka
https://tenor.com/view/lord-help-me-judge-judy-facepalm-gif-12371798

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[7/1/2020 10:08 PM] aceat64
Draco, do you think asking for an apology is unreasonable?


[7/1/2020 10:08 PM] draco_the_drake
Sorry for not using the proper pronoun


[7/1/2020 10:10 PM] draco_the_drake
I think suing over it is


[7/1/2020 10:10 PM] draco_the_drake
I mean what could even be your damages?


[7/1/2020 10:11 PM] draco_the_drake
monetarily?


[7/1/2020 10:11 PM] aceat64
yes


[7/1/2020 10:11 PM] canibalcrab
the og filing didnt have damages


[7/1/2020 10:11 PM] aceat64
harm to my reputation (which they did by lying) harms my ability to find work


[7/1/2020 10:11 PM] draco_the_drake
That it is in the minutes?


[7/1/2020 10:12 PM] draco_the_drake
We have a standing rule that provides for it to not be scrubbed of identifying information.


[7/1/2020 10:12 PM] aceat64
that's irrelevant, the issue is that they lied


[7/1/2020 10:12 PM] aceat64
they claimed I violated a law which doesn't exist, by telling them membership about the state of the finances


[7/1/2020 10:13 PM] aceat64
"violated attorney client privilege"


[7/1/2020 10:13 PM] aceat64
their own lawyer _in the meeting_ told them that was not correct

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[7/1/2020 10:13 PM] aceat64
Kris literally told him to shut up lol


[7/1/2020 10:14 PM] aceat64
your friends made provably false claims about my character and actions, in order to hide fraud


[7/1/2020 10:14 PM] aceat64
but keep defending them


[7/1/2020 10:14 PM] draco_the_drake
They can ban you from the space for things that are not against' the law.   You are claiming that because someone accused you of breaking a law, even if the law doesn't exist .. that you are entitled to damages?


[7/1/2020 10:14 PM] aceat64
I'm cool being the boogie man for your "camp" with this


[7/1/2020 10:15 PM] aceat64
yes, that's how defamation works


[7/1/2020 10:16 PM] draco_the_drake
Well, the court has say in this .. and the first judge didn't agree


[7/1/2020 10:16 PM] aceat64
again, look up defamation cases in Texas, that's how this works


[7/1/2020 10:16 PM] yashsedai
maybe go read the damn court documents....


[7/1/2020 10:16 PM] aceat64
the first judge almost always kicks it off to someone else


[7/1/2020 10:17 PM] draco_the_drake
Naw .. most of the time it is appealed because people don't like the judgement


[7/1/2020 10:17 PM] aceat64
local courts aren't often keen to handle these sorts of cases


[7/1/2020 10:17 PM] patrickpleez1
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[7/1/2020 10:17 PM] patrickpleez1
https://tenor.com/M2yI.gif

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https://tenor.com/view/popcorn-popcornday-national-popcorn-day-gif-9265562
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[7/1/2020 10:17 PM] patrickpleez1


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[7/1/2020 10:17 PM] draco_the_drake
It was just something you put up there to keep Kris and them out of power anyway


[7/1/2020 10:17 PM] aceat64
Draco, you confused a conflict of interest with a non-compete, your legal insight is lacking

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[7/1/2020 10:17 PM] patrickpleez1
Only took me 30 minutes.


[7/1/2020 10:18 PM] draco_the_drake
at least that was the result


[7/1/2020 10:18 PM] patrickpleez1
I suck at discord

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[7/1/2020 10:18 PM] aceat64
lol how does a lawsuit do that


[7/1/2020 10:19 PM] pondit
Fun fact, Non-Competes are almost impossible to enforce.

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[7/1/2020 10:19 PM] aceat64
yup


[7/1/2020 10:19 PM] aceat64
I've signed a few


[7/1/2020 10:19 PM] draco_the_drake
When you convince  the board to reinstate you and make sure that all of you do not get appointed to any position?


[7/1/2020 10:19 PM] pondit
if its someones only way of making a living, the judge will often make exceptions


[7/1/2020 10:19 PM] aceat64
I wasn't present during any of that Draco, and I didn't talk to the board about any of that, but keep living in your fantasy where I'm some mastermind pulling all the strings


[7/1/2020 10:20 PM] draco_the_drake
Ken is on the board


[7/1/2020 10:20 PM] draco_the_drake
Ken was a part of all of it


[7/1/2020 10:20 PM] quattroquattro
Texas goes even further, of your role didn't entitle you to knowledge of the company strategy they won't enforce it


[7/1/2020 10:20 PM] aceat64
Texas won't really enforce non-competes except for stuff involving IP


[7/1/2020 10:20 PM] quattroquattro
So only VP or c level


[7/1/2020 10:20 PM] aceat64
I think I've only seen it successful for sales guys who took their client list lol


[7/1/2020 10:21 PM] quattroquattro
Yeah, he was privy to strategy


[7/1/2020 10:21 PM] quattroquattro
With the client list


[7/1/2020 10:21 PM] quattroquattro
That I've seen


[7/1/2020 10:21 PM] patrickpleez1
Draco. What exactly is your argument


[7/1/2020 10:21 PM] aceat64
Blue Hair Man Bad


[7/1/2020 10:22 PM] draco_the_drake
Hey James .. What email list are you using to send out campaign emails?


[7/1/2020 10:22 PM] aceat64
I should probably change my name, this one is getting boring


[7/1/2020 10:22 PM] patrickpleez1
Blue haired man not terrible in my opinion...


[7/1/2020 10:22 PM] draco_the_drake
Are you using Active Directory?


[7/1/2020 10:22 PM] draco_the_drake
to get your emails?


[7/1/2020 10:23 PM] aceat64
here we go, changed my name some


[7/1/2020 10:23 PM] draco_the_drake
Well at least you aren't hated anymore


[7/1/2020 10:23 PM] doug.emes
satying out of this, but you are the Diet Coke of Evil

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[7/1/2020 10:23 PM] draco_the_drake
Me?


[7/1/2020 10:23 PM] doug.emes
no, my smurf buddy


[7/1/2020 10:24 PM] draco_the_drake
oh lol


[7/1/2020 10:24 PM] doug.emes
as in, its a funny joke from mike myers


[7/1/2020 10:24 PM] draco_the_drake
Just don't call him a "skittle head" .. he put that in his suit


[7/1/2020 10:25 PM] patrickpleez1
Draco. I am curious. Why the hard defense of people who wronged the space


[7/1/2020 10:27 PM] draco_the_drake
People that have wronged the space .. should be punished ... keeping all of the process private and in unscheduled meetings is not how we have handled things before this year.   It causes rumors and issues.   I want the new board to be upfront and build trust.


[7/1/2020 10:27 PM] canibalcrab
You caused rumors

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[7/1/2020 10:27 PM] draco_the_drake
What would that be?


[7/1/2020 10:27 PM] aceat64
@doug.emes technically the smurfs don't have hair


[7/1/2020 10:27 PM] aceat64
except the old one who had a beard


[7/1/2020 10:28 PM] aceat64
I'm just a generic anime protagonist


[7/1/2020 10:28 PM] canibalcrab
You constantly perpetuate the rumor that people will get banned for "speaking up"


[7/1/2020 10:28 PM] quattroquattro
@aceat64 so you are saying smurfette has a wig?


[7/1/2020 10:28 PM] patrickpleez1
Why should we keep discipline an open thing? Why should investigations be open?


[7/1/2020 10:28 PM] aceat64
smurfette isn't a smurf


[7/1/2020 10:28 PM] aceat64
she was made by gargamel to infiltrate them


[7/1/2020 10:29 PM] toenolla
Man I forgot about that dumb plotline


[7/1/2020 10:29 PM] quattroquattro
@aceat64 indeed, your Smurf knowledge is strong, I had forgotten that


[7/1/2020 10:29 PM] aceat64
lol


[7/1/2020 10:29 PM] aceat64
I have a lot of useful and useless knowledge


[7/1/2020 10:29 PM] patrickpleez1
I think the way this board handled the investigation and discipline was eloquent.

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[7/1/2020 10:29 PM] draco_the_drake
I feel it is true.  I think this D&O targets people that do not like what they have to say and will use any excuse and all evidence they can find to make sure that they get banned.   You see evidence of this in the SoI threads.  Dredging up all kinds of past things and throwing it in their faces.


[7/1/2020 10:30 PM] patrickpleez1
Discipline shouldn’t be an open eye thing. Should be a meeting the way it is.


[7/1/2020 10:30 PM] aceat64
Draco, do you feel the previous board did that as well?


[7/1/2020 10:30 PM] draco_the_drake
I do to a smaller extent


[7/1/2020 10:30 PM] aceat64
smaller, when they did it to cover fraud, love your priorities man


[7/1/2020 10:30 PM] patrickpleez1
The work place doesn’t bring anyone in for a public flogging. It’s behind closed doors.

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[7/1/2020 10:31 PM] draco_the_drake
I don't think what you did, Andrew, as far as releasing the email should be bannable .. I don't agree with you getting banned for that.   I think the documents should be avaliable to the membership.


[7/1/2020 10:31 PM] quattroquattro
A group our size needs a professional hr process


[7/1/2020 10:31 PM] draco_the_drake
Well, we went back a few years in membership


[7/1/2020 10:31 PM] patrickpleez1
Absolutely. @quattroquattro


[7/1/2020 10:32 PM] draco_the_drake
I think we are at the 2016 range now


[7/1/2020 10:32 PM] patrickpleez1
Draco, size doesn’t matter. The discipline process should have never been a song, dick, and dance process.


[7/1/2020 10:33 PM] patrickpleez1
What benefit is it having it be in front of membership.


[7/1/2020 10:33 PM] quattroquattro
@Patrickpleez1 I've never heard that expression, but I like it


[7/1/2020 10:33 PM] patrickpleez1
This isn’t a fucking Masonic Lodge. It’s a YMCA at best. With tools.


[7/1/2020 10:34 PM] draco_the_drake
Public courts are public for a reason.   Anyone can view most of the documents and judgements in a court with some exceptions.  This leads to fairness and the ability to look back into cases and see how things were handled.  We are no different.


[7/1/2020 10:34 PM] draco_the_drake
I do not think sexual assult cases should be public


[7/1/2020 10:34 PM] draco_the_drake
one of the exceptions


[7/1/2020 10:35 PM] toenolla
BTW @Draco regardless of the current conversation, I think Freddy's behavior towards you is harassing and he should be removed from the discord, honestly.

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[7/1/2020 10:35 PM] patrickpleez1
We aren’t a public court. We are a paid membership. A business if you will... So a private HR process is more towards our gearing.


[7/1/2020 10:36 PM] draco_the_drake
We are a community first and foremost.   Committees have Governments .. as I said before it is in the bylaws ... we are more similar to a church/community center with tools than a corporate business


[7/1/2020 10:38 PM] yashsedai
@Toenolla good thing its not your call


[7/1/2020 10:39 PM] yashsedai
maybe you can go cry in your private channel to all your buds and they will do it


[7/1/2020 10:43 PM] yashsedai
here comes the kumbaya from dagron


[7/1/2020 10:44 PM] yashsedai
lets all hum it to our selves and make macaroni pictures


[7/1/2020 11:03 PM] toenolla
We can have public or private hearings, but either way we have to take a record of names when we decide to ban people.


[7/1/2020 11:05 PM] yashsedai
we already have this...


[7/1/2020 11:05 PM] toenolla
Private channel? I don't even know how to make one of those.


[7/1/2020 11:07 PM] draco_the_drake
I think the admins have to make it.  Like the Covid channel.


[7/1/2020 11:09 PM] toenolla
Shrug. If I could say that in some magical private channel, I wouldn't be saying it in the public one.


[7/1/2020 11:12 PM] draco_the_drake
I think it benefits people that have most board meetings scheduled and open.  Now, there may be a need for many of them and that is fine or a need for a few closed ones.   But the way things have been going this past year is that the D&O have a working meeting and get together talk about things and come to a consensus and hold a special meeting soon after and vote unanimously.   This leaves the membership completely out of the loop.   If they streamed the working meetings that would be an improvement or even notes


[7/1/2020 11:12 PM] nullinterface
Mobile app has changed and *blocked means **blocked***.  Dilemma.


[7/1/2020 11:13 PM] toenolla
Shit I should update


[7/1/2020 11:14 PM] yashsedai
lol


[7/1/2020 11:14 PM] yashsedai
you could be rid of me 🙂


[7/1/2020 11:30 PM] stephenie.
> You constantly perpetuate the rumor that people will get banned for "speaking up"
@pearce That's definitely a false rumor because Draco is still here.

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[7/1/2020 11:38 PM] draco_the_drake
Yeah I explained that above ...


[7/1/2020 11:44 PM] stephenie.
> I think this D&O targets people that do not like what they have to say and will use any excuse and all evidence they can find to make sure that they get banned.  
@Draco They.do.not.  Otherwise you would have been banned ages ago.  So stop saying that.

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[7/1/2020 11:49 PM] kenpurcell
@Draco why do you have such lust for backing the crimes of the previous BoD, they had lots of secret meetings without minutes


[7/1/2020 11:50 PM] draco_the_drake
I've said it before and i will say it again .. I am not for crimes or theft ...nor am I for secret meetings with or without minutes


[7/1/2020 11:50 PM] aceat64
sure sure, just for supporting those that did it


[7/1/2020 11:51 PM] aceat64
people-centric


[7/1/2020 11:52 PM] draco_the_drake
Seem like ya'll are spreading rumors about me now ... I'm not supporting Kris and I don't think the board should bring her back without her asking for a hearing and maybe not even then


[7/1/2020 11:53 PM] kenpurcell
It is the BoD's choice to have meeting as long as they waive rights to notice. The membership does not have a say. However what meetings do you see that were "secret" that did DMS business that needed input? Voting to approve expansion bids?


[7/1/2020 11:54 PM] draco_the_drake
The majority of this boards meetings go against this rule "Board meetings will be posted on the Dallas Makerspace Events calendar."


[7/1/2020 11:55 PM] kenpurcell
It's not a rumor, your here praising Her Majesty's Board when they committed real crimes.


[7/1/2020 11:55 PM] stephenie.
> I've said it before and i will say it again .. I am not for crimes or theft ...nor am I for secret meetings with or without minutes
@Draco Go spend a few hours with Kris, Steve, Kessinger, and Chuck raking them over the coals for their undocumented meetings.  Leave us alone.


[7/1/2020 11:57 PM] draco_the_drake
I'm not praising them for commiting crimes..


[7/1/2020 11:58 PM] kenpurcell
You are holding them to a significantly lower standard of behaviour

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[7/1/2020 11:58 PM] draco_the_drake
I don't think I've singled them out actually .. I've just said past boards


[7/1/2020 11:59 PM] draco_the_drake
Meaning our normal way of business


[7/1/2020 11:59 PM] draco_the_drake
That includes the boards you were on with Robert and Alex


[7/1/2020 11:59 PM] draco_the_drake
They didn't have many unscheduled meetings


[7/2/2020 12:01 AM] stephenie.
https://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/10/30/circular-conversations

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https://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/10/30/circular-conversations
Circular Conversations — Out of the FOG
Definition:   Circular Conversations - Arguments which go on almost endlessly, repeating the same patterns with no resolution.   Spinning the Wheels in a Rut:   A Circular Conversation happens when both parties have opposing positions on an issue, dig in, and reiterate the mer...


[7/2/2020 12:01 AM] draco_the_drake
I think you may be right .. but I'm not here to convince ya'll


[7/2/2020 12:01 AM] draco_the_drake
just share what I think


[7/2/2020 12:02 AM] nullinterface
My motivation to dig into blocking settings is nil this evening


[7/2/2020 2:17 AM] axeonos
Opinions are like dicks. Not everyone likes what you got.... and no one likes it forced on them.

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[7/3/2020 11:46 PM] aceat64
for running on a platform of "Facilitate trust, communication, and respect" the blue tape slate has been surprisingly non-communicative


[7/3/2020 11:53 PM] andrew5152
DO NOT let @pearce know about this...

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[7/4/2020 2:06 AM] toenolla
You know...I was just thinking today, that what DMS needs most are political parties.


[7/4/2020 2:10 AM] kentamanos
with the obvious hypocrisy some people display, it's obvious we've had nameless ones for a while 🙂


[7/4/2020 2:19 AM] toenolla
?


[7/4/2020 2:36 AM] kentamanos
There are some people who constantly whine about activities of the current board, but they never gave a single critique about prior boards (when their friends were on it). Even when the things they whine about now were done by prior boards as well. People like that might as well have a party designation next to their name IMO. They only care about behavior when it's not their friends in power.

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[7/4/2020 5:50 AM] quattroquattro
@A. Spencer(jast) that has to have been written by Draco, that is his favorite straw man.


[7/4/2020 5:54 AM] quattroquattro
@Kentamanos I'd prefer a reputation flag to show they are just shit posters. Amongst themselves they don't even really like each other. Their uniting factor is they like the free reign Kris Anderson gave them.


[7/4/2020 6:27 AM] andrew5152
Although I agree,  All the posts under "news" say for byline,  and feel like,  style wise,  Joe King


[7/4/2020 7:49 AM] kenpurcell
Instead of a green dot they could have a red circle with a slash


[7/4/2020 7:53 AM] kenpurcell
I thought the guy in the peddle car going uphill was particularly funny!

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[7/4/2020 8:51 AM] quattroquattro
With all the actual work the board has to deal with on a daily basis I wish these fuckwads would just fuck off for at least just one day. For fuck sake its a holiday weekend and they are posting "I am butthurt" videos on Youtube and linkedIn

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[7/4/2020 9:22 AM] noble_goblin
Side note- who do I need to contact to get registered to vote?


[7/4/2020 9:24 AM] quattroquattro
Open a ticket or send an email to admin@dallasmakerspace.org

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[7/4/2020 9:25 AM] andrew5152
typo
I can fix, but prefer to let OP

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[7/4/2020 9:25 AM] quattroquattro
I'll fix it ;)

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[7/4/2020 9:43 AM] nullinterface
Also ... http://votingrights.dallasmakerspace.org/login

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[7/4/2020 9:44 AM] stephenie.
>  all the actual work the board has to deal with on a daily basis
@quattroquattro let's really unpack this.  Covid19 hits.  Government shutdown hits swift.  James, Julie, Ken, Brad, and Lara have full time jobs, with employers to answer to, maybe employees/clients to care for, and companies mobilizing their staff to work from home, on top of job loss fears and a whole lot of unknowns.

Plus  James, Julie, and Ken (I don't know about Brad and Lara) have spouses and children. Those spouses also have employers/employees/clients to keep happy, had to deal with moving work home, and had to worry/plan for job loss.  They had to set up and conduct home schooling.  They had kids underfoot.  Ken's kids were in college, which was a whole other set of problems.  Then came online work and school: were there enough devices for every family member?  Heaven help you if any had little kids - couldn't just park them in front of a computer to self-learn.

And like the rest of us, they had to hunt for groceries etc as inventories disappeared.

And dodge the disease.  And worry/plan for catching the disease.  And oh yeah, those employers to keep happy, those jobs that might get laid off? They provide the health insurance.

Now repeat that burden for the officers and committee chairs.

DMS requires James, Julie, Ken, Lara, and Brad, plus Pearce, Jim, Doug, JJ, chairs and whoever I'm forgetting to labor for FREE. In the midst of extreme personal burdens, they shut down an industrial facility of varied equipment safely and swiftly, carried on with managing construction projects, figured out ways to deliver value to members at home, contributed DMS resources to emergency PPE efforts in ways that were safe, created a reopening plan, implemented reopening plan, are managing an open industrial facility + enforcing safety standards that some are aggressively opposing, dealt with actual death threats, and the nibbling to death by ducks that is Talk and Discord.  

We don't deserve them.

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[7/4/2020 9:45 AM] andrew5152
@NobleGoblin be advised it has...unfortunate behaviors which should be accounted for. Talk is full of stuff, the latest, from Kevin, accusing Jim of it being a conspiracy (it's not; there's just not an error catch for people who already have voting rights and try to add anyway)


[7/4/2020 9:46 AM] quattroquattro
@stephenie thanks for that!


[7/4/2020 9:47 AM] hon1nbo
@A. Spencer(jast) that's not just Joe's style, it says Joe wrote it on the website.
Also @quattroquattro accounts@dallasmakerspace.org for voting rights since that's the ticketing system


[7/4/2020 9:47 AM] hon1nbo
Admin@ is the DnO email inbox


[7/4/2020 9:47 AM] quattroquattro
My mistake


[7/4/2020 9:51 AM] andrew5152
> that's not just Joe's style, it says Joe wrote it on the website

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[7/4/2020 10:08 AM] merissa4308
Hah, I'm particularly amused that they simply removed the number from the date for their own meet the candidates/vodka night

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[7/4/2020 10:41 AM] kenpurcell
@stephenie thanks so much! Without your dedicated help we would not have been able to handle some of the greatest challenges to DMS. And you gave me much needed appropriate feedback. 😉 We (I) appreciate you. It is a community and hope that we all can get together soon.

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[7/4/2020 10:42 AM] kenpurcell


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[7/4/2020 1:59 PM] andrew5152
lukea just raised my opinion of him significantly...
https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/luke-andraski-statement-of-intent-bod-2020-withdrawn-july-4th/70261/18?u=jast

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[7/4/2020 1:59 PM] quattroquattro
Indeed


[7/4/2020 1:59 PM] quattroquattro
That makes me happy. I've taken classes from him and really liked him.


[7/4/2020 2:00 PM] quattroquattro
He taught the light painting class and it was informative and fun.


[7/4/2020 2:11 PM] andrew5152
yeah... I'd like to do that one day. Looks really neat, and fun; definitely way cool when people are good at it...


[7/4/2020 2:15 PM] quattroquattro
It's cool on several levels, first the camera tech, second the performance art when taking the picture and finally most of the light tools are cool things you can build yourself.


[7/4/2020 2:16 PM] quattroquattro
There was a guy that had a glove covered in tiny LEDs that he made, when you ran it through the pictures it looks like smoke. It was totally cool

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[7/4/2020 3:31 PM] noble_goblin
@A. Spencer(jast) I’ve been passively looking at Talk and keeping up with some of the more talked about drama. 

@hon1nbo (k/j/t) exsilium thank you!


[7/5/2020 10:58 AM] quattroquattro
In marks latest campaign video he literally says "I don't work all day to go work at the makerspace" what the ever loving shit does he think it means to be on the board?


[7/5/2020 11:03 AM] quattroquattro
And he's still claiming he's the principal founder in spite of the published evidence and eyewitness testimony....


[7/5/2020 11:05 AM] skyspook
Not sure. At minimum it's gonna be a part time job. I'm of two minds - I would love to help, but also know I'm gonna have a lot of work to do 🙂


[7/5/2020 11:05 AM] skyspook
And yea, after all this evidence his word doesn't hold a lot of weight with me.


[7/5/2020 11:09 AM] quattroquattro
I can honestly say that I have loved my time on the board, the work isn't hard most of the time, and it's meaningful.


[7/5/2020 11:10 AM] quattroquattro
It's hurtful that we get attacked by people like this, it's one thing to engage in direct conversation its completely another to just post hit videos and leak them out to the membership


[7/5/2020 11:12 AM] quattroquattro
I take some consolation in the fact that it appears the membership generally agrees. Their posts get no hearts, their videos have gotten no likes, and even on Mark's personal facebook page there is little meaningful feedback on his trolling


[7/5/2020 11:30 AM] judykriehn3727
Because he invited all those schmucks to meetings with him at El Fenix. Or so he once said.


[7/5/2020 2:48 PM] jebbabushka
I'm a little appalled that Max has an interview video titled "be excellent to each other" but has managed to be a complete ass hole to several women (including myself) and mock their appearance.


[7/5/2020 2:59 PM] themitch22
I would like another 3D fab chair that's not Max, I sure don't volunteer again


[7/5/2020 3:00 PM] themitch22
Have we considered having chair-less committees?


[7/5/2020 3:01 PM] kenpurcell
I have though about it but have to be off the Bod first.


[7/5/2020 3:01 PM] kentamanos
I try not to throw stones at chairs when I have no intention of taking over that duty, but from a mostly outsider POV, it really doesn't seem like he does a good job. The 3D scanner thread that went a full year with all sorts of "it'll be ready any moment now" and "if you want to talk about it, come to the committee meeting"


[7/5/2020 3:03 PM] themitch22
Two $3500 formlabs printers that apparently are dead and not worth repairing


[7/5/2020 3:04 PM] themitch22
I know that's membership too, luckily the technology changed enough we can go with dirt cheap printers and have disposable tools like DMS is use to


[7/5/2020 3:05 PM] themitch22
I would like to revisit the octopuppet thing I don't have a lot of experience setting that up that needs infrastructure help, but nothing is getting decided on


[7/5/2020 3:06 PM] themitch22
But yeah Max has had formal complaints and dumpster fire talk threads. I hate to see 3D fab get abandoned.


[7/5/2020 3:15 PM] quattroquattro
Since reopening we have had a number of technical issues logged and a number of requests for training. Max has not responded to any of them.


[7/5/2020 3:15 PM] kentamanos
I never thought I'd see Max forgive Mark either for putting all those pin holes in his cosplay Star Trek uniform. This is in a thread where Mark effectively wants the record of his banning cleaned up:

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[7/5/2020 3:15 PM] quattroquattro
At a time when the whole world was talking about 3d printing to help doctors and hospitals Max was absent.


[7/5/2020 3:17 PM] quattroquattro
Ha, what a fucking slime ball


[7/5/2020 3:17 PM] kentamanos
it's almost like Mark likes to randomly attach names to his causes to make it seem like more people support him


[7/5/2020 3:17 PM] quattroquattro
He uses people's names to borrow credibility for his cause


[7/5/2020 3:19 PM] quattroquattro
Me and Kanye were talking about it yesterday, by adding other people's names to it he makes it sound like it's not just him looking out for him.

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[7/5/2020 3:20 PM] quattroquattro
Matt Damon agreed with us, Mark's a dick

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[7/5/2020 3:21 PM] kentamanos
hehe


[7/5/2020 3:23 PM] michaelb5250
@themitch22 Laser and 3D Fab both seem more like 'service providers' than committees. I don't know that the solution is to go chair-less but I wouldn't be opposed to changing up their structure vs other committees.

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[7/5/2020 3:26 PM] kentamanos
in your opinion are they more "service providers" because the usage is more "uniform in nature" and more "fire and forget" than say woodshop?


[7/5/2020 3:27 PM] michaelb5250
Right, I'm really not sure if it's a matter of leadership or just the nature of what they do that makes people uninterested in running the committee


[7/5/2020 3:29 PM] kentamanos
just FWIW and from what I've seen, you've done a good job


[7/5/2020 3:29 PM] stephenie.
I had 12, 15, 19+ people active in the Laser committee.  It can be done.


[7/5/2020 3:30 PM] stephenie.
Not throwing stones at Michael!


[7/5/2020 3:30 PM] michaelb5250
At the end of the day, all committees provide some sort of service, and require some maintenance team. But yeah, I think there's a definite 'fire and forget' mentality with both.


[7/5/2020 3:31 PM] michaelb5250
It would be interesting to track the count of how many people use committee tools vs how many show up to meetings.

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[7/5/2020 3:33 PM] michaelb5250
There's definite steps to be taken to improve meeting attendance for laser, that's for sure.


[7/5/2020 3:33 PM] kentamanos
Yeah, I feel like 3D printing and laser can be looked at almost like a "Kinkos" to some people 🙂


[7/5/2020 3:33 PM] kentamanos
I bring my file, I press a button, I pay a fee, I leave 🙂


[7/5/2020 3:34 PM] kentamanos
...and feel my wrath if that machine is down because there's not another Kinkos in town 🙂

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[7/5/2020 3:35 PM] themitch22
the fact is there are not as many vounteers with 3D fab I don't know if it's Max as chair or people just want to print stuff and leave


[7/5/2020 3:36 PM] michaelb5250
I always wanted to see 3D fab do like group builds on cool printers. Like a hang printer or a scara machine. It'd be a fun way to get people into the committee area and interested.


[7/5/2020 3:37 PM] michaelb5250
The laser equivalent is... slightly more hazardous


[7/5/2020 3:40 PM] stephenie.
Michael, my leadership was unconventional.  I stated up front that I  wouldn't become a one person, on call maintainer.  I would handle all bureaucracy: schedule meetings, track finances & classes, handle discipline, track maintenance & purchases, and be the voice of Team Laser on talk.  The team had to either maintain the machines or not.  They were given free reign to enhance the area with pet projects.  I flat out said I had no problem with lasers shut down indefinitely.  And I fed them on maintenance day 🍴


[7/5/2020 3:41 PM] stephenie.
And I said I'd only chair for one term


[7/5/2020 3:45 PM] stephenie.
> the fact is there are not as many vounteers with 3D fab I don't know if it's Max as chair or people just want to print stuff and leave
@themitch22 Laser users are a captive audience.  Have to stay within arms reach.  Made it easy to recruit.  3D Fab, don't most users walk away while job runs?


[7/5/2020 4:12 PM] quattroquattro
One thing that 3d fab could have that hasn't been leveraged recently is the design aspect of it. It's currently taught as "go download from thingiverse and print" there is very little focus on how to execute an idea with the tools


[7/5/2020 4:12 PM] themitch22
@michaelb I use to do group projects, the filastruder, mendel90, printerbot simple, etc but that pretty much all died with the volunteer effort


[7/5/2020 4:13 PM] themitch22
I did a prusa mk2 group build


[7/5/2020 4:14 PM] quattroquattro
@themitch22 I was at the space once during one of your group builds, it looked fun!


[7/5/2020 4:14 PM] themitch22
the rostock max v3.2 was a group project too but now it's collecting dust, that's why I don't bother doing 3D fab projects or training


[7/5/2020 4:14 PM] themitch22
polyprinters just need updated online class and maintenance class


[7/5/2020 4:15 PM] themitch22
it's not like we're paying Polyprinter for their service anyway, and it's not like polyprinter supports member damage


[7/5/2020 4:17 PM] themitch22
3d fab could be self-sustaining


[7/6/2020 5:22 AM] noble_goblin
Quick question- Where did the "Blue Tape" name come from?


[7/6/2020 5:28 AM] brsims2406
Their website- morebluetape.org. I think I prefer the sister-site though: lessbluetape.org


[7/6/2020 5:29 AM] draco_the_drake
```
More Blue Tape, Less Red Tape
Vote for Mark Havens, Joe King, Max Kirkland, Kevin Patel

Blue Tape was one of the perks of being at DMS. There was always some around for your projects. It was also one of the first thing that was taken away by this current Board and Officers. The purpose of More Blue Tape is to say, we want to make all our members more comfortable. It is such an inexpensive thing to do, why not? Also those Drink Cups, Tableware and maybe a couch even. And lastly, not yelling or being curmudgeons to members.

But less Red Tape means that we want to reduce the load on our volunteers and automate things as well as give more deciding power back to committees while at the same time building stronger ones through leadership training and other regular training. We need to spread the load as we grow. We cannot rely on just a few people at the top.
```


[7/6/2020 5:42 AM] noble_goblin
Wait are we not allowed to use blue tape? That stuff was useful.


[7/6/2020 5:43 AM] noble_goblin
Even if it was always going missing...


[7/6/2020 5:43 AM] draco_the_drake
We use to spend around $250 every few months to stock up DMS.


[7/6/2020 5:43 AM] noble_goblin
holy hell


[7/6/2020 5:44 AM] noble_goblin
Hard no


[7/6/2020 5:45 AM] draco_the_drake
Do you think that is alot every 3 months?


[7/6/2020 5:46 AM] draco_the_drake
I think it is a good investment in our members.


[7/6/2020 5:50 AM] draco_the_drake
And we have been doing it for years.


[7/6/2020 5:54 AM] noble_goblin
I do not know enough about DMS finance to make an informed comment, however those rolls are pretty big and it seems like they would last longer.


[7/6/2020 5:55 AM] draco_the_drake
https://makerspacedata.com/Dallas-Makerspace/


[7/6/2020 5:55 AM] draco_the_drake
$84 per month isn't very much at all


[7/6/2020 5:59 AM] draco_the_drake
That number was talked about when we had a whole lot more members.


[7/6/2020 6:20 AM] noble_goblin
Yeah, considering it's less that $5 on Amazon for a roll that seems like a LOT


[7/6/2020 6:20 AM] noble_goblin
Plus, every dollar saved is more to help with expansion.


[7/6/2020 6:21 AM] noble_goblin
https://www.amazon.com/ScotchBlue-Painters-Multi-Use-70-Inch-2090-18E/dp/B00004Z4BB


[7/6/2020 6:21 AM] noble_goblin
Granted, it's on sale, but I hope that whoever is making purchases would try their best to buy most things like this on sale.


[7/6/2020 6:31 AM] draco_the_drake
Yes, sales are good.  I remember once we did buy some cheap stuff once and regretted it.   But I'm all for cost savings ...


[7/6/2020 6:44 AM] andrew5152
This is one place I differ significantly from Draco: he thinks "that doesn't sound like much". I think "Do I want to borrow $34 from a buddy to fund my blue tape fetish?"
Because, effecitvely, that's what is happening. EVERY DIME of my monthly payment to DMS is being spent on blue tape, AND they're plundering over half (50/2=25<34) of my buddy's monthly payment to DMS as well, to fund the blue tape fetish.
No thanks.
I'd like to spend that on tools.
Or a building.
Or power for those tools.
Or other things I can't have at my house.
I'll buy my own blue tape.

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[7/6/2020 6:45 AM] andrew5152
Ditto for red solo cups, plastic utensils for individuals to use in the galley, etc. etc. etc.


[7/6/2020 6:46 AM] draco_the_drake
Sure .. I can understand that


[7/6/2020 6:46 AM] draco_the_drake
I'm willing to put 6 cents of my membership into bluetape


[7/6/2020 6:47 AM] draco_the_drake
Hey James


[7/6/2020 6:47 AM] draco_the_drake
Good Morning


[7/6/2020 6:48 AM] quattroquattro
Here is a write-up of where more blue tape comes from: https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/what-is-blue-tape-and-why-are-some-candidates-running-as-more-blue-tape/72424


[7/6/2020 6:49 AM] quattroquattro
@NobleGoblin it's the actual rally cry of two people who were actively stealing from the space


[7/6/2020 6:50 AM] draco_the_drake
It had nothing what-so-ever to do with stealing from the space.  Many people complained when it was removed and it was just one of the first things, removed.


[7/6/2020 6:51 AM] andrew5152
@pearce has my undying gratitude for being the shit collector for deciding to tighten those particular belt notches, because I know he took on a TON of crap, but it NEEDED done.
Good work, soldier.

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[7/6/2020 6:51 AM] canibalcrab
They think that the DMS should provide consumables for their projects instead of bringing them themselves

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[7/6/2020 6:52 AM] draco_the_drake
Perks for members are not a bad thing in moderation.


[7/6/2020 6:52 AM] canibalcrab
Yet you seem to have built a platform on it


[7/6/2020 6:54 AM] draco_the_drake
Well, it really symbolizes much of the feeling from the community we had before this past year- when the place was full of interesting projects and people.   I don't miss theft, I miss the people.


[7/6/2020 6:54 AM] noble_goblin
I like that we are allowed as members to -donate- consumables


[7/6/2020 6:55 AM] draco_the_drake
Yup that was cool too


[7/6/2020 6:55 AM] noble_goblin
but that's not why I pay membership. I pay membership to keep up with tools, equipment, pay the bills, etc. Not for tape.

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[7/6/2020 6:55 AM] draco_the_drake
Donations are allowed as long as they approved by committee chairs


[7/6/2020 6:59 AM] draco_the_drake
Well, the space is not just about tools but a community of people.   We are Dallas Makerspace... the people.  Many have associated us with a gym membership for tools and some are there for that but that isn't how it is for a whole lot of others.  We all need community of some form.    Dallas Makerspace served as a place of community.  Some get it from their church or family but some got it from DMS.   Feeling comfortable is important and I think many of the Directors and Officers this year didn't value this enough.  They may have fixed the books but they broke the space.


[7/6/2020 7:00 AM] noble_goblin
We do need a community- but that is not what I pay membership for. Not everyone at DMS wants to be a part of the community either. 

Community is voluntary participation.


[7/6/2020 7:00 AM] noble_goblin
And I want to make it very, VERY clear


[7/6/2020 7:01 AM] noble_goblin
When you fix something broken there will always be people hurt.


[7/6/2020 7:01 AM] noble_goblin
The board did not break the space Draco


[7/6/2020 7:01 AM] noble_goblin
The people hurt and upset did. Rather than wait


[7/6/2020 7:01 AM] noble_goblin
let me finish


[7/6/2020 7:03 AM] noble_goblin
Rather than wait and see the results of painful progress, people got upset and loud and political. People who do not like to be told no, people who did not want their creature comforts disturbed, people that were use to getting their way and made the makerspace a personality trait. 

I have not liked all of the changes. I dislike that we can't be adults enough to even enjoy alcohol. I disliked a lot of the honorarium changes, but I did my best to not resort to a lot of the petty interpersonal bullshit that is currently running rampant.

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[7/6/2020 7:04 AM] noble_goblin
Progress. Takes. Time. 

It's a lesson the space and the country as a whole could learn.

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[7/6/2020 7:05 AM] noble_goblin
Something something The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions something


[7/6/2020 7:05 AM] draco_the_drake
I can understand that perspective.  The way in which the board decided to go about fixing the space was really blind to a large chunk of the membership.   We can see that in the dramatic membership decline and the emptying out of the space.   This is not really a fix at all.


[7/6/2020 7:06 AM] draco_the_drake
I didn't sue the past board


[7/6/2020 7:06 AM] noble_goblin
And?


[7/6/2020 7:06 AM] noble_goblin
COVID did a lot to decline membership. Many members quit BECAUSE of people starting drama


[7/6/2020 7:07 AM] andrew5152
I don't think it was blind AT ALL. It made hard decisions that needed made, and got done what needed done.

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[7/6/2020 7:07 AM] noble_goblin
I doubt anyone is on the board with the intent to hurt the space.


[7/6/2020 7:07 AM] draco_the_drake
You are correct, @NobleGoblin in that we need to find a way to come back together


[7/6/2020 7:07 AM] draco_the_drake
compromise


[7/6/2020 7:08 AM] noble_goblin
Coming together starts with calling off this political party bullshit.

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[7/6/2020 7:08 AM] draco_the_drake
James and Jim have assulted Kevin, Mark and Max


[7/6/2020 7:08 AM] noble_goblin
Dissolve the whole "blue tape" "more blue tape" "whatever anyone else is using"


[7/6/2020 7:08 AM] draco_the_drake
through their SoI threads


[7/6/2020 7:08 AM] noble_goblin
I don't know about James but I can speak on Jim


[7/6/2020 7:09 AM] draco_the_drake
This was before the blue tape


[7/6/2020 7:09 AM] noble_goblin
Jim and I did NOT get off on the right foot. Also before blue tape


[7/6/2020 7:09 AM] noble_goblin
However, we took our issues offline and sat down together and worked it out. We let each other speak. We agreed to disagree on things.


[7/6/2020 7:10 AM] draco_the_drake
Coming together starts with having a decent dialog between parties and a calm one .. not shutting down discussion.


[7/6/2020 7:10 AM] noble_goblin
And you know what? We get along now. He can be abrasive at times (like others) and I'm not going to begrudge him of that.

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[7/6/2020 7:10 AM] noble_goblin
Knowing both Kevin and Jim it will be hard for them to have a calm discussion- but not impossible if they are both open to learning from each other and not dead set on changing each others mind


[7/6/2020 7:11 AM] draco_the_drake
Perhaps we need professional mediators

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[7/6/2020 7:11 AM] noble_goblin
Which is a huge issue. Most of this back and forth is because people are too set in the "I'm right you're wrong" mentality and refuse to see the grey areas. Or just agree to disagree and move on with life.


[7/6/2020 7:12 AM] draco_the_drake
Well I will agree with that .. and not understanding the other viewpoint


[7/6/2020 7:12 AM] noble_goblin
Professional mediators are an aid. They won't change someone or make them listen.


[7/6/2020 7:13 AM] draco_the_drake
I know that... and the parties have to come to the table willingly


[7/6/2020 7:13 AM] draco_the_drake
But soooo much BS has happened


[7/6/2020 7:13 AM] noble_goblin
And?


[7/6/2020 7:13 AM] draco_the_drake
It is going to be hard to get it to happen


[7/6/2020 7:13 AM] noble_goblin
We are adults. Get over it.

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[7/6/2020 7:13 AM] noble_goblin
Yup.


[7/6/2020 7:13 AM] draco_the_drake
You know what, Noble ... "Get over it" isn't a good thing to say keep people calm


[7/6/2020 7:14 AM] draco_the_drake
Like telling a depressed person .. "Get over it"


[7/6/2020 7:14 AM] noble_goblin
1) Wouldn't do that.


[7/6/2020 7:14 AM] noble_goblin
2) I'm speaking generally.


[7/6/2020 7:14 AM] noble_goblin
There is a point where you have to let things go. Holding a grudge will not facilitate change or compromise.


[7/6/2020 7:15 AM] noble_goblin
Letting things go doesn't mean you forgive someone or forget what they did.


[7/6/2020 7:15 AM] draco_the_drake
Yes but we have to be able to find that point .. right now we cannot even come to the table


[7/6/2020 7:15 AM] quattroquattro
Not sure what Draco is claiming about me since I blocked him, but he's I'm glad to answer any question put my way by anyone rational


[7/6/2020 7:15 AM] noble_goblin
It means you are choosing to have a clean slate and move forward.


[7/6/2020 7:16 AM] draco_the_drake
^^ example .. blocking me


[7/6/2020 7:16 AM] noble_goblin
Also, my IRL name is Michelle if people prefer that. Idc personally


[7/6/2020 7:16 AM] draco_the_drake
Everyone calls me Draco IRL .. I really should just get my name changed


[7/6/2020 7:16 AM] noble_goblin
Eh. Blocking is petty to some and not to others. Depends on the situation. It's def not something I would ever put any real emotion into.


[7/6/2020 7:17 AM] noble_goblin
Someone blocks me? Ok. I hope they are happy. Moving on.


[7/6/2020 7:17 AM] draco_the_drake
However, it doesn't help come to the table


[7/6/2020 7:17 AM] noble_goblin
Nope. But those people are also not ready to come to the table.


[7/6/2020 7:18 AM] noble_goblin
And arguing with them ain't gonna help.


[7/6/2020 7:18 AM] draco_the_drake
truth


[7/6/2020 7:19 AM] quattroquattro
I blocked Draco because he's generally doing nothing but trolling. If you answer his question he just moved the goal posts. Also I blocked him because when I stopped answering his garbage on talk he went after me on my personal Facebook. Screens are posted somewhere on here that show the lovely argument where I was telling Draco to back off on an attempt to victim shame a member


[7/6/2020 7:19 AM] noble_goblin
A good question for the candidates is how they will move forward should they not get elected. Will they stay? Will they retaliate?


[7/6/2020 7:19 AM] noble_goblin
If they are elected- Will they retaliate?

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[7/6/2020 7:20 AM] noble_goblin
I don't care why anyone blocks anyone else @quattroquattro  Not my business and not to be mean, but not worth my time. No one needs to justify why they blocked who to me.


[7/6/2020 7:20 AM] draco_the_drake
First step, stop name calling .. part of trolling means being disingenuous,  He is accusing us of not being truthful in what we believe


[7/6/2020 7:21 AM] noble_goblin
Accusing of being untruthful is not necessarily name calling. And I'm not going down the hold of if what you believe is true or not. Thats not what we are discussing.


[7/6/2020 7:22 AM] noble_goblin
rabbit hole*


[7/6/2020 7:22 AM] draco_the_drake
He is being dismissive .. that is one of the issues


[7/6/2020 7:22 AM] draco_the_drake
Because he doesn't think we are serious


[7/6/2020 7:22 AM] draco_the_drake
and thinks we want to some how destroy the space?!


[7/6/2020 7:23 AM] draco_the_drake
He mentioned that in a thread on Talk


[7/6/2020 7:24 AM] noble_goblin
No one believes that anyone wants to literally destroy the space. It's a figure of speech. They believe that a lot of the changes some of the candidates want to make would end up hurting the space as a whole.


[7/6/2020 7:24 AM] quattroquattro
I'm paid up for the full year, I'll be here at least that long. As a person who lost the election it's unlikely that I will have any clout to retaliate, but based on Mark and Dracos behavior I expect to be retaliated against. Luckily this board voted in an antiretaliation policy they would have to remove first.


[7/6/2020 7:26 AM] quattroquattro
I can't imagine removing antiretaliation policies would sit well with the general membership.


[7/6/2020 7:26 AM] draco_the_drake
```
James:

This may in fact be their end game, just do as much damage as they can before trying to do it somewhere else. They have in the past been associated with John Thummel, Kris Anderson and Joe Paden. These banned members, who per a few Facebook posts are planning a space in the Plano area.

It would explain why they are posting on YouTube and LinkedIn, and not to the membership. They may be trying to sink our reputation to aid their own recruiting as the “new, fun all booze all the time makerspace” when people start searching for things to do post covid-19.

Who knows, but I’m surprised they didn’t just stay at ACME since that’s where a few of them went during the covid closure.
```


[7/6/2020 7:28 AM] kenpurcell
^ This channel is called DMS Politics.


[7/6/2020 7:30 AM] draco_the_drake
I would like to be on better terms with James ... we once were .. at one time he wanted me to be DMS President

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[7/6/2020 7:31 AM] noble_goblin
One sec, let me catch up.


[7/6/2020 7:31 AM] quattroquattro
Someone sent me a screenshot of Dracos response to my answer and it's exactly what I was talking about with moving the goal posts. I answered the question and he writes back with something barely related


[7/6/2020 7:32 AM] noble_goblin
Eh. I take that with a grain of salt. If they wanted to do real damage they would come to the space. 

@Lampy (Ken Purcell) what were you replying to?


[7/6/2020 7:32 AM] noble_goblin
And if they want to start a space, ok? Cool? Acme has a lot of the same values IIRC and they have not grown very much.


[7/6/2020 7:33 AM] kenpurcell
Dracos post of Jame's quote


[7/6/2020 7:33 AM] noble_goblin
We have quite a LOT on our side. Though, I do think we could market better. That's an entirely different conversation though.

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[7/6/2020 7:33 AM] draco_the_drake
I wish we didn't have sides


[7/6/2020 7:34 AM] noble_goblin
Posted questions for the candidates on Talk. Hopefully there will be responses


[7/6/2020 7:35 AM] noble_goblin
Humans will always be divisive at one point or another. It's not a death sentence. We are all on the same side, just in different ways. We all want the space to succeeed.

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[7/6/2020 7:36 AM] noble_goblin
succeed*


[7/6/2020 7:36 AM] kenpurcell
It has been more work being closed. Trying to manage the space to successfully move on past the Covid-19 shutdown has been brutal on D&O and some members. They have their own personal duties to the friends and family, work etc. yet we get harassed about making decisions.

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[7/6/2020 7:36 AM] noble_goblin
I honestly can't imagine how hard it's been for ya'll.


[7/6/2020 7:38 AM] andrew5152
I say (with alarming frequency) two people can get along just fine; once there's a 3rd, there are sides and disagreements... This is how the first tribes started, by adding a 3rd person to the human race.


[7/6/2020 7:38 AM] kenpurcell
Seems odd to be so balled up on an issue about blue tape. It is a consumable item and yet while cheap shows a desire to have it subsidized. I look at it like do you put your grocery cart away or do you leave it between cars? It is an indicator of your level of care when dealing with others.

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[7/6/2020 7:40 AM] noble_goblin
I used it when it was there but honestly I can't recall ever really *needing* it


[7/6/2020 8:09 AM] nullinterface
blue tape is remarkably expensive and pretty terrible for nearly all of what it gets used for

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[7/6/2020 8:09 AM] draco_the_drake
Blue Tape is a symbol more than anything

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[7/6/2020 8:18 AM] nullinterface
symbolic of wasteful subsidy

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[7/6/2020 8:31 AM] axeonos
Gotta agree with Eric. Ya dont realize how expensive things actually are till your logistics chair/officer. We go through something like its candy and no one donates any to logistics.


[7/6/2020 8:32 AM] nullinterface
it must taste good or something


[7/6/2020 8:32 AM] axeonos
Were gluttons for punishment


[7/6/2020 8:34 AM] andrew5152
Raffi's still chair of computer committee, no?


[7/6/2020 8:34 AM] andrew5152
Oh. I guess not.

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[7/6/2020 8:35 AM] axeonos
I remember @Diplomat would get so mad about people using the blue tape. Now I know why. Shit is expensive


[7/6/2020 8:35 AM] andrew5152
n/m


[7/6/2020 8:35 AM] andrew5152
😄


[7/6/2020 8:35 AM] andrew5152
what do you mean, @Axeonos ?
It's free.
Well, it used to be, before the big meanie board took over and forced pearce to take away all our funstuffz!


[7/6/2020 8:36 AM] axeonos
Can't tell if joking. Too early havent had caffeine yet

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[7/6/2020 8:37 AM] andrew5152
oh, total snark.


[7/6/2020 8:38 AM] axeonos


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[7/6/2020 8:38 AM] judykriehn3727
I wish we didn't have sides

Liar, liar, pants on fire.
You wish the space was filled with people who agreed 100% with YOUR views.

It’s easy to lament the lack of stuff you view as “cheap” until you add it all up. Me, my “side” is the side of fiduciary responsibility.

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[7/6/2020 9:22 AM] diplomat05960
Yes, I liked keeping everyone supplied with Blue Tape. 

There were large balls of blue tape in the trash on occasion. Meaning someone had over masked something for painting and since it was "free", who cares? 

I think the one that bothered me most was when someone did work for a plaster cast and used a wide roll off blue tape as part of the cast. Then was unrepentant about it.


[7/6/2020 9:25 AM] nullinterface
*bundling* large/heavy materials together was my favorite - because **masking tape** has got the Wheaties for that task


[7/6/2020 9:27 AM] agr0090
Why not determine a consumable budget and then allocate money to different items as needed, could get blue and regular masking tape, drill bits, assortment of nuts and bolts, etc


[7/6/2020 9:28 AM] agr0090
Should be more options than none or unlimited supply for people to waste

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[7/6/2020 9:35 AM] michaelb5250
I think the most compelling argument for stocking consumables so far is that our most profitable members are people who pay dues and show up one or two weekends a month to knock out a quick project, and we'd be able to keep more of them around if they didn't have to run to home depot to buy bolts or remember to pack their sharpies.

At the end of the day, I'm here often enough to know what I need to bring so while it can be a minor inconvenience if I'm rushing from work it's hardly a major issue.


[7/6/2020 12:14 PM] themitch22
A $10 roll of blue painters tape lasts me a long time. Maybe we should get sponsored by 3M


[7/6/2020 12:14 PM] themitch22
"Most creative waste of blue tape scholarship fund"

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[7/6/2020 12:43 PM] ferricyanide7475
I sort of agree with Michael a bit. I have been up there working on something and belated realized i needed something and instead of leaving for 30-60 mins to get it. It is nice to be able to have something there. I have definitely used a red cup once for a project, some pepper for some other one and occasionally some of the blue tape. However i am not sure how to police usage. I don't think a little here or there is a big deal. But if someone is using a whole roll worth of tape themselves, they should really bring their own. Maybe having that stuff right by a way to pay for it. So it's there and the space gets reimbursed for usage


[7/6/2020 12:51 PM] quattroquattro
Things I have personally witnessed with space provided blue tape.
1. New roles being used to prop up a resin piece, ruining about 4 roles
2. Using blue tape to make molds, like what was mentioned above
3. Grabbing a new role of blue tape instead of one of the many already available.
4. Excessive use by specific members who are running a business and not contributing back to the space from their profits.
5. Taking blue tape home

The bottom line is it will not be possible to stock until we can get a consumables wall set up that allows members to buy it on site. We just don't have the man power to police it.


[7/6/2020 12:52 PM] michaelb5250
The consumables wall with a square kiosk in the galley was proposed (and why those shelves are along the wall to the common room) but I guess no one ever cared to run it.

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[7/6/2020 12:52 PM] merissa4308
Yeah Brandon built the shelves specifically for that purpose 😕


[7/6/2020 12:53 PM] quattroquattro
I would love if someone could lead on getting that project back on track.


[7/6/2020 12:57 PM] themitch22
Can we bring back the Supply vending machine


[7/6/2020 12:57 PM] agr0090
Question isn't is there waste with shared resources, there always will be, question is how much, is investing a few hundred dollars a month in shared consumables a benefit to a large enough number of members?

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[7/6/2020 1:00 PM] themitch22
The fastenal lockers at most industrial places solve this issue much to the employees dismay


[7/6/2020 1:00 PM] brsims2406
We really need to see a proposal at this point if it's gonna get restarted. Or the next board does I suppose. I don't understand what is so damn hard about going to Home Depot. There's one less than 10 minutes away.

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[7/6/2020 1:04 PM] agr0090
Supplying no consumable or hand tools (everything is consumable eventually) would certainly make it easier to run things at DMS. Personally I bring my own hand tools because I cant rely on DMS to be stocked with anything


[7/6/2020 1:04 PM] themitch22
People there after home depot hours that need supplies. Ive gone to Walmart for tools and projects a bunch since joining the space its entirely a convenience


[7/6/2020 1:05 PM] themitch22
I have my own dremel because the dremels at dms have been broken at some point


[7/6/2020 1:07 PM] agr0090
also brings up what should goals of DMS be, DMS is making a ton of money, should it just keep pilling up until DMS starts buying 100k pieces of equipment that almost no members will use?


[7/6/2020 1:09 PM] brsims2406
DMS is attempting to complete an expansion. We spent in the neighborhood of 150k on it in June alone. I don't think we are hurting for uses of our money. Because we've been careful, we're also not in danger.

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[7/6/2020 1:18 PM] hon1nbo
Looking at the Fastenal page, the program has changed heavily since the last quote I have from them. This includes lockers for tool control that are in the same system as the vending (i.e. top rows could be vending for consumables, bottom cabinets for expensive checkout based tools).
Can't hurt to inquire; even if it's not blue tape, could be useful for common committee consumables that are normally under their stipends / usual committee budgets (WD-40/cutting oil 
, pig mats, and the like for machine shop; recharge canisters for jewelry; blades for all committees with saws; sanding belts and flap disks for metal shop). It could be setup so any committee member / volunteers could pull a replacement, but not average members.

Now may not be the time to get such a system, but the time to plan for options to deploy once expansion is done since I expect planning such a transition would take a while given it's back-burner nature

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[7/6/2020 1:20 PM] agr0090
Hard to do an experiment with covid impact, would be interesting if it was possible to try no consumables / hand tools / resources (only tables and large tools you can't carry around) to see how that impacts member retention (which determines long term income)


[7/6/2020 1:23 PM] merissa4308
I think it's pretty safe to say that less tools wouldn't improve member retention 😝


[7/6/2020 2:16 PM] hon1nbo
No hand tools would be a deal killer. Lugging in consumables and project materials is one thing, but having to add in more toolbags is going to push most of it beyond value for a number of members


[7/6/2020 2:17 PM] hon1nbo
And drive up complaints about members abusing other members' tools since, inherently, it will be mistaken for a DMS tool.
It's already bad enough when someone insists on bringing their own power tools of the same models we have and we have to sort them (luckily I engraved most of the tools in auto; the bigger issue is the batteries that we don't like to push a rotary tool into a potentially combustible pile of lithium)


[7/6/2020 2:42 PM] jswilson64
After I joined DMS I really understood my dad's advice - Always use your own tools for anything that measures or cuts (precisely). I know my knife/chisel/hand saw/router bits are sharp, and I know my tape measure hasn't been used to fish wiring.


[7/6/2020 2:51 PM] nullinterface
Former manager of mine in a different career had an 11" steel rule that used to be 12".  Of course it wasn't the 11"-12" end  that had been cut down - it was the 0"-1" side.  Claimed he kept it so that noone would steal it, but he made nearly as many *off-by-1* errors with that f_cking thing as everyone else who borrowed it.


[7/6/2020 4:21 PM] nullinterface
UNKLE - always *cheery*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMChIaIH120

{Embed}
Dragutin Stević
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMChIaIH120
UNKLE - Eye For An Eye
Album: (2003) Never, Never, Land - uploaded via http://www.mp32u.net/
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/3gM214XA22VyRGtGkPFRrBeOlrLtzbnDA-yHQKeh-F4/https/i.ytimg.com/vi/gMChIaIH120/sddefault.jpg


[7/6/2020 5:13 PM] aceat64
The false balance argument is tiring

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[7/6/2020 5:20 PM] quattroquattro
Indeed it is.


[7/6/2020 5:55 PM] quattroquattro
@NobleGoblin it looks like all the responsible candidates have answered your question.

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[7/6/2020 5:55 PM] quattroquattro
No word from the blue tape crew


[7/6/2020 6:02 PM] andrew5152
want me to close it?


[7/6/2020 6:02 PM] andrew5152
(kidding, we need to let them come in if they want... I'm just not holding my breath)


[7/6/2020 6:34 PM] jswilson64
Is anyone commenting on their videos/facebook? Are they listening to BoTh sIdEs?


[7/6/2020 6:34 PM] james_david_vance
"A fork is a copy of a repository. Forking a repository allows you to freely experiment with changes without affecting the original project." 

"Most commonly, forks are used to either propose changes to someone else's project or to use someone else's project as a starting point for your own idea." - Official Documentation of GitHub

Forking isn't plagiarizing. You should be very careful when making serious accusations like that. 

https://docs.github.com/en/github/getting-started-with-github/fork-a-repo

{Embed}
https://docs.github.com/en/github/getting-started-with-github/fork-a-repo
Fork a repo - GitHub Docs
A fork is a copy of a repository. Forking a repository allows you to freely experiment with changes without affecting the original project.

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[7/6/2020 6:35 PM] james_david_vance
An argument about that wouldn't be productive for anyone involved. Bye.


[7/6/2020 6:44 PM] Deleted User
forking doesn't erase commit history. and it certainly doesn't insert the cloner's name at the top of the license file.


[7/6/2020 6:45 PM] merissa4308
Sorry I'm github illiterate... what does this have to do with dms politics?


[7/6/2020 6:46 PM] Deleted User
https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/mark-havens-care-to-comment/72420/34

{Embed}
https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/mark-havens-care-to-comment/72420/34
Mark Havens, care to comment?
It’s weird that Mark would care so much about copyright now, he certainly doesn’t seem to care for it with his GitHub. Many of his repositories are straight up copies from other projects with the name changed. Note that these aren’t forks, but totally new git repos with none o...
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/I4_EedIDX0BjqrznQWWDFVury0feLFBlQTwMKQACnF4/https/dms-discourse-static.s3.dualstack.us-east-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/f/7/f70cced1563c2e6c3aab1a7cbef3cfba5d1983fe.png

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[7/6/2020 6:49 PM] canibalcrab
Mark likes to "fork" GitHub works and add his name to them


[7/6/2020 6:49 PM] quattroquattro
It adds to the evidence that he has repeatedly take credit for others work. Here at DMS it's "principal founder" in the business world it's apparently claiming he wrote stuff he didn't

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[7/6/2020 6:49 PM] canibalcrab
That's not actually what he does, he copy/pastes and reuploads them with his name on them

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[7/6/2020 6:53 PM] Deleted User
The funny thing is github makes it dead simple to do it the "right" way, there's a giant fork button. You actually have to understand a tiny bit of git to plagiarize.


[7/6/2020 6:54 PM] aceat64
@DJ Vance they aren't forks, maybe spend 30 seconds following the links


[7/6/2020 6:54 PM] aceat64
```
$ curl -s https://raw.githubusercontent.com/lukechilds/dockerpi/4bb1b91e1d241a931f63511423fd216733179387/Dockerfile > lukechilds-Dockerfile
$ curl -s https://raw.githubusercontent.com/mrhavens/pidoc/42a33d64a3c7c12e2df97b944105bc2292ea9565/Dockerfile > mrhavens-Dockerfile
$ diff lukechilds-Dockerfile mrhavens-Dockerfile
40c40
< LABEL maintainer="Luke Childs <lukechilds123@gmail.com>"
---
> LABEL maintainer="Mark Havens <mark.r.havens@gmail.com>"
```


[7/6/2020 6:55 PM] aceat64
here's an example, Mark took a file/project from someone else, created a new repo with no ties to the original repo or author, but he changed the name to make it seem like he wrote it


[7/6/2020 6:55 PM] aceat64
the correct way to do this with open source is to fork the repo, maintaining a shared commit history with the original repo


[7/6/2020 6:56 PM] aceat64
Mark's rebranded projects, even if they had useful original code, can't easily incorporate that code back into the "upstream" repo


[7/6/2020 6:56 PM] draco_the_drake
He did give you full credit, didn't he?


[7/6/2020 6:56 PM] draco_the_drake
In his repo


[7/6/2020 6:56 PM] aceat64
Draco, look at the other repos, stop derailing


[7/6/2020 6:57 PM] aceat64
he built a whole GitHub profile based on other people's work, rebranded as his own


[7/6/2020 6:57 PM] aceat64
```
Mark's Repo: https://github.com/mrhavens/openmaint_docker
Source Repo: https://github.com/itmicus/cmdbuild_docker/tree/master/3.1.1
docker-compose.yml differs slightly, all other files identical

Mark's Repo: https://github.com/mrhavens/pidoc
Source Repo: https://github.com/lukechilds/dockerpi
Obfuscated rip of Luke Child's dockerpi, actually left some of the license files unchanged lol
https://github.com/mrhavens/pidoc/commit/895b771c7868e1dc6dddb57f185442b59d48769f#diff-3254677a7917c6c01f55212f86c57fbf

Mark's Repo: https://github.com/mrhavens/Dedockify
Source Repo: https://github.com/LanikSJ/dfimage
Obfuscated rip, "graciously" includes LanikSJ in the license file though.

Mark's Repo: https://github.com/mrhavens/GANaffect
Source Repo: https://github.com/donydchen/ganimation_replicate

Mark's Repo: https://github.com/mrhavens/DockerTrap
Possibly the only semi-original repo in the entire account.

Mark's Repo: https://github.com/mrhavens/DockerBYOB
An actual fork!
```


[7/6/2020 6:58 PM] Deleted User
Adding (c) your name when you haven't made a substantive contribution is not kosher, even if it's open source code.

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[7/6/2020 6:58 PM] aceat64
his trolling with the PPE building is why I went looking into his github profile


[7/6/2020 6:58 PM] aceat64
what Mark has done with his GitHub is a pretty blatant slap in the face to open source development


[7/6/2020 6:58 PM] draco_the_drake
"A very special thank you goes out to aceat64 [Andrew LeCody] for volunteering to manage this initiative. The source branch for this project can be found here [link to your repo]."


[7/6/2020 6:59 PM] aceat64
Draco, you're broken

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[7/6/2020 6:59 PM] quattroquattro
@aceat64 You can't fight the law office of Draco, Raffi and Havens with evidence! If you are going to step into their court you need baseless accusations, moving goal posts and gaslights


[7/6/2020 6:59 PM] aceat64
please learn to read the conversation that is happening here, not the one in your head


[7/6/2020 6:59 PM] canibalcrab
@Draco none of the links Andrew provided are to his own GitHub


[7/6/2020 6:59 PM] lavarocks.
And community. Because what are rules when there is community?


[7/6/2020 7:00 PM] lavarocks.
@aceat64  you mean a broken record

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[7/6/2020 7:01 PM] aceat64
> The funny thing is github makes it dead simple to do it the "right" way, there's a giant fork button. You actually have to understand a tiny bit of git to plagiarize.
@Deleted User this is a really important point ^


[7/6/2020 7:01 PM] aceat64
Mark went _out of his way_ to do this


[7/6/2020 7:03 PM] aceat64
it should be noted that open source is a huge part of DMS core values and our history

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[7/6/2020 7:08 PM] aceat64
@DJ Vance you seem to know how forks work, why are you defending Mark's plagiarism? (https://github.com/RaffiRincon/guides)


[7/6/2020 7:10 PM] merissa4308
How anyone defends him or that group is just beyond all reason.  Either you're brainwashed or you're just as much of a dishonest manipulative person.  If it's the first, do yourself (and us all) a favor find your way out of the fog.


[7/6/2020 7:15 PM] aceat64
guess that was the drive-by for the day of the blue tape crew, back to their private chat to figure out the next thing they think will fool people


[7/6/2020 7:16 PM] quattroquattro
Draco's out on talk pretending he didn't know people were living behind the space...

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[7/6/2020 7:18 PM] aceat64
https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Board_of_Directors_Meeting_20190311_Special_Meeting

{Embed}
https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Board_of_Directors_Meeting_20190311_Special_Meeting
Board of Directors Meeting 20190311 Special Meeting


[7/6/2020 7:18 PM] aceat64
> Announcements
> 1. Notice of Violation from City of Carrollton sent to DMS dated 4-6-2019 giving 10 days notice from mailing
> (4-6-19) to have all vehicles with people living residing in them to cease. Individuals have been notified.
> Notice to DMS will be posted.


[7/6/2020 9:14 PM] judykriehn3727
> Were they time-travellers? How can they have a citation from April but discuss it a month earlier in March?


[7/6/2020 9:17 PM] aceat64
minutes were not a high priority for that board


[7/6/2020 9:17 PM] judykriehn3727
> you need baseless accusations, moving goal posts and gaslights


[7/6/2020 9:18 PM] judykriehn3727
All I got is gas.


[7/6/2020 9:34 PM] quattroquattro
@judy Kriehn you and me both. 😉


[7/6/2020 11:25 PM] judykriehn3727
I feel compelled to say
“I fart in your general direction!”

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[7/7/2020 5:18 AM] noble_goblin
I was hoping the other side would comment as well. I will admit, not a fan of some of the replies, but overall It's nice to know that the majority of people thus far as willing to do all they can to support DMS.

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[7/7/2020 5:45 AM] quattroquattro
It's amazing how Draco is out here and  on talk campaigning for them on "community" but they won't participate in any conversation available to the community and the videos that are posted all have comments turned off.


[7/7/2020 7:22 AM] nullinterface
> and the videos that are posted all have comments turned off.
color me **astounded**


[7/7/2020 7:24 AM] canibalcrab
I almost commented on that


[7/7/2020 7:24 AM] andrew5152
Well, bearing in mind Draco, according to him & Cairenn, are the only people they know in this alleged comminity who come to Talk or Discord to interact with "not our community but still DMS members who happen to be at the space sometimes but don't 'hang out' or 'nap' there enough to understand how important our community is"


[7/7/2020 7:25 AM] canibalcrab
Draco said "talk isn't a good place to have the conversation" ( paraphrased from memory) 

But had the comments turned off on the videos off of talk


[7/7/2020 7:46 AM] noble_goblin
Bless Cairenn's heart, but I generally ignore most of what she posts.

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[7/7/2020 8:12 AM] quattroquattro
@NobleGoblin when you say not a fan of some of the replies I assume you mean that many of us won't work as the minority on a board of blue tape. All I can offer there is an explanation. This job is incredibly demanding, and even though we have insurance for the D&O you still assume some risk, both legally and professionally when you take this position. Given their refusal to engage in open and honest dialogue so far I see no reason to believe that serving on the board under them would be anything but a mental beating and a whole pile of legal risk.


[7/7/2020 8:24 AM] stephenie.
@NobleGoblin I am a fan of the replies. People can and should set and enforce personal boundaries.

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[7/7/2020 8:25 AM] noble_goblin
I love the honesty. That is more telling than anything


[7/7/2020 8:26 AM] noble_goblin
So while I don't -like- that some people are not willing (which is their choice.) I value more that they are open about it

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[7/7/2020 8:50 AM] nullinterface
https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/wanted-secretary/72623


[7/7/2020 12:34 PM] james_david_vance
Bullshit arguments are bullshit regardless of who they're aimed at. I really hate this strawman bullshit that I'm defending people. I'm not defending anyone. I have this weird urge to point out bullshit arguments where I see them. For example, in the anonymous video on YouTube, there was talk of jumping through hoops to teach a class. That's just false. It's super easy to throw up a class on the calendar. Also, in my video, Mark talked about how incumbents shouldn't go after other people running. I should ve mentioned it in the video, but I think that's bullshit. Of course they should go after their competition. It's *how* they do so that matters. Making wild accusations about some Crisco with an unknown amount of infused marijuana being worth 10 grand for example, is bullshit. Andrew, you don't believe the shit you spew. You lied here on Discord. You denied claiming Tha the oil was worth 10 grand. It takes a certain amount of contempt for people's ability to reason to knowingly lie to them to further your agenda. I suspect that you think the end of promoting the clique justifies the means of bullshit like the plagiarism and 10-grand Crisco claim.


[7/7/2020 12:42 PM] quattroquattro
Raffi, I appreciate some of what you said here. It's unfortunate that you didn't correct mark in the video. You are right it's fair to go after them for legitimate things. Like how he misrepresented members in the past in a matter of fraud and has apparently done it again with Luke.
I do take issue with you on the weed/hash oil price question though. As I recall we looked at current Colorado market price for both hash oil and infused butters and it came out to an exceptionally high value. 
Keep in mind that's retail price in a town where it's legal, here where it is illegal it's more expensive. 
So my position on that is that it doesn't matter if it's 2k, 5k, or 10k. He was in possession of a large quantity of illegal product and he's not being 100% honest about how it happened.


[7/7/2020 12:43 PM] brsims2406
Man l love revisiting the same ole subjects again. It's kinda like oldies radio at this point.

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[7/7/2020 12:44 PM] quattroquattro
Raffi, what's your position on what Mark, Kevin, Joe and Max did to Luke by adding him to their campaign without his knowledge?


[7/7/2020 12:46 PM] skyspook
Looks like he's already offline


[7/7/2020 12:46 PM] stephenie.
Hit and run


[7/7/2020 12:46 PM] nullinterface
righteousness does not suffer challenges


[7/7/2020 12:54 PM] kenpurcell
speaking of hit and run 😉 https://lessbluetape.org/

{Embed}
lessblue-host
https://lessbluetape.org/
Home

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[7/7/2020 12:56 PM] nullinterface
*comedy re-syndication plugin: **active***


[7/7/2020 12:58 PM] michaelb5250
Damn whois data is useless nowadays. Y'all are no fun


[7/7/2020 1:01 PM] anutterbutter
Lol


[7/7/2020 1:02 PM] nullinterface
https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/more-blue-tape-crew-trolling-of-dms/72473/90
> Blue tears group doesn’t represent how believe effective leadership to manifest itself.
🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣


[7/7/2020 1:02 PM] aceat64
note that Raffi completed ignored the actual conversation, which was the GitHub repos

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[7/7/2020 1:03 PM] nullinterface
@aceat64 but you're wrong and keep insisting on being wrong despite your inherent and incorrigible wrongness being pointed out.  so stop being wrong.

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[7/7/2020 1:07 PM] kenpurcell
Stop cherry picking your arguments based on facts!


[7/7/2020 1:07 PM] nullinterface
so-called reasonable suppositions are not at all reasonable


[7/7/2020 6:46 PM] quattroquattro
Marks latest video claims we are trying to silence him. He is not silenced or blocked on talk in any way shape or form.


[7/7/2020 6:48 PM] quattroquattro
It's all about communication but he doesn't let anyone comment on his bullshit videos


[7/7/2020 6:55 PM] kentamanos
Ah, so he's not answering the obvious questions because you guys censored him. Got it...


[7/7/2020 6:55 PM] skyspook
... how? @quattroquattro ... do you control youtube now?


[7/7/2020 6:58 PM] quattroquattro
I hacked the interwebs and made him turn off comments on his own videos. I'm leet like that


[7/7/2020 7:00 PM] quattroquattro
This is me with my covid haircut

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[7/7/2020 8:18 PM] nullinterface
**YOU HAVE HACKED TOO MUCH TIME**

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[7/7/2020 8:56 PM] mark.randall
https://youtu.be/sdEog_1neJ8

{Embed}
Mark Havens
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdEog_1neJ8
What? They Mean! (Andrew fails to discredit his former friend and m...
Andrew LeCody sets a bad example by using low-quality arguments to discredit his former friend and mentor, Mark Havens. Will he ever learn that his behavior is helping to create a culture of bullying and abuse at Dallas Makerspace?
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/F6SUYaXCzUaW7ijQ2JcquU_muZR8RT6LUTh4k0K75tw/https/i.ytimg.com/vi/sdEog_1neJ8/maxresdefault.jpg


[7/7/2020 9:00 PM] yashsedai
hey mark


[7/7/2020 9:00 PM] yashsedai
who are you to talk about low quality arguments....


[7/7/2020 9:00 PM] yashsedai
you can't even be responsible enough to answer basic questions...


[7/7/2020 9:01 PM] yashsedai
and you want to run for the board?


[7/7/2020 9:01 PM] yashsedai
you wanna "restore dms"? start with basic honesty


[7/7/2020 9:07 PM] toenolla
Jesus Christ he's trying to get peoples addresses again.


[7/7/2020 9:09 PM] yashsedai
he's welcome to send a written request


[7/7/2020 9:09 PM] yashsedai
i don't see him doing that though


[7/7/2020 9:09 PM] mark.randall
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1MOFnN_jI0

{Embed}
Mark Havens
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1MOFnN_jI0
What? They Mean! (Why won't he play by my rules!?)
The spokesperson for the Dallas Makerspace board of directors expresses his outrage after his political opponent won't play by his rules!
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/Fmlnvc7tpGCnyq8R7YvGfQt02egv5KY202dxkRkfbjQ/https/i.ytimg.com/vi/Z1MOFnN_jI0/maxresdefault.jpg


[7/7/2020 9:12 PM] yashsedai
oh get out of here


[7/7/2020 9:12 PM] yashsedai
nobody cares


[7/7/2020 9:12 PM] toenolla
Mark...are you okay dude?


[7/7/2020 9:13 PM] yashsedai
one could wonder


[7/7/2020 9:14 PM] yashsedai
lol too busy to talk about dms hahahahaha


[7/7/2020 9:14 PM] yashsedai
the appearance is much worse than any used car salesman


[7/7/2020 9:16 PM] quattroquattro
My favorite quote from his videos is "who works all day and then comes to DMS just to work?"


[7/7/2020 9:16 PM] quattroquattro
All the volunteers...


[7/7/2020 9:16 PM] quattroquattro
People that actually care

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[7/7/2020 9:22 PM] aceat64
That's literally what I did for 5 years while I was President


[7/7/2020 9:22 PM] aceat64
I even worked for DMS on the weekends, occasionally on my lunch breaks too


[7/7/2020 9:27 PM] quattroquattro
All of the volunteers do. It's a labor of love

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[7/7/2020 9:27 PM] roomatologist
I would honestly be worried if those in power who ran the space didn't see it as work. Seems like little would be put into doing anything required.

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[7/7/2020 9:28 PM] roomatologist
I spent two Sundays a month for a year working logistics with storage which would easily be the entire afternoon. Seems like work to me.


[7/7/2020 9:30 PM] mark.randall
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGyWaKzuVkY

{Embed}
Mark Havens
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGyWaKzuVkY
What? They Mean! (Did we put words in his mouth and hoped nobody wo...
The spokesperson for Dallas Makerspace's leadership continues to misrepresent their opponent. Does he truly misunderstand what his opponent says, or is he deliberately misleading his constituency?
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/CpPbcJF6Pc4RhIPJp678t9py4_5QagEg35KIqAh_-v0/https/i.ytimg.com/vi/cGyWaKzuVkY/maxresdefault.jpg


[7/7/2020 9:30 PM] themitch22
Can we block him?


[7/7/2020 9:30 PM] themitch22
there blocked


[7/7/2020 9:30 PM] themitch22
not server wide


[7/7/2020 9:32 PM] roomatologist
How mature, just keep reposting


[7/7/2020 9:33 PM] aceat64
why does he keep reposting the same link?


[7/7/2020 9:33 PM] toenolla
@Roomatologist look again those are all different videos about different talk posts O_O


[7/7/2020 9:33 PM] aceat64
oh, they're different


[7/7/2020 9:33 PM] roomatologist
Oh God


[7/7/2020 9:33 PM] aceat64
I just looked at the thumbnails lol


[7/7/2020 9:33 PM] roomatologist
That's a big nope


[7/7/2020 9:33 PM] roomatologist
Yeah same lol


[7/7/2020 9:34 PM] themitch22
just think how many views he'd get if he just did tutorial videos, or something productive and not personal vendetta.

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[7/7/2020 9:34 PM] aceat64
it's just a kinda weird stalker vibe

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[7/7/2020 9:35 PM] themitch22
I feel bad for his wife/girlfriend


[7/7/2020 9:36 PM] quattroquattro
And he wants the list of all the voting members info


[7/7/2020 9:38 PM] aceat64
hi, here's some creepy videos can I get everyone's mailing address?


[7/7/2020 9:38 PM] themitch22
Wasn't Walter trying to do that too


[7/7/2020 9:38 PM] aceat64
guess I'll change mine to my PO Box again


[7/7/2020 9:39 PM] yashsedai
this is looking like harassment


[7/7/2020 9:39 PM] merissa4308
Seems like it'd be better to just finally throw out the bad apple


[7/7/2020 9:39 PM] themitch22
Maybe he's trying to start the DMS physical mailing list we joked about


[7/7/2020 9:40 PM] yashsedai
lol mark blaming james for culture HAHAHAHAHAHAHA


[7/7/2020 9:40 PM] roomatologist
Not that I'm a member anymore, but I would assume any info I needed could be found on talk or discord. I would not appreciate my info being handed out to members.


[7/7/2020 9:41 PM] themitch22
@merissa considering the previous ban, there's more of a case for it, but it would have to be a clear violation of the anti-harassment policy


[7/7/2020 9:41 PM] themitch22
Maybe this is the plan; bad attention is still attention


[7/7/2020 9:43 PM] merissa4308
Typical troll behavior


[7/7/2020 9:59 PM] anutterbutter
"Take care", lol, love you


[7/7/2020 10:11 PM] quattroquattro
Mark won't respond here because he knows he can't answer the questions people actually have. He wants to attack my ego and anger, or as other people call it, standing up to him and questioning his lies.

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[7/7/2020 10:12 PM] quattroquattro
He knows nothing about how DMS actually runs, he just throws stones. One thing he doesn't know for sure is our Anti-Harassment policy.

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[7/7/2020 10:34 PM] themitch22
The next board will have plenty of opportunity


[7/7/2020 10:38 PM] aceat64
for the record

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[7/7/2020 10:39 PM] aceat64
Pearce banned a nazi once, guess his account got deleted


[7/7/2020 10:40 PM] michaelb5250
fascist account got deleted? I did nazi that coming.

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[7/7/2020 10:45 PM] aceat64
great, the puns are spreading


[7/7/2020 10:48 PM] toenolla
it's a pundemic


[7/7/2020 10:52 PM] aceat64
I can't roll my eyes hard enough

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[7/7/2020 10:58 PM] judykriehn3727
But if you hover over your typing, your whole head spins.

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[7/7/2020 11:07 PM] mell.jpg
Mark seems kind of obsessed with Andrew. In a really unhealthy way IMO.

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[7/8/2020 12:12 AM] stephenie.
*If I was setting up a new makerspace, I would want the mailing list of my competitor's most active members.*

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[7/8/2020 12:23 AM] aceat64
what I don't get is why they don't just follow the established process, why make a post on the forums when the process is to contact the secretary


[7/8/2020 12:23 AM] kentamanos
FUD


[7/8/2020 12:24 AM] kentamanos
I think it causes blowback on them in a big way though


[7/8/2020 12:24 AM] aceat64
I could see posting about it if they tried and never got a response or something


[7/8/2020 12:25 AM] kentamanos
they want to make it seem like there's some sort of fraud going on and they have to get to the truth of it just by even asking for that stuff


[7/8/2020 12:25 AM] aceat64
that's what I did when the previous board didn't respond to my request for financial info, as part of the finance team


[7/8/2020 12:25 AM] aceat64
of course their response was to ban me to try and hide the theft Kris engaged in, but that's a different story 🙂


[7/8/2020 12:26 AM] aceat64
the previous board was real awful, I wonder if that's why the decline in membership sign-ups started under that board :think:


[7/8/2020 12:45 AM] stephenie.
holy 🐮 .  Finished the video where Mark goes after James.  Script reads like straight out of this page:   https://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/10/30/belittling-condescending-and-patronizing

{Embed}
https://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/10/30/belittling-condescending-and-patronizing
Belittling, Condescending and Patronizing — Out of the FOG
Definition:   Belittling, Condescending and Patronizing - This kind of speech is a passive-aggressive approach to giving someone a verbal put-down while maintaining a facade of reasonableness or friendliness.   Masked Nastiness   Many people with Personality Disorders suffer f...

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[7/8/2020 12:46 AM] kentamanos
the one where he talks about James' ego issues? hehe


[7/8/2020 12:48 AM] stephenie.
"By masking their purpose in this way, the perpetrator often hopes to deliver the attack while minimizing the risk of retaliation or being held accountable for their behavior."

No more obvious or effective way to minimize risk of retaliation or being held accountable than to belittle via a YouTube video and lock the comments.


[7/8/2020 12:48 AM] stephenie.
Then post-and-run on a forum.


[7/8/2020 1:00 AM] stephenie.
✅ fake friendliness
✅ advice
✅ words of “wisdom”

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[7/8/2020 4:41 AM] quattroquattro
Posting personal attacks against a member that isn't even a candidate is beyond the pale. His attack on Andrew is based on the fact that Andrew has asked him to answer for actions he can't account for.


[7/8/2020 8:30 AM] kenpurcell
```"Sometimes I steal open source projects and pass it off as my own "Adult" work"``` - Mark Havens


[7/8/2020 8:35 AM] nullinterface
> the one where he talks about James' ego issues? hehe
@Kentamanos yeah, that was amazing to watch him deliver with a straight face

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[7/8/2020 9:15 AM] jswilson64
@mark.randall: How are your videos not violations of the DMS Anti-Harassment policy?


[7/8/2020 9:47 AM] andrew5152
As I have not seen these videos,  nor do I intend to spend that kind of time,  I can't have an opinion on their content. Thank you @jswilson64 for bringing it up, I'm appealing to the larger moderator body to help decide if that content should be moderated off of Talk.

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[7/8/2020 10:23 AM] jswilson64
FWIW I have reported each video to YouTube as bullying.


[7/8/2020 10:24 AM] kentamanos
@jswilson64 I assume the 3 videos Mark did the hit and run with last night? hehe


[7/8/2020 10:26 AM] jswilson64
yes. If I had the energy to go on Facebook I'd report them there as well


[7/8/2020 10:33 AM] merissa4308
jast thankfully they're much shorter (2-5 mins) than his "interview" videos.  Good idea on reporting them jswilson


[7/8/2020 10:35 AM] andrew5152
friendly reminder: we all have the power of the flag, and the power to walk away after throwing a flag on a play...


[7/8/2020 10:35 AM] andrew5152
(on Talk)

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[7/8/2020 10:54 PM] james_david_vance
> note that Raffi completed ignored the actual conversation, which was the GitHub repos
@aceat64 I've looked at the GitHub repos and see no evidence that Mark claims to have written code that he didn't write. In fact there is evidence of him giving credit to the people who wrote the code. I don't think that's compatible with the idea that I've ignored it. What do you think a maintainer is?


[7/8/2020 10:58 PM] james_david_vance
"So my position on that is that it doesn't matter if it's 2k, 5k, or 10k. He was in possession of a large quantity of illegal product and he's not being 100% honest about how it happened."
@quattroquattro You're claiming he's not being honest, and yet I don't see any evidence of that in your message. What specifically did he lie about? Are you referring to the joke he made about brownies?


[7/8/2020 11:01 PM] aceat64
Raffi, you can't possibly be serious


[7/8/2020 11:03 PM] james_david_vance
Apparently reacting to posts when you're silenced, when you were told that you weren't allowed to make posts is "abusing a software bug to post emotes" 
Got this email a while ago:
"You have been suspended from the forum until April 27, 2020, 5:00am.

Violation of Silencing

Violating silence by abusing a software bug to post emotes."


[7/8/2020 11:04 PM] james_david_vance
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/690404549776637972/730211664850452590/giphy.gif

{Embed}
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/690404549776637972/730211664850452590/giphy.gif
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/690404549776637972/730211664850452590/giphy.gif?ex=67b9139b&is=67b7c21b&hm=28aad644dd97f269ce788cb307ba8561ba3466791efb4f3763f4aef443ead781&


[7/8/2020 11:10 PM] james_david_vance
> hi, here's some creepy videos can I get everyone's mailing address?
@aceat64 Are you aware of any candidates having access to members' email addresses? If so, which ones?


[7/8/2020 11:10 PM] aceat64
I'm not, I haven't received any campaign emails either


[7/8/2020 11:10 PM] aceat64
@DJ Vance have you actually looked at the repos?


[7/8/2020 11:11 PM] aceat64
https://github.com/mrhavens/GANaffect/commits/master

{Embed}
https://github.com/mrhavens/GANaffect/commits/master
mrhavens/GANaffect
Contribute to mrhavens/GANaffect development by creating an account on GitHub.
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/EnUNQ8XodfQdf297Mzym-5Y7lXD6feoC1F9hh4GdirU/%3Fs%3D400%26v%3D4/https/avatars1.githubusercontent.com/u/25407680


[7/8/2020 11:11 PM] aceat64
every single commit there is an update to the README or the license to add his name to it


[7/8/2020 11:11 PM] ferricyanide7475
I received a campaign email from Mr Jimmy i think


[7/8/2020 11:11 PM] aceat64
there's not a single bit of original code


[7/8/2020 11:11 PM] james_david_vance
> I received a campaign email from Mr Jimmy i think
@ferricyanide Hmm interesting


[7/8/2020 11:12 PM] james_david_vance
https://github.com/mrhavens/GANaffect/commit/cf498a71a57110062caf3119d40d245b04828bbe

{Embed}
https://github.com/mrhavens/GANaffect/commit/cf498a71a57110062caf3119d40d245b04828bbe
udpated attribuation · mrhavens/GANaffect@cf498a7
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/EnUNQ8XodfQdf297Mzym-5Y7lXD6feoC1F9hh4GdirU/%3Fs%3D400%26v%3D4/https/avatars1.githubusercontent.com/u/25407680


[7/8/2020 11:12 PM] james_david_vance
Now, I will concede that it's not spelled "attribuation"


[7/8/2020 11:12 PM] aceat64
right, he makes it _look_ like it's a fork, but it's just a rebranding with token attribution


[7/8/2020 11:12 PM] james_david_vance
"- Thank goes to [albertpumarola](https://github.com/albertpumarola) for the original research in his [2018](https://arxiv.org/abs/1807.09251) and [2019](https://rdcu.be/bPuaJ) papers, and a very special thanks to him for making his open-source [GANimation](https://github.com/albertpumarola/GANimation) implementation being made avaliable to the affective computing community.
- Thanks goes to [donydchen](https://github.com/donydchen) for his MIT licensed rewrite of GANimation found [here](https://github.com/donydchen/ganimation_replicate)."


[7/8/2020 11:12 PM] aceat64
why have the repo at all if there's no original code and the only change is the name


[7/8/2020 11:13 PM] aceat64
why have a clean commit history, making it harder to do a PR to the upstream repo?


[7/8/2020 11:13 PM] ferricyanide7475
It's rather long i don't feel like posting. I had just assumed he had sent them to everyone


[7/8/2020 11:13 PM] james_david_vance
I didn't get one


[7/8/2020 11:13 PM] james_david_vance
I checked my DMS email too


[7/8/2020 11:14 PM] james_david_vance
> why have a clean commit history, making it harder to do a PR to the upstream repo?
@aceat64 I don't think his intent was to make upstream PRs


[7/8/2020 11:14 PM] aceat64
I agree


[7/8/2020 11:15 PM] aceat64
I think it was to make him look like a devops guys, hence he made all these repos around the same time as he started branding himself as a devops guy


[7/8/2020 11:15 PM] canibalcrab
id rather have dms give out my email, not my physical address if they are forced to when a request is made

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[7/8/2020 11:15 PM] aceat64
I guess it is possible Mark just doesn't understand git, github and forks


[7/8/2020 11:16 PM] james_david_vance
Doesn't the privacy policy say the opposite?


[7/8/2020 11:16 PM] aceat64
but for someone who has been doing devops since 2006, that would be weird


[7/8/2020 11:16 PM] aceat64
note that devops as a term was coined in 2009 though 🙂


[7/8/2020 11:16 PM] james_david_vance
"In compliance with law and our bylaws, DMS will provide Member's names and physical adress only, in response to a valid request for member information."


[7/8/2020 11:17 PM] james_david_vance
https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Rules_and_Policies#Privacy_Policy

{Embed}
https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Rules_and_Policies
Rules and Policies


[7/8/2020 11:19 PM] michaelb5250
I heard he was a principal founder of devops, so it makes sense that he was doing it before it was cool.

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[7/8/2020 11:19 PM] brsims2406
That's right ladies and gents, the night time is the right time and Raffi's here bringing you those golden oldies about plagiarism and some newer nonsense by Draco! Only on 96.3- DMS politics.

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[7/8/2020 11:19 PM] james_david_vance
If I wanted to make money off of something, I wouldn't put it on GitHub for anyone to download and run easily


[7/8/2020 11:20 PM] james_david_vance
> That's right ladies and gents, the night time is the right time and Raffi's here bringing you those golden oldies about plagiarism and some newer nonsense by Draco! Only on 96.3- DMS politics.
@Brsims non-content post

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[7/8/2020 11:20 PM] aceat64
holy crap raffi, are you serious?


[7/8/2020 11:21 PM] aceat64
if you want people to think you are a devops engineer but have never done devops or worked with opensource, what would you do if you didn't care about being honest? you make a bunch of fake repos


[7/8/2020 11:23 PM] aceat64
most people won't look beyond the basics, and if there's no fork indicator, it looks original


[7/8/2020 11:23 PM] aceat64
sure, bury the legal attribution down somewhere, just in case the owner of the copyright notices


[7/8/2020 11:23 PM] aceat64
gotta cya


[7/8/2020 11:24 PM] ferricyanide7475
I think the thing with the voting member address thing was that it's a texas non profit thing, not really a DMS thing?


[7/8/2020 11:25 PM] ferricyanide7475
I would much prefer an email address as well if given the choice.


[7/8/2020 11:32 PM] skyspook
Yea, it's unfortunately listed in a way that forces name and mailing addresses


[7/8/2020 11:33 PM] michaelb5250
I really am coming up blank here. I see laws regarding for profit corporations to release shareholder contact information to other shareholders. But afaik a nonprofit doesn't have owners/shareholders.


[7/8/2020 11:33 PM] skyspook
I think Erik was spot-on with his reply on Talk... the business codes just haven't kept up with modern needs


[7/8/2020 11:33 PM] skyspook
I can grab the section if you want.  It's in my history somewhere


[7/8/2020 11:34 PM] skyspook
Yep, just "The address of each voting member"


[7/8/2020 11:34 PM] michaelb5250
I'm curious if you find it. I see Erik's point regarding for profit corporations, but the non-profit just doesn't have owners or shareholders for those laws to apply to.


[7/8/2020 11:34 PM] skyspook
https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/BO/htm/BO.22.htm#22.158


[7/8/2020 11:35 PM] skyspook
That whole page is chapter 22, for nonprofits. It's riveting.


[7/8/2020 11:36 PM] skyspook
Decided I should probably read up on what's different from Ohio. I think the voting member list was a bit different, but it's been a while.


[7/8/2020 11:38 PM] michaelb5250
Ah, for some reason I was looking for shareholder/owner, which as I quickly found is not a thing lol


[7/8/2020 11:40 PM] michaelb5250
I agree with I think everyone else though, while they call out address, if everyone is fine with email address, it makes life easier.


[7/9/2020 12:30 AM] aceat64
@DJ Vance any idea what the purpose of this repo is? https://github.com/mrhavens/openmaint_docker


[7/9/2020 12:32 AM] aceat64
https://github.com/itmicus/cmdbuild_docker/blob/master/3.1.1/docker-compose.yml
https://github.com/mrhavens/openmaint_docker/blob/master/docker-compose.yml
changed `cmdbuild` to `openmaint`, changed a port, and flipped the app and db service definitions


[7/9/2020 12:33 AM] aceat64
https://github.com/itmicus/cmdbuild_docker/tree/master/3.1.1/cmdbuild
https://github.com/mrhavens/openmaint_docker/tree/master/openmaint
again just changed `cmdbuild` to `openmaint`, and changed the maintainer info


[7/9/2020 12:47 AM] toenolla
I gotta say, at least I've learned some stuff about GitHub this election cycle.

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[7/9/2020 12:48 AM] aceat64
maybe I should do a class 🙂

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[7/9/2020 12:49 AM] kentamanos
step 1: don't use a GUI and force yourself to use CLI on it so you're not being abstracted from what is going on...hehe


[7/9/2020 12:52 AM] aceat64
I make the junior devs on my team squash their commits themselves, instead of relying on gitlab to do it


[7/9/2020 12:52 AM] aceat64
because rebase is a great tool once you understand it


[7/9/2020 12:53 AM] kentamanos
One of my guys check out every single branch to a different directory, and it drives me nuts. As bad as he is at creating chaos though, I don't say much about it.


[7/9/2020 12:53 AM] aceat64
wtf why lol


[7/9/2020 12:53 AM] kentamanos
My main problem is people who use stuff like Source Tree and weird crap doesn't work etc., and it's because Source Tree tried to do you a favor on your behalf, hiding whatever the real problem was


[7/9/2020 12:54 AM] kentamanos
We had a lot of fun with that type of thing when we did our first project with submodules


[7/9/2020 12:56 AM] kentamanos
Web UI guys wanted to do the whole "mono repo" thing, and our architect hated that idea, so I kinda "split the difference" and had them try out submodules. There's so much old FUD out there about submodules, it was scary at first...hehe


[7/9/2020 12:58 AM] aceat64
probably hold overs from SVN


[7/9/2020 12:58 AM] kentamanos
it was good for its time compared to things before it...hehe


[7/9/2020 12:58 AM] kentamanos
When I got out of college, we were using Source Safe, and that was a complete POS 🙂


[7/9/2020 12:58 AM] aceat64
SVN was way way way better than CVS for sure


[7/9/2020 12:59 AM] aceat64
that's about as far back as my experience goes


[7/9/2020 12:59 AM] aceat64
cvs -> svn -> git


[7/9/2020 12:59 AM] aceat64
never really played with bzr or any of the other stuff


[7/9/2020 1:00 AM] kentamanos
just a little mercurial here, which was so much cleaner than git in the beginning


[7/9/2020 1:01 AM] kentamanos
realizing the channel this is...first time it's gone so far off topic I think...hehe


[7/9/2020 1:02 AM] aceat64
lol fair


[7/9/2020 1:11 AM] judykriehn3727
You should do some wiki classes.


[7/9/2020 1:12 AM] aceat64
Again


[7/9/2020 1:12 AM] aceat64
I thought the last one was recorded


[7/9/2020 1:13 AM] aceat64
If I ever get some time I could do it


[7/9/2020 1:13 AM] aceat64
Busy busy busy :/


[7/9/2020 8:47 AM] kenpurcell
When I worked at ARCO they used StarTeam (hated it). The Web guys would check in 400+Mb Photoshop files.


[7/9/2020 9:33 AM] nullinterface
as in a 400MB .psd file?  a couple decades ago?


[7/9/2020 10:35 AM] kenpurcell
yea, it was at least a decade ago


[7/9/2020 1:51 PM] melnick9480


{Attachments}
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[7/9/2020 4:40 PM] aceat64


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https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/730901264468017242/IMG_20200709_163734.jpg?ex=67b8f2d8&is=67b7a158&hm=ab3c3cbd6b1364153a622887daa980a2c40613d4dabefc3a6ac288d466097169&


[7/9/2020 4:40 PM] aceat64
got mine in the mail today, very well put together


[7/9/2020 4:41 PM] canibalcrab
They are awesome


[7/9/2020 4:41 PM] aceat64
this is probably the nicest looking voting setup we've had

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[7/9/2020 4:41 PM] canibalcrab
@judy Kriehn did it

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[7/9/2020 4:41 PM] aceat64
seriously amazing job

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[7/9/2020 4:43 PM] nullinterface
I claim pretty much no credit for the mailing


[7/9/2020 4:43 PM] andrew5152
so THAT'S why so good...

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[7/9/2020 4:43 PM] andrew5152
ROFL


[7/9/2020 4:44 PM] andrew5152
seriously, "ya'll" did a great job!


[7/9/2020 4:44 PM] michaelb5250
Judy does great stuff. She even made some signs for laser scrap... that I promptly never hung... 😔


[7/9/2020 4:45 PM] aceat64
and here I thought the puns were the worst thing on this discord, but "ya'll" instead of "y'all" beats it


[7/9/2020 4:47 PM] aceat64
before I get told my argument is weaksauce again, here's some evidence to support my position on this most important of topics: https://writingexplained.org/yall-or-ya-ll-difference

{Embed}
admin
https://writingexplained.org/yall-or-ya-ll-difference
Y’all or Ya’ll: What’s the Difference? - Writing Explained
STOP! Don't make this mistake ever again. Learn the proper uses and spelling of ya'll and y'all with example sentences at Writing Explained.
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/JSVZ8Wxb2ouAC5d8Nb1UyNjYjFv6FXel2q3Cu8dYUYM/https/writingexplained.org/wp-content/uploads/yall-versus-yall.png

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[7/9/2020 4:50 PM] michaelb5250
I mean y'all is just clearly correct


[7/9/2020 4:50 PM] andrew5152
without bothering to read that, I'll confess being a novice with that word; it's generally to be avoided on my part, and usually I do a fine job. I should have stuck to my more usual improper words for singular collectives (or is that collective singulars...damnit!) or, the more proper, not collecting singulars into a phrase. All parties involved in that mailer deserve a pat on the back.


[7/9/2020 4:50 PM] aceat64
lol


[7/9/2020 5:01 PM] kentamanos
a unique 2nd person plural is a handy tool in the toolbox IMO, even if it takes an officially unrecognized contraction


[7/9/2020 5:11 PM] andrew5152
ah. There's my problem. I was contracting "ya all". So I guess the word I used has a different etymology...a desert/dessert/desert situation, don'chaknow Itellyawhat.


[7/9/2020 8:19 PM] toenolla
The language is dead, long live the language!


[7/9/2020 11:13 PM] hardsuit
Love Mark using green screen backdrop of the DMS Galley girl his latest YouTube vid

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[7/9/2020 11:38 PM] yashsedai
man 1hr 8 minutes of nothing


[7/9/2020 11:38 PM] yashsedai
that takes talent


[7/10/2020 12:19 AM] toenolla
...the galley?  What a weird choice.


[7/10/2020 12:23 AM] themitch22
bringing back that community?


[7/10/2020 12:24 AM] toenolla
was there a community that particularly stayed in the galley?


[7/10/2020 2:18 AM] canibalcrab
Common room yes


[7/10/2020 8:04 AM] quattroquattro
The problem mark is creating here is that his trash talking videos now show as page 1 results when you search Dallas makerspace on youtube. He's damaging the organization with his mischaracterization of dms, it's volunteers and it's members.


[7/10/2020 8:56 AM] toenolla
Meh.  To be persuaded, someone would have to watch the videos, and I honestly don't think they're very compelling.  I just hope he stops after the election.


[7/10/2020 9:01 AM] quattroquattro
Most people only read the headline. All the need to see is a few negative titles in a row and they will begin to doubt the quality of the organization. He doesn't need to convince them anything, just place doubt in their mind to discourage coming for a visit.


[7/10/2020 9:18 AM] merissa4308
Pretty sure the last board badgered Brandon till he took down videos of board meetings he recorded because they had DMS in the title


[7/10/2020 9:29 AM] judykriehn3727
Do people really go to YouTube to find info about DMS???


[7/10/2020 9:34 AM] michaelb5250
I didn't, but it's plausible that someone would go to YouTube to look up a tour of the makerspace before coming out. Especially now that we aren't doing tour nights.


[7/10/2020 9:36 AM] michaelb5250
It seems trivial for someone to out rank us in search results, simply because we don't post much content ourselves. I'm not super worried about potential members who judge us from his videos, personally.


[7/10/2020 9:38 AM] michaelb5250
FWIW, I get 3 or 4 tours of DMS before even one of marks videos, depending on if I'm incognito or not.


[7/10/2020 9:38 AM] michaelb5250
Actually, only one of his videos shows and it's 'DMS Case Study' so not a negative title even.


[7/10/2020 9:42 AM] skyspook
Yep, same. Tours are first. Which is good.


[7/10/2020 9:45 AM] quattroquattro
How-to videos on YouTube generate more daily views that all of hollywood. Since our perspective members are how-to people there is always a chance they are seeing it.


[7/10/2020 9:52 AM] quattroquattro
https://www.thinkwithgoogle.com/data/youtube-learning-statistics/

{Embed}
https://www.thinkwithgoogle.com/data/youtube-learning-statistics/
YouTube learning statistics - Think with Google
86% of U.S. viewers say they often use YouTube to learn new things. Discover more YouTube data on Think with Google.
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/2o4l0-sWiRwBXtq2YPmyjsEdkzz6zgIBzhfpemwcir8/https/www.thinkwithgoogle.com/_qs/static/img/global/twg-logo-large.jpg


[7/10/2020 10:01 AM] michaelb5250
Hypothetically, sure but practically, I don't think it'll cost us members. If we're spending energy to be upset at something, I think there are much more immediate issues to focus on, that will likely gain more members than his videos will cost us.

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[7/10/2020 10:02 AM] michaelb5250
And if it turns out to be a bigger issue, well, he has 22 subscribers and <300 views on those videos. We can film some stuff for the DMS channel and just flood him out of the search results.

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[7/10/2020 10:05 AM] quattroquattro
In a sense you are right, youtube is under performing for us right now because we don't produce any content. If we did we could easily be knocking it out of the park both in membership and ad revenue for us. But due to a lack of digital content being produced we are not even a factor there.


[7/10/2020 10:07 AM] quattroquattro
We have a very talented digital producer who is interested in making stuff, he made the ceramics raku video. And we have that great proposal from @Hardsuit  for a video cart. So I think with some actual leadership in digital media we could produce great stuff that would be a value to the organization

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[7/10/2020 10:40 AM] toenolla
A video cart would be amazing.  I have all my streaming stuff at home attached to a sawhorse so I can move it around the house.


[7/10/2020 10:42 AM] skyspook
@Toenolla if you have some ideas like that for a mobile cart let us know. The cart part is what we haven't figured out yet


[7/10/2020 10:43 AM] toenolla
Let me show you what I've got set up


[7/10/2020 10:46 AM] toenolla


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[7/10/2020 10:47 AM] toenolla
Main overhead camera is on a huge mic arm, got a ring light attached up there as well


[7/10/2020 10:48 AM] toenolla


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https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/731174900730953788/20200710_084526.jpg?ex=67b948f0&is=67b7f770&hm=d6e336122d79c24f43028e42dd850add32bdf60d23313519df122df2ece779c7&


[7/10/2020 10:48 AM] quattroquattro
Nice work!


[7/10/2020 10:48 AM] toenolla
All the equipment is clamped to the sawhorse instead of the table


[7/10/2020 10:48 AM] toenolla


{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/731175016217182218/20200710_084539.jpg?ex=67b9490c&is=67b7f78c&hm=604bf1b1d749b50875cdc8c4c628505131bb3c8f0653c6fb5aaf6fbcbc814811&


[7/10/2020 10:49 AM] toenolla
Added these to store cables


[7/10/2020 10:49 AM] toenolla
Having it on a separate base from the table keeps the extendable arm from shaking


[7/10/2020 10:50 AM] toenolla
next I have to add a shelf for the desktop computer I stream from


[7/10/2020 10:50 AM] skyspook
Very cool. Definitely an idea I wouldn't have had


[7/10/2020 10:51 AM] toenolla
My partner was a tutor so we've been working on this kind of stuff for a while


[7/10/2020 10:51 AM] quattroquattro
That sort of setup would work great inside DMS because it can move to any part of the building easily


[7/10/2020 10:51 AM] quattroquattro
And is obviously durable enough for our hard usage


[7/10/2020 10:51 AM] toenolla
Yeah.  Lights still have to be separate though


[7/10/2020 10:52 AM] toenolla
Yeah, my space isn't that big


[7/10/2020 10:54 AM] toenolla
Obviously if you're working at more than table height you'll need to make adjustments.  And I have a tripod for my second "face" camera


[7/10/2020 10:57 AM] toenolla
I also modded a dremel bench clamp into a great lil' closeup tripod.  Hold on I'll find a photo.


[7/10/2020 11:01 AM] toenolla


{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/731178234489864272/received_1286063154924479.jpeg?ex=67b94c0b&is=67b7fa8b&hm=ecc6fce7c4e91d46d05c40689f3be529f374e0aefd0e14196e33622d7da74668&


[7/10/2020 11:03 AM] kentamanos
I feel like you've thought about this and spent a little time on it? 🙂


[7/10/2020 11:04 AM] toenolla
Yeah mostly because of Ed's tutoring


[7/10/2020 11:04 AM] toenolla
I want to craft stream but I'm having some trouble with engaging the chat and also with OBS 😛


[7/10/2020 11:05 AM] kentamanos
we have a brown bag at work for people to show "non-work related projects" etc. Trying to show some electronics stuff over Zoom with only a laptop camera was a huge wakeup call for me. I need to spend some time for sure. I did end up learning about OBS and attaching my "inspection scope" up to it etc.


[7/10/2020 11:05 AM] toenolla
nice


[7/10/2020 11:06 AM] toenolla
I do wish I had a real sound board; trying to mix audio in the computer is a mistake


[7/10/2020 11:07 AM] kentamanos
trying to show a breadboard, power supply and oscilloscope with just a laptop camera was insanity 🙂


[7/10/2020 11:07 AM] toenolla
oh yeah, nope, not gonna work


[7/10/2020 11:07 AM] kentamanos
very poor planning on my part...hehe


[7/10/2020 11:08 AM] toenolla
eh, this stuff requires time and space and money


[7/10/2020 11:09 AM] toenolla
like, not much.  I think I paid about $300 all told, including replacing a webcam that wandered off.


[7/10/2020 11:09 AM] toenolla
but still


[7/10/2020 11:12 AM] kentamanos
yeah, just a really bad time to be looking for webcams on my part 🙂


[7/10/2020 11:13 AM] toenolla
bad time to go shopping for anything, really


[7/10/2020 11:14 AM] aceat64
are webcams still out of stock everywhere?


[7/10/2020 11:15 AM] toenolla
seems like


[7/10/2020 11:17 AM] kentamanos
I haven't looked again, but I definitely had to "settle for now" and buy a super cheap one about a month ago


[7/10/2020 11:19 AM] skyspook
Just did a quick search, and while supplies are low I could find some c920s and such. So not as dire as it was


[7/10/2020 11:19 AM] toenolla
woo!


[7/10/2020 11:20 AM] kentamanos
yeah, those were definitely not there. I'm sure everyone got the same Google results when looking for reviews etc 🙂


[7/10/2020 11:22 AM] toenolla
yeah.  I was poking around trying to find you a non-Amazon link


[7/10/2020 11:22 AM] toenolla
I didn't find one and also didn't try very hard


[7/10/2020 11:23 AM] toenolla
😉


[7/10/2020 11:41 AM] skyspook
Newegg had a 3rd party selling some. Course, it's 3rd party so who knows


[7/10/2020 12:31 PM] themitch22
I have a dedicated rapsberry pi 4 with MotionEye and a C920 mounted to a boom arm on my work bench. Its always on and IP streaming, I just open xsplit and import it as a web page source.


[7/10/2020 12:32 PM] themitch22
I'm trading up for a gopro 8 and hope that built in rtsp streaming works well


[7/10/2020 12:33 PM] themitch22
Audio, I use a wireless USB lapel mic and Bluetooth ear buds so I don't get echo


[7/10/2020 3:00 PM] andrew5152
@quattroquattro said
> But due to a lack of digital content being produced we are not even a factor there.
For what my opinion is worth (<you paid, probably) this statement has the cart before the horse; nobody is producing any content, because they've never been able to GET any TO the DMS yootoob channel.
I might be wrong, but my perception is that, were I to make a KILLER "how to hammer weld a draught tank bung in stainless steel", nobody knows how to get that into DMS' yootoob channel. I could post it to my own, but not DMS'.
I think if we could get some info out about HOW to do it (and keep that through the changing of Chairs/Directors/Officers), I think more might appear...


[7/10/2020 4:04 PM] quattroquattro
There is some truth to that in that not many people have the know how to produce a good video. But we have been approached by people who want to do it and the things we have approved have never been finished. JJ made us a good template for committee level youtube commercials but it was right when covid-19 hit. We've had people film new tours and we've had people start a lot of stuff, but when it comes to getting into digital media and finishing it there has been little success. 
I think our priority right now should be getting the cart together to stream classes. Once we have some good ones we can do quick into and credits with jjs template and we will be able to start posting decent content.

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[7/10/2020 4:15 PM] andrew5152
looking forward to it.
I think many people (NOT ME, though) see yootoobers and think "I could do that" without so much as an INKLING of what a PITA cutting together and editing a decent video is, or what kind of skill it takes to actually DO a "podcast" or "classstream" (or even a class worth a whooey, honestly). So yeah, I think a lot of us are gung-ho and find ourselves sunk out of site on a project after having had the best of intentions.
I hope you and JJ can get 'em back onto track and look forward to seeing some good stuff. I know we have the talent...


[7/10/2020 4:58 PM] skyspook
Yea, I usually estimate 4-8 times the video length for processing and editing. We may get some folks willing to help out if we get raw material.

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[7/10/2020 5:05 PM] andrew5152
Many hands make light work...


[7/10/2020 5:11 PM] yashsedai
FYI


[7/10/2020 5:11 PM] yashsedai
we actually do have access to the dallasmakerspace account

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[7/10/2020 5:13 PM] andrew5152
Cool.
Document that shit, and get a few other "admins" in there, now, who will outlast the current B&O, or at least who can appoint a few more before they tear their asses...


[7/10/2020 5:15 PM] andrew5152
"having access" has come and gone...3 or 4 times to my observation...usually dependent on someone somewhere stumbling across someone with that knowledge, and then tracking down that one guy who set it up or whatever...no way to run a business.


[7/10/2020 5:15 PM] yashsedai
lol


[7/10/2020 5:15 PM] yashsedai
not surprised


[7/10/2020 5:16 PM] canibalcrab
Yeah coul was the one who deleded all the board meetings


[7/10/2020 5:16 PM] andrew5152
yep. THAT one was a...um...well...I think this is why the phrase SNAFU was invented, roughly.


[7/10/2020 5:17 PM] andrew5152
and Coul talked a great game for about 3 weeks then POOF


[7/10/2020 5:18 PM] aceat64
I was under the impression he was _directed_ to delete them

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[7/10/2020 5:20 PM] andrew5152
I had that impression, too, or maybe more of a "conspired" situation, but...potaytoe, potahtoe.


[7/10/2020 5:20 PM] yashsedai
they are still there


[7/10/2020 5:20 PM] yashsedai
just unlisted


[7/10/2020 5:21 PM] andrew5152
Ah. That, I did *not* know...


[7/10/2020 5:24 PM] canibalcrab
Interesting. I have meetings I'd be curious to scroll back on


[7/10/2020 6:45 PM] kenpurcell
Yeah, I thought they were just delisted like a lot of Mark's videos


[7/11/2020 10:23 AM] nullinterface
24 electronic proxies returned so far!


[7/11/2020 10:25 AM] michaelb5250
Do we have numbers for how many people voted in previous elections? I'm wondering how many more people will vote this time around.


[7/11/2020 10:26 AM] nullinterface
https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Annual_Member_Meeting_20190510#Timeline

{Embed}
https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Annual_Member_Meeting_20190510
Annual Member Meeting 20190510


[7/11/2020 10:26 AM] nullinterface
159 - enough to elect Directors, not enough to amend the bylaws

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[7/11/2020 10:30 AM] stephenie.
Mailed mine in.  @judy Kriehn 's work of art as Civic Duty became Performance Art when I bubbled in my choices.

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[7/11/2020 10:31 AM] stephenie.
I wish I had an ounce of her talent.

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[7/11/2020 10:31 AM] stephenie.
Will have to settle for just being in her orbit.

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[7/11/2020 10:31 AM] andrew5152
If I'm understanding the timeline properly, the cutoff to request voting ability was yesterday, so as of this AM, once all processed, if any requests are outstanding,  we have a solid number of eligible voters... any shot that's all zipped up and you're willing to share that number of potential voters?


[7/11/2020 10:32 AM] nullinterface
she did a fantastic job on the ballot and bylaws

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[7/11/2020 10:32 AM] nullinterface
agenda has preliminary numbers.

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[7/11/2020 10:33 AM] nullinterface
https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Annual_Member_Meeting_20200717#Quorum

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https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Annual_Member_Meeting_20200717
Annual Member Meeting 20200717


[7/11/2020 10:35 AM] nullinterface
I'd also like to encourage everyone to vote 'for' on the bylaws proposals - *especially 2, 3, 4, and 5*

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[7/11/2020 10:35 AM] andrew5152
Excellent!  Thank you!


[7/11/2020 10:41 AM] andrew5152
> I wish I had an ounce of her talent.
Ditto for Erik, with appropriate pronoun sub, whose impeccable attention to detail and astoundingly dogged ability to overcome our severe deficit of documentational excellence  makes this entire organization shine. A paragon we could all strive to emulate, though we will likely always fall short.

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[7/11/2020 12:12 PM] nullinterface
flatterer

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[7/11/2020 1:52 PM] aceat64
ancient historical votes can be found on archive.org:
https://web.archive.org/web/20150905080539/https://dallasmakerspace.org/voting/ballots/index/closed


[7/11/2020 1:56 PM] kentamanos
@aceat64 when did your avatar turn Canadian?


[7/11/2020 1:57 PM] aceat64
last night


[7/11/2020 1:57 PM] aceat64
my friend made it


[7/11/2020 1:57 PM] kentamanos
that's pretty cool


[7/11/2020 1:57 PM] aceat64
it's hilarious in voice/video chat, because it animates when I talk


[7/11/2020 1:57 PM] kentamanos
hehe


[7/11/2020 2:03 PM] kentamanos
It's funny to look at the CNC laser voting too. IMO, the way this was handled is what made me a fan of "ranked-choice voting"...hehe.


[7/11/2020 2:22 PM] nullinterface
ranked choice or approval voting have their strengths


[7/11/2020 2:28 PM] kentamanos
Trying to pick a laser cutter by "hobby/pro", then size, then wattage is probably not a good approach. I'd rather just put my preferences down in order of exact machine to purchase. I get that we didn't really have an easy way to do that at the time etc. 🙂


[7/11/2020 2:29 PM] kentamanos
I don't think we made it to the 3rd round?


[7/11/2020 2:49 PM] michaelb5250
I think that was when we ended up with a Full Spectrum, if I remember my laser history correctly.


[7/11/2020 2:50 PM] aceat64
yeah


[7/11/2020 2:52 PM] michaelb5250
They do make a 1kW laser made for metal... 🤔


[7/11/2020 2:53 PM] michaelb5250
Or well, they sell it. No idea if they're making it. It's 1/4 the price of the metal cutting lasers engraving concepts offers.


[7/11/2020 3:49 PM] anutterbutter
The 2011-2015 voting results are fascinating, are the 2016-2019 available? Kind of wish these would be a bit easier to find for noobs (like me) with interest in history.


[7/11/2020 3:50 PM] canibalcrab
We found some online


[7/11/2020 3:51 PM] canibalcrab
Not sure if archive.org has the more recent years


[7/11/2020 3:58 PM] kentamanos
2017 and 2018 here: https://dallasmakerspace.simplyvoting.com/index.php

{Embed}
https://dallasmakerspace.simplyvoting.com/index.php
Dallas Makerspace :: Online Voting
Dallas Makerspace online voting website


[7/11/2020 4:00 PM] kentamanos
2019 here: https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/election-results-2019-board-bylaws/55577


[7/11/2020 4:01 PM] kentamanos
2016 here: https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/board-of-directors-election-and-logo-voting-results/8770


[7/11/2020 4:02 PM] kentamanos
2016 in screenshot for those who can't reach it:

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[7/11/2020 4:03 PM] kentamanos
same for 2019:

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[7/11/2020 4:06 PM] anutterbutter
Cool! Thank you.


[7/11/2020 4:06 PM] kentamanos
np, was curious if we had them preserved somewhere myself


[7/11/2020 4:14 PM] kenpurcell
That Ken Purcell guy better not run again!

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[7/11/2020 4:15 PM] aceat64
someone could transcribe the old voting system records to the wiki


[7/11/2020 4:16 PM] aceat64
fun fact about the 2011 election, I only got 22 votes because I didn't vote for myself


[7/11/2020 4:16 PM] aceat64
being a board member is an honor and a curse lol


[7/11/2020 4:17 PM] michaelb5250
Oh nice, otherwise you would've had 24


[7/11/2020 4:17 PM] aceat64
23


[7/11/2020 4:17 PM] michaelb5250
Ehh, I'm not sure there.


[7/11/2020 4:17 PM] aceat64
I don't think the voting system had any off-by-one errors lol


[7/11/2020 4:36 PM] michaelb5250
I've made off by one errors, a time or two.


[7/11/2020 4:40 PM] aceat64
The two hardest things in programming:
1. Cache invalidation
2. Naming things
3. Off by one errors

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[7/11/2020 4:43 PM] michaelb5250
I'm not sure if you really made a typo or did that on purpose.


[7/11/2020 4:44 PM] canibalcrab
D. Making lists


[7/11/2020 4:56 PM] kentamanos
Now I don't feel bad now about all the git and webcam talk that I took part in which felt so off topic 🙂


[7/11/2020 5:27 PM] aceat64
oh it was 100% on purpose, it's one of my go to bad jokes


[7/11/2020 5:27 PM] aceat64
I will counter the puns with awful programming humor


[7/11/2020 5:51 PM] michaelb5250
Usually the joke involves an off by one error though...


[7/11/2020 5:52 PM] aceat64
man now you're just gaslighting me lol


[7/11/2020 6:00 PM] nullinterface
Erik Smith in 2016... *that poor bastard*

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[7/11/2020 9:15 PM] themitch22
Just think me or Chuck Baber could have the suckers in 2016 to replace you.


[7/11/2020 9:16 PM] themitch22
If only I would have handed out free candy that year lol


[7/11/2020 9:16 PM] themitch22
The strawberry candies that only grandparents have in glass bowls


[7/11/2020 9:22 PM] toenolla
W e r t h e r ' s  O r i g i n a l s


[7/11/2020 9:31 PM] andrew5152
aw man! Those strawberry candies are the best!

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[7/11/2020 9:32 PM] yashsedai
those are awesome


[7/11/2020 9:33 PM] canibalcrab


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[7/11/2020 9:56 PM] nullinterface
I must be the only non-Boomer that doesn't hate those


[7/11/2020 10:09 PM] andrew5152
did....


[7/11/2020 10:09 PM] andrew5152
did I just get called a "Boomer"?

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[7/11/2020 10:11 PM] axeonos
nah man @aceat64  loves those


[7/11/2020 10:13 PM] aceat64
yeah, they're great


[7/11/2020 10:35 PM] toenolla
A+, put them in my milennial gob


[7/11/2020 10:58 PM] james_david_vance
Erik sent out the electronic voting email from an @gmail account. I don't think that's a permabannable offense. What do you guys think?


[7/11/2020 10:58 PM] aceat64
I don't think anyone cares Raffi


[7/11/2020 10:59 PM] james_david_vance
Ok what about Kevin? Seems like some people cared about that. Isn't the accusation that he did business with a personal email?


[7/11/2020 10:59 PM] aceat64
no, you should try reading it


[7/11/2020 10:59 PM] james_david_vance
Am I missing a significant difference?


[7/11/2020 10:59 PM] aceat64
yes


[7/11/2020 11:01 PM] james_david_vance
Right, the claim isn't that he actually violated the rules. The claim is that he made it so that Jim can't tell if he violated the rules. Right?


[7/11/2020 11:02 PM] james_david_vance
Is it against the rules to inadvertently make a change that makes it so that Jim can't track you?


[7/11/2020 11:04 PM] aceat64
read what Jim posted please


[7/11/2020 11:04 PM] james_david_vance
On Talk?  Is it on a member only thread hidden from the public?


[7/11/2020 11:04 PM] aceat64
oh right, you got yourself banned


[7/11/2020 11:08 PM] james_david_vance
That's the claim, spamming and changing topics midstream


[7/11/2020 11:11 PM] james_david_vance
Or, if you believe Lara, "I filed a complaint against you, recommending a two-week time out from TALK because you continued to harp about what you believed to be unfair moderation after two board members told you it was a dead issue. Please note that during your time out, you will not be able to post to TALK."


[7/11/2020 11:57 PM] nullinterface
@DJ Vance I explained to the Board days ago and they had no real concerns.  I'm done with Secretary after the election anyway.


[7/11/2020 11:58 PM] nullinterface
Also, IDGAF about your opinion at this point


[7/12/2020 12:00 AM] nullinterface
But hey, file a complaint if it pleases you


[7/12/2020 12:00 AM] james_david_vance
I definitely won't


[7/12/2020 12:01 AM] nullinterface
But it violates the precious precious rules you so deeply care about


[7/12/2020 12:06 AM] nullinterface
Nevermind that DocuSign sent it and my personal account was simply reply-to


[7/12/2020 12:46 AM] james_david_vance
I'm serious, I'm not going to file a complaint. What good could come from that?


[7/12/2020 12:46 AM] james_david_vance
And I won't assume malicious intent


[7/12/2020 12:48 AM] aceat64
then why bring it up like it's a cheap jab at "process" or something


[7/12/2020 12:49 AM] aceat64
maybe you don't understand how your actions impact people, but this is why you continually run into issues when working with volunteers at dms


[7/12/2020 12:49 AM] aceat64
try to spend some time thinking about things from someone else's perspective


[7/12/2020 12:49 AM] james_david_vance
For example


[7/12/2020 12:49 AM] james_david_vance
I do


[7/12/2020 12:50 AM] aceat64
your phrasing looks like an attack on Erik, for all the work he did with the voting stuff


[7/12/2020 12:50 AM] aceat64
if it's not, and you're trying to prove a point about some perceived process issue, the result is still the same, you look like a jerk


[7/12/2020 12:51 AM] james_david_vance
It's not an attack of Erik, it's an attack of blowing minor harmless rule violations out of proportion by assuming malicious intent


[7/12/2020 12:52 AM] aceat64
see, you're not understanding the viewpoint I'm describing


[7/12/2020 12:52 AM] aceat64
_you_ don't view it as an attack, but others do


[7/12/2020 12:52 AM] james_david_vance
It is an attack, like I said


[7/12/2020 12:53 AM] aceat64
I'll try to be clearer


[7/12/2020 12:53 AM] aceat64
you don't view it as an attack on Erik, but others do


[7/12/2020 12:53 AM] james_david_vance
Who have you asked?


[7/12/2020 12:54 AM] james_david_vance
Are you suggesting that what I said could easily be misinterpreted?


[7/12/2020 12:54 AM] aceat64
yes


[7/12/2020 12:54 AM] james_david_vance
Well we agree on that


[7/12/2020 12:54 AM] aceat64
great


[7/12/2020 12:55 AM] aceat64
in the future, try to avoid things that cause that type of misinterpretation, and people will be more willing to work with you


[7/12/2020 12:55 AM] james_david_vance
Will do


[7/12/2020 1:05 AM] james_david_vance
Speaking of things that could be easily misinterpreted, I think this can be interpreted two ways (made clearer with parentheses):

Kevin's interpretation:
Require (chairs, officers, and individuals) (acting in a DMS capacity with 3rd parties via email) to use DMS’ provided email system.

vs

Jim's interpretation:
Require (chairs), (officers), and (individuals acting in a DMS capacity with 3rd parties via email) to use DMS’ provided email system.


[7/12/2020 1:17 AM] canibalcrab
:doubt:


[7/12/2020 1:20 AM] aceat64
no, it has to do with the fact that Kevin blocked oversight, not that it was a personal account


[7/12/2020 1:20 AM] aceat64
specifically for the spreadsheet tracking valuable DMS property


[7/12/2020 1:37 AM] james_david_vance
I think those two interpretations are reasonable, what do you guys think?


[7/12/2020 1:38 AM] yashsedai
i think that you are willfully pedantic and live just to whine and cry and defend anything that goes against good order


[7/12/2020 1:38 AM] james_david_vance
Because that rule was linked in the complaint and the interpretation was debated in Kevin's hearing


[7/12/2020 1:38 AM] yashsedai
cause reasons....


[7/12/2020 1:47 AM] james_david_vance
I think what would really help DMS is if we had collaboration that crossed the divide


[7/12/2020 1:48 AM] canibalcrab
because kevin chose to read only part of the phrasing not the whole thing


[7/12/2020 1:49 AM] james_david_vance
I think it's possible to disagree about really important issue and still collaborate


[7/12/2020 1:49 AM] yashsedai
exactly what collaboration have you contributed to?


[7/12/2020 1:50 AM] yashsedai
better, what have you done for dms lately?


[7/12/2020 1:50 AM] yashsedai
besides whine, cry and run your mouth


[7/12/2020 1:56 AM] james_david_vance
I'm an atheist, and I debated a friend who is studying theology. One of my best friends when I was in South Carolina. We both spent a lot of time at the coffee shop. We often had debates about really important things like whether morality is objective or not. We'd disagree with each others arguments, but not once did it get personal. We had mutual respect. Even though we had strongly opposing viewpoints, we had tons of respect for each others intelligence and both argued in good faith. Even though I didn't change my mind on the existence of a god or the objectivity of morality, I feel like I gained a deep understanding of his views. I feel like I really understood exactly what beliefs I would have to change to agree with him.


[7/12/2020 2:06 AM] james_david_vance
What have I done for DMS lately? Not a whole lot. Ben asked me to help move stuff for the computer committee in preparation for opening up so I went and helped. Other than that, I was doing a weekly coder night for a while, not very well-attended, I only got it up to 3-5 attendees per meeting. Did a thing about Unity, did a few things about iOS development. I invited James to do a Talk on Dialogflow. I think he did two of those. I think he did a great job. There was going to be a competition with pizza giftcards involved.


[7/12/2020 2:11 AM] james_david_vance
I think there are opportunities though. I think if people collaborate across the divide that would be really good. If it's in a public way, for example with an online event or class, I think that could do a lot to change the tone of the space.


[7/12/2020 2:35 AM] draco_the_drake
@DJ Vance It is a good idea but how do you do that without identifying the divide


[7/12/2020 7:03 AM] anutterbutter
People are people, so why should it be, you and I get along so aaawfully, bummm, bummm, bummm...


[7/12/2020 7:56 AM] quattroquattro
>  I was doing a weekly coder night for a while, not very well-attended, I only got it up to 3-5 attendees per meeting. Did a thing about Unity, did a few things about iOS development. I invited James to do a Talk on Dialogflow. I think he did two of those. I think he did a great job. There was going to be a competition with pizza giftcards involved.
@DJ Vance 
The offer is still on the table if anyone finishes a prototype.
For online classes @Melnick is teaching a bunch and getting fantastic response. 
We also filmed stuff for a ceramics class yesterday and spoke with someone from laser about filming the 101 class for them. 
There is a lot of work going on towards moving us to more online classes and online tool signoff. 
If you brought back your coder nights you would likely see more involvement as people have become more accustomed to online learning now that we've all been doing it for so many months.

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[7/12/2020 10:23 AM] kenpurcell
The core at why there was a problem with a chair moving communications off of DMS controlled accounts was that it removed insight into where our very expensive cameras/equipment were going and with whom. Afterwards the discussion went that Kevin threatened to remove oversight intentionally.


[7/12/2020 11:00 AM] quattroquattro
Kevin has a copy of the panel interview and investigation video. You are welcome to ask him to view it.


[7/12/2020 11:27 AM] james_david_vance
I've seen it. I haven't read Jim's explanation to Kevin or Kevin's threat to take stuff off of Google Groups


[7/12/2020 12:23 PM] james_david_vance
I'll be doing a coding interview prep session in a week. Hopefully we can get people from both sides 🙂

https://calendar.dallasmakerspace.org/events/view/15844


[7/12/2020 12:43 PM] stephenie.
> I've seen it. I haven't read Jim's explanation to Kevin or Kevin's threat to take stuff off of Google Groups
@DJ Vance why do you act as proxy when you have incomplete information?


[7/12/2020 1:15 PM] james_david_vance
I don't think I'm acting as a proxy


[7/12/2020 1:15 PM] james_david_vance
I can see how it would come off that way though


[7/12/2020 1:19 PM] james_david_vance
I think it's clear from the video that Kevin and Jim have two different interpretations of the DMS email requirement. Does stating that make me a proxy? I don't think so.


[7/12/2020 1:36 PM] quattroquattro
When you start with the assumption that Erik having a replyto: that is the wrong address is the same as changing the group permission so that the organization can't have visibility into business related communication, yes. That makes it appear that you are acting as their proxy. 
All data related to DocuSign is tracked by DocuSign, easily reviewable and is the property of DMS.  It's not even remotely the same thing.


[7/12/2020 1:38 PM] draco_the_drake
Can members view the DocuSign data? If so, how?  Can Infrastructure view all Google Groups regardless of some owner's config?


[7/12/2020 2:04 PM] aceat64
oh right, I forgot the Draco crew hates online voting because it's harder to gaslight people who aren't there in person


[7/12/2020 2:05 PM] aceat64
remember last year when Erik and I had to do our own proxy voting setup just so a large portion of the membership could vote?


[7/12/2020 2:07 PM] aceat64
> Kris Anderson <kriskat30@dallasmakerspace.org>
> Fri, May 10, 2019, 10:38 AM
> to me, Alex, Dallas, David, David
> 
> You have been notified of the minutes. As someone who is not a member you can do whatever you want however I will ask for all  proxies you handle to be invalidated.


[7/12/2020 2:08 PM] aceat64
this was of course _after_ the lawyer told them the proxies can't just be invalidated

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[7/12/2020 2:12 PM] themitch22
but hey at least kris used a dms email address...

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[7/12/2020 2:12 PM] aceat64
lol


[7/12/2020 2:13 PM] themitch22
Does dms still use that lawyer?


[7/12/2020 2:14 PM] michaelb5250
I thought the current board found a different lawyer


[7/12/2020 2:17 PM] draco_the_drake
"oh right, I forgot the Draco crew hates online voting because it's harder to gaslight people who aren't there in person"  ... wow that is a false statement ... I was the one that suggested it this year


[7/12/2020 2:21 PM] michaelb5250
It's... Hard to argue that suggesting such an obvious thing has any value. In a year where we don't want to hold an in person election, online voting would be a thing wether you said it or not.


[7/12/2020 2:22 PM] hon1nbo
lol @Draco I had to un-ignore you to find your pedantry on this topic previously: https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/membership-meetings-quorum-and-votes/54603/5?u=hon1nbo
You constantly argued against our system claiming it's not allowed, despite claiming to be in favor


[7/12/2020 2:24 PM] draco_the_drake
Online Voting at an Online Meeting has always been fine ... or Online Proxies has always been fine ... even last year


[7/12/2020 2:24 PM] draco_the_drake
You must have misunderstood


[7/12/2020 2:25 PM] draco_the_drake
SimplyVoting is not a proxy was my issue


[7/12/2020 2:26 PM] hon1nbo
https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/online-option-for-2019-board-election-proxies/55107


[7/12/2020 2:26 PM] hon1nbo
then there is that dumpster fire of a thread


[7/12/2020 2:26 PM] hon1nbo
except is is draco


[7/12/2020 2:26 PM] hon1nbo
just pedantry


[7/12/2020 2:26 PM] hon1nbo
anyway back to the mute/ignore. I've had my fill of reading this channel for the day


[7/12/2020 2:30 PM] draco_the_drake
I had no issue with Docusign last year or this year


[7/12/2020 7:10 PM] aceat64
some sure did


[7/12/2020 7:19 PM] slinkygn
> lol @Draco I had to un-ignore you to find your pedantry on this topic previously: https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/membership-meetings-quorum-and-votes/54603/5?u=hon1nbo
> You constantly argued against our system claiming it's not allowed, despite claiming to be in favor
@hon1nbo (k/j/t) exsilium Hey, Jim, you actually asked me about this in person at the time. I was providing information for you, and Draco, and Kris, and everybody involved. There *were* issues with proper handling of the vote, the bulk of which were remedied - but were legit to bring up while they hadn't been.


[7/12/2020 7:20 PM] yashsedai
what?


[7/12/2020 7:21 PM] slinkygn
For disclosure for those who weren't there, I was providing parliamentary opinion as I had offered my services as Professional Registered Parliamentarian pro bono to the space to figure out how to handle the multiple issues we were running into with elections at the time - some of which meant that, if not resolved, we wouldn't be able to hold any valid votes at our annual meeting at all.


[7/12/2020 7:21 PM] yashsedai
lol


[7/12/2020 7:21 PM] yashsedai
i remember you


[7/12/2020 7:21 PM] yashsedai
perceived issue


[7/12/2020 7:21 PM] slinkygn
I'd hope so! Not exactly new.


[7/12/2020 7:22 PM] slinkygn
Perceived issue?


[7/12/2020 7:22 PM] yashsedai
the issues were not issues


[7/12/2020 7:22 PM] yashsedai
i.e. made up


[7/12/2020 7:22 PM] yashsedai
a figment of draco's imagination


[7/12/2020 7:22 PM] slinkygn
I gave, and stand by, my professional opinion. And helped both sides come to a resolution on them.


[7/12/2020 7:23 PM] slinkygn
If you would like to file a complaint on my professional conduct or performance, the National Association has a mechanism for that.


[7/12/2020 7:24 PM] yashsedai
considering that we don't use roberts rules...


[7/12/2020 7:24 PM] yashsedai
nor do we actually use src3 strictly


[7/12/2020 7:24 PM] yashsedai
why would i file a complaint against you?


[7/12/2020 7:24 PM] slinkygn
That is of no relevance. My performance is independent of the rules set used by the organization involved.


[7/12/2020 7:25 PM] yashsedai
some pigs are more equal...


[7/12/2020 7:25 PM] slinkygn
Very few use straight Robert's - or, for that matter, even straight src3 - which isn't even really possible, as it is missing too many fringe cases to cover everything.


[7/12/2020 7:26 PM] slinkygn
The other US parliamentary organization - which I am also a member of - certifies professionals on 5 or 6 different texts.


[7/12/2020 7:26 PM] yashsedai
the whole bs with draco and his "bylaws group" and the fact that the last board actually entertained such nonsense was laughable and sad beyond belief


[7/12/2020 7:26 PM] yashsedai
that and wasted member funds on meeting with the lawyer


[7/12/2020 7:27 PM] slinkygn
The core premise is the same: the expertise isn't in knowing one book, or even six; it's in knowing the roots of parliamentary procedure, interpretation of written rule, and how to use both of those to run smoother meetings.


[7/12/2020 7:27 PM] yashsedai
which has what to do with organziation policy?


[7/12/2020 7:28 PM] slinkygn
I wasn't in the bylaws group, but I did suggest - to both Draco and Jim, actually - that fixing up some of the more glaring inconsistencies with the bylaws would help prevent the issues we had in the future.


[7/12/2020 7:29 PM] slinkygn
Organization policy is codified in bylaws, and said bylaws form the framework for what you can and can't do in a meeting, as they are the primary rules that are documented and agreed to within an organization. Both in the context of parliamentary law and pragmatically in state statute.


[7/13/2020 7:24 AM] james_david_vance
https://youtu.be/NNto0bq5Ds8

{Embed}
Mark Havens
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNto0bq5Ds8
Evolution of Trust: Dallas Makerspace Edition
Mark and Raffi model Dallas Makerspace using game theory. How can game theory help make Dallas Makerspace a better place?

https://ncase.me/trust/
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/VPpQhlNQstgQ04_7TNnQGSgFdbRtaLfLN0P0G9Ti99s/https/i.ytimg.com/vi/NNto0bq5Ds8/maxresdefault.jpg


[7/13/2020 7:42 AM] nullinterface
our bylaws need to be *thoroughly* re-worked


[7/13/2020 7:46 AM] nullinterface
however, I suspect that the necessary changes would prove sufficiently controversial that they would never pass


[7/13/2020 7:47 AM] slinkygn
I am pretty sure I mentioned that, too - but I also mentioned, having worked with a number of orgs, 1) the difficulty of passing a wholesale top-down new set of bylaws in even the most disciplined and unified of bodies, and 2) the inherent best-case futility (and worst-case... well, it's bad) of metaphorically taking a scalpel that belongs to a surgeon and handing it to a committee of interested non-medics :)


[7/13/2020 7:47 AM] slinkygn
Yup, you got that out faster than I did :)


[7/13/2020 7:48 AM] nullinterface
our roots as an *informal organization* that's never come to terms the failure of informal consensus at a certain scale is a big factor


[7/13/2020 7:50 AM] slinkygn
Yup, certainly a relevant component


[7/13/2020 7:50 AM] slinkygn
Robert actually had a famous(-for-him) quote saying something similar


[7/13/2020 7:51 AM] slinkygn
It's actually at the beginning of every RONR, come to think :)


[7/13/2020 9:25 AM] kenpurcell
Why doesn't Mark spend time on what he would do to lead DMS, instead of harping on the past?

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[7/13/2020 9:26 AM] kenpurcell
Shitting on what other members, D & O and volunteers have done is easy. Actually leading is hard.

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[7/13/2020 9:27 AM] yashsedai
How about spending time on just helping the organization out? Show up, do things, etc

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[7/13/2020 9:32 AM] kenpurcell
How about he never apologized for his wife screwing DMS for over $9,000 for teaching class for certifications where she did not have credentials to give certifications.


[7/13/2020 9:35 AM] kenpurcell
Using game theory for a specific example as how DMS works is dumb. All those behaviors are very common in life in general. The only thing I got out of it is that in the video, one is the Simpleton and one is the Cheater. You can easily determine who is who.


[7/13/2020 9:37 AM] nullinterface
I have paid little attention to Mark's videos


[7/13/2020 9:39 AM] kenpurcell
You are better at spending your time on higher quality pursuits.


[7/13/2020 9:55 AM] quattroquattro
@Lampy (Ken Purcell) pretty much anything is a higher quality pursuit isn't it?


[7/13/2020 9:55 AM] michaelb5250
Speaking of helping out, Jim managed to pull everything together last minute and we've got two big hang-from-the-ceiling style air filters in the warehouse.

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[7/13/2020 9:55 AM] yashsedai
did you guys price out the filters?


[7/13/2020 9:56 AM] yashsedai
and who paid?


[7/13/2020 9:59 AM] michaelb5250
Jim knows better about the money. We've got two filters in decently good shape and two brand new.

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[7/13/2020 10:08 AM] judykriehn3727
Which warehouse? The laser/automotive warehouse or the ceramics/plastic/machine shop/jewelry workshop?


[7/13/2020 10:10 AM] michaelb5250
They're just sitting on a pallet in the ceramics/machine shop warehouse. One for metal and one will go somewhere near laser/auto/woodshop.


[7/13/2020 10:12 AM] judykriehn3727
Oh. You were saying he rounded up enough truck owners to p/u the filter thingies he posted about. I interpreted it as having gotten two units installed.


[7/13/2020 10:13 AM] michaelb5250
Oh no sorry, rounded up a trailer and got them picked up.


[7/13/2020 10:37 AM] nullinterface
woodshop always pisses and moans about the cost of filters for the Jet air cleaners - I gather that with a surprisingly small minimum order you can get filters custom-made by a number of outfits at a fraction of what Jet demands for their brand


[7/13/2020 10:24 PM] hardsuit
Yes you can.  That's exactly what my boss did for the two Jet clones we have at work


[7/13/2020 11:51 PM] agvet
>  How about he never apologized for his wife screwing DMS for over $9,000 for teaching class for certifications where she did not have credentials to give certifications.


[7/13/2020 11:51 PM] agvet
The Sigma 6 class?

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[7/13/2020 11:51 PM] agvet
That was his wife?

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[7/13/2020 11:54 PM] themitch22
ex wife IIRC


[7/14/2020 12:16 AM] draco_the_drake
Yes it was his ex-wife who screwed him over as well.  It had nothing to do with Mark.


[7/14/2020 12:22 AM] themitch22
And his new wife who's half his age. I hope her and kid are doing well


[7/14/2020 12:25 AM] axeonos
As long as she's over the age of consent for America.... age doesn't matter

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[7/14/2020 7:38 AM] kenpurcell
I only mentioned he never apologized or assisted in the issue with his wife, later ex-wife.


[7/14/2020 9:25 AM] nullinterface
**PSA: ** *Voting members should vote in the DMS election!*

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[7/14/2020 9:29 AM] nullinterface
I won't endorse any specific candidates, but I do feel that bylaws amendments 2, 3, and 5 are *exceptionally* worthy of a ***For*** vote


[7/14/2020 10:09 AM] kenpurcell
Yes Sir!


[7/14/2020 11:03 AM] slinkygn
@Lampy (Ken Purcell) I think his point is that the explanation for that may likely be embedded in the statement itself.


[7/14/2020 11:05 AM] slinkygn
Also, I think it's kind of a weird position to put someone in to ask them to apologize for their spouse.  Not just weird for them, but weird for their spouse.  Apologizing for one's child, sure.  But for another adult, with individual agency?


[7/14/2020 11:07 AM] slinkygn
Hell, if I were that spouse I might just be pretty peeved at someone presuming I should feel like what I did merited an apology in the first place. Independent of whether an apology is due.  In this case, it seems like a sound argument that one was.  But if the person who did the wrong in the first place isn't sorry to begin with (certainly not sorry enough to apologize themselves), how is an apology from someone else in any way useful?


[7/14/2020 11:31 AM] quattroquattro
@slinkygn (George) people apologize for their spouses all the time. Especially in the cases of fraud or other offensive behavior. It's pretty standard behavior, just watch the evening news any time someone even semi famous gets arrested. Or talk to the sober spouse of someone that had too much to drink at a party. 
It's not too much to ask to expect an some form of contrition from someone who's spouse ripped us off.


[7/14/2020 11:32 AM] slinkygn
"People do it" vs "people *should* do it" is a very different statement.  Frankly, though, I don't tend to see that on the evening news at all.  The spouse usually stays mum.  If you see it on the news, it's the person themselves apologizing with the spouse standing in the background.


[7/14/2020 11:33 AM] slinkygn
Besides, I don't think it's a sufficient counterargument to the agency and independence of adults, and the responsibilities that come with that, to say, "people do it all the time."


[7/14/2020 11:34 AM] slinkygn
If you do something, and you think you did the right thing, and then somebody apologizes for you -- you don't find that belittling, demeaning?  Trivializing your decision and your rationale?


[7/14/2020 11:35 AM] slinkygn
And if you do something, and you know you did something wrong, and you don't apologize -- that speaks volumes to *you*, and nobody should somehow be able to ameliorate that.


[7/14/2020 11:38 AM] slinkygn
Both spouses in a relationship are independent adults.  Nobody forces anyone -- *or* their spouse, which in another context could themselves just as easily be the "anyone"  -- to deal with their spouse.  It's not the first time we've had a snake oil salesman teach a course, you know.  We didn't demand that their spouse come in and apologize -- easy enough to make the phone call -- because it's not *relevant*.


[7/14/2020 11:39 AM] mell.jpg
Yeah I don't care about Mark not apologizing for Diedre. He didn't have to.

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[7/14/2020 11:40 AM] slinkygn
Sorry.  I just find the whole idea of insisting that someone has a responsibility to answer for their spouse to be incredibly toxic and demeaning.  That tactic's been used to subjugate the independence of one or the other partner in a relationship far too often for far too long.

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[7/14/2020 11:55 AM] kenpurcell
I did not insist anything, he didn't say anything about the mess we had to clean up. Nothing. He talks about community but doesn't really participate in it.

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[7/14/2020 12:08 PM] mell.jpg
Mark not actually doing anything for the space is something I agree with.


[7/14/2020 12:15 PM] slinkygn
That's a valid complaint.  That he "didn't say anything" about something that involved his spouse, and that some seem to think that reflects on him as failing some moral or conceptual obligation to the 'space, isn't.  Nor is saying that *that* is proof he doesn't participate.


[7/14/2020 12:15 PM] slinkygn
Keep it above the belt, and I have no issue with the complaint.


[7/14/2020 12:16 PM] slinkygn
There's waaaay too much "it's okay if I'm shitty because the other side's doing it too" in this election.  I don't think I've ever felt quite as "a pox on both their houses" as I do this year -- and that's saying something.


[7/14/2020 12:19 PM] mell.jpg
Yeah i think there's plenty very valid reasons to criticize Mark this just isn't one I follow.


[7/14/2020 12:21 PM] mell.jpg
For another take on it that both reflects why Mark doesn't represent Diedre *and* why Mark is dumb-- some people always used to assume and push the narrative that Alex and I agreed on everything in regards to the Space and governance and all kinds of things. Mark Havens, in fact, once came to a PR meeting for chair where I was running and actively campaigned against me bc I was supposedly just a mouthpiece for Alex, whatever that means. A committee that I had been actively volunteering in for something like 2 years at that point, putting together more and more organized open houses every year, going to events, putting out copy, spending the vast majority of my free time in. A committee I had never seen him at a meeting before in, he came in talking about how I was a good worker bee but not good leadership (a comment he's repeated about many others) and that Alex had enough sway as President etc etc. And he managed to make his case because he's Mark and in the end it was a close vote.

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[7/14/2020 12:34 PM] aceat64
if there's actually anything I've done that's shitty, please let me know, always open to constructive criticism

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[7/14/2020 12:36 PM] aceat64
@mell that was a concern by some when Nicole and I were on the board, we just laughed about it, because Nicole was almost always the dissenting voice lol


[7/14/2020 12:37 PM] mell.jpg
Ikr! Like none of those people ever actually had DMS conversations with me and Alex because we disagreed all the time.


[7/14/2020 12:37 PM] aceat64
I'm pretty sure I am much less likely to have any sway over Nicole's views at DMS or elsewhere than other people 🤣


[7/14/2020 12:38 PM] kenpurcell
I've always thought of you and Alex as independent thinkers and both do excellent and productive work for DMS. I was sloppily trying to comment that Mark is still doing Mark things except he is making it very personal for some people.

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[7/14/2020 12:38 PM] mell.jpg
🤣. She's immune to you at this point.

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[7/14/2020 3:44 PM] slinkygn
> if there's actually anything I've done that's shitty, please let me know, always open to constructive criticism
@aceat64 as the person that specifically cited both sides as "shitty," I'll be the first to say that may have been overly strong. In particular, I don't think it applies to everyone on each side. And specifically, I've always thought you're a pretty civil guy.

That said, I do think it's a fair thing to say that tolerating bad behavior on one's side instead of calling it out is still a significant factor in bad blood getting built up between good people. I think individually pointing those instances out to those people within one's camp, and potentially making a more public statement about not engaging in that way if it persists, is an unpleasant but necessary component of that. And while I (or anyone external to the groups) certainly wouldn't see the personal conversations, the fact that the same people keep repeating the same behaviors would lead one to believe that they're not taken seriously by the group.


[7/14/2020 3:46 PM] slinkygn
It's a hard thing to do, and I get that. And I also don't think just throwing people under the bus and being all, "man, XYZ is such a DICK" is particularly beneficial. Don't think I've called any specific person out, don't plan to, don't think it should likely happen at all except in the most extreme of circumstances.


[7/14/2020 3:46 PM] slinkygn
Since I'm also in neither camp, it would do little good for me to do so, natch.


[7/14/2020 3:46 PM] slinkygn
But nah, Andy, you're pretty clean. :)


[7/14/2020 3:47 PM] aceat64
oh I for sure call people out lol

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[7/14/2020 3:51 PM] slinkygn
Tl;dr both sides have some shitty, but not everybody's shitty. I shouldn't have implied that, and I'm sorry.


[7/14/2020 10:04 PM] nullinterface
last round of electronic proxies have been sent

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[7/14/2020 10:44 PM] toenolla
@mell I had no idea that happened.  That's an awful way to treat our volunteers.


[7/14/2020 11:13 PM] canibalcrab
mell has been abused as a volunteer


[7/14/2020 11:14 PM] canibalcrab
but hey people are upset that we kicked people out for threatening volunteers


[7/14/2020 11:15 PM] mell.jpg
It's honestly kind of crazy how much my exposure to DMS has changed the way I approach people. Like just by nature I always want to like people and assume good intentions. But after DMS... mmmm Not so much.


[7/14/2020 11:18 PM] mell.jpg
Yup. This board is constantly being criticized for kicking out people for no reason etc. But hey I'm pretty happy they kicked out the guy who told me he'd "start swinging" when I asked him if he could move his motorcycle over a bit so we could pull in the truck for logistics offsiting.


[7/14/2020 11:28 PM] nullinterface
clearly, it can't always be a *hippie jam fest*


[7/14/2020 11:32 PM] toenolla
It's a pity.  I like jam.


[7/14/2020 11:32 PM] mell.jpg
But I also have to add that I've made lots of great friends here and love lots of my memories. DMS is and I think always will be a mixed bag.


[7/14/2020 11:33 PM] aceat64
that dude wasn't even working on the bike either, he was literally just parked


[7/14/2020 11:34 PM] aceat64
I'm literally the antichrist and I don't park my bike inside unless it's raining


[7/14/2020 11:35 PM] nullinterface
> I'm literally the antichrist and I don't park my bike inside unless it's raining
@aceat64 better get to it - *there are souls to corrupt*

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[7/14/2020 11:44 PM] stephenie.
> But hey I'm pretty happy they kicked out the guy who told me he'd "start swinging" when I asked him if he could move his motorcycle over a bit so we could pull in the truck for logistics offsiting.
@mell He was only tempBanned and can return 10 days from now.  After which he "will be under probation once this expulsion expires until 2021-07-24 and subject to immediate expulsion for any failure to strictly adhere to the rules and bylaws of the Dallas Makerspace".  But we see how well a similar provision worked with Mark Havens.


[7/14/2020 11:57 PM] brsims2406
We expell too many, we don't expell enough...
https://media.tenor.com/images/23332eb0d024cc1566c878e70f071945/tenor.gif

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https://media.tenor.com/images/23332eb0d024cc1566c878e70f071945/tenor.gif
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/hDjBs-fww5JuV63D8Nzv7Ay4wU4TlUfNU6qy5uq3lC4/https/media.tenor.com/images/23332eb0d024cc1566c878e70f071945/tenor.gif


[7/14/2020 11:58 PM] brsims2406
(not on premise of course)


[7/14/2020 11:58 PM] judykriehn3727
But... Bill was tight with the Kris posse, so he may not return anyway. Let's hope anyway. His pickup always had the look of a residence (bags of crap piled to the ceiling inside). And since you can't live here anymore.


[7/15/2020 1:06 AM] axeonos
New dms drinking game. Take a shot each time someone mentions banning, being banned or talking of a ban. Livers beware. Also drink responsibility. Dont do this game cause you'll get alcohol poisoning... and don't drink at DMS

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[7/15/2020 9:47 AM] judykriehn3727
Maybe, instead of doing alcohol drinking games, we could switch to water drinking games. Then we’d just pee a lot.

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[7/15/2020 9:57 AM] andrew5152
not amusingly, some frats were doing this, which is dangerous as well...couple people died, if I recall the news stories at the time...
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/318619

{Embed}
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/318619
Water intoxication: What happens when you drink too much water?
Drinking too much water can lead to water intoxication, which can be fatal. However, this is rare. Learn about the symptoms, causes, and risk factors here.
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/zaRDIeQnHgyMxHbfcSq_HvMz7muDMwenCO85yiJUoqQ/https/post.medicalnewstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2020/05/GettyImages-514740916_thumb-732x549.jpg


[7/15/2020 9:57 AM] andrew5152
https://www.healthline.com/health/how-much-water-can-kill-you

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https://www.healthline.com/health/how-much-water-can-kill-you
How Much Water Can Kill You? Water Intoxication Symptoms & Causes
Water is crucial for your health, but drinking too much of it can become life-threatening. Learn how much is too much and how to recognize the symptoms of water intoxication.
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/gAJa_796OwrNzMeYzv7W-aluOi-_kYO5U7F3srNIJvs/https/post.healthline.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Female_Water_732x549-thumbnail.jpg


[7/15/2020 9:58 AM] andrew5152
<-- deter downer, I know...


[7/15/2020 9:58 AM] andrew5152
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hazing-death-too-much-water/
https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/CHICO-Fraternity-pledge-died-of-water-poisoning-2733418.php

{Embed}
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hazing-death-too-much-water/
Hazing Death: Too Much Water
Cops: Calif. Student Dies From 'Water Intoxication' At Fraternity
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/AEtGYO1xgGA3PF76tr8aEZbzVllXPWJElF0J3Hv-lSY/https/cbsnews2.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2005/02/04/d12eae8c-a642-11e2-a3f0-029118418759/thumbnail/1200x630/5d4f5368b279e704c719850c9d8da324/image671784x.jpg

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https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/CHICO-Fraternity-pledge-died-of-water-poisoning-2733418.php
CHICO / Fraternity pledge died of water poisoning / Forced drinking...
A Chico fraternity pledge died of water poisoning, authorities said Thursday as experts warned that the dangerous hazing ritual has killed at least one other person as fraternities are replacing alcohol bingeing with excessive water-drinking.  Matthew Carrington, 21, of Pleasa...
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/gcMgyUPb8MfCqofb2fsMAW5ljHpRUtPkIXjnxiKSy24/https/www.sfgate.com/img/pages/article/opengraph_default.png


[7/15/2020 10:06 AM] quattroquattro
Maybe we do push-ups each time it's mentioned. We would all be super jacked!

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[7/15/2020 10:07 AM] andrew5152
yeah...
wait... are you trying to prove that too many pushups is just as dangerous as too much alcohol?

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[7/15/2020 10:11 AM] aceat64
> And people … that quilt that was posted above with all the buttons was Marks Artwork not Max’s …
This is probably the most damning thing Draco has ever said. Because either he hasn't bothered to read and understand anything people have posted about this issue, or he truly thinks the rest of us are idiots.

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[7/15/2020 10:13 AM] aceat64
for those out of the loop, he's talking about this "artwork" Mark made to make fun of and harass other members. Which is what got him banned in 2016.

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[7/15/2020 10:27 AM] quattroquattro
As I understand it the star trek onesie is a direct insult to Max, is that correct?

The buttons then insult each individual candidate, right?

Is this what he means by community?

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[7/15/2020 10:32 AM] draco_the_drake
It's not what I mean when i say community


[7/15/2020 10:32 AM] draco_the_drake
and I don't think he was saying community when he did that


[7/15/2020 10:34 AM] toenolla
No, he was, by his account, harassing people to antagonize the board. To "test the system" as he put it.


[7/15/2020 10:35 AM] toenolla
At least, that's the best I can remember.


[7/15/2020 10:36 AM] draco_the_drake
Alright .. sounds about right


[7/15/2020 10:36 AM] toenolla
It doesn't make sense to me so it can be hard to accurately portray


[7/15/2020 10:36 AM] draco_the_drake
I wonder if he published a study


[7/15/2020 10:37 AM] toenolla
Like... An academic study?


[7/15/2020 10:37 AM] draco_the_drake
lol .. well he was testing .. I'm joking


[7/15/2020 10:37 AM] toenolla
Oh lol sorry


[7/15/2020 10:38 AM] draco_the_drake
Yeah no doubt he has a rebel streak in him


[7/15/2020 10:39 AM] draco_the_drake
but part of that... as long as it doesn't get out of hand .. and I'm NOT talking going to the level of harassment .. I admire because it is that sort of risk taker that is valued in entrepreneurs

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[7/15/2020 10:40 AM] aceat64
Max had a very nice star trek costume on display, Mark put a button on it without his permission which damaged the fabric (very tight weave iirc).


[7/15/2020 10:41 AM] aceat64
Mark didn't apologize, claimed someone else must have put the button on it, then made that "artwork" to call Max a baby.


[7/15/2020 10:41 AM] draco_the_drake
I don't think there was any evidence that Mark put anything on Max's unifom ... and Max is okay with Mark at this point


[7/15/2020 10:41 AM] aceat64
That's not rebellion, that's being an asshole

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[7/15/2020 10:42 AM] draco_the_drake
Mark was literally handing out buttons at the time ... I still have one


[7/15/2020 10:43 AM] toenolla
Yeah...I do wish Mark didn't think of the space as a startup. Our goal isn't to make money, or even to produce anything. It's a weird analogy.

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[7/15/2020 10:43 AM] aceat64
Mark also said at the meeting that he had talked to Max and been forgiven, which wasn't true either.


[7/15/2020 10:43 AM] nullinterface
the post fact age.  what a time to be alive.

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[7/15/2020 10:43 AM] aceat64
It's great that they have made up, but that doesn't mean his actions in the past are suddenly ok.

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[7/15/2020 10:44 AM] toenolla
I do believe there's a photo of a Mark button on Max's costume.


[7/15/2020 10:44 AM] merissa4308
Anyone who can condone that kind of behavior says all I need to know about their character

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[7/15/2020 10:45 AM] draco_the_drake
I have no doubt that it got on Max's uniform .. but as I said .. Mark was literally handing out buttons to all


[7/15/2020 10:45 AM] aceat64
And making up today, doesn't change history


[7/15/2020 10:45 AM] aceat64
Draco, so you were there?


[7/15/2020 10:45 AM] aceat64
I forget when you joined DMS


[7/15/2020 10:45 AM] draco_the_drake
I was around .. yes ... I have one of the buttons


[7/15/2020 10:46 AM] toenolla
Are you saying that someone else was putting the buttons up on objects in the space? Because that seems unlikely.


[7/15/2020 10:46 AM] draco_the_drake
I don't think it was unlikely at all


[7/15/2020 10:46 AM] toenolla
Generally when you give someone a button, it's so they can wear it.


[7/15/2020 10:47 AM] draco_the_drake
But this is old shit being dredged up ....


[7/15/2020 10:47 AM] aceat64
Let's presume Mark didn't put the button on Max's costume. Why make the quilt calling him a baby?


[7/15/2020 10:47 AM] draco_the_drake
Andrew loves to do that to discredit


[7/15/2020 10:47 AM] Deleted User
So is this a really old photo, or did he steal some kid's identity?

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[7/15/2020 10:47 AM] draco_the_drake
LOL


[7/15/2020 10:48 AM] nullinterface
there's a predictable bias in how we're to give some benefit of the doubt while intensely questioning the motives of others


[7/15/2020 10:48 AM] toenolla
Where's that from?


[7/15/2020 10:48 AM] Deleted User
http://ranger.uta.edu/~iahmad/gaann.html


[7/15/2020 10:48 AM] nullinterface
I also found that photo on UTA's website - looks like it's going on 20 years old


[7/15/2020 10:49 AM] Deleted User
Just wondering what the status of his phd research is.


[7/15/2020 10:49 AM] Deleted User
I'd hope they frown on plagiarism


[7/15/2020 10:49 AM] nullinterface
this supposed open-mindedness kind of fails instantly, thus I have little choice but to dismiss it out of hand


[7/15/2020 10:56 AM] quattroquattro
Fuck, that picture sort of looks like me... Now I need to go saw my face off

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[7/15/2020 10:56 AM] aceat64
Just dye your hair, join me in being a rebel


[7/15/2020 10:59 AM] quattroquattro
I have been considering a mohawk, maybe I should dye it too 😉


[7/15/2020 10:59 AM] ferricyanide7475
Ah, so i wasn't the only confused person for a minute.


[7/15/2020 11:03 AM] mell.jpg
> But this is old shit being dredged up ....
@Draco 
But there's a reason. It shows a pattern of continually hurting our members, hurting our space, and (I think you'll like this one) hurting our community. Mark hasn't changed. And these are the expectations people should have if they elect him as one of our leaders. Bullying, threats, intimidation.

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[7/15/2020 11:05 AM] aceat64
💯


[7/15/2020 11:05 AM] aceat64
you don't build community by being an asshole to "test the system"

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[7/15/2020 11:06 AM] toenolla
I've been dealing with Mark's "experiments" for ten years. I'm exhausted.

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[7/15/2020 11:07 AM] aceat64
stuff like that is why I didn't run for a 6th term


[7/15/2020 11:08 AM] aceat64
I wanted to just get back to making stuff, instead of dealing with jerks so that other people would have a place to make stuff


[7/15/2020 11:08 AM] aceat64
I only reluctantly got back into the political crap when I was asked to check the finances


[7/15/2020 11:09 AM] aceat64
it's _draining_ dealing with this stuff, it makes it so much harder to build up the community and organization


[7/15/2020 11:09 AM] toenolla
I know that I *definitely* don't have a place in the kind of community Mark wants to build.

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[7/15/2020 11:10 AM] aceat64
he made that clear in the early days, thankfully he was never on the board


[7/15/2020 11:10 AM] aceat64
my biggest regret with DMS was tolerating low level abuse for so long, in the interest of "just getting along"


[7/15/2020 11:11 AM] aceat64
I'm sorry Haley


[7/15/2020 11:12 AM] mell.jpg
Yeah. Burnout is real but I think would've been manageable for many of our leaders if they didn't have to deal with this kind of bullshit.

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[7/15/2020 11:14 AM] toenolla
I don't think you can get rid of angry people. Sometimes people have a bad day, fuck... Everyone is having a bad year right now.


[7/15/2020 11:15 AM] toenolla
But that doesn't mean we have to allow everything


[7/15/2020 11:17 AM] quattroquattro
Exactly, a person who does nothing but instigate and troll isn't worthy of a membership to the space. People like that contribute nothing and drive away people that want to contribute

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[7/15/2020 11:20 AM] yashsedai
^^this


[7/15/2020 11:21 AM] toenolla
I try my best not to think of things like harassment in terms of people, but in terms of behavior. People can change.


[7/15/2020 11:23 AM] toenolla
I've seen people change because DMS is a social skills gauntlet. Moreso the more involved you want to be.


[7/15/2020 11:26 AM] quattroquattro
It seems like a decade is enough time for someone to change, if they are the same today as they were then it's time to stop giving them another chance


[7/15/2020 11:26 AM] toenolla
But Mark's been here long enough to get the hang of things.


[7/15/2020 11:27 AM] nullinterface
another pattern I see at DMS all the time is defending bad behavior


[7/15/2020 11:28 AM] draco_the_drake
I see that in the SoI threads


[7/15/2020 11:29 AM] nullinterface
we don't need - not should we want - to be *workplace strict*, but we'd sure like to be better than the level of behavior you expect from randoms at the megalomart, a public park, etc


[7/15/2020 11:29 AM] draco_the_drake
* Asking repetitive questions and not respecting answers
* Dogpiling (as in many people jumping in and onto the wound, amplifying the negative criticism)
* Being adversarial rather than showing decorum as in previous elections


[7/15/2020 11:31 AM] nullinterface
> Asking repetitive questions and not respecting answers
to be expected when there are responses rather than answers
> Dogpiling (as in many people jumping in and onto the wound, amplifying the negative criticism)
see above
> Being adversarial rather than showing decorum as in previous elections
🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣


[7/15/2020 11:31 AM] draco_the_drake
^^^^ this is another example


[7/15/2020 11:31 AM] toenolla
Draco if you think our elections have ever had decorum....oh boy


[7/15/2020 11:32 AM] draco_the_drake
Go back and look at the Ask a Candiate threads in the years before


[7/15/2020 11:32 AM] nullinterface
and you're part of the pattern of behavior I mentioned earlier

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[7/15/2020 11:32 AM] draco_the_drake
you didn't see this kind of thing .. because it wasn't allowed by the moderators


[7/15/2020 11:32 AM] toenolla
DMS elections are a circus.  They always have been.

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[7/15/2020 11:32 AM] draco_the_drake
Not anywhere like this one


[7/15/2020 11:33 AM] nullinterface
but worry not!  my DMS political career is ending on Friday.


[7/15/2020 11:33 AM] draco_the_drake
Erik for Board! 2021


[7/15/2020 11:33 AM] nullinterface
I hope the subsequent Board - whomever they are - well


[7/15/2020 11:35 AM] toenolla
I will slot this one is a doozy. Never seen people make YouTube campaign videos before.


[7/15/2020 11:35 AM] toenolla
*Admit


[7/15/2020 11:36 AM] nullinterface
the DMS *business model* has not adapted to its scale, and this will forever be a problem

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[7/15/2020 11:36 AM] nullinterface
it requires an unreasonable amount of volunteer labor to keep the organization operational and solvent


[7/15/2020 11:37 AM] draco_the_drake
I'm not certain we had a solid business model .. we have a fly by the seat of our pants model


[7/15/2020 11:37 AM] draco_the_drake
We might need to work on that .. I agree


[7/15/2020 11:37 AM] nullinterface
the sorts of things that most organizations would treat as settled policy *aren't* at DMS


[7/15/2020 11:38 AM] draco_the_drake
DMS is not a normal corporation... and trying to apply normal business models .. leads to distrust


[7/15/2020 11:40 AM] toenolla
I don't think anyone is proposing we go fully corporate, with a workplace culture.


[7/15/2020 11:40 AM] draco_the_drake
Cubicles .. for safety! lol


[7/15/2020 11:41 AM] nullinterface
at some point the distrust of a handful of noisy members is irrelevant


[7/15/2020 11:41 AM] draco_the_drake
I think we have two handfuls of members annoying each other for years


[7/15/2020 11:42 AM] aceat64
Draco you seem to conviently forget how Kris railed against Alex, Robert and others talking about how she was going to bring DMS "out of high school"

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[7/15/2020 11:42 AM] draco_the_drake
It just has reached such an extreme ... we need to figure out how to get along and calm this down


[7/15/2020 11:42 AM] nullinterface
still relevant
https://hackaday.com/2018/04/18/when-hackerspace-directors-burn-out/

{Embed}
Jenny List
https://hackaday.com/2018/04/18/when-hackerspace-directors-burn-out/
When Hackerspace Directors Burn Out
A friend of mine once suggested that there should be a support group for burned-out former hackerspace directors. We could have our own Village of the Damned at summer camps, where we’d sit m…
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/Wux5ORwzG55sbY5I89ST0F7h5mioSHlJqE2yGxEBuD4/https/hackaday.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/burnout.jpg


[7/15/2020 11:44 AM] nullinterface
the bylaws, earlier versions of the standing rules, and the lore - *gods, the lore* - all have their roots in small-group dynamics where informal consensus is a simple powerful effective thing


[7/15/2020 11:45 AM] nullinterface
but them days are gone - were gone when I joined in 2015 - and now that the number of *true regulars* exceeds Dunbar's number it's time to admit that they're broken and we need to adopt large-organization methods


[7/15/2020 11:45 AM] draco_the_drake
I think committees can be shaped to bring a new level to the consensus model ....we have alot of work to do on committees however ..


[7/15/2020 11:45 AM] draco_the_drake
to make that reality


[7/15/2020 11:46 AM] nullinterface
if that's too much to bear, then maybe it's time to pack it in


[7/15/2020 11:46 AM] aceat64
Draco, perhaps try working with a committee to be an example?


[7/15/2020 11:47 AM] draco_the_drake
I have worked with many committees


[7/15/2020 11:47 AM] nullinterface
dude, the *direct-democracy pluralism* you keep circling around reached its limits before I joined; it kept staggering on because of the inertia of Ladybird and prior members, but it's now apparent that the dynamic can't keep its corpse in motion


[7/15/2020 11:48 AM] draco_the_drake
I'm not for direct democracy ... everyone vote on everything .. this is one issue I hope to bring out as a problem with committees


[7/15/2020 11:48 AM] aceat64
excellent @Draco, so you have some directly actionable ideas then?


[7/15/2020 11:49 AM] draco_the_drake
I do


[7/15/2020 11:49 AM] aceat64
perhaps a committee structure that's working and can be used as an example?


[7/15/2020 11:50 AM] kenpurcell
@Draco Please create a framework for committees where an active chair has the flexibility they want WHILE keeping crooks & liars from tanking the committee and the space.

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[7/15/2020 11:50 AM] draco_the_drake
^^^ yes


[7/15/2020 11:50 AM] aceat64
> I think committees can be shaped to bring a new level to the consensus model ....we have alot of work to do on committees however ..
@Draco this is vague, has no actionable information, it's just "things aren't working" which is fine to say, but you should follow up with specifics on how they should change


[7/15/2020 11:50 AM] aceat64
the best thing is to have a solid game plan, write it out


[7/15/2020 11:50 AM] aceat64
get buy in


[7/15/2020 11:50 AM] aceat64
deliver


[7/15/2020 11:52 AM] aceat64
this is a bit meta, but notice how I'm not just telling you "stop doing this" or "this isn't helpful", I'm giving  you direct, actionable information


[7/15/2020 11:52 AM] kenpurcell
@Draco, I was asking you for ideas. 'Cause you have some magic sauce we do not know about. Was it Tequila Night, Table Dancing or Theft they kept the community functioning?

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[7/15/2020 11:52 AM] draco_the_drake
Hahaha ... Lampy


[7/15/2020 11:53 AM] draco_the_drake
I do get ya'lls point .. and I will formalize some ideas that I have so that we might move forward to getting buy in


[7/15/2020 11:53 AM] nullinterface
One of the main reasons I don't give you much credit, Draco, is because you're an *anti-solution* guy


[7/15/2020 11:53 AM] draco_the_drake
and see what works best


[7/15/2020 11:53 AM] aceat64
from the start of DMS, they way we handle stuff is "don't bring problems, bring solutions"


[7/15/2020 11:54 AM] draco_the_drake
I love that, Andrew


[7/15/2020 11:54 AM] aceat64
that's not saying "don't complain about something being wrong/broken", that's saying follow up with a way to fix it


[7/15/2020 11:54 AM] draco_the_drake
Perfect idea


[7/15/2020 11:54 AM] draco_the_drake
I think I shall .... look forward to putting an action idea in writing


[7/15/2020 11:54 AM] draco_the_drake
several I have


[7/15/2020 11:59 AM] yashsedai
produced you have not


[7/15/2020 12:13 PM] draco_the_drake
Working on it, ATM


[7/15/2020 2:47 PM] axeonos
I sent off my proxy vote via mail Monday. It should have arrived by now


[7/15/2020 2:48 PM] themitch22
I did the docusign online how do I know its counted?


[7/15/2020 2:50 PM] axeonos
@ESmith or whoever is on voting committee?


[7/15/2020 2:51 PM] skyspook
You should have receiced a receipt email @themitch22 that means it was received and stored in DocuSign


[7/15/2020 2:51 PM] themitch22
Ok


[7/15/2020 2:51 PM] skyspook
I imagine he'll pull out of DS after the deadline


[7/15/2020 2:52 PM] skyspook
Not sure how they're handling physical


[7/15/2020 2:53 PM] themitch22
I still get Verizon corporate voting because of my 401k benefits, I've never voted once.


[7/15/2020 2:54 PM] themitch22
Most board elections like this?


[7/15/2020 2:54 PM] skyspook
Most I've been involved with are heavily proxied


[7/15/2020 2:54 PM] themitch22
I guess if you're a shareholder right?


[7/15/2020 2:54 PM] skyspook
Yep, very similar processes


[7/15/2020 2:55 PM] skyspook
At work we just did the exact same thing for our board through DocuSign (and DS only)


[7/15/2020 3:02 PM] quattroquattro
I would imagine that most board elections are digital, but are still unlike ours because they don't have a contingent of people intent on disrupting the process.


[7/15/2020 3:02 PM] nullinterface
> @ESmith or whoever is on voting committee?
@Axeonos 
A number of members whom have all opted to contact me via as many unique ways as possible, making a count difficult


[7/15/2020 3:03 PM] quattroquattro
At least with an activist investor the investor has to come up with a ton of cash to be an activist in the first place 😉


[7/15/2020 3:03 PM] nullinterface
this is depressingly going to be a very paper-centric process


[7/15/2020 3:04 PM] quattroquattro
> @Axeonos 
> A number of members whom have all opted to contact me via as many unique ways as possible, making a count difficult
@ESmith so you got my carrier pigeon then?


[7/15/2020 3:04 PM] nullinterface
where the e-proxy count stands *(and yes we're going to print every one of those)*

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[7/15/2020 3:04 PM] nullinterface
@quattroquattro that depends on how ambitious Beth's cats are

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[7/15/2020 3:09 PM] michaelb5250
At this rate we might make the 1/3 number by electronic ballots alone.


[7/15/2020 3:09 PM] nullinterface
I expect we will


[7/15/2020 3:09 PM] nullinterface
2/3 ... depends on how steep the ***tail*** is near the cutoff


[7/15/2020 3:10 PM] michaelb5250
I would be amazed to hit 2/3 before counting the mail in ballots


[7/15/2020 3:11 PM] michaelb5250
I'll be merely surprised to hit 2/3 with all forms included.

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[7/15/2020 3:12 PM] nullinterface
I hope that we're looking at the usual tendency to wait until the last minute as opposed to voter apathy.  I also hope that the clearly-communicated electronic proxy further erodes apathy.


[7/15/2020 3:13 PM] michaelb5250
Well in that respect 159 is the number to beat. Not sure what percentage that was at the time.


[7/15/2020 3:14 PM] nullinterface
I did those meeting minutes since literally noone else could be arsed


[7/15/2020 3:18 PM] nullinterface
to the next person that administers an online DMS election - *find a better way than I did*


[7/15/2020 3:23 PM] draco_the_drake
I wrote in Erik Smith, Ken Purcell, Stan Simmons, Kris Anderson and Art Bell


[7/15/2020 3:23 PM] draco_the_drake
j/k


[7/15/2020 3:48 PM] judykriehn3727
And to answer Axeies comment/question, ballots received are going into the locked mailbox by the copier/server room. When it’s time to pull ballots out, it will be managed same as collecting $$ from the tombstones. Opened with a witness present.

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[7/15/2020 4:00 PM] canibalcrab
I really wish there was a way to resolve the voters who don't vote at all


[7/15/2020 4:00 PM] canibalcrab
That's why we were going to try resetting voting rights


[7/15/2020 4:36 PM] nullinterface
An election that goes on for a month?  Posted as a condition for logging into Talk, or accessing the building?  Dunno.


[7/15/2020 4:36 PM] aceat64
could do a liveness check 6 months out


[7/15/2020 4:36 PM] aceat64
technically speaking, the bylaws allow the standing rules to determine how one moves between supporting and regular classes


[7/15/2020 4:36 PM] nullinterface
*knows the realities of Draco's ballot, but is keeping the actual content confidential until the election*


[7/15/2020 4:37 PM] aceat64
so have a process written into the rules to clear up the voter roles at a set time or something


[7/15/2020 4:38 PM] nullinterface
Or have them expire after a set period, such as 12 months


[7/15/2020 4:38 PM] aceat64
harder to handle without automation though


[7/15/2020 4:40 PM] nullinterface
Aye


[7/15/2020 4:40 PM] quattroquattro
How about just expiring rights for anyone that doesn't vote in the election. Make it use it or lose it, if they want it back they have to request it again


[7/15/2020 4:40 PM] aceat64
Dec 1: send notification to all members that if they don't renew their voting rights, they will expire Jan 1


[7/15/2020 4:41 PM] aceat64
yeah, use it or lose it could also work


[7/15/2020 4:41 PM] aceat64
it's trivial to request them back


[7/15/2020 4:41 PM] aceat64
and has the least amount of overhead


[7/15/2020 4:41 PM] aceat64
because we simply look at the list of who voted and clear everyone but them from the AD group


[7/15/2020 4:44 PM] canibalcrab
I was thinking something like "use it or lose it"  would require a "choose not to vote, but keep rights" option for the ballot


[7/15/2020 4:47 PM] ferricyanide7475
159 for 1/3 or 2/3?


[7/15/2020 4:48 PM] michaelb5250
Lol nvm...


[7/15/2020 4:48 PM] aceat64
could just have an "abstain" option on the ballot

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[7/15/2020 4:48 PM] aceat64
1/3 for general quorum, 2/3 for bylaws changes


[7/15/2020 4:49 PM] nullinterface
159 was last year's number


[7/15/2020 4:49 PM] nullinterface
Current number is on the agenda on wiki


[7/15/2020 4:49 PM] nullinterface
188 or something


[7/15/2020 4:59 PM] nullinterface
Abstention is voting against insofar as the bylaws amendments go


[7/15/2020 5:03 PM] canibalcrab
Right. It just shows participation


[7/15/2020 5:21 PM] draco_the_drake
I want to vote against one ... But I like sex ,,, wait ,,


[7/15/2020 6:47 PM] jebbabushka
:wtfcat:


[7/15/2020 6:55 PM] draco_the_drake
Abstinence


[7/15/2020 7:10 PM] axeonos
I dont get it


[7/15/2020 7:52 PM] draco_the_drake
"Abstention is voting against insofar as the bylaws amendments go"


[7/15/2020 7:53 PM] draco_the_drake
never mind lol


[7/15/2020 7:58 PM] slinkygn
Expiring voting rights was tried in 2016, right?


[7/15/2020 7:58 PM] slinkygn
...or 2017. I'm gonna have to look that up; can't recall.


[7/15/2020 7:59 PM] slinkygn
Rights expired after each election, and you had to resubmit your request to receive voting rights.


[7/15/2020 7:59 PM] slinkygn
(and by "each" I mean "that one" -- that at most lasted one more election, and then it went away by some mechanism unknown to me) 🙂


[7/15/2020 8:00 PM] slinkygn
not sure it even lasted the one more, tbh -- had decided by then to step out of those matters for a bit


[7/15/2020 8:02 PM] slinkygn
also: could someone point me to where it says an abstention is a "no" for purposes of bylaws amendments? That's a change from previously, so I have some reading to do


[7/15/2020 8:07 PM] slinkygn
on the broader topic of abstentions, I'd kinda they remain what they traditionally are -- abstaining from voting, the purpose of which is kinda defeated by having to participate in the vote to check the "abstain" box. I think a well-implemented expiration policy solves the problem well enough.  The act and subsequent measure of non-participation in a vote is a meaningful thing.  There are many other ways to solve the problem of inactivity than going there.


[7/15/2020 8:10 PM] slinkygn
(looking at my email, it looks like voting rights were definitely expired and re-signed up for after the 2017 election, possibly 2016 as well but still not sure about that.)


[7/15/2020 8:20 PM] draco_the_drake
The problem with voting rights resetting for all is very simple .. Board Members have to be in Good Standing to be board members.    In order to be in Good Standing, you have to be a Regular Member  And all members in good standing have to have the same rights, privileges, restrictions and conditions.  All Board Members have to have Voting Rights or No one has them.


[7/15/2020 8:21 PM] draco_the_drake
The way we currently judge who is a Regular Member is by Voting Rights


[7/15/2020 8:25 PM] draco_the_drake
There is some pedantry for ya to mull over.  😛


[7/15/2020 8:28 PM] draco_the_drake
Okay maybe it isn't that simple


[7/15/2020 8:28 PM] draco_the_drake
But there ya are


[7/15/2020 8:31 PM] draco_the_drake
You could I suppose reset all the members voting rights except Board Members and Officers.   But this is making everyone else Supporting Members.


[7/15/2020 8:41 PM] nullinterface
Plenty of wiggle room to argue voting rights are distinct from being in good standing 
> Members in good standing shall be entitled to one vote in all elections and special voting events as determined by the Board of Directors.


[7/15/2020 8:43 PM] draco_the_drake
So by that Good Standing seems to imply Voting Rights


[7/15/2020 8:44 PM] nullinterface
It's a bad sentence


[7/15/2020 8:44 PM] draco_the_drake
Rephrase that to encompass much of the ByLaws


[7/15/2020 8:45 PM] nullinterface
But one could argue that 
*as determined by the Board of Directors.*
applied to the entirety of the sentence


[7/15/2020 8:45 PM] nullinterface
Bylaws are rife with these problems for sure


[7/15/2020 8:46 PM] draco_the_drake
So

(Members in good standing shall be entitled to one vote in all elections and special voting events) (as determined by the Board of Directors.)

vs

(Members in good standing shall be entitled to one vote in)  (all elections and special voting events as determined by the Board of Directors.)

vs

(Members in good standing shall be entitled to one vote in all elections and ) (special voting events as determined by the Board of Directors.)


[7/15/2020 8:47 PM] nullinterface
However, this shall soon not be my problem


[7/15/2020 8:47 PM] draco_the_drake
hahaha .. *nods* true


[7/15/2020 8:49 PM] draco_the_drake
Time to fire up the old Bylaw Discussion Group again .. 😛  *facepalm*


[7/15/2020 8:50 PM] nullinterface
That possiblity exists


[7/15/2020 8:50 PM] draco_the_drake
I really wish we could just replace them in whole


[7/15/2020 8:50 PM] draco_the_drake
with some standard boilerplate


[7/15/2020 8:50 PM] draco_the_drake
and modifications


[7/15/2020 8:51 PM] draco_the_drake
as far as the Official Bylaws Group ... only you would know ... I'm not talking about *that* group
But just a discussion group


[7/15/2020 8:51 PM] draco_the_drake
interst group


[7/15/2020 8:51 PM] draco_the_drake
but right now .. too many things on my plate


[7/15/2020 8:51 PM] draco_the_drake
and Freddy wouldn't approve


[7/15/2020 8:55 PM] axeonos
Okay ill bite... whats your obsession with Freddy? He has literally not been in this conversation... this borders on stalking my dude... its not healthy. Do you need an intervention?

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[7/15/2020 8:56 PM] draco_the_drake
We were cool and worked fairly well together for some time in Infra .. I even voted him Chair ...  I liked him


[7/15/2020 8:56 PM] axeonos
Its okay to ask for help


[7/15/2020 8:57 PM] draco_the_drake
Then he became a thorn in my side ... and i would like to see us get on better again


[7/15/2020 8:57 PM] draco_the_drake
I was hoping that he would join the convo


[7/15/2020 8:59 PM] axeonos
I think it may be best to stay away from each other. You know what they say... absence makes the heart grow fonder.... but seriously consider a rest bro.... this shit ain't healthy... boarder line stalking


[7/15/2020 9:00 PM] draco_the_drake
Wait .. mentioning him is boarder line stalking ... when was the last time I brought him up .. I think you are exaggerating


[7/15/2020 9:00 PM] axeonos
From another point of view this shit is every God damn day.... please stop. Get some help


[7/15/2020 9:01 PM] axeonos
Draco I'm serious


[7/15/2020 9:01 PM] draco_the_drake
I am to ... please point to successive instances .. because right now I think you are seeing things that are not there


[7/15/2020 9:02 PM] axeonos
Scroll up. Every god damn day. All of talk or discord...


[7/15/2020 9:03 PM] draco_the_drake
I did a search .. most of the time I mention the word Freddy .. I am talking to him


[7/15/2020 9:03 PM] draco_the_drake
It is because I talk to him that I mention him


[7/15/2020 9:04 PM] draco_the_drake
most of the time HE chimes in on my convo to call me a troll or pedent


[7/15/2020 9:04 PM] draco_the_drake
Go scroll back youself


[7/15/2020 9:22 PM] axeonos
Did and from an outsider point of view nothing changes of my original statement


[7/15/2020 9:31 PM] nullinterface
Yes the bylaws should be replaced with something more consistent, ideally something that a similar nonprofit uses.  I not-so-humbly think that proposals 2, 3, and 5 on the ballot are useful changes that will benefit the organization.  proposal 1 is all Andrew and I agree with the idea from a risk-management perspective, however I do not feel as strongly about it as the others.  proposal 4 is actually there because our attorney suggested that we include such a provision explicitly in the bylaws.


[7/15/2020 9:32 PM] draco_the_drake
1 and 4 are the main ones I disagree with


[7/15/2020 9:32 PM] nullinterface
a general theme of the complaints I hear about the bylaws is their lack of specificity, which I feel is misplaced - bylaws draw hard lines which are defined by processes that sit atop them such as rules and procedures.


[7/15/2020 9:33 PM] draco_the_drake
I'm not certain why you decided to limit the topics of the member meetings as we have a rule that allows for voting by the membership to decide


[7/15/2020 9:33 PM] nullinterface
that die has largely been cast, however - regardless of how the votes breakdown I fear we're not going to make 2/3 quorum


[7/15/2020 9:34 PM] nullinterface
I condensed them into things that the bylaws already spell out


[7/15/2020 9:34 PM] nullinterface
while adding something that I think we all want - *even the appointed board members* - election of board members in the event of a vacancy


[7/15/2020 9:35 PM] draco_the_drake
Yeah i saw that


[7/15/2020 9:36 PM] nullinterface
member meetings do not have standing rules making power - any such power would be subordinate to the power of the Board - this is spelled out in the bylaws themselves and even more fundamentally in the certificate of formation


[7/15/2020 9:36 PM] draco_the_drake
It is very minor rule but it is in there "Personal property may be stored elsewhere with the approval of a member of the Board or by a vote of the membership."


[7/15/2020 9:37 PM] nullinterface
the Board could incorporate an informal power into something that's similar to a member meeting such as I proposed for quasi SRC3 but it would essentially have to go through the Board


[7/15/2020 9:38 PM] nullinterface
a very strange thing to be in there and I should have removed it


[7/15/2020 9:38 PM] nullinterface
ah well


[7/15/2020 9:38 PM] yashsedai


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[7/15/2020 9:39 PM] draco_the_drake
ooooo Freddy .. the Fredmister .. Fredinator .. good to see ya man .. wondering when you would show up


[7/15/2020 9:39 PM] draco_the_drake
I wanted to talk to you about doing a 10x10 together for the new 10x10 project to help bring people together


[7/15/2020 9:40 PM] axeonos
Like an Asian soap drama....


[7/15/2020 9:40 PM] draco_the_drake
LOL


[7/15/2020 9:40 PM] yashsedai
I think if you heard what my idea for a 10x10 with you would be, you would be interested


[7/15/2020 9:40 PM] draco_the_drake
No what is it?


[7/15/2020 9:40 PM] yashsedai
lol nah


[7/15/2020 9:40 PM] yashsedai
i'm good


[7/15/2020 9:41 PM] draco_the_drake
ok no worries


[7/15/2020 9:43 PM] draco_the_drake
@ESmith  ... I would like to see more involvement ... I envision twice a year having an online proxy vote through some sort of service ... emails would go out .. none of this snail mail rubbish .. and people could vote on various things that people have proposed.   The Board would have to put weight to the vote.


[7/15/2020 9:43 PM] draco_the_drake
But I think it might engage people


[7/15/2020 9:44 PM] axeonos


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[7/15/2020 9:45 PM] nullinterface
something for the next Board, Secretary, whatnot to consider


[7/15/2020 9:45 PM] draco_the_drake
Yup ... although the mailouts this year were FAR from rubbish .. they were AWESOME


[7/15/2020 9:46 PM] draco_the_drake
but I hope in the future unneeded


[7/15/2020 9:47 PM] nullinterface
I didn't get it in writing, but the attorney did indicate that we don't have to physically mail members notices


[7/15/2020 9:48 PM] draco_the_drake
This is the kind of thing that we need put on the wiki and linked from a legal page or something


[7/15/2020 9:48 PM] draco_the_drake
signed sealed


[7/15/2020 9:48 PM] draco_the_drake
or what have you


[7/15/2020 9:48 PM] nullinterface
Aye, a memo would have been ideal


[7/15/2020 9:49 PM] nullinterface
someone might yet be able to ask them for that memo they promised


[7/15/2020 9:49 PM] draco_the_drake
Okay .. I will ask about it at some point


[7/15/2020 9:50 PM] draco_the_drake
Would be interested in helping the next secretary get up to speed? or do you just want out?


[7/15/2020 9:51 PM] nullinterface
Can't give a solid answer at this point in time


[7/15/2020 9:51 PM] draco_the_drake
k


[7/15/2020 9:54 PM] nullinterface
95 e-proxies returned


[7/15/2020 9:56 PM] draco_the_drake
woot .. we made the election ...


[7/15/2020 9:56 PM] draco_the_drake
At least we know we will have *someone* on the board


[7/15/2020 9:59 PM] nullinterface
~20 mailed ballots in the box, probably about as many enroute


[7/15/2020 10:00 PM] nullinterface
however the bump from the last reminder email may be as good as it's going to get


[7/15/2020 10:15 PM] draco_the_drake
It has always been a challenge to get 2/3rds


[7/15/2020 10:16 PM] nullinterface
yup


[7/15/2020 10:16 PM] nullinterface
next Board may have to get creative


[7/15/2020 10:19 PM] draco_the_drake
Can we vote to get rid of Covid-19?  I mean it is 20 now ... not 19 ... seriously needs to go away


[7/15/2020 11:15 PM] toenolla
Now that's a ticket I think we can all get behind

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[7/16/2020 5:39 AM] slinkygn
wait -- so we're calculating attendance for quorum by ballots returned?


[7/16/2020 6:10 AM] canibalcrab
There's no in person meeting due to covid


[7/16/2020 11:28 AM] noble_goblin
Lowkey just sent in my vote (it said the 16th!) because I super forgot about it.


[7/16/2020 11:28 AM] noble_goblin
Maybe post a final reminder on talk/in the FB forums that today is the cutoff?


[7/16/2020 11:29 AM] draco_the_drake
I think it is midnight tonight


[7/16/2020 11:29 AM] draco_the_drake
votes should be counted 7pm tomorrow


[7/16/2020 11:30 AM] draco_the_drake
rumor has it that it will be televised


[7/16/2020 11:30 AM] draco_the_drake
And then the riots


[7/16/2020 11:49 AM] andrew5152
> Maybe post a final reminder on talk/in the FB forums that today is the cutoff?
https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/2020-election-a-final-appeal-from-the-secretary/73040


[7/16/2020 11:50 AM] andrew5152
don't really do the freindface thing, so no idea if it made it there or not...


[7/16/2020 12:07 PM] stephenie.
> And then the riots
@Draco that's an awful thing to say.  If you're tempted to reply with one of your "yeah, but"-s, don't.  Just don't.  Papering over it with "but it was a joke" is just blaming others for your bad choice.

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[7/16/2020 12:08 PM] draco_the_drake
Naw .. it just seems everyone needs to calm


[7/16/2020 12:08 PM] stephenie.
And there's the "yeah, but"


[7/16/2020 12:09 PM] draco_the_drake
Whatever happens we will find a way to get along


[7/16/2020 12:09 PM] draco_the_drake
No but .. we will succeed


[7/16/2020 12:09 PM] stephenie.
More yeah buts


[7/16/2020 12:10 PM] draco_the_drake
even you ... I hope


[7/16/2020 12:11 PM] michaelb5250
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Schrodingers%20asshole I believe that's what you're looking for.

{Embed}
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Schrodingers%20asshole
Urban Dictionary: Schrodingers asshole
A person who decides whether or not they're full of shit by the reactions of those around them.


[7/16/2020 12:11 PM] stephenie.
More yeah buts


[7/16/2020 12:12 PM] draco_the_drake
Well I cannot help that you will not be satisfied and are judging my statement in a bad light


[7/16/2020 12:13 PM] draco_the_drake
but I can only try and help calm things down .. and bring people together or try


[7/16/2020 12:13 PM] draco_the_drake
because I feel both groups have positive things to offer


[7/16/2020 12:14 PM] stephenie.
"and then the riots"
Draco thinks his statement should be judged in a positive light and thinks it will help calm things down and bring people together.


[7/16/2020 12:15 PM] yashsedai
@michaelb :trollface:


[7/16/2020 12:15 PM] draco_the_drake
If Art had said that .. you wouldn't be giving him any hell over it .. he says things like this all the time


[7/16/2020 12:15 PM] draco_the_drake
It is just me you are judging harshly


[7/16/2020 12:16 PM] stephenie.
Art isn't in this room.
Art didn't say this here.
Draco thinks he can't be held accountable because "other people do it too"


[7/16/2020 12:16 PM] draco_the_drake
but I'm not going to fight with you over this .. some people want to be offended .. even if it wasn't meant as such


[7/16/2020 12:16 PM] stephenie.
And there's the yeah but


[7/16/2020 12:17 PM] stephenie.
Draco's self defense of choice


[7/16/2020 12:17 PM] draco_the_drake
*shakes head* ... heh


[7/16/2020 12:18 PM] stephenie.
> some people want to be offended .. even if it wasn't meant as such
@Draco aka "the you can't take a joke" self-defense


[7/16/2020 12:19 PM] stephenie.
Called it. There it is.


[7/16/2020 12:19 PM] stephenie.
For those playing at home with their Draco Bingo cards.

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[7/16/2020 12:19 PM] draco_the_drake
Do you want a cookie?


[7/16/2020 12:20 PM] aceat64
I don't get it, why are riots funny?


[7/16/2020 12:20 PM] ferricyanide7475
!ballots


[7/16/2020 12:20 PM] dallas-makerspace#4763
ERROR: @ferricyanide, invalid command. Maybe try `!about`.


[7/16/2020 12:21 PM] draco_the_drake
Riots are not funny .. being real riots .. but i don't think literal riots will happen .. but either side gets an upset.. or a slam dunk as far as who is picked .. it can be upsetting and feel like that


[7/16/2020 12:21 PM] stephenie.
> Do you want a cookie?
@Draco "deflection move"


[7/16/2020 12:23 PM] kenpurcell
I can tell you, your not going to win the argument. It was a poor choice of words. Like: "You're ugly, right? Just kidding!"


[7/16/2020 12:23 PM] draco_the_drake
Meh .. I really don't care to argue about it ... or riot either


[7/16/2020 12:23 PM] aceat64
Draco, what are your plans if none of the blue tape people get on the board?


[7/16/2020 12:23 PM] draco_the_drake
so have a nice day


[7/16/2020 12:23 PM] draco_the_drake
peace


[7/16/2020 12:24 PM] yashsedai
*trots off angrily*


[7/16/2020 12:24 PM] stephenie.
> Riots are not funny .. being real riots .. but i don't think literal riots will happen .. but either call side gets an upset.. or a slam dunk as far as who is picked .. it can be upsetting and feel like that
@Draco now makes excuses for his poor choices without apologizing


[7/16/2020 12:25 PM] aceat64
a normal response to what @stephenie is talking about would be "I'm sorry, it was in poor taste" etc


[7/16/2020 12:25 PM] draco_the_drake
I am curious to see how long ya'll will talk about this boring subject ... I think I'm going to sit quietly now .. have fun


[7/16/2020 12:25 PM] yashsedai
@aceat64 lol now now, you know normal isn't what he does


[7/16/2020 12:25 PM] yashsedai
he only does pedant


[7/16/2020 12:28 PM] stephenie.
> I am curious to see how long ya'll will talk about this boring subject ... I think I'm going to sit quietly now .. have fun
And that folks is the "cookie".  You are free to enjoy this Draco-free channel.


[7/16/2020 12:28 PM] yashsedai
*claps*


[7/16/2020 12:29 PM] draco_the_drake
Naw .. quietly about that subject ...


[7/16/2020 12:30 PM] stephenie.
And there's the yeah but.  
Who's got Bingo?

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[7/16/2020 12:30 PM] draco_the_drake
I got some clay and a box and some sharp steel


[7/16/2020 12:33 PM] draco_the_drake
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lXbpgU9OWk

{Embed}
Netflix Is A Joke
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lXbpgU9OWk
How Hannah Gadsby's High-Functioning Autism Works | Netflix Is A Joke
Her teacher was not happy about her use of prepositions.

Watch Hanna Gadsby: Douglas, only on Netflix. 
https://www.netflix.com/title/81054700

SUBSCRIBE: https://bit.ly/2Kncxw6

About Netflix Is A Joke:
The official hub of Netflix stand-up, comedy series, films, and all thin...
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/MS88vJ1sW7BUFk5B8H1MXiNR4YPcP-bpt3CHMfJ_Gq4/https/i.ytimg.com/vi/5lXbpgU9OWk/maxresdefault.jpg


[7/16/2020 12:38 PM] slinkygn
> There's no in person meeting due to covid
@pearce wasn't sure if that was in response to my question about calculating attendance for quorum by ballots returned, figured I'd ask - is that what was intended?


[7/16/2020 12:49 PM] nullinterface
@slinkygn (George) yes, that's the intended mechanism for calculating attendance


[7/16/2020 12:50 PM] slinkygn
Gotcha.


[7/16/2020 12:50 PM] nullinterface
Wasn't interested in running an all-day election and performing the cat herding that would be needed to maintain low densities for an in-person event vis-a-vis COVID rules


[7/16/2020 12:52 PM] slinkygn
Obviously doesn't matter now, but for the future, if anyone wants I can refer a few professional parliamentarians in the area (likely wouldn't want to do it myself, due to conflict of interest if I am also voting - might check the official code of ethics on that to make sure, but may err toward caution instead) - they can help come up with a way to separate attendance from voting response in a way that doesn't have to be in-person.


[7/16/2020 12:52 PM] slinkygn
There are a few ways to do that; they'd be able to help you pick the one that would run the easiest and people would be most comfortable with.


[7/16/2020 12:55 PM] slinkygn
Not that anything the org picks is or can be "wrong" - it's all fine; an organization has the fundamental right to determine its mechanisms for governance. Just something that may help in the future


[7/16/2020 12:55 PM] slinkygn
(and no, inconveniently none of said mechanisms are in Robert's, even if we did use it) :)


[7/16/2020 12:58 PM] slinkygn
Just thinking, if that separation was made it'd be a lot easier to make quorum - 2/3 is a really high bar, and any help to that is likely useful.

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[7/16/2020 12:59 PM] judykriehn3727
Just an observation, but the members of the previous board did not suffer through as much abuse while they were in office as the current board. There was the occasional bitching, like the time Luke posted the names of purchase agents who had not turned in outstanding receipts or reconciled accounts in a long time (I particularly remember a long tirade at Luke posted by Stan) but really small Potato stuff until February when the expansion finance hit the fan. So they got pounded for a couple of months. Then, the new board was seated, and they began getting pounded, and have continued to be pounded on a daily basis since them. And a whole lot of the pounding was coming from the likes of Kris and her cronies. Which apparently includes you, Draco. You’ve packed up your marbles and stomped off in a huff at least twice since  Oct 2018 when I joined. You keep whining about the space being ruined by the current board. Well, from where i@ sitting, it looks more like Kris and her cronies F**CKed it up for the rest of us. If I heard her say “I can work with anyone” once, I heard her say it a thousand times, then out came the claws, slashing at anybody nearby that she knew wouldn’t fight back. Like Cairenn. (And kris mistreating Cairenn blew my mind, lemme tell ya. Luckily it flew over Cairenn’s head).

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[7/16/2020 1:00 PM] judykriehn3727
But I digress. @Draco, stop with your self-serving bullshit. We aren’t buying it, regardless of the 8000 ways you try to Candy-coat it.


[7/16/2020 1:01 PM] nullinterface
my sense is that bylaws need a total rewrite to handle some of these contingencies I've tried to address in my amendments, however *simply making quorum* is the challenge


[7/16/2020 1:04 PM] nullinterface
@here since it's going to come up sooner rather than later I'll address this now.  Since this ...
https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/disciplinary-actions-regarding-patel-and-havens/73049
https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Board_of_Directors_Meeting_20200715_Special_Meeting
... just happened late in the election, I will be treating votes for Mark the same way that votes for Natcha were handled last year - they will be tallied and reported, but a non-member cannot be elected to the Board *thus Mark Havens is disqualified as a candidate **and cannot be elected to the board***.

https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Bylaws#Section_2.1_Board_of_Directors
> 1. The Board shall consist of five (5) elected persons *who are members in good standing* and of the age of majority in the state of Texas, with no limit to the number of appointed advisers.

https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Bylaws#Section_4.5_Membership_Rights_and_Privileges
> 1. Any regular member whose dues are paid in full, is not on probation, is not a supporting member, and who has not resigned, *been suspended* or has not been expelled shall be considered a member in good standing. Only members in good standing shall be entitled to the rights and privileges of full membership.

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https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Board_of_Directors_Meeting_20200715_Special_Meeting
Board of Directors Meeting 20200715 Special Meeting

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https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Bylaws
Bylaws


[7/16/2020 1:06 PM] nullinterface
I'm not going to discuss the rightness or wrongness of the action, I'm just following the bylaws which unambiguously state that a Director must be a member in good standing, and to be a member in good standing you must not have been expelled


[7/16/2020 1:06 PM] michaelb5250
So you're saying we all should've voted for him for the hell of it? 🤔

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[7/16/2020 1:06 PM] nullinterface
how you vote is ultimately a personal choice


[7/16/2020 3:05 PM] jswilson64
How long 'til the disciplinary hearing makes the "news" section of the 2 Blue Crew's website?  I'm guessing "never"


[7/16/2020 3:14 PM] nullinterface


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[7/16/2020 4:02 PM] themitch22
Now I want that domain for non dms reason


[7/16/2020 4:02 PM] themitch22
He could sell it to 3M


[7/16/2020 4:51 PM] jswilson64
https://i.redd.it/pmugxnkv88b51.jpg

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https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/FynGZwa0KqzphctIHNUEUjKu-yHaWQbbCTWwTnfJCho/https/i.redd.it/pmugxnkv88b51.jpg

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[7/16/2020 5:26 PM] slinkygn
> my sense is that bylaws need a total rewrite to handle some of these contingencies I've tried to address in my amendments, however *simply making quorum* is the challenge
@ESmith Absolutely.  That's why I wanted to suggest that a professional help.  It's a lot easier to make quorum if you can count something more than just the votes that came in.  Entered votes is pretty much the most limited of the counts one could use, just due to the nature of voting.


[7/16/2020 5:27 PM] slinkygn
That may have been a little opaque and unclear. Imma give that another shot. 🙂


[7/16/2020 5:34 PM] slinkygn
So, a common hypothetical example we might give in a training course when we're on the voting "chapter" of training and we're trying to explain the different voting and attendance thresholds is: Say you have an organization of 200 people, and quorum at this organization is defined as 50% of the membership.  You're trying to pass a bylaws amendment (coincidence that we use bylaws as an example a lot in training, btw, not meant as a reference to DMS -- it's just one of the most common 2/3 votes in most orgs).  You give notice of the bylaws vote, and 100 people show up to the meeting.  You hold the vote.  2 people vote yes, 1 votes no, and the other 97 decide they really don't care because it's trivial to them anyway and they don't vote (aka they abstain from voting).  By that count, the motion to amend the bylaws passes.


[7/16/2020 5:36 PM] slinkygn
You probably knew that to be the case (though I do say, it surprises some). But from that I want to draw attention to the idea that one can "receive a ballot" in a regular meeting, not cast it, and it doesn't hurt the ability to gather quorum in the slightest.  That's what the aim would be in regard to finding a workable mechanism that would make quorum easier.  Some superset of "votes cast."


[7/16/2020 5:37 PM] slinkygn
...ugh. I read what I'm saying, and I still feel like what I'm writing is super dense and it's hard to understand how one thing relates to another.  Would it help if I gave a specific example of one way that sort of thing could be done?


[7/16/2020 5:41 PM] canibalcrab
I'd have to re read


[7/16/2020 5:41 PM] canibalcrab
But that sounds pretty similar to what we were doing


[7/16/2020 5:43 PM] canibalcrab
But if I could oversimplify it, for your method

If you don't use your rights it doesn't matter, you have to vote yes or no


[7/16/2020 5:43 PM] canibalcrab
That way the apathetic people don't stagnate the place


[7/16/2020 5:43 PM] slinkygn
Oh, certainly.  What I described is just standard voting procedure.  I don't mean that as a suggestion of what to do -- that's an "excerpt," if you will, from a hypothetical Parli Pro 101 training.  I just meant that to illustrate how much easier it can be to make quorum if you try to count the bigger number than the smaller one. 🙂


[7/16/2020 5:44 PM] slinkygn
That's kinda what I was asking at the end, there -- if it would help to give an actual example of how *that* would be done.


[7/16/2020 5:44 PM] slinkygn
(how one would try to count the 100 votes, apathetic or not, rather than the 3 that returned them, when you don't have a physical meeting to do that in.)


[7/16/2020 5:44 PM] slinkygn
(see, told ya what I wrote was obtuse and hard to see the point of) 🙂


[7/16/2020 5:46 PM] slinkygn
*100 *potential* votes


[7/16/2020 5:46 PM] slinkygn
"in attendance"


[7/16/2020 5:46 PM] canibalcrab
We really do need a way to count quorum but combat the ever growing number of people who request rights but don't use them


[7/16/2020 5:50 PM] slinkygn
So, there are a few ways to do that, like I mentioned - one simple way: have a, let's say, 1-2wk period prior to a major vote (as a regular process, of course, so that members knew to do this -- setting this up would be something done well in advance so people got a chance to get used to it), and that period is a "ballot request" period.  Members with voting rights get emailed/mailed/whatever you like (email is fine, generally speaking but also especially so if such were to be codified in the bylaws) at the beginning of that period and asked to basically "opt-in" to receiving a ballot for the votes that will be held at the upcoming meeting.


[7/16/2020 5:52 PM] slinkygn
Let's say you want to allow e-voting at that meeting too, so just to have some numbers to attach to this -- 2wks ahead that's sent out for a 1wk ballot-request period.  The week passes, those who requested their ballot for that upcoming meeting receive it, they have the next week to submit their vote. Those are then tallied at the meeting, with the ballots handed out counted for the quorum requirement but the ballots received and marked counted for motion pass/fail.


[7/16/2020 5:53 PM] slinkygn
Or tallied wherever. All that is of course up to how the folks running the meeting want to do that.


[7/16/2020 5:54 PM] canibalcrab
I'm not sure how our bylaws are worded exactly, but this sounds like something we should try to amend *before* the next election


[7/16/2020 5:54 PM] slinkygn
Just one example of a method.  Might not work for us, but it's one way to skin that cat.


[7/16/2020 5:54 PM] slinkygn
Yes, that's correct.


[7/16/2020 5:55 PM] slinkygn
As I mentioned, it'd have to be something established well in advance to its use -- and ideally, used at least a couple of times in "real" meetings that aren't the annual organization meeting too, for familiarity.


[7/16/2020 5:59 PM] slinkygn
The above example in particular has as one of its advantages the fact that it's not an overwhelmingly large process change from what we do now -- effectively, instead of sending out ballots we have folks ask for them at a designated period.  A disadvantage would be that while that would add to the number "present" for quorum, it's not a huge change.  Other methods can increase the number available to be counted from there, but larger effects are usually tied to more significant changes in methodology.


[7/16/2020 6:27 PM] nullinterface
On a phone a few hours later, but the text of the bylaws suggests that there's no discounting abstentions or "present" or other non up/down conceits to reduce the size of the pool


[7/16/2020 6:28 PM] nullinterface
"a majority of those present in person or by proxy" or somesuch


[7/16/2020 8:28 PM] yashsedai
lol


[7/16/2020 8:28 PM] lavarocks.


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[7/16/2020 8:28 PM] lavarocks.
That's better


[7/16/2020 8:29 PM] toenolla
?


[7/16/2020 8:31 PM] lavarocks.
I actually meant to post it somewhere else but went with it here.  Hope I dont summon a demon.


[7/16/2020 8:35 PM] toenolla
A lil' hopping demon


[7/16/2020 8:42 PM] lavarocks.
Thats all we need for 2020, crickets that can summon demons.

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[7/16/2020 9:08 PM] slinkygn
> On a phone a few hours later, but the text of the bylaws suggests that there's no discounting abstentions or "present" or other non up/down conceits to reduce the size of the pool
@ESmith It's not reducing the size of the pool.  It's allowing abstentions to stand as abstentions, and if there's no language regarding abstentions it is the standard accepted practice for holding votes.  Goes the other way -- there actually has to be language somewhere to *not* do it that way.  There's no such thing as "discounting abstentions" -- an abstention is literally abstaining from voting. It is not a yea and not a nay.


[7/16/2020 9:10 PM] slinkygn
So the sample scenario I gave of the 200 members, 100 attend, 2 yea, 1 nay, vote carries -- that's not a rules change; that's the default method of holding a vote even in the absence of any rules on voting at all.  To do it differently it would have to be defined as such somewhere.


[7/16/2020 9:11 PM] slinkygn
But you're right in that if the bylaws state any change in or different standard for counting a vote, they would take precedence.


[7/16/2020 9:12 PM] yashsedai
ugh


[7/16/2020 9:12 PM] yashsedai
make it stop


[7/16/2020 9:12 PM] slinkygn
?


[7/16/2020 9:13 PM] nullinterface
OK, propose to the next Board because I'm pretty much out after tomorrow


[7/16/2020 9:13 PM] canibalcrab
so the question is how do we get the changes put into the bylaws with the way they are currently written


[7/16/2020 9:13 PM] slinkygn
Oh, hey.  Okay, got the "make it stop."


[7/16/2020 9:13 PM] slinkygn
Let me back up.


[7/16/2020 9:13 PM] slinkygn
You're doing everything fine.


[7/16/2020 9:13 PM] canibalcrab
because we have tried for two years and failed to get the 2/3rds

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[7/16/2020 9:14 PM] slinkygn
At least as far as I know, and I have no reason to think otherwise.  I'm not trying to criticize.


[7/16/2020 9:14 PM] slinkygn
I think I mentioned before -- an organization has every right to determine how it's managed, and that includes how a vote is taken.  You're totally good.


[7/16/2020 9:14 PM] nullinterface
I'm not upset with you, just ready to *retire* per se


[7/16/2020 9:14 PM] slinkygn
I was *definitely* talking about future stuff, if we want.


[7/16/2020 9:15 PM] nullinterface
Nor do I wish to discourage


[7/16/2020 9:16 PM] slinkygn
Understood. 👍 Just wanted to make sure I wasn't coming across as giving guff.  I get that stuff is kind of tense; definitely don't want to add to that.  I'm sorry if I did.

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[7/17/2020 12:28 AM] nullinterface
between the way director elections work and how the ballot is working out, the only way abstentions change the math on bylaws changes are if someone never touches a specific amendment proposal


[7/17/2020 12:28 AM] nullinterface
which some have, but *precious few*


[7/17/2020 8:06 AM] slinkygn
By abstentions do you mean people who have voting rights but don't turn in a ballot, or people who don't have voting rights but could?


[7/17/2020 8:08 AM] slinkygn
I thought the primary problem we were talking about is that we can't make the 2/3 quorum - which would, I'm sure, be much easier if we had a way to count people with voting rights but that don't turn in a ballot as still "attending the meeting" but abstaining from the vote.


[7/17/2020 8:08 AM] slinkygn
One of the 100 in attendance when you get the two yeas and one nay, to put it another way.


[7/17/2020 8:22 AM] canibalcrab
> By abstentions do you mean people who have voting rights but don't turn in a ballot,


[7/17/2020 8:22 AM] canibalcrab
this


[7/17/2020 8:23 AM] nullinterface
For / Against / Abstain


[7/17/2020 8:23 AM] nullinterface
The latter category


[7/17/2020 8:23 AM] canibalcrab
many edits later


[7/17/2020 8:48 AM] draco_the_drake
```
A quorum is the minimum number of members of a deliberative assembly (a body that uses parliamentary procedure, such as a legislature) necessary to conduct the business of that group. According to Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised, the "requirement for a quorum is protection against totally unrepresentative action in the name of the body by an unduly small number of persons."
```


[7/17/2020 8:56 AM] yashsedai
@stephenie appears schrodingers asshole has returned!


[7/17/2020 9:00 AM] yashsedai
One still does have to wonder what @Draco will do if no blue tape is voted in. I'm considering a pool. Odds yet to be determined


[7/17/2020 9:30 AM] quattroquattro
I feel like Kevin is the only one with a shot of getting in, but he's also the most conflicted. If he gets in he will have a significant conflict of interest with running his business out of dms

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[7/17/2020 9:43 AM] canibalcrab
And getting paid for DMS volunteer efforts


[7/17/2020 9:45 AM] jswilson64
Do the rules allow for purging the voting member rolls 60 days before an election and posting notice that ***anyone who intends to vote*** needs to request voting rights?


[7/17/2020 9:45 AM] jswilson64
that could help achieve quorum, with the downside of appearing to be "voter suppression"


[7/17/2020 9:46 AM] aceat64
the bylaws leave it up to the standing rules for determining that stuff, so the rules could be modified to do that


[7/17/2020 9:58 AM] hon1nbo
maybe rather than 60 days before, make it immediately after elections; give people longer to register, establish it as a well known timing


[7/17/2020 9:58 AM] hon1nbo
I was talking with someone last night that still hadn't voted because they don't understand that if they're registered it takes away from quorum


[7/17/2020 10:03 AM] judykriehn3727
I wish we could change the names of the membership statuses.. Call the 90- day rule members “new members”. Instead of “Sustaining member”, that becomes the “Regular Member.” If they choose the register for voting option, they become “regular member + voting”.


[7/17/2020 10:06 AM] aceat64
we could, just requires a bylaws change lol


[7/17/2020 10:06 AM] aceat64
maybe next year


[7/17/2020 10:57 AM] andrew5152
@hon1nbo (k/j/t) exsilium the purge following voting thing was what was done (whenever that was, 2016?) and then determined to be unacceptable (can't recall exactly why, but something I considered semantic)


[7/17/2020 11:09 AM] draco_the_drake
@A. Spencer(jast) Here is a Talk thread about it ... https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/free-the-dms-five/11357


[7/17/2020 11:44 AM] jswilson64
Maybe purge voting members who didn't vote in the last election.  I can see the *potential* issue with purging all voting members, then a small group with voting rights *could* assert control.


[7/17/2020 12:38 PM] scott_blevins
> OK, propose to the next Board because I'm pretty much out after tomorrow
@ESmith  Congratulations sir.  Job very well done.  I think back to the previous 2 secretaries by way of comparison.

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[7/17/2020 1:01 PM] nullinterface
Thanks, however I feel like Luke deserves some credit for making the best of the situation he was in

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[7/17/2020 1:23 PM] kenpurcell
Yes @lukeiamyourfather  did excellent!


[7/17/2020 1:25 PM] redbeardedpirate
https://media.tenor.com/images/bed5827c6bfbf7937411d532a479e07a/tenor.gif

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[7/17/2020 1:28 PM] kenpurcell
Yes many bullets whizzed by overhead.


[7/17/2020 1:41 PM] quattroquattro
Is there anyone who would make a good secretary and wants to do it?


[7/17/2020 1:45 PM] agr0090
May have to lower your bar, is there anyone who wants to do it?

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[7/17/2020 1:47 PM] kenpurcell
depending on how low you are willing to lower the bar.....


[7/17/2020 2:03 PM] scott_blevins
Thummel level low?


[7/17/2020 2:04 PM] quattroquattro
Yeah... No


[7/17/2020 2:05 PM] scott_blevins
Okay then, Mary level low?


[7/17/2020 2:05 PM] quattroquattro
Still too low


[7/17/2020 2:05 PM] scott_blevins
Erik raised the bar far beyond where we’re accustomed.

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[7/17/2020 2:06 PM] quattroquattro
This is like the guy at the price is right who guesses $1

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[7/17/2020 2:06 PM] quattroquattro
We need at least a $10 secretary 😁


[7/17/2020 2:11 PM] kenpurcell
I'm considering it depending on who ends up on the board. $9.98?

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[7/17/2020 2:17 PM] judykriehn3727
I thought you’d consider treasurer. Again.


[7/17/2020 2:26 PM] andrew5152
Erik SMASHES the volunteer secretary curve

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[7/17/2020 2:33 PM] kenpurcell
No the treasurer position is in much more capable hands. 😉 (shhhhhhh don't scare him off)


[7/17/2020 3:10 PM] judykriehn3727
So you think new board will stray from y'all's strategy of "officers separate from board"? I assumed the forensic accountant would want to downsize his job responsibilities.


[7/17/2020 3:15 PM] kenpurcell
Walter Anderson would have loved this election cycle.

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[7/17/2020 3:47 PM] anutterbutter
He


[7/17/2020 3:58 PM] axeonos
He was a class in and of himself. Miss that old coot


[7/17/2020 4:06 PM] slinkygn
> By abstentions do you mean people who have voting rights but don't turn in a ballot,
> this
@pearce Then, yes, changing how quorum is counted for a particular meeting definitely can change the math for how many votes are needed. Again, a number of ways of doing that, with pros and cons both in how hard they are to enact and how effective they are once enacted. That's a long and complex enough conversation where it likely doesn't lend itself well to a Talk channel, I'd imagine.


[7/17/2020 4:09 PM] slinkygn
> @hon1nbo (k/j/t) exsilium the purge following voting thing was what was done (whenever that was, 2016?) and then determined to be unacceptable (can't recall exactly why, but something I considered semantic)
@A. Spencer(jast) Think it was done both in 2016 and 2017, now that I read that thread.  (Then again, I only made it through the first 20 or so posts before my brain started to hurt... I just happen to know it was done in 2017 too because I dug up the confirmation that I registered again to vote right after the 2017 election.)


[7/17/2020 4:37 PM] canibalcrab
Just once


[7/17/2020 6:12 PM] draco_the_drake
Reset the voting rights.... quick while there is only 6 people ... remove the new board


[7/17/2020 6:15 PM] toenolla
.... That's a joke, right?


[7/17/2020 6:15 PM] Deleted User
the board has to call the meeting...


[7/17/2020 6:15 PM] draco_the_drake
It is an example that *could* *might* happen if there are very few people with voting rights


[7/17/2020 6:15 PM] draco_the_drake
not an example of what I want


[7/17/2020 6:16 PM] toenolla
I'm confused


[7/17/2020 6:16 PM] Deleted User
I'm curious where the idea of "voting rights" comes from.


[7/17/2020 6:16 PM] canibalcrab
That's his example of the tyranny that would happen


[7/17/2020 6:16 PM] Deleted User
The bylaws only distinguish full members in good standing


[7/17/2020 6:16 PM] Deleted User
and explicitly state that all such have the same rights...


[7/17/2020 6:17 PM] draco_the_drake
It takes 2/3 quorum of people with voting rights.   So if their are 6 people that have voting rights .. it takes 4 to vote to change the bylaws or remove a board member


[7/17/2020 6:17 PM] toenolla
Are you talking about purging the voting rights after elections? Seems fine to me.


[7/17/2020 6:17 PM] Deleted User
but what makes you think anyone needs to be granted voting rights


[7/17/2020 6:17 PM] Deleted User
the bylaws don't mention such a thing


[7/17/2020 6:17 PM] toenolla
Right but.... There aren't? Sooooo....


[7/17/2020 6:17 PM] draco_the_drake
After you clear them... there would be


[7/17/2020 6:18 PM] toenolla
Why would there be six and not zero?


[7/17/2020 6:18 PM] canibalcrab
Gonna pause this


[7/17/2020 6:18 PM] draco_the_drake
I'm giving an example .. could be any number of people that first sign up after the reset and schedule a meeting and take a new vote


[7/17/2020 6:18 PM] toenolla
K


[7/17/2020 6:18 PM] canibalcrab
@Draco wtf are you talking about with havens being removed from the eproxy


[7/17/2020 6:18 PM] canibalcrab
Prove it


[7/17/2020 6:19 PM] draco_the_drake
@ESmith ... Do you modify the e-proxy and remove Mark Havens as an option after he was expelled?


[7/17/2020 6:20 PM] draco_the_drake
easier to get it from him .. I'm sure he will tell you


[7/17/2020 6:20 PM] toenolla
I didn't know the system could do that...huh


[7/17/2020 6:20 PM] Deleted User
he already said those votes will be counted


[7/17/2020 6:20 PM] draco_the_drake
Not if they aren't avaliable to be checked


[7/17/2020 6:21 PM] canibalcrab
There you go not answering questions


[7/17/2020 6:21 PM] canibalcrab
On what grounds are you making your statement


[7/17/2020 6:21 PM] skyspook
Can't. Once something is sent with DocuSign it can't be modified without individually changing each one, and everyone would get notifications to the modifications


[7/17/2020 6:21 PM] toenolla
They will be though. You're thinking too much about hypotheticals.


[7/17/2020 6:21 PM] draco_the_drake
People have been contacting Mark asking why they cannot vote for him in the e-Proxy and that it says that Mark was Expelled in the new e-proxy


[7/17/2020 6:22 PM] canibalcrab
I think you should remove your post from talk unless you can prove it with hard evidence


[7/17/2020 6:24 PM] Deleted User
there's definitely an argument he should be removed as a voting option


[7/17/2020 6:24 PM] Deleted User
"Election of the Board of Directors shall be first by nomination, and then by final vote."


[7/17/2020 6:24 PM] Deleted User
"Only members in good standing shall elect or be elected to the Board of Directors."


[7/17/2020 6:24 PM] Deleted User
So his nomination is invalid


[7/17/2020 6:24 PM] toenolla
Some people apparently want to cast a protest vote.


[7/17/2020 6:25 PM] canibalcrab
We can't sproinks


[7/17/2020 6:25 PM] Deleted User
yeah this is all pedanticism


[7/17/2020 6:26 PM] canibalcrab
Same reason nacho got votes last year, he dropped out after it got posted


[7/17/2020 6:26 PM] toenolla
Draco were you able to get in touch with anyone who experienced the issue?


[7/17/2020 6:26 PM] draco_the_drake
Doing so right now ..


[7/17/2020 6:26 PM] draco_the_drake
they should have a copy of the proxy they sent in their email


[7/17/2020 6:27 PM] canibalcrab
And Draco changing his statement to "saying the eproxy says he has been expelled" is different from his statement previously


[7/17/2020 6:27 PM] canibalcrab
Of "removed from the eproxy"


[7/17/2020 6:27 PM] draco_the_drake
No .. it was not allowed to be checked


[7/17/2020 6:28 PM] canibalcrab
Well he can't be elected either. Due to his own actions


[7/17/2020 6:28 PM] canibalcrab
Still waiting on proof


[7/17/2020 6:28 PM] draco_the_drake
I'm contacting the indviduals


[7/17/2020 6:28 PM] apparently_weird
Is this based on yet another video Mark released to YouTube and his personal LinkedIn about an hour ago?


[7/17/2020 6:29 PM] kentamanos
yes


[7/17/2020 6:33 PM] toenolla
oh boy, my soaps are on!

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[7/17/2020 6:35 PM] canibalcrab
He's got till I beat up this team rocket grunt before I flag him for it


[7/17/2020 6:36 PM] brsims2406
For what?


[7/17/2020 6:37 PM] brsims2406
Oh, nvm.


[7/17/2020 6:37 PM] apparently_weird
Apparently we are all non wealthy unsuccessful “nerds” who have no  real power in our personal jobs.

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[7/17/2020 6:38 PM] stephenie.
Mark's wealthy?


[7/17/2020 6:38 PM] kentamanos
I mean, what are you the CEO of?


[7/17/2020 6:39 PM] toenolla
I'm the CEO of Me, which is a fortune 500 Haley.

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[7/17/2020 6:41 PM] quattroquattro
I'm definitely less successful than mark the failed drug dealer...

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[7/17/2020 6:41 PM] themitch22
> Apparently we are all non wealthy unsuccessful “nerds” who have no  real power in our personal jobs.
@Apparently_Weird excuse me "non wealthy *successful* "nerd" myself thank you very much.


[7/17/2020 6:42 PM] canibalcrab
I'll have you know I have C&D's from sanrio DC comics and Fox. I'd think I pushed enough buttons as a business

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[7/17/2020 6:42 PM] draco_the_drake
Where is the vote counting going to be streamed?


[7/17/2020 6:42 PM] draco_the_drake
Or is it?


[7/17/2020 6:42 PM] canibalcrab
Evidence


[7/17/2020 6:42 PM] themitch22
I mean I got my last 4 jobs through the makerspace directly.


[7/17/2020 6:42 PM] canibalcrab
@Draco  show your work


[7/17/2020 6:42 PM] toenolla
Last 2 jobs, same


[7/17/2020 6:43 PM] draco_the_drake
@pearce ... I told you I'm contacting the individuals that have it


[7/17/2020 6:43 PM] draco_the_drake
You will have to wait


[7/17/2020 6:43 PM] toenolla
give @Draco a minute, that's fair


[7/17/2020 6:43 PM] canibalcrab
Gotta spool up Photoshop and premiere I guess

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[7/17/2020 6:44 PM] apparently_weird
@themitch22 that was comment from one of Mark’s anonymous supports that “he couldn’t have said it better himself”

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[7/17/2020 6:44 PM] quattroquattro
I've got no idea what Draco is pouting about but lifes better that way


[7/17/2020 6:44 PM] themitch22
I'm dissapointed that Ryan interviewed in one of his videos


[7/17/2020 6:45 PM] apparently_weird
I’ve gotten some outside gigs via Makerspace but no job.


[7/17/2020 6:45 PM] quattroquattro
I'm just going to jump back in this unsuccessful swimming pool


[7/17/2020 6:45 PM] themitch22
haha


[7/17/2020 6:45 PM] themitch22
sounds nice


[7/17/2020 6:45 PM] canibalcrab
Kevin made $6900 off the Makerspace from the city of mesquite


[7/17/2020 6:45 PM] hon1nbo
> I've got no idea what Draco is pouting about but lifes better that way
@quattroquattro seriously made for better reading


[7/17/2020 6:46 PM] toenolla
Oh my god it must be so nice right now for people who have backyard pools.  No way I'm swimming in the one at my apartments.


[7/17/2020 6:46 PM] themitch22
btw no real power in our personal jobs, we have 220 and 480v 3phase actually I think 1000kw breaker

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[7/17/2020 6:46 PM] canibalcrab
That thing where the DMS was supposed to be making fence board for a park? Kev got paid for it


[7/17/2020 6:46 PM] apparently_weird
Was that only for the kids park or is the Veterans memorial part of that?


[7/17/2020 6:47 PM] quattroquattro
It is especially with this unsuccessful sangria to follow up on the unsuccessful brisket that was smoked for 16 unsuccessful hours in an unsuccessful big green egg


[7/17/2020 6:47 PM] quattroquattro
@pearce about 7k


[7/17/2020 6:47 PM] kentamanos
@quattroquattro keep that up, and I'll be forced to put you on ignore! 🙂

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[7/17/2020 6:48 PM] themitch22
Anyone want to build an unsuccessful nerd Ikea kallax shelf for me?


[7/17/2020 6:48 PM] skyspook
wait, is the ikea kallax nerdy, or you?


[7/17/2020 6:49 PM] skyspook
I'm confused


[7/17/2020 6:49 PM] apparently_weird
@pearce at the time, all PR knew was DMS was donating to fund the park. As a side gig, potentially because of that donation, Kevin was paid to make all the fence posts. From that he also is getting paid for the veterans memorial.


[7/17/2020 6:49 PM] toenolla
@themitch22 I dooooo ;_; I miss you guys


[7/17/2020 6:49 PM] themitch22
@Toenolla the worst twitch stream idea ever, building ikea furniture sober.


[7/17/2020 6:49 PM] skyspook
Do it!


[7/17/2020 6:50 PM] themitch22
Miss you guys too!


[7/17/2020 6:50 PM] skyspook
Don't even need twitch, do it here


[7/17/2020 6:50 PM] toenolla
>_> I watched LRR stream building Ikea shelves.... >_>


[7/17/2020 6:51 PM] quattroquattro


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[7/17/2020 6:51 PM] quattroquattro
Unsuccessful


[7/17/2020 6:51 PM] canibalcrab
The whole time he was doing it he was presenting it as a DMS project

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[7/17/2020 6:51 PM] apparently_weird
If we are going to do this, can we do it where we all talk at the same time, giving Mitch different directions and arguing amongst ourselves about how he is messing up?


[7/17/2020 6:51 PM] toenolla
couch commentary?


[7/17/2020 6:52 PM] themitch22
totally


[7/17/2020 6:52 PM] themitch22
I'll do my best impression of Mark defending himself to those comments


[7/17/2020 6:52 PM] skyspook
@quattroquattro Wait, how is that unsuccessful?


[7/17/2020 6:52 PM] skyspook
@Apparently_Weird Wouldn't that be the point?


[7/17/2020 6:53 PM] quattroquattro
Well Draco and Mark are of the opinion we are unsuccessful


[7/17/2020 6:53 PM] skyspook
Aaaah


[7/17/2020 6:53 PM] skyspook
*woosh*


[7/17/2020 6:53 PM] canibalcrab
Let's move food to off topic


[7/17/2020 6:53 PM] quattroquattro
So I just figured he knows everything and has all the answers


[7/17/2020 6:53 PM] apparently_weird
@sky-spook from the latest Haven video > Apparently we are all non wealthy unsuccessful “nerds” who have no  real power in our personal jobs.
@Apparently_Weird


[7/17/2020 6:53 PM] skyspook
Yea, I have no desire to watch the video after the last ones 🙂


[7/17/2020 6:53 PM] kentamanos
nah, this is where Draco will randomly distance when Mark says stupid things

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[7/17/2020 6:54 PM] skyspook
Guess whatever story he needs to tell to make sense in his world view


[7/17/2020 6:55 PM] themitch22
No ikea streaming, the living room is a mess (reason why I'm building this shelf) and I know nobody at DMS has a messy apartment...


[7/17/2020 6:56 PM] apparently_weird
Hey.. I’m a homeowner now.

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[7/17/2020 6:56 PM] themitch22
there's a reason I only have a dedicated streaming cam on my workbench, so you can only see a 36" square


[7/17/2020 6:56 PM] themitch22
@Apparently_Weird congrats!!


[7/17/2020 6:56 PM] pagezilla
> @sky-spook from the latest Haven video > Apparently we are all non wealthy unsuccessful “nerds” who have no  real power in our personal jobs.
> @Apparently_Weird
@Apparently_Weird 

Methinks he doth project too much

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[7/17/2020 6:56 PM] themitch22
you only need one piece of furniture


[7/17/2020 6:57 PM] apparently_weird
Until the movers show up on Thursday... lol


[7/17/2020 6:57 PM] skyspook
Home ownership is fun. And not fun. And then fun again


[7/17/2020 6:57 PM] themitch22
it's only fun if you have the time and money to fix everythign when it explodes


[7/17/2020 6:57 PM] apparently_weird
Trying to catch up on all the security I never really needed to know.. to implement the home life I want... lol


[7/17/2020 6:58 PM] themitch22
I wish home builders would build a house with a bigger garage than the house part

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[7/17/2020 6:59 PM] apparently_weird
Only on custom builds


[7/17/2020 6:59 PM] themitch22
but if a 4x8' CNC can double as a dining room table, I'm game


[7/17/2020 7:01 PM] kentamanos
@themitch22 it's hard to find something like that close to anything, but I found something that will work and jumped on it


[7/17/2020 7:01 PM] kentamanos
one of the houses we considered for a bit was in "Copper Canyon" and had a bricked 2 story workshop. The commute would have killed my joy for life though.


[7/17/2020 7:02 PM] themitch22
who knew we would all be working remotely because of a airborne virus


[7/17/2020 7:02 PM] themitch22
well some of us


[7/17/2020 7:03 PM] kentamanos
yeah, the commute is not an issue now...hehe


[7/17/2020 7:03 PM] kentamanos
bought this house Jan 30th, so just a little too soon...hehe


[7/17/2020 7:03 PM] themitch22
I got another 30 years to pay off my loans before I looking at a house


[7/17/2020 7:04 PM] themitch22
by then there will be plenty of real estate open


[7/17/2020 7:05 PM] apparently_weird
I thought so too, but LGI got us into a very unsuccessful house for effectively what we were paying in rent.


[7/17/2020 7:05 PM] themitch22
but what do I know, I have no power at my personal job 🙂

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[7/17/2020 7:06 PM] themitch22
that's good to hear, I do like living in the city and neat DMS but at this rate only places affordable will be near waco or near texoma

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[7/17/2020 7:10 PM] quattroquattro
@themitch22 theres some affordable stuff out by tyler


[7/17/2020 7:10 PM] themitch22
in 30 years I am not even sure I'll be alive, so might as well make it work while I can


[7/17/2020 7:11 PM] themitch22
yeah but I feel like if I lived that far from here, I would lose touch with everyone even though I only talk to you guys on discord


[7/17/2020 7:12 PM] themitch22
the big draw of the city is being able to go meet people in a short drive, you have more places to shop than "the walmarts"


[7/17/2020 7:12 PM] themitch22
I've driven enough for work to know I would hate living in BFE Texas


[7/17/2020 7:13 PM] themitch22
Mckinney/Melissa would be ok, Maybe Rockwall, but Carrolton/Farmers Branch even the old 70's houses at $300-400k


[7/17/2020 7:13 PM] apparently_weird
BFE Crowley has multiple Walmart’s nearby, HEB, Kroger etc. just takes 20 minutes sometimes one way. Lol


[7/17/2020 7:15 PM] themitch22
Covid is showing me that I could pretty much live anywhere. It's not like I would hang out with unsuccessful nerds anyway


[7/17/2020 7:15 PM] skyspook
It's why I opted to get an apartment close to work when first moving here. I may move out somewhere else eventually, but it was also coincidentally close to DMS 🙂


[7/17/2020 7:16 PM] themitch22
Only reason I'm living in Farmers Branch is because of DMS


[7/17/2020 7:16 PM] themitch22
so if you guys screw this place up, I have to move


[7/17/2020 7:17 PM] kentamanos
My job has basically told us it's very unlikely people will work in our building ever again. They've wanted to do the remote thing for a while and this was the nudge that will make it stick.


[7/17/2020 7:17 PM] skyspook
I'm noticing a lot of that going around


[7/17/2020 7:17 PM] themitch22
must be nice


[7/17/2020 7:18 PM] themitch22
until I can fully automate a factory, no way I'm going to be able to work remotely in my life.


[7/17/2020 7:18 PM] apparently_weird
I’ve been told it’s unlikely my data team will return this year. Thank goodness for fiber optic


[7/17/2020 7:18 PM] skyspook
My place isn't doing that, but they aren't making us go back either since numbers are still crap.


[7/17/2020 7:18 PM] kentamanos
in some ways it's nice, but I miss the people I work with etc. I'm sure when the bullshit ends, we'll do lunch etc. sometimes

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[7/17/2020 7:18 PM] skyspook
I have my cats as coworkers. Make just as much sense sometimes.


[7/17/2020 7:18 PM] themitch22
Lazy coworkers


[7/17/2020 7:19 PM] kentamanos
I went to lunch every day with a guy from Mansfield (office is in Richardson). I feel like the odds of ever eating lunch with him regularly again are about zero...hehe


[7/17/2020 7:19 PM] themitch22
holy crap that's rough


[7/17/2020 7:19 PM] themitch22
Mansfield is already rough, but the commute doesn't make it better


[7/17/2020 7:19 PM] themitch22
sorry people from Mansfield but they already know


[7/17/2020 7:19 PM] kentamanos
there's no way he drives that far just to eat lunch...hehe


[7/17/2020 7:20 PM] apparently_weird
Why not? I have. But I’m apparently weird. Lol

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[7/17/2020 7:20 PM] themitch22
When I would drive from fort worth to DMS every day, if I didn't work on something it was basically to hang out and eat


[7/17/2020 7:21 PM] themitch22
That's when i could stay at DMS until 6-8am, take a nap in the lounge area, then drive back to go to work at 2pm


[7/17/2020 7:24 PM] themitch22
So when do we hear the results of the eleection?


[7/17/2020 7:24 PM] themitch22
it's going on now


[7/17/2020 7:26 PM] apparently_weird
Sometime between now and Monday.


[7/17/2020 7:42 PM] nullinterface
https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Annual_Member_Meeting_20200717

{Embed}
https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Annual_Member_Meeting_20200717
Annual Member Meeting 20200717


[7/17/2020 7:42 PM] nullinterface
updating intermittently


[7/17/2020 7:44 PM] nullinterface
livestream didn't work, however there's a 360 camera recording


[7/17/2020 7:44 PM] yashsedai
Thanks youtube...


[7/17/2020 7:44 PM] apparently_weird
Thank you. @ESmith very much appreciate all you do.


[7/17/2020 7:44 PM] nullinterface
I'm clipboarding at this point


[7/17/2020 7:56 PM] nullinterface
count underway


[7/17/2020 8:05 PM] skyspook
🤘


[7/17/2020 8:07 PM] skyspook
Ugh, 2 short for bylaws?


[7/17/2020 8:08 PM] skyspook
Killing me y'all


[7/17/2020 8:08 PM] yashsedai
yup


[7/17/2020 8:09 PM] anutterbutter
The reset after election seems a good idea, have everyone sign up to vote again.


[7/17/2020 8:09 PM] skyspook
Or something like it


[7/17/2020 8:10 PM] skyspook
Then get a bylaw to only count those that actually bothered to vote 🙂


[7/17/2020 8:11 PM] anutterbutter
Yes


[7/17/2020 8:14 PM] themitch22
ugh so we can continue to have felons on the board, or we are just not going to check before electing them in the future?


[7/17/2020 8:15 PM] themitch22
but yeah it's sad how low the turnout was.


[7/17/2020 9:17 PM] quattroquattro
I'm really in favor of use it or lose it. You didn't vote yes/no/abstain this round and you are out unless you request rights again

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[7/17/2020 9:18 PM] apparently_weird
Would like to see this implemented at beginning of next term rather than discussed at elections like we have as an organization for quite a few elections now.


[7/17/2020 9:28 PM] lavarocks.


{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/733872710333235260/unknown.gif?ex=67b93638&is=67b7e4b8&hm=d8f1d18ecd3d78dd850b4df9c488d3484e40bf92508f5f5ec58f9c39263a4662&

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[7/17/2020 9:29 PM] apparently_weird
Lol


[7/17/2020 9:30 PM] anutterbutter
Congrats:)


[7/17/2020 9:32 PM] nullinterface
https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Annual_Member_Meeting_20200717#Results

{Embed}
https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Annual_Member_Meeting_20200717
Annual Member Meeting 20200717


[7/17/2020 9:32 PM] draco_the_drake
Curtis Baker : 87
Jim Hartnett : 87


[7/17/2020 9:33 PM] draco_the_drake
Who is the board member?


[7/17/2020 9:33 PM] nullinterface
https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Board_of_Directors#Previous_Board_Members

{Embed}
https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Board_of_Directors
Board of Directors


[7/17/2020 9:33 PM] nullinterface
Reading makes life easier

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[7/17/2020 9:34 PM] draco_the_drake
k


[7/17/2020 9:34 PM] draco_the_drake
Due to the tie for 5th place and lack of a mechanism in the bylaws to resolve ties the Secretary opted for a game of chance was arranged with two die cast for the 5th seat. A 12 was cast for Curtis Baker, a 9 was cast for Jim Hartnett, thus Curtis Baker was declared winner.


[7/17/2020 9:36 PM] canibalcrab
Tada


[7/17/2020 9:37 PM] canibalcrab
You figured it out


[7/17/2020 9:39 PM] skyspook
Man, that was tight. Respect for figuring out a fair way to break it.


[7/17/2020 9:55 PM] aceat64
Love the dice roll idea lol


[7/17/2020 9:55 PM] aceat64
Board of directors, chosen by fair dice roll

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[7/17/2020 9:56 PM] skyspook
Yep. 4.


[7/17/2020 9:57 PM] anutterbutter
@Lavarocks run Forrest

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[7/17/2020 9:57 PM] skyspook
!random


[7/17/2020 9:57 PM] dallas-makerspace#4763
@Skyspook: 4


[7/17/2020 10:01 PM] aceat64
Doesn't seem random


[7/17/2020 10:01 PM] dallas-makerspace#4763
@aceat64, I disagree:
https://xkcd.com/221/

{Embed}
https://xkcd.com/221/
xkcd: Random Number
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/jddhZIjV_24Sq-JB5CFBO3SEMMvECVRuk-CiQ62hGqA/https/imgs.xkcd.com/comics/random_number.png
RFC 1149.5 specifies 4 as the standard IEEE-vetted random number.


[7/17/2020 10:02 PM] themitch22
I rather a skill based challenge, like hand soldering a 0204 smd


[7/17/2020 10:04 PM] hon1nbo
How about that Mario party tracing game, but instead using the plasma table joystick


[7/17/2020 10:05 PM] aceat64
Well at least we know no one got disenfranchised in the election, since even double the votes wouldn't have helped Mark


[7/17/2020 10:14 PM] yashsedai
Lololol


[7/17/2020 10:17 PM] merissa4308
Really great job organizing and administering the election @ESmith !  Thank you for all your hard work!

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[7/17/2020 10:32 PM] nullinterface
Glad to see this to completion

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[7/17/2020 10:37 PM] toenolla
Oof... What a stressful election. I'm so glad it's over.

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[7/17/2020 10:41 PM] stephenie.
@ESmith you have earned your rest.  Thank you for carrying us this far.

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[7/17/2020 11:04 PM] james_david_vance
I think there's a huge opportunity to heal the broken relationships at the space by changing the way we communicate and work together (primarily talking about myself here). I think I can do this, and I think I will grow as a person because of it. I think it's going to be extremely valuable to me. I hope that it will be valuable to others. It will certainly be a challenge, but I'm not one to shy away from a challenge once I frame it properly. I think I stand to gain a lot. I'm tired of being stressed out.

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[7/17/2020 11:08 PM] lavarocks.
Then stop contributing to the bullshit. You were such a huge portion of the stress.

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[7/17/2020 11:12 PM] james_david_vance
Absolutely

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[7/17/2020 11:13 PM] james_david_vance
One of my goals is to stop contributing to the bullshit. I know that I have. I want to focus on building and healing. I think this is an area where I have a lot of room to grow.

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[7/17/2020 11:15 PM] nullinterface
Glad to have completed the final *deliverable*

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[7/17/2020 11:15 PM] nullinterface
I had a lot of help

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[7/18/2020 12:18 AM] nullinterface
And back to the usual nickname


[7/18/2020 12:19 AM] canibalcrab
If you add your meat space name people might spell it right


[7/18/2020 12:19 AM] canibalcrab
(this was a lie and pearce knew it)


[7/18/2020 12:20 AM] michaelb5250
It's been a while since I've seen a talk post asking to meet up with 'pierce' now that I think about it.


[7/18/2020 12:20 AM] canibalcrab
I have suspicions that one will pop up soon


[7/18/2020 12:35 AM] hon1nbo
we had one a couple weeks ago


[7/18/2020 12:36 AM] hon1nbo
re: tow stickers


[7/18/2020 12:40 AM] aceat64
All I know is that I've heard a lot of bad things about some guys named Eric and Pierce


[7/18/2020 12:40 AM] aceat64
And some dude with a nose ring


[7/18/2020 12:41 AM] canibalcrab
I hear Pierce has no facial hair


[7/18/2020 12:50 AM] yashsedai
lol


[7/18/2020 12:59 AM] axeonos
Wonder if Eric and pierce hang out with that guy with blue hair and nose ring....

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[7/18/2020 1:01 AM] axeonos
To old board: thank you for your service. To new board....im soo soooooo sorry....


[7/18/2020 1:02 AM] axeonos
To those who didn't make it: lucky bastards.

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[7/18/2020 3:04 AM] nullinterface
good thing Eric is some other guy


[7/18/2020 9:48 AM] jswilson64
@Draco any update to your harassing talk post about the former secretary modifying the ballots mid stream?

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[7/18/2020 10:34 AM] canibalcrab
I was told to give him time for that evidence to come up


[7/18/2020 10:34 AM] canibalcrab
Still waiting


[7/18/2020 10:39 AM] aceat64
When he realizes they weren't telling him the truth I'm sure he'll apologize for spreading conspiracy junk and feeding into ever more drama

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[7/18/2020 10:40 AM] stephenie.


{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/734072033507410031/Screenshot_20200718-103934.png?ex=67b9471b&is=67b7f59b&hm=ae9aa441930e4f206df1f696cbbde98c4d695d3d511ecb76267fbb2060aca46f&


[7/18/2020 10:40 AM] stephenie.
16 hours and counting


[7/18/2020 10:42 AM] michaelb5250
Y'all gonna be waiting a while for him to come up with facts.


[7/18/2020 10:43 AM] roomatologist
Maybe it would be easier for literally anyone else to send a screen shot of their DocuSign showing Havens on the ballot, since no one else who is claiming he wasn't on there will show theirs


[7/18/2020 10:49 AM] michaelb5250
Why even bother? Only a minority believe this crap, and I don't think he's about to break his well established record of not doing anything about it.


[7/18/2020 10:51 AM] lavarocks.


{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/734074830432894986/unknown.gif?ex=67b949b6&is=67b7f836&hm=440012fe63ead211648ec7a94bcf3d2cfceed99bc26329909361e418bf7c15fd&


[7/18/2020 10:52 AM] yashsedai
LOL


[7/18/2020 10:53 AM] yashsedai
dagron has a terrible track record for factual info


[7/18/2020 11:00 AM] stephenie.


{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/734077235417317396/Screenshot_20200718-105838.png?ex=67b94bf3&is=67b7fa73&hm=b8b67b6bf3923be58396aa1c21b1f5814eeaa913841bc12073ab448ed82182c6&


[7/18/2020 11:01 AM] stephenie.


{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/734077310856069211/Screenshot_20200718-105935.png?ex=67b94c05&is=67b7fa85&hm=bc2388f210e9dc95893a1351580dd999bceb4ba37c2bcd670a098d5ee8f93d76&


[7/18/2020 11:01 AM] stephenie.
Contrast those two statements.


[7/18/2020 11:01 AM] yashsedai
dagron still can't admit he had bad info


[7/18/2020 11:03 AM] sinless5555
How many paper proxies were received in the end vs electronic?


[7/18/2020 11:03 AM] stephenie.
When Draco's friends are the source, he states as fact; he doesn't wait for screenshots; 100% trust.  When non-friend sources present facts, Draco uses "I believe" and "however" + plus needs more info.

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[7/18/2020 11:04 AM] lavarocks.
The best part of waking up, is realizing I muted him and never had to witness it.


[7/18/2020 11:04 AM] sinless5555
So true


[7/18/2020 11:04 AM] stephenie.
Classic "feelings as facts" trait


[7/18/2020 11:05 AM] lavarocks.
The ol' i dont like the factual truths being presented to me, so i will sow the seeds of doubt


[7/18/2020 11:12 AM] michaelb5250
I think it was something like ~50 paper ballots


[7/18/2020 11:14 AM] nullinterface
48 mailed proxies


[7/18/2020 11:14 AM] nullinterface
If only there had been 50

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[7/18/2020 11:14 AM] brsims2406
Lol


[7/18/2020 11:17 AM] sinless5555
I should have done e-voting. I sent paper and have this paranoid worry that it was lost.


[7/18/2020 12:12 PM] axeonos
Same. I did paper and the back of my mind tells me it won't be there till monday.


[7/18/2020 1:15 PM] judykriehn3727
Ken and I both counted your  ballots, @Axeonos  & @Sinless. (I also opened every mailed ballot received and wrote the name on the envelope, then alphabetized the envelopes for Erik.)

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[7/18/2020 1:18 PM] judykriehn3727
That’s not to say I memorized every mailed ballot. I just noticed names I recognized here and there and they stuck to my conscious. Whereas when I get in my car in a bit to run an errand, I won’t remember what that errand was.


[7/18/2020 1:23 PM] stephenie.
There aren't enough thank yous to adequately express our gratitude to the team that counted the votes -  during a pandemic - wearing masks - in an enclosed room - while somehow keeping 6+ feet apart.  🌻 💐 🌷 🌹 🌼

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[7/18/2020 1:23 PM] stephenie.
We don't deserve you


[7/19/2020 8:51 AM] slinkygn
Man, my birthday made for *perfect* timing for me to avoid any election drama :) happy birthday to me!

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[7/19/2020 8:51 AM] slinkygn
For the record: I was in the very last batch of DocuSign ballots. Mark was indeed still on my ballot.

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[7/19/2020 8:52 AM] slinkygn
Reading back seemed to imply it may have not been 100% settled (99?). If I'm late to the party and it's already ironclad, my bad. If not, hope that helps.

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[7/19/2020 9:26 AM] kenpurcell
Thanks for noting that the ballots were not changed for you. BTW, or in anyway for anyone. In the end Mark came in last place and had zero chance of making it onto the board. I know the voters saw the cringe worthy dialogues and voted for people that are going to carry DMS forward. Not to say that we cannot rally for the good ideas/items that all candidates brought up.


[7/19/2020 9:52 AM] andrew5152
I have the impression it's already settled, and I'm not expecting Draco to return to it. I *personally* would like to remove the statement altogether, rather than just having it hidden, and I *personally* am hoping Draco will do the Right Thing ™ and make that edit. As a mod...I'm still *considering* doing it for him, but I would need to confer with the team, and haven't taken the time...
Even hidden, that assertion is damaging, in my opinion (and, if Mods could just cast flags, I would have, but they have limited options once posts are hidden/flagged and none fit my desire in this case)
tl;dr: I think it's "resolved" because we believe Erik when he says he did not make any changes. 
(also, Justin and AndrewL when they say all the ways DocuSign prevents that, and DocuSign, who says it wasn't changed, and let's face it, that's kind of their bread&butter)


[7/19/2020 10:00 AM] slinkygn
Was this on Talk, I guess?


[7/19/2020 10:00 AM] stephenie.
If Draco won't remove the damaging statement, would the mods consider a Talk time out? @A. Spencer(jast)

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[7/19/2020 10:00 AM] nullinterface
> tl;dr: I think it's "resolved" because we believe Erik when he says he did not make any changes. 
@A. Spencer(jast) 
Everyone that voted electronically received a copy of their ballot as they completed it since DocuSign is serious about providing documents *as signed* to all parties.  I don't even have the software to edit PDFs, thus Judy's underlying document is what I used.  Once I got the form populated with the checkboxes and fields I used the same form for all proxies.  My goal was to deliver the *voter's intent* to the polls regardless of how they voted.

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[7/19/2020 10:01 AM] slinkygn
So as far as DocuSign is concerned, it was basically like a single contract with 100 or whatnot parties?


[7/19/2020 10:01 AM] andrew5152
@slinkygn (George) yes, the screencaps from Stephenie are Talk.


[7/19/2020 10:01 AM] slinkygn
(miiiight be taking notes in case this method is useful for a client in the future) :)


[7/19/2020 10:02 AM] nullinterface
my cynical take - I don't think much anyone believes it and frankly I lose no sleep whatsoever if Draco would rather save face than maintain whatever credibility he may have had


[7/19/2020 10:02 AM] andrew5152
Good on you, Erik.


[7/19/2020 10:03 AM] andrew5152
And truly, me neither, except...
the "let's all just heal" crowd (formerly the bluetape crowd) foments discord while saying they're not by leaving this kind of "easter egg" for future lookyloos to stumble upon and dredge back up.

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[7/19/2020 10:04 AM] nullinterface
> So as far as DocuSign is concerned, it was basically like a single contract with 100 or whatnot parties?
@slinkygn (George) Basically.  I used a PDF as a template, overlaid some fields to be populated via a CSV file, then generated a CSV file with the same values and bulk sent.  I get a copy as signed as does the signer.  there are more involved workflows available, but that's the most basic one.


[7/19/2020 10:04 AM] andrew5152
@stephenie personally, I don't see a timeout as helpful at this point; he's largely disappeared, so it's just the contrail that concerns me


[7/19/2020 10:04 AM] stephenie.
Understood


[7/19/2020 10:05 AM] andrew5152
but we'll see what next week brings...

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[7/19/2020 10:06 AM] nullinterface
@slinkygn (George) I *will* say that DocuSign has an uncanny valley that I was stuck in the middle of - their semi-automation is horrible to the point that it's almost broken - they'd rather you do simple single doument transmission or use an API


[7/19/2020 10:06 AM] stephenie.
Erik did an amazing job (can't be said enough) and you mods have thankless job.


[7/19/2020 10:07 AM] andrew5152
Erik did do amazing work in his 1+ year (this round, not to discount the amazing work he did on prior tours of duty) and he and @judy Kriehn truly, with this election, over the moon.


[7/19/2020 10:08 AM] slinkygn
Gotcha. 100-ish documents ends up falling right in the middle where you're either handling every doc push individually or essentially coding a solution that would take just as long to write and debug.


[7/19/2020 10:09 AM] slinkygn
That is definitely a strike.


[7/19/2020 10:09 AM] slinkygn
Odd that they wouldn't have something to fill that middle use case - you'd think something as simple as a spreadsheet-like bulk form would help that.


[7/19/2020 10:10 AM] slinkygn
I suppose that's not a range they deal with a lot.


[7/19/2020 10:15 AM] nullinterface
They do have a solution, but it's buggy and the workarounds are almost *superstitious*

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[7/19/2020 10:17 AM] nullinterface
Using both Chrome and Edge I had to do two absolutely bizarre things to make it work:
1. Set a manual recipient as "Bulk Recipient" / bulk@recipient.com
2. Prior to importing the CSV, save as draft then resume draft, otherwise it will never actually load the CSV


[7/19/2020 10:22 AM] slinkygn
That is pretty weird!


[7/19/2020 11:14 AM] kenpurcell
Whoa, that is janky


[7/19/2020 11:15 AM] nullinterface
their support suggested some other superstitious workaround that didn't work and pointed me to their support page that was clearly out of date relative to the current UI


[7/20/2020 8:18 PM] kenpurcell
Working on a elections history page for the wiki, can anyone put eyes on this and complete any missing info, namely 2016. ```DMS Board of Directors Election History


2011
 
Total Votes Cast    23

Candidate        Votes
Andrew LeCody        22
Peter Smith        16
Nicole Greeley        10
Leland Flynn        10
Alyssa Pipe        9

----

Jonathan Shook        8
Mark Havens        7
Paul Wilson        5
Alan Hatchett        5
Gus Reiter        4
Doug Emes        4
Ben Bangerter        4
Steven Reeves        4
Shona Haskins        3
Bryan Smith        2



2012


Total Votes Cast    43  

Candidate        Votes
Nicole Greeley        40
Andrew LeCody        39
John Haskins        36
Peter Smith        33
Robert Davidson        23

----

Philip Wrage        21
Bryan Martin        17



2013


Total Votes Cast    45  

Candidate        Votes
Andrew LeCody        39
Paul Brown        33
john a. gorman        25
Peter Smith        23
Robert Davidson        22

----

Andrew Falgout        18
Kent Bowling        18
Greg Needel        14
Mike Eber        12
Romeo Espana        12
Nick Sainz        7```


[7/20/2020 8:18 PM] kenpurcell
```2014


Total Votes Cast    53  

Candidate        Votes
Pearce Dunlap        47
Andrew LeCody        45
Benjamin Groves        44
Robert Davidson        36
Andrew Falgout        29

----

john a. gorman        27
Alex Rhodes        22


2015


Total Votes Cast    66  

Candidate        Votes
Alex Rhodes        44
Benjamin Groves        44
Robert Davidson        41
Andrew LeCody        40
Kent Bowling        35

----

Pearce Dunlap        32
Allen Wan        31
Krissy Heishman        24
Luke Olson        21
Nick Sainz        11



2016

Total Votes Cast    NN 

Alex Rhodes        NN
Erik Smith        NN
Ken Purcell        NN
Luke Olson        NN    
Robert Davidson        NN

----

Other Candidates?


2017


Total Votes Cast    135  


Candidate        Votes
Alex Rhodes        91
David Kessinger        90
Kris Anderson        88
Robert Davidson        70
Mitch Cerroni        64

----

Steve Blanchard        61
Brian Davis        60
Luke Olson        50
Walter Anderson        48
David Guill        31



2018

Total Votes Cast    135


Candidate        Votes
Kris Anderson        127
David Kessinger        111
Luke Strickland        110
Chuck Baber        98
Steve Blanchard        93

----

Haley Moore        78
Adam Oas        77
Eric Harter        56
Allen Wan        28```


[7/20/2020 8:19 PM] kenpurcell
```2019

Candidate        Votes
Julie Harris        120
James Henningson    113
Marshall Blatz        94
Scott Blevins        84
Ken Purcell        75

----

Paul Wilson        71
Steve Blanchard        57
Allen Wan        39
Adnan Chahbandar    38
Charles Proctor        29
Natcha Pradappet    13
Troy Barrios    11


2020

Total Votes Cast    186  

Candidate        Votes
Julie Harris        138
James Henningson    129
Brad Sims        124
Justin Walker        100
Curtis Baker        87 *

----

Jim Hartnett        87 *
Patrick Thompson    65
Joe King        50
Kevin Patel        38
Max Kirkland        38
Mark Havens        31

* Due to the tie for 5th place and lack of a mechanism in the bylaws to resolve ties - and with the consensus of all present - the Secretary opted for a game of chance with two die cast for each contestant for the 5th seat. A 12 was cast for Curtis Baker, a 9 was cast for Jim Hartnett, thus Curtis Baker was declared winner.```


[7/20/2020 8:20 PM] agr0090
Did "2019

Total Votes Cast #" get truncated? dont see it


[7/20/2020 8:24 PM] kenpurcell
yep sorry ```2019

Total Votes Cast    159

Candidate        Votes
Julie Harris        120
James Henningson    113
Marshall Blatz        94
Scott Blevins        84
Ken Purcell        75

----

Paul Wilson        71
Steve Blanchard        57
Allen Wan        39
Adnan Chahbandar    38
Charles Proctor        29
Natcha Pradappet    13
Troy Barrios    11
```


[7/20/2020 8:25 PM] kenpurcell
Should have just attached the file instead of pasting such a large block of text.

{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/734944025001459712/DMS-Election-History.txt?ex=67b92776&is=67b7d5f6&hm=3c7f7d00d0b419591e301693d0a6e62b15de6cca811fc5aa7399906ec7b1424f&


[7/20/2020 8:39 PM] themitch22
@Lampy (Ken Purcell) I wasn't a board member in 2017, but thanks for getting my hopes up.


[7/20/2020 8:43 PM] themitch22
Dodged that bullet twice by a few votes

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[7/20/2020 9:04 PM] kentamanos
I think you're missing physical votes. Not sure where that breakdown is though.


[7/20/2020 9:05 PM] themitch22
those don't count 🙂


[7/20/2020 9:06 PM] themitch22
haha I'm sure slept well in my own bed. I barely remember running for the board actually. The good ol' days


[7/20/2020 9:06 PM] themitch22
I'm glad Krissy ran, I wish she got it.


[7/21/2020 10:28 AM] kenpurcell
I forgot that year we had a mix of online and paper proxy votes. Sorry Mitch, next time!


[7/21/2020 10:29 AM] kenpurcell
Updated version

{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/735156592579838062/DMS-Election-History.txt?ex=67b944ae&is=67b7f32e&hm=04ce000c29ab1a9713b3a62c5f323f62096cbdddc8dc745e5e1c4e19c0b50c05&


[7/21/2020 1:07 PM] themitch22
Haha no next time


[7/21/2020 1:19 PM] kenpurcell
Smartest person in the room!

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[7/21/2020 8:34 PM] geekgoddesskilobyte
Aww! I see my name! Haha.


[7/22/2020 11:32 PM] andrew5152
I'm sure I'll get roasted for this, but...
Has there been, or will there be, any "changing of the guard"  ceremonies for the Board?
I've been trying to figure out when the actual hand off was going to happen, expecting the usual BoD ceremonial meeting, but none has been announced so far as I know.
It appears the wiki list for BoD was unceremoniously changed, so I'm guessing it's done, and the answer to my query is "no"...


[7/22/2020 11:34 PM] nullinterface
I'm sure we've discussed this, but BoD handoffs - if they happen - are purely ceremonial.  And there can be value in such.


[7/22/2020 11:39 PM] andrew5152
as I think I've stated in relation to other such ceremonies, if not the BoD specifically, the ceremony is *vital* to the health of the organization, so I'm bitterly disappointed if we've chosen to forgo all efforts this round. I take it you believe the ceremony this time is not happening, and the handoff occurred commensurate with the votes being tallied? 
So, then, I guess Talk Titles and the like need altered? (I'm hesitant to engage Erik in this convo, because I know he's *not involved* but at the moment, he's responding, and likely in the know, so... 🤷‍♂️


[7/22/2020 11:41 PM] skyspook
Curt and I chatted with the rest of the board and the outgoing members earlier this week. I figured we'd do titles and whatnot eventually.


[7/22/2020 11:41 PM] skyspook
*Curtis, my apologies :)


[7/22/2020 11:43 PM] andrew5152
I'll scowl annoyedly that people who aren't Directors (until the ceremony, as far as I'm concerned) act like they're directors while Directors act like they're just common members.


[7/22/2020 11:43 PM] nullinterface
Living in ignorance myself

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[7/22/2020 11:44 PM] nullinterface
my board's attempt at a handoff was met with ill-concealed contempt by our successors, so we skipped out on the meeting itself seemingly to the annoyance of some of the new directors

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[7/22/2020 11:46 PM] nullinterface
anyway I don't disagree that they're beneficial to the community


[7/22/2020 11:46 PM] canibalcrab
so covid fucked up some of this


[7/22/2020 11:46 PM] nullinterface
however the legal reality is that as soon as the election is concluded, the old batch is out and the new is in


[7/22/2020 11:47 PM] canibalcrab
when the board was haned over to my board we had a real meeting with like 8 board members, they called a meeting, handed over, and then we ran it from there


[7/22/2020 11:47 PM] canibalcrab
but that doesnt really work right now


[7/22/2020 11:52 PM] nullinterface
I mean, I edited *myself* out of the Secretary title on Talk pretty promptly after resigning and also noticed that my permissions in the BoD category disappeared soon after - as was appropriate

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[7/22/2020 11:54 PM] andrew5152
well, yeah, because nobody but me want this to happen, I guess.
I may be alone on my island, but I'll defend my opinion into the ground:
people get confused when there is no ceremony. The symbolic changing of the guard, passing of the flag, handoff of the baton *needs* to be done so that we can all be on the same page about what the organization is doing and where we all are in the process. Otherwise, we're all just guessing, and hoping our understand of the situation is right. These delineations are absolutely vital to the health of the organization, especially if we want to have any kind of zeitgeist (and we do). Without this kind of pomp and circumstance, there is not tone, no expectation, no cultural cohesion.
alright. Stump rightfully stood upon.
I'll shove off now, until I have the same bitch about the committee chairs being nonchalantly "mehed" from one occupant to another in a week or two, leaving all of us mere mortals in the lurch, wondering just who in the fuck is in charge of what.
I'll go change titles in Talk (probably tomorrow, unless someone else beats me to it) but I don't have the necessary access to change group memberships, so "@board_of_directors" will still be whomever it is right now (no idea if it's right or wrong; I can't see it).
Thank you for weighing in and helping me get on the right page.


[7/22/2020 11:55 PM] nullinterface
> people get confused when there is no ceremony
I agree.  Express it in written communication all you want, seeing the new people without visual transfer is jarring.


[7/22/2020 11:56 PM] andrew5152
Honestly, it hasn't even been communicated in writing.


[7/22/2020 11:56 PM] andrew5152
it's been *implied*


[7/22/2020 11:56 PM] andrew5152
and as you state, is implicit in the vote being finalized


[7/22/2020 11:56 PM] andrew5152
but that's still *implied*


[7/22/2020 11:56 PM] nullinterface
Talk, the wiki as the **source of truth**

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[7/22/2020 11:57 PM] nullinterface
laugh if you want, but the wiki is the final word on many things


[7/22/2020 11:57 PM] slinkygn
Sure -- but you did mention *two* sources there...


[7/22/2020 11:57 PM] andrew5152
on that front...does anyone know how to edit thoe pages you protected?


[7/22/2020 11:57 PM] nullinterface
the handful of wiki admins


[7/22/2020 11:58 PM] nullinterface
I presumably still have that permission.  I've indicated to our presumptive Secretary I'll help with some wiki functions.


[7/22/2020 11:58 PM] slinkygn
And in agreeing with the point y'all are making, even communicated in writing isn't quite the same as expressed visually and physically.


[7/22/2020 11:58 PM] slinkygn
(leaving aside that the wiki is a pull, not a push, content source.)


[7/22/2020 11:58 PM] andrew5152
ah. no idea who those might be. I hope one of them is working when the new *not quite "the"* secretary is named...


[7/22/2020 11:59 PM] nullinterface
appears I still have the rights

{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/735722761997254685/unknown.png?ex=67b959b7&is=67b80837&hm=d29537c438a9d83ac786330e60654c9584671e243a46e4230e35ff0bfac9b644&

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[7/23/2020 12:00 AM] andrew5152
80% sure those never, ever, get changed...you're always in. Like being a Marine, I think...


[7/23/2020 12:01 AM] nullinterface
fairly certain that Andrew LeCody still has permissions


[7/23/2020 12:01 AM] andrew5152
he did once, ergo...


[7/23/2020 12:18 AM] aceat64
I probably do


[7/23/2020 12:51 AM] judykriehn3727
> well, yeah, because nobody but me want this to happen, I guess.
> I may be alone on my island, but I'll defend my opinion into the ground:
> people get confused when there is no ceremony.
@A. Spencer(jast)  

But on a positive note, Brad has got the agenda started for the Aug 5 board meeting.

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[7/23/2020 9:35 AM] kenpurcell
We did have a google meet after the election results were posted. After that we bowed out of the meeting and the new board continued in the meeting.  I assumed that we would show up (or appear on the next google meeting) for the ceremonial part of the handoff on August 6th. Along with the officializing of the new chairs and some officers.

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[7/23/2020 12:44 PM] andrew5152
I was unaware of the meet that did happen and I don't see the handoff in the agenda, so assumed it was not going to happen. I think that'd be great way to get it done, and would support that 100% (and hopefully be able to "be there"). 👍


[7/23/2020 1:11 PM] kenpurcell
It was just a casual meeting so I doubt there are minutes. Looks like the next meeting on https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Board_of_Directors_Meeting_20200806 will be the ceremonial handoff.

{Embed}
https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Board_of_Directors_Meeting_20200806
Board of Directors Meeting 20200806


[7/23/2020 1:21 PM] andrew5152
hm. nothing on there about  BoD changing seats.
although the officer naming IS on there...
you're a glutton for punishment, eh?

{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/735924595080691803/unknown.png?ex=67b96cf0&is=67b81b70&hm=2e1a37aa71c0d3b39d37825af38ed7ec8471076ffc372f080dbb9a769424c773&


[7/23/2020 1:22 PM] andrew5152
Thank you for volunteering. I hope you can ease our addiction to Erik's secsause.


[7/23/2020 1:57 PM] kenpurcell
Erik is the master, we will see if this grasshopper can snatch the pebble from his hand.

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[7/29/2020 6:00 PM] doug.emes
https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/smu-cox-free-webinar-tomorrow-leading-change-in-volatile-times/73546

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[7/30/2020 9:38 AM] nullinterface
wow.  I haven't checked my DMS email *for days*.


[7/30/2020 9:40 AM] andrew5152
Good for you!


[7/30/2020 9:40 AM] andrew5152
now, highlight and...delete


[7/30/2020 9:58 AM] themitch22
You know that feeling when you quit or get fired from a job that was stressing you out, is that how it feels?


[7/30/2020 10:52 AM] nullinterface
sort of


[7/30/2020 6:14 PM] scott_blevins
Liberation is a wonderful thing.


[7/30/2020 9:02 PM] hardsuit
Joy.  Oaklahoma Box dude is threatening a class action lawsuit against DMS on Facebook


[7/30/2020 9:14 PM] aceat64
in my experience, no one threatens to sue and then actually sues


[7/30/2020 9:17 PM] kenpurcell
He keeps saying that but hasn't


[7/30/2020 10:03 PM] quattroquattro
I'm no lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that's not how class action lawsuits work. I would assume he needs more than 2 butthurt people to form a class action.

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[7/30/2020 10:04 PM] themitch22
he could get Marks pseudo lawyer expertise


[7/30/2020 10:11 PM] aceat64
you need about 40 or more


[7/30/2020 10:16 PM] quattroquattro
Plus generally when you see a class action it's for a common issue, like faulty airbags or some shit. Each person he claims to represent was kicked out for different reasons.


[7/30/2020 10:18 PM] themitch22
pretty sure legit reasons people were permabanned isn't going to hold up in court if that's why he wants to sue

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[7/30/2020 10:18 PM] quattroquattro
If we kick out 40 people for threatening to shoot us for pulling out of a race due to covid-19 then he still wouldn't have a case because that's a valid reason to kick someone out...


[7/30/2020 10:27 PM] ferricyanide7475
In my experience plenty of people threaten to sue and then do, just the successful ones usually just sue with no warning.


[7/30/2020 10:31 PM] ferricyanide7475
Though i would say most that threaten it don't actually follow through


[7/30/2020 11:02 PM] aceat64
when I worked tech support we got a lot of people who thought threatening a lawsuit would somehow get them free stuff or faster service


[7/30/2020 11:03 PM] aceat64
turns out none of them ever sued over their $100/mo hosting contract lol


[7/31/2020 8:25 AM] nullinterface
neverminding the legalities of trying to sue DMS - *the damages aren't worth litigating*


[7/31/2020 8:28 AM] nullinterface
access to the facility is your main benefit and that's worth $50 - $60 a month; with most members on monthly the total damage is ... $50-$60.  Tenfold that amount for annual members.  even with the possibility of a *treble damages* claim that's still markedly less than most lawyers will work for.


[7/31/2020 8:32 AM] nullinterface
if you're foolish enough to run your business from DMS you might *feel* like you've lost something dear - such as your livelihood - but being expelled from DMS is not the same as a landlord kicking you out of your rented workshop despite being current on rent.

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[7/31/2020 8:34 AM] nullinterface
the legal threshold for being expelled is pretty low as well - a finding of the Board of Directors


[7/31/2020 8:36 AM] nullinterface
heck, the Marlows had some *shadow* of an expectation of compensation with their threatened lawsuit *vis-à-vis* that 'contract'


[7/31/2020 10:30 AM] themitch22
10% discount for annual members i think so not quite tenfold


[7/31/2020 10:31 AM] themitch22
Wait I thought I paid $550 and now $640 thats 10% yep


[7/31/2020 10:32 AM] themitch22
Plus $110 for add-on


[7/31/2020 10:32 AM] themitch22
Minus the 3 months I couldn't use DMS, guess I have to sue for my $150


[7/31/2020 10:33 AM] themitch22
After $5000 in legal fees its the principle of the matter


[7/31/2020 10:57 AM] nullinterface
*TL;DR : good luck finding a lawyer that will take the case*


[7/31/2020 11:07 AM] skyspook
A good lawyer would tell you it's not worth it. A dubious one will gladly take your money and file things. You CAN sue for anything, but most of those things won't go far.


[7/31/2020 11:09 AM] hon1nbo
I know one that would take it


[7/31/2020 11:09 AM] hon1nbo
they will tell you every step of the way to cut your losses or move on


[7/31/2020 11:09 AM] hon1nbo
and every time you tell them to keep pushing it they make you sign something that you ignored their advice


[7/31/2020 11:09 AM] hon1nbo
and they'll charge you


[7/31/2020 11:09 AM] skyspook
To convert to class action takes a lot though. Court probably wouldn't grant it


[7/31/2020 11:09 AM] skyspook
YEp


[7/31/2020 11:09 AM] hon1nbo
despite telling you repeatedly you don't want it


[7/31/2020 11:09 AM] skyspook
That's just allowing a fool to part with his money


[7/31/2020 11:10 AM] hon1nbo
he sat down one such person, explained in writing with the math in front of them highlighting the amount that would be owed at the end


[7/31/2020 11:10 AM] hon1nbo
and said "you can do it, but we suggest you drop it"


[7/31/2020 11:10 AM] hon1nbo
and the few people that do things "for the principle" pursue it


[7/31/2020 11:10 AM] hon1nbo
whereas most just move along


[7/31/2020 11:22 AM] kenpurcell
Ricky was confused on what he was going to sue us for anyway. Letting Kris, Stan and others rip us off and the lacks of the board doing anything. Or that we followed the closure orders and he was too dumb to cancel his membership.


[7/31/2020 12:12 PM] themitch22
Do we still have that lawyer? The one that Kris bossed around at that meeting?


[7/31/2020 12:18 PM] michaelb5250
iirc the last board found a new lawyer


[7/31/2020 12:20 PM] themitch22
Ok cool


[7/31/2020 12:42 PM] kenpurcell
We still have some time with the old lawyer but the new one is soo much a better value. He does stuff!

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[7/31/2020 12:43 PM] scott_blevins
The new lawyer is better, absolutely.


[7/31/2020 12:47 PM] skyspook
So wait, a lawyer is better when they do stuff? That's... sensible I suppose.


[7/31/2020 12:49 PM] scott_blevins
It’s been a low bar

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[7/31/2020 12:49 PM] scott_blevins
Pun intended


[7/31/2020 12:50 PM] skyspook
Bring your puns back to the designated pun channel, sir.


[7/31/2020 12:50 PM] scott_blevins
I’m a dad.  I exercise the right to pun at will

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[7/31/2020 12:51 PM] skyspook
Ah, excuse me. I didn't realize you had a license

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[8/1/2020 9:32 PM] apparently_weird
Negligence on your part at fully researching the validity of a pun license has no bearing on the usage of puns. If the pun fits... you must admit...

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[8/6/2020 10:06 AM] nullinterface
https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/are-we-turning-into-a-paid-gig-shop/73791/20

someone's got to be ***that guy*** every time, might as well be me


[8/6/2020 10:29 AM] skyspook
Ayup. I've been having one on one conversations about inurement. It can be a confusing topic, and there may be wiggle room there. It has to be approached cautiously though.


[8/6/2020 10:29 AM] skyspook
I'm by no means an expert. But I also don't want to get on the IRS's bad side.


[8/6/2020 10:35 AM] nullinterface
I'm no expert either, thus my approach to most things governance being *abundance of caution*


[8/6/2020 12:14 PM] nullinterface
is QAnon big on Hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19, thus its staying power as a cultural trope despite the  medical community having moved on to other treatments?


[8/6/2020 12:17 PM] canibalcrab
Yeah


[8/6/2020 1:20 PM] hon1nbo
people also learned about pre-print publishers like medrxiv


[8/6/2020 1:20 PM] hon1nbo
not understanding how they work


[8/6/2020 1:20 PM] hon1nbo
and should not be cited as sources in their work


[8/6/2020 3:16 PM] toenolla
I hadn't seen the name medrxiv before today, I'm glad you pointed it out. 🙂


[8/12/2020 2:53 PM] scott_blevins
> is QAnon big on Hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19, thus its staying power as a cultural trope despite the  medical community having moved on to other treatments?
@ESmith  

As someone who took 14 days of that stuff, all I can tell ya is that I’m not happy about the 200+ day elimination half life of it.


[8/12/2020 2:53 PM] scott_blevins
Turns out, it doesn’t work on Pertussis.  Who knew?!  🙄


[8/12/2020 2:54 PM] scott_blevins
(To clarify...it’s elimination process will require 200+ days to clear from my body).


[8/12/2020 2:57 PM] canibalcrab
Boo


[8/12/2020 2:57 PM] canibalcrab
That mean you get side effects for that long?


[8/12/2020 2:57 PM] nullinterface
side effects?  Like making the consumer tell dad jokes incessantly?


[8/12/2020 2:58 PM] canibalcrab
That was a symptom before the hcq


[8/12/2020 4:10 PM] scott_blevins
True


[8/12/2020 4:12 PM] scott_blevins
Not sure about the side effects.  If they exist, they are not overtly noticeable. My doc. assures me I wasn’t on it at a high enough dose...for long enough...to cause concern.


[9/14/2020 10:45 AM] james_david_vance
I'm a fan of consensual and informed interactions. I think having a dedicated area for political discussion on the official forum would be a good idea, that way those who don't consent to reading political posts don't have to in order to use the forum. I'm not sure Discourse supports this though. I think separating political discussion is a good medium between nonconsensually removing all political posts and having people nonconsensually read political posts.

So my proposed solution is to have a separate area for politics if that can be done on Talk. If it can't be done, I'd be in favor of moving to different software.


[9/14/2020 11:03 AM] james_david_vance
> It's def futile to have a community sans politics, however it's not censorship to ban discussion from Talk or Discord.
@NobleGoblin

Do you think it's a use a force? Do you think it limits people's freedom? Do you think there are any negatives about removing people's posts without their consent?


[9/14/2020 11:08 AM] noble_goblin
We are a non-profit that has zero to do with Politics.


[9/14/2020 11:09 AM] noble_goblin
If you want political discussion, have it elsewhere. there is a time and place for everything. 

DMS is a community, yes. 
We have various conversations in the building. However, that is different from giving it a dedicated space for discussion which could be construed as encouraging it.

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[9/14/2020 11:10 AM] noble_goblin
We don't have a separate place for religious talks. I would feel the same way if someone was on Talk inviting people to church or trying to start a religious debate on Talk.


[9/14/2020 11:11 AM] noble_goblin
Letting people post threads is giving them a platform which can look negatively on us. It could come off as encouraging it, or supporting it. It's not our place to give platforms to things that have nothing to do with our Org.


[9/14/2020 11:12 AM] noble_goblin
To specifically answer your questions-


[9/14/2020 11:13 AM] noble_goblin
1) Not worded coherently. Please re-ask.
2) No it does not. We are a private entity. We get to dictate our standards.
3) Nope. We remove trolls all the time.


[9/14/2020 11:14 AM] james_david_vance
> If you want political discussion, have it elsewhere. there is a time and place for everything. 
> 
> DMS is a community, yes. 
> We have various conversations in the building. However, that is different from giving it a dedicated space for discussion which could be construed as encouraging it.
@NobleGoblin

Is there a specific law you've read that you think implies that having a dedicated space on Talk for political discussion could make us lose our nonprofit status or have other negative legal ramifications? If so, I'd like to see what your argument is based on that text.


[9/14/2020 11:18 AM] james_david_vance
> 1) Not worded coherently. Please re-ask.
Do you think removing all political posts is a use of force? 
> 2) No it does not. We are a private entity. We get to dictate our standards.
So it doesn't limit people's ability to speak freely? To be clear, I'm not talking about the 1st amendment, I'm talking about people's ability to speak freely, or without restriction. 

The fact that we're a private entity does not imply that removing all political posts does not limit people's ability to speak freely. 
> 3) Nope. We remove trolls all the time.
Removing trolls is a specific case, what I'm talking about is removing all political posts without the posters' consent. 
@NobleGoblin


[9/14/2020 11:21 AM] adam1334
1) F=M*A - I don't think that there is any Mass, so nope.

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[9/14/2020 11:21 AM] adam1334
2) People can speak freely, just not in a private forum


[9/14/2020 11:22 AM] adam1334
3) I certainly define political speech on Talk as trolls.


[9/14/2020 11:22 AM] james_david_vance
> 2) People can speak freely, just not in a private forum
@Adam
I'm in a few private forums wherein I can speak freely.


[9/14/2020 11:22 AM] adam1334
I hope you enjoy posting there?


[9/14/2020 11:22 AM] adam1334
There are rules to soceiety.


[9/14/2020 11:23 AM] noble_goblin
I do not think we would lose our nonprofit status, however you have to think about how it would affect our community as a whole. 

I do not think that removing political posts is a use of force. How would it be?

It limits peoples ability to bring up emotionally charged conversations in a diverse community where people already bicker about lesser things. The first amendment means you can say what you want, it doesn't mean your words can't be removed though. You could argue hate speech should be allowed at that point.


[9/14/2020 11:23 AM] Deleted User
So you think that someone posting a cool event that happens to be put on as a political fundraiser is political speech?


[9/14/2020 11:23 AM] noble_goblin
I'm glad you have private forums where you can speak freely. Not everywhere can be a "safe space"


[9/14/2020 11:24 AM] noble_goblin
You can claim what you want, but yes. It looks as if a person is passively soliciting.


[9/14/2020 11:24 AM] james_david_vance
> 3) I certainly define political speech on Talk as trolls.
@Adam I interpret this as you claiming that all political posts on Talk are made with the intent to trigger a negative response in the reader. Is that correct?


[9/14/2020 11:24 AM] Deleted User
Art and life are political


[9/14/2020 11:24 AM] Deleted User
This is your own political bias triggering you


[9/14/2020 11:24 AM] noble_goblin
I don't care what your feelings or intentions were, perception and posession is 9/10 of the law.


[9/14/2020 11:24 AM] noble_goblin
are*


[9/14/2020 11:25 AM] noble_goblin
I have not even disclosed what my political stance is.


[9/14/2020 11:25 AM] noble_goblin
So why are you assuming bias? I would feel the same if it had been Republican, Independent, etc.


[9/14/2020 11:25 AM] Deleted User
Oh you have


[9/14/2020 11:25 AM] james_david_vance
> I hope you enjoy posting there?
@Adam I do :)


[9/14/2020 11:25 AM] noble_goblin
Lets see some proof.


[9/14/2020 11:28 AM] noble_goblin
I'll wait why you comb through my Talk history.


[9/14/2020 11:35 AM] james_david_vance
> I do not think we would lose our nonprofit status, however you have to think about how it would affect our community as a whole. 
> 
> I do not think that removing political posts is a use of force. How would it be?
> 
> It limits peoples ability to bring up emotionally charged conversations in a diverse community where people already bicker about lesser things. The first amendment means you can say what you want, it doesn't mean your words can't be removed though. You could argue hate speech should be allowed at that point.
@NobleGoblin
I think that DMS should be able to remove all political posts in the sense that I don't think that should be illegal. And I don't think it is illegal under the first amendment. I don't think this is a first amendment issue. I think that while it shouldn't be illegal for us to remove all political posts, I think that we shouldn't. I think having a separate space for political speech is a better medium according to my values.

I think removing all political posts is a use of force. I think it's forcing people to avoid politics on Talk. This is really just semantics though, I may have a different definition of force than you. I'd be happy to substitute 'use of force' with 'restriction' or 'limitation of freedom'


[9/14/2020 11:37 AM] adam1334
We do have a separate space for political talk.  You mentioned that you liked posting there already.

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[9/14/2020 11:38 AM] james_david_vance
> I'm glad you have private forums where you can speak freely. Not everywhere can be a "safe space"
@NobleGoblin Agreed. I dislike safe spaces where the safety is from particular opinions or topics. I'm part of a group where just about the only rule is that you don't attack people, only arguments. I've gotten a lot of value out of it that I wouldn't have if we limited it by topic.


[9/14/2020 11:44 AM] james_david_vance
> We do have a separate space for political talk.  You mentioned that you liked posting there already.
@Adam I don't see how it's an alternative to Talk. It does exist, but it serves DMS members who want to talk politics as much as the r/PoliticalDiscussion subreddit. 
I think this gets at a core question that hasn't been brought up yet: what is the purpose of the the official forum? Is it only for things directly related to DMS? As it currently stands, the off-topic category suggests otherwise.


[9/14/2020 11:44 AM] noble_goblin
Give me a few to reply, at work


[9/14/2020 11:50 AM] adam1334
Just because something is generically inclusive, does not mean that it is ALL inclusive.


[9/14/2020 11:52 AM] adam1334
Religious proselytizing, political topics and things of an illegal nature do not belong as topics on Talk.


[9/14/2020 12:01 PM] noble_goblin
@DJ Vance H'okay. Thank you for your patience. 

This becomes one of those slippery slope deals a la "If You Give a Mouse a Cookie." 

It's not illegal for us to remove them. I think they should be removed for the good of the whole, regardless of my affiliations or beliefs. 

"Restriction" is a good word choice. It is restriction. Again, it falls under being better for the whole in my opinion.


[9/14/2020 12:03 PM] noble_goblin
And again, I'm glad you have a place like that @DJ Vance  I just don't believe DMS is that place. We are a MAKERspace not a political space. We have rules that limit what we can and cannot do, we have banned people from the space for their words. 

Bringing in politics, ESPECIALLY in the current climate, will likely only further polarize the members and end up causing more harm. 

I'm not saying we should ban speech at the space, but it has no place on Talk.


[9/14/2020 12:03 PM] noble_goblin
@Deleted User Still waiting for you to prove my political affiliation btw.


[9/14/2020 12:04 PM] noble_goblin
Brb- back to work for a few. I'm still here and interested in more imput.


[9/14/2020 12:04 PM] Deleted User
well you're clearly fascist

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[9/14/2020 12:04 PM] noble_goblin
How so?


[9/14/2020 12:04 PM] Deleted User
left or right leaning i'm not entirely certain


[9/14/2020 12:05 PM] noble_goblin
@Deleted User How so? Defend your opinion of me.


[9/14/2020 12:06 PM] Deleted User
your statements 2 lines above?


[9/14/2020 12:12 PM] noble_goblin
Eluciate. Also, Fascists are by definition on the far-right.


[9/14/2020 12:12 PM] noble_goblin
Elucidate*


[9/14/2020 12:12 PM] noble_goblin
What about my statements labels me as a Fascist @Deleted User


[9/14/2020 12:15 PM] adam1334
Here's a picture of Hitler on a sled, and you said something about a slippery slope.  My ruling?  Confirmed.  You're a Nazi.

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[9/14/2020 12:16 PM] Deleted User
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_fascism

{Embed}
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_fascism
Left-wing fascism
Left-wing fascism and left fascism are sociological and philosophical terms used to categorize tendencies in left-wing politics otherwise commonly attributed to the ideology of fascism. Fascism has historically been considered a far-right ideology.The term was formulated as a ...


[9/14/2020 12:16 PM] noble_goblin
@Deleted User  Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, as well as strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.

Here's the definition from Wiki if you want to use it. I'm going back to work for a bit.


[9/14/2020 12:16 PM] Deleted User
ooh i got wiki first i win

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[9/14/2020 12:17 PM] noble_goblin
@Deleted User Thank you for that! Let me read it real quick.


[9/14/2020 12:17 PM] james_david_vance
I think the word you guys are looking for is authoritarianism


[9/14/2020 12:17 PM] noble_goblin
Relevant part: Historian Richard Wolin has used the term "left fascism" in arguing that some European intellectuals have been infatuated with post-modernist or anti-Enlightenment theories, opening up the opportunity for cult-like, irrational, anti-democratic positions that combine characteristics of the left with those of fascism.


[9/14/2020 12:18 PM] noble_goblin
Not sure how either count me as a Fascist of any sort. I am HIGHLY amused though as I've never been called one before


[9/14/2020 12:19 PM] noble_goblin
(Then again I am in the military and actually on orders now so if you want to finagle that into Ultra-nationalism that's your stretch to make.)


[9/14/2020 12:20 PM] Deleted User
if you prefer you can be authoritarian


[9/14/2020 12:20 PM] james_david_vance
> And again, I'm glad you have a place like that @DJ Vance  I just don't believe DMS is that place. We are a MAKERspace not a political space. We have rules that limit what we can and cannot do, we have banned people from the space for their words. 
> 
> Bringing in politics, ESPECIALLY in the current climate, will likely only further polarize the members and end up causing more harm. 
> 
> I'm not saying we should ban speech at the space, but it has no place on Talk.
@NobleGoblin

I'm not advocating for bringing in politics. I'm advocating for pushing it out.

Why not ban it at the space? Personally, I don't think it's my business what consenting people talk about at the space. And I don't think it's my business what consenting people talk about on Talk.


[9/14/2020 12:21 PM] Deleted User
or illiberal - you'll probably take that as a compliment


[9/14/2020 12:24 PM] james_david_vance
> Just because something is generically inclusive, does not mean that it is ALL inclusive.
@Adam Agreed. But If the rule is that X does not have to do with making therefore X should not be on our official forum at all, even in a segregated place, I don't think that's compatible with having a category specifically for off-topic posts.


[9/14/2020 12:25 PM] james_david_vance
> Religious proselytizing, political topics and things of an illegal nature do not belong as topics on Talk.
@Adam So what is the rule? What should be allowed on our official forums and what should not be, even in a separate place?


[9/14/2020 12:26 PM] Deleted User
so can i post this on talk? it's Making...

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[9/14/2020 12:28 PM] Deleted User
maybe remake this as a 10x10?

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https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/755117741962297535/trumpface_DICKFACE08-720x1276.png?ex=67b96073&is=67b80ef3&hm=d1a8d627c70ba4ac1c4a374090f0d4972d3ea27c37bb89335b75e24a110aa7a0&


[9/14/2020 12:29 PM] themitch22
I would say talk is publicly searchable. Maybe it's more a PR issue than us discussing politics?


[9/14/2020 12:29 PM] adam1334
> @Adam So what is the rule? What should be allowed on our official forums and what should not be, even in a separate place?
@DJ Vance  I'll add people who are clearly trolling, per the opinion of the moderaton team.


[9/14/2020 12:30 PM] james_david_vance
> @DJ Vance  I'll add people who are clearly trolling, per the opinion of the moderaton team.
@Adam
? add people to what? I don't see how that answers my question


[9/14/2020 12:31 PM] adam1334
@gramniculus - Are you making them or posting them as a political statement?   I have no particular issue with either image, but as a troll post, I'd personally flag it.


[9/14/2020 12:31 PM] james_david_vance
I wouldn't. I'd laugh and move on


[9/14/2020 12:32 PM] adam1334
Clearly there is one person who has anger issues on Talk (the guy who responded to the thread being discussed here) who came back with explicatives and threatening tone.


[9/14/2020 12:32 PM] james_david_vance
I think the real issue is that we need software that allows users to choose what kinds of posts they want to see


[9/14/2020 12:33 PM] james_david_vance
That way when someone tells someone to fuck off, they can fuck off without leaving Talk entirely


[9/14/2020 12:33 PM] adam1334
If he has a question about why the prints are failing, I'd not flag.


[9/14/2020 12:34 PM] adam1334
But as a unqualified image, the question is WHY are they posting it.


[9/14/2020 12:36 PM] Deleted User
people share their art on Talk all the time


[9/14/2020 12:39 PM] adam1334
Are those YOUR art?


[9/14/2020 12:40 PM] adam1334
Or are you a troll?


[9/14/2020 12:40 PM] noble_goblin
Back. Let me catch up.


[9/14/2020 12:40 PM] adam1334
(not specifically you, but the individual who would post such things?)


[9/14/2020 12:42 PM] noble_goblin
@DJ Vance I don't think banning voice chat at the space is the same as moderating Talk. People have casual conversations about everything from A-Z at the space but we don't allow certain conversations on talk as it is. (i.e. Adult conversations)

@Deleted User I would prefer you not assume, but you already have so you might as well defend your stance. Political dildos don't phase me regardless of if it is Trump or Mother Teresa or Obama. Nice try though.


[9/14/2020 12:43 PM] Deleted User
it's a hypothetical


[9/14/2020 12:43 PM] Deleted User
do you question the motivation of every project post?


[9/14/2020 12:43 PM] Deleted User
or only those that go against your politics?


[9/14/2020 12:43 PM] adam1334
Not all, just the ones that are clearly political in nature.


[9/14/2020 12:43 PM] Deleted User
so how much politics is too much?


[9/14/2020 12:44 PM] noble_goblin
I'm with Adam @Deleted User  Art is a bit different than found images. One is sharing something YOU created and there is value in that unless it is blatantly hate speech. 

Found images are purposefully trying to elicit a reaction


[9/14/2020 12:44 PM] Deleted User
well @NobleGoblin you just said the opposite of your BF


[9/14/2020 12:44 PM] Deleted User
he has a problem with them but you aren't fazed by political dildos


[9/14/2020 12:44 PM] noble_goblin
Fiance*


[9/14/2020 12:44 PM] noble_goblin
We don't have to agree on everything.


[9/14/2020 12:44 PM] Deleted User
but you just said you're with him


[9/14/2020 12:44 PM] Deleted User
which is it?


[9/14/2020 12:45 PM] noble_goblin
@Deleted User We are not the same person. We are adults who can converse about things we disagree on. 

I agree with parts of his statements. Your point?


[9/14/2020 12:45 PM] Deleted User
this tag teaming sure is fun


[9/14/2020 12:45 PM] noble_goblin
@Deleted User We are not even in the same state much less the same room. This is not tag teaming


[9/14/2020 12:46 PM] Deleted User
ok so suppose I create an original trump dildo model and print it


[9/14/2020 12:46 PM] noble_goblin
You still have not clarified why you consider me a Fascist/Authoritarian.


[9/14/2020 12:46 PM] Deleted User
and I want to share photos on talk because it's cool and also fuck trump


[9/14/2020 12:46 PM] Deleted User
ok or not?


[9/14/2020 12:46 PM] noble_goblin
Post it on talk under show and tell.


[9/14/2020 12:46 PM] Deleted User
even though it's political?


[9/14/2020 12:46 PM] noble_goblin
Don't make a whole thread about it


[9/14/2020 12:47 PM] noble_goblin
Don't try and elicit a political conversation.


[9/14/2020 12:47 PM] Deleted User
but if Marlow wants to open a thread about new dollhouse furniture is that ok?


[9/14/2020 12:47 PM] noble_goblin
You can talk about how something is constructed, how it's made, etc WITHOUT talking about furniture.


[9/14/2020 12:47 PM] noble_goblin
Yup. Because her dollhouse is not clearly advocating a political agenda.


[9/14/2020 12:47 PM] Deleted User
ok so projects have to go in show and tell thread


[9/14/2020 12:47 PM] Deleted User
but only if they're political


[9/14/2020 12:48 PM] Deleted User
these rules make a lot of sense


[9/14/2020 12:48 PM] noble_goblin
My -opinions- might not be perfect. I'll grant that. One is a BLATANT attempt at eliciting political discussion and trying to get reactions


[9/14/2020 12:48 PM] noble_goblin
The other is dollhouse furniture.


[9/14/2020 12:48 PM] adam1334
The amount of politics is dependent upon the benefit to DMS.  If it's your art, then please show it off.  If you have aquestion about whether it's better to use black or white 3d Printed material for your Trump dildos, that's fair as far as I'm concerned.  If you want to know whether they'll fall apart inside of a person because they are 3D printed?  Go at it.


[9/14/2020 12:48 PM] Deleted User
ok, so I think it's clear you haven't put thought into this


[9/14/2020 12:48 PM] Deleted User
and these are just gut reactions


[9/14/2020 12:49 PM] adam1334
You're right.  I don't exactly lie awake trying to figure out how to argue with trolls.


[9/14/2020 12:49 PM] noble_goblin
@Deleted User No, I have thought about it today as we have been discussing it, but I dare say it's not gut reaction.


[9/14/2020 12:50 PM] Deleted User
coming from further south?


[9/14/2020 12:50 PM] noble_goblin
?


[9/14/2020 12:50 PM] noble_goblin
As if am I from further south?


[9/14/2020 12:50 PM] Deleted User
nah bad attempt at a joke


[9/14/2020 12:50 PM] noble_goblin
Sorry I didn't get it.


[9/14/2020 12:51 PM] adam1334
He's trying to emulate Trumpian speech.


[9/14/2020 12:51 PM] adam1334
"bleeding out of the ears or other places"


[9/14/2020 12:51 PM] Deleted User
actual non-gender specific


[9/14/2020 12:51 PM] adam1334
but I'm guessing he thinks that because I haven't got a full treatisie on it that it's out of my ass


[9/14/2020 12:51 PM] Deleted User
bingo


[9/14/2020 12:52 PM] noble_goblin
Must have missed that clip.'


[9/14/2020 12:52 PM] adam1334
even tho you've not responded to any of my actual statements


[9/14/2020 12:52 PM] adam1334
it's pretty clear


[9/14/2020 12:52 PM] noble_goblin
This has been riveting but I am getting off work and will be AFK for a bit.


[9/14/2020 12:52 PM] james_david_vance
> even tho you've not responded to any of my actual statements
@Adam I know how you feel. I'm still waiting for the legal argument to be made.


[9/14/2020 12:52 PM] adam1334
Troll -GTFO  Question or legit reason - Post away.


[9/14/2020 12:52 PM] Deleted User
ok, well I guess my summary is I think you should not judge people's interests by whether they're political


[9/14/2020 12:53 PM] adam1334
There are no LEGAL reasons as far as I'm aware.


[9/14/2020 12:53 PM] noble_goblin
Oooh that's hot coming from someone who called a stranger a Fascist


[9/14/2020 12:53 PM] Deleted User
if you want to restrict people's speech that's what you are


[9/14/2020 12:53 PM] Deleted User
whether you think that's better for the "community" or not


[9/14/2020 12:53 PM] james_david_vance
Who is hurt by consenting people talking politics on our official forum?


[9/14/2020 12:53 PM] Deleted User
and yes I know it's not a first amendment issue


[9/14/2020 12:53 PM] Deleted User
it's still an ugly goal


[9/14/2020 12:54 PM] adam1334
#relevantXKCD is needed here.


[9/14/2020 12:54 PM] noble_goblin
That's not how that works but ok. I also support businesses being able to refuse service whenever they want.


[9/14/2020 12:54 PM] noble_goblin
anyway, I'm not paid overtime. Bye.


[9/14/2020 12:54 PM] hon1nbo
we're a private business, we can say what goes on the forum. It leads to nothing but toxic arguments and doesn't provide any benefit. There are better venues for discussing politics

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[9/14/2020 12:54 PM] hon1nbo
we're a makerspace; that venue isn't us


[9/14/2020 12:54 PM] james_david_vance
> That's not how that works but ok. I also support businesses being able to refuse service whenever they want.
@NobleGoblin I do too. Do you understand the different between that and supporting businesses whenever they refuse service?


[9/14/2020 12:55 PM] james_david_vance
ugh


[9/14/2020 12:55 PM] james_david_vance
> we're a private business, we can say what goes on the forum. It leads to nothing but toxic arguments and doesn't provide any benefit. There are better venues for discussing politics
@hon1nbo (k/j/t) exsilium how nice of you to decide that for everyone else


[9/14/2020 12:55 PM] adam1334
> Who is hurt by consenting people talking politics on our official forum?
@DJ Vance Clearly DMS has had issues with talk being labeled "toxic" and driving people away.  That's bad for business.


[9/14/2020 12:55 PM] hon1nbo
as the person in charge of the moderation where we get all the complaints


[9/14/2020 12:55 PM] james_david_vance
> @DJ Vance Clearly DMS has had issues with talk being labeled "toxic" and driving people away.  That's bad for business.
@Adam sweeping generalization fallacy


[9/14/2020 12:55 PM] hon1nbo
yes that is something to decide for you


[9/14/2020 12:55 PM] james_david_vance
or irrelevant, one of the two


[9/14/2020 12:55 PM] Deleted User
or maybe you should get rid of the people calling it toxic


[9/14/2020 12:56 PM] hon1nbo
when new members are afraid to ask questions on talk because arguments go off the rails we have a problem

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[9/14/2020 12:56 PM] Deleted User
that sounds like a PR issue


[9/14/2020 12:56 PM] hon1nbo
and this is how you solve PR issues


[9/14/2020 12:56 PM] hon1nbo
by putting the foot down on things that bring down our community

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[9/14/2020 12:56 PM] hon1nbo
without contributing to it


[9/14/2020 12:56 PM] hon1nbo
we're not a political organisation


[9/14/2020 12:56 PM] Deleted User
like people denigrating a DMS resource for no reason?


[9/14/2020 12:56 PM] hon1nbo
we're a damn makerspace


[9/14/2020 12:56 PM] adam1334
> or maybe you should get rid of the people calling it toxic
@Deleted User That sounds like facism to me.


[9/14/2020 12:56 PM] james_david_vance
> yes that is something to decide for you
@hon1nbo (k/j/t) exsilium you get to, you should be able to, and yet you shouldn't. Really not that hard to understand.


[9/14/2020 12:57 PM] Deleted User
sure but at least the trains will run on time


[9/14/2020 12:57 PM] james_david_vance
> by putting the foot down on things that bring down our community
@hon1nbo (k/j/t) exsilium having a separate space for political speech brings down your community? hmm ok


[9/14/2020 12:57 PM] hon1nbo
you have a right to speech in the US, but not the right to a platform. That is a very big difference. Don't like it? Go try starting a political argument inside a best buy and see what they do.

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[9/14/2020 12:58 PM] hon1nbo
see how management, the people around you, and the police interpret it


[9/14/2020 12:58 PM] hon1nbo
it's just not the right venue


[9/14/2020 12:58 PM] james_david_vance
> you have a right to speech in the US, but not the right to a platform. That is a very big difference. Don't like it? Go try starting a political argument inside a best buy and see what they do.
@hon1nbo (k/j/t) exsilium Read my previous messages, this is not a 1st amendment issue.


[9/14/2020 12:58 PM] hon1nbo
there are plenty of discussion boards and other areas for the purpose


[9/14/2020 12:58 PM] hon1nbo
yet you call it facism, whatever


[9/14/2020 12:58 PM] james_david_vance
there's a lack of understanding opposing viewpoints going on here


[9/14/2020 12:58 PM] hon1nbo
you want to argue for the sake of arguing, this is exactly the kind of crap we're trying to avoid


[9/14/2020 12:58 PM] james_david_vance
makes senss


[9/14/2020 12:58 PM] Deleted User
do you think if you and your inlaws started having a political argument inside best buy (no raised voices, fistfight etc), that the police would be called?


[9/14/2020 12:59 PM] hon1nbo
the problem is that's assuming people stay civil


[9/14/2020 12:59 PM] james_david_vance
> you want to argue for the sake of arguing, this is exactly the kind of crap we're trying to avoid
@hon1nbo (k/j/t) exsilium  It seems you don't understand what I'm saying.


[9/14/2020 12:59 PM] hon1nbo
the politics threads have a history of nothing civil on talk

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[9/14/2020 12:59 PM] Deleted User
they're just words


[9/14/2020 12:59 PM] hon1nbo
they don't contribute to our mission, they don't benefit our community, there are better places for it

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[9/14/2020 12:59 PM] james_david_vance
> the politics threads have a history of nothing civil on talk
@hon1nbo (k/j/t) exsilium and therefore separating it out to a place where only consenting people go is a bad idea? I don't follow


[9/14/2020 1:00 PM] hon1nbo
```Get your panties out of a twist. Sorry your coochie got hurt.

I specifically disavowed partisanship. This was a link to an event. I PROMOTED AN EVENT YOU STUPID FUCK.```


[9/14/2020 1:00 PM] hon1nbo
how does the above contribute?


[9/14/2020 1:00 PM] hon1nbo
to our community


[9/14/2020 1:00 PM] Deleted User
seems like the moderators fucked the community there


[9/14/2020 1:00 PM] hon1nbo
this is the kind of shit that politics starts


[9/14/2020 1:00 PM] Deleted User
now you have a pissed member


[9/14/2020 1:00 PM] hon1nbo
@DJ Vance management overhead


[9/14/2020 1:00 PM] hon1nbo
and even then it's not a free-for-all if such a place were allowed


[9/14/2020 1:00 PM] hon1nbo
which means it has to be moderated anyway


[9/14/2020 1:00 PM] hon1nbo
which means that now we have people that complain about posts being "hidden" because they don't get it


[9/14/2020 1:01 PM] hon1nbo
it was tried


[9/14/2020 1:01 PM] hon1nbo
it failed to work in practice


[9/14/2020 1:01 PM] Deleted User
also pretty uncool sharing what presumably was a private message


[9/14/2020 1:01 PM] hon1nbo
that wasn't


[9/14/2020 1:01 PM] hon1nbo
that was posted publicly on talk


[9/14/2020 1:01 PM] Deleted User
ah nm then sorry


[9/14/2020 1:01 PM] hon1nbo
this is the BS you are spewing right now. You just want to argue


[9/14/2020 1:01 PM] hon1nbo
with no understanding on how to run a community


[9/14/2020 1:01 PM] hon1nbo
and making assumptions about those you are arguing wtih

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[9/14/2020 1:01 PM] james_david_vance
> how does the above contribute?
@hon1nbo (k/j/t) exsilium It seems you don't understand what I'm saying. Read my previous messages.


[9/14/2020 1:01 PM] hon1nbo
leave it to the people who deal with all the complaints on a regular basis


[9/14/2020 1:02 PM] hon1nbo
I do raffi


[9/14/2020 1:02 PM] hon1nbo
like I said, we tried that area on talk before


[9/14/2020 1:02 PM] hon1nbo
it did not work out


[9/14/2020 1:02 PM] james_david_vance
Tall supports having a separate area? When was this tried? What didn't work?


[9/14/2020 1:03 PM] hon1nbo
people treat it like a free for all. "It's opt-in so it must be ok" is the mentality that is a concern. It still has to be moderated, but the shit that spews gets worse when people think no one cares. We still have to have decorum of some sort.


[9/14/2020 1:03 PM] hon1nbo
it was the "debates" category for heated arguments


[9/14/2020 1:04 PM] hon1nbo
the first course of action before we decided on this route was whether or not to revive it, but all the discussions with those that handled it previously came to the same conclusion that it simply is not worth it


[9/14/2020 1:04 PM] hon1nbo
there are better places for the various heated topics, with moderators that are far more involved and available, and those topics are relevant to those communities


[9/14/2020 1:04 PM] hon1nbo
this is none of those, and trying to say "make it so" simply isn't enough to keep things sane


[9/14/2020 1:05 PM] hon1nbo
for example, let's say that someone starts a politics thread. It ends up being contentious. That member did not want to be in the opt-in category. They are then forced into it with that thread, or they're not able to discuss the thread at all anymore? What about the fact they now deal with all the other crap in that category


[9/14/2020 1:05 PM] hon1nbo
it's easy to make a thread not realising how quick things escalate.


[9/14/2020 1:06 PM] hon1nbo
before you know it half the general membership has ended up in the "isolated" area simply because they didn't realise how touchy a topic can get. Then you have to make more isolated areas to segregate out whatever got them there and not ruin the whole purpose, but then the process repeats


[9/14/2020 1:06 PM] hon1nbo
it's not an easy solution


[9/14/2020 1:26 PM] noble_goblin
@hon1nbo (k/j/t) exsilium well said.


[9/14/2020 3:10 PM] toenolla
Honestly, I think DMS as a community is perfectly capable of having political discussions (that is, discussions about hot-button issues or governance in general) so long as people follow the general forum rules.  We've had quite a few threads about political topics that didn't end up as total trash fires.  We just have to make sure people don't use the topic of discussion as an excuse to be abusive jerks.


[9/14/2020 3:12 PM] noble_goblin
@Toenolla Before this election I might have been inclined to agree. My concern is the political climate as a whole is very volatile and I wouldn’t want to risk DMS having more drama or issues than it already has this year.


[9/14/2020 3:14 PM] toenolla
Personally, I think the problem with this election cycle was that people DID use it as an excuse.  And we banned them for it.


[9/14/2020 3:28 PM] toenolla
(Also, whether we can discuss politics and whether we can endorse candidates/parties are different questions.)


[9/14/2020 4:10 PM] aceat64
@Deleted User are you even a member? I don't see anyone with that username on the forums


[9/14/2020 4:14 PM] aceat64
the only search results online with a hit for your username is a review on Best Buy's website 13 years ago, you didn't even bother to set a profile picture, you look like a sock puppet account


[9/14/2020 4:14 PM] aceat64
(hilarious aside, that review was marked as unhelpful)


[9/14/2020 4:15 PM] Deleted User
Lol thanks for stalking I guess


[9/14/2020 4:16 PM] aceat64
you're a troll and probably a banned member I bet


[9/14/2020 4:16 PM] Deleted User
I'd think you wouldn't gatekeep so much considering your recent membership status


[9/14/2020 4:17 PM] aceat64
lol what?


[9/14/2020 4:17 PM] canibalcrab
You mean a ban by a board member who was banned for stealing from the dms?


[9/14/2020 4:18 PM] canibalcrab
Who banned him to keep him quiet?


[9/14/2020 4:18 PM] aceat64
because I discovered and investigated that stealing too 🙂


[9/14/2020 4:18 PM] aceat64
yeah, I'm real ashamed of that


[9/14/2020 4:18 PM] Deleted User
Tomato 🍅

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[9/14/2020 4:18 PM] aceat64
what a terrible person I must be


[9/14/2020 4:21 PM] canibalcrab
He's very toggled that a post got removed.


[9/14/2020 4:21 PM] Deleted User
Hey I'm clearly not the only one


[9/14/2020 4:22 PM] Deleted User
DMS seems to have a pretty entrenched culture of censorship


[9/14/2020 4:22 PM] canibalcrab
Correction. Closed but still visable


[9/14/2020 4:22 PM] aceat64
how do we know? maybe you're raffi's sock puppet lol


[9/14/2020 4:22 PM] Deleted User
You can see the quote Jim posted earlier


[9/14/2020 4:22 PM] canibalcrab
He's to angry and irrational for raffi


[9/14/2020 4:23 PM] aceat64
true


[9/14/2020 4:23 PM] hon1nbo
and raffi doesn't mind posting on their own account here


[9/14/2020 4:23 PM] aceat64
yeah, I don't think raffi is the kind to sock puppet tbh


[9/14/2020 4:23 PM] hon1nbo
whoever it is blocked me which I find hilarious, but disappointing I can't send the Sweet Potato emoji above


[9/14/2020 4:23 PM] aceat64
lol


[9/14/2020 4:23 PM] aceat64
probably the guy you quoted then


[9/14/2020 4:23 PM] hon1nbo
yeah Raffi and I disagree about a lot but he's upfront and open about everything


[9/14/2020 4:24 PM] aceat64
because why would some random no-profile-picture account care to block you?


[9/14/2020 4:24 PM] hon1nbo
maybe? doubt it honestly.


[9/14/2020 4:24 PM] hon1nbo
as for the quote earlier you mean the one from talk?


[9/14/2020 4:24 PM] Deleted User
Here yam away


[9/14/2020 4:24 PM] hon1nbo
is that you? I'm kinda surprised honestly if it is


[9/14/2020 4:25 PM] hon1nbo
hey actually unblocked. fun


[9/14/2020 4:25 PM] aceat64
> complains about censorship, blocks Jim for no apparent reason

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[9/14/2020 4:25 PM] aceat64
:think:


[9/14/2020 4:25 PM] canibalcrab
Maybe he really just likes princess bride that much, and it's not about politics. But he's ashamed of liking a movie that much


[9/14/2020 4:25 PM] aceat64
it's a good movie though


[9/14/2020 4:26 PM] canibalcrab
No one ever pitched it for movie night tho


[9/14/2020 4:28 PM] aceat64
so I found that thread (I hadn't read it), it actually _would_ be problematic for us


[9/14/2020 4:28 PM] aceat64
because the person wanted to use DMS resources to raise funds for a political party


[9/14/2020 4:29 PM] aceat64
which as a 501c3 we can't do


[9/14/2020 4:29 PM] canibalcrab
I find the post interesting. Matt mentioned not wanting to support either party but the link itself required donations to a party to participate


[9/14/2020 4:29 PM] hon1nbo
eh, it's not likely to actually be a problem


[9/14/2020 4:29 PM] hon1nbo
the concern is there but it's not an official thing


[9/14/2020 4:29 PM] aceat64
probably not, but it's clear why it wasn't allowed


[9/14/2020 4:29 PM] hon1nbo
it's not a director telling people in their capacity to go do something


[9/14/2020 4:29 PM] hon1nbo
actually that's not what got the thread closed


[9/14/2020 4:29 PM] aceat64
it's too far over the "line" of political activity to risk it


[9/14/2020 4:29 PM] hon1nbo
the post that did was deleted


[9/14/2020 4:30 PM] canibalcrab
Oh really


[9/14/2020 4:31 PM] hon1nbo
though originally it would have been left, a moderator accidentally hit the "act" button instead of the ignore button after putting in a flag. Since the Act button takes away the posters ability to correct the post to avoid the flag, and currently that person is being a chance to correct the behaviour, it was left locked as-is rather than have that nasty-ass post be the thing the person left off on


[9/14/2020 4:31 PM] hon1nbo
they've already reached out and apologized for the matter


[9/14/2020 4:31 PM] hon1nbo
for some perspective, that quote section I pasted above was not even *half* of what was in that post


[9/14/2020 4:31 PM] canibalcrab
That makes more sense as to why it was closed


[9/14/2020 4:31 PM] hon1nbo
yeah


[9/14/2020 4:32 PM] aceat64
ah gotcha


[9/14/2020 4:32 PM] hon1nbo
the 503 issue was what got our attention in long term discussion, but even though that was dismissed as not really being problematic the toxic crap like that which seems inevitable on talk in politics threads was the core reason for the decision


[9/14/2020 4:32 PM] hon1nbo
and this was a normally tame person


[9/14/2020 4:32 PM] hon1nbo
politics doesn't do anyone any good when sitting at a keyboard

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[9/14/2020 4:33 PM] hon1nbo
so unless it's something like a "get out the vote" thing it just doesn't need to be there.


[9/14/2020 4:34 PM] aceat64
there's loads of places to talk politics, DMS Talk doesn't have to be one of them

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[9/14/2020 4:35 PM] aceat64
I like anime, but I don't feel the need to go on Talk and start thread after thread about the latest show I'm watching


[9/14/2020 4:35 PM] aceat64
it's ok for Talk to be about DMS and making stuff

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[9/14/2020 4:36 PM] aceat64
I guess now I'm a https://tenor.com/view/adventure-time-treetrunks-fascist-gif-9506794

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[9/14/2020 4:37 PM] canibalcrab
No glitter

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[9/14/2020 4:37 PM] aceat64
there's a reason I had that one marked as a favorite lol


[9/14/2020 4:37 PM] canibalcrab
More evidence that you are one


[9/14/2020 4:38 PM] aceat64
:andrewsdumbface:


[9/14/2020 4:40 PM] toenolla
My favorite gif ❤️


[9/14/2020 5:12 PM] noble_goblin
I’m heavily considering changing my discord tag to Fascist Kween

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[9/14/2020 7:07 PM] themitch22
@NobleGoblin the fashionable fascist


[9/14/2020 7:47 PM] noble_goblin
@themitch22 changed it. No ragrets. Still unsure of if I’m a left leaning or right leaning one though. 🤔


[9/24/2020 5:44 PM] redbeardedpirate
you fucking fascists. i knew it


[9/24/2020 7:42 PM] yashsedai
lol wut


[9/24/2020 7:42 PM] hon1nbo
apparently @NobleGoblin is a fascist according to some silly person on the server

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[9/26/2020 11:20 AM] noble_goblin
Fuck yeah I am! Though I’m still unsure of what that means since it was never clearly defined if I was a left or right leaning one. Soooo I’m just following suite and making shit up as I go


[9/26/2020 5:13 PM] nullinterface
fascists are generally right wing; communists are left wing.  but at the end of the day they both bend back around to the point that they effectively meet.

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[9/26/2020 5:17 PM] doug.emes
Like magenta!


[9/27/2020 4:02 AM] toenolla
If you want to rip a hole in political spacetime, just tell them you're an anarcho-fascist


[9/28/2020 5:07 AM] noble_goblin
Eh. I like to keep people guessing. Plus, once you label yourself or align with a specific party/belief publicly then people looooove to make assumptions about you.

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[9/28/2020 7:30 AM] nullinterface
I don't claim an ideology and no ideology claims me


[9/28/2020 7:34 AM] nullinterface
the appeal is obvious - something prepackaged that offers the solution to (most of) life's political questions


[9/28/2020 7:34 AM] nullinterface
but the idea that any one school of thought consistently has the best answers beggars belief


[9/28/2020 1:20 PM] toenolla
I've come around to the utility of labels as I've gotten older.  They're good for organizing around, but not so great for building an identity.

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[9/28/2020 2:01 PM] nullinterface
Same.  Got no issue with labels, just wish the bulk of humanity could move past one-size-fits-all ideology

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[9/28/2020 3:10 PM] themitch22
The PTouch label maker would run out of tape before I'm done labeling myself.

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[10/1/2020 9:09 PM] slinkygn
> fascists are generally right wing; communists are left wing.  but at the end of the day they both bend back around to the point that they effectively meet.
And the point where they "meet" and become harder to distinguish from each other in any other than a pure economic perspective is authoritarianism.


[10/2/2020 2:07 AM] saiyajin3258
what would the opposite of authoritarianism be?


[10/2/2020 2:08 AM] canibalcrab
un-authoritarianism

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[10/2/2020 2:08 AM] canibalcrab
https://tenor.com/view/nailedit-goodjob-spoton-exactly-nailed-gif-5689810

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[10/2/2020 2:49 AM] saiyajin3258
fair enough


[10/2/2020 7:19 PM] toenolla
I mean, anarchism is the opposite of authoritarianism.  Anarchists don't want authority to exist.


[10/2/2020 7:20 PM] toenolla
(With caveats.  I'm not an anarchist but I know there are nuances.)


[10/2/2020 8:32 PM] aceat64
anarchism means without _rulers_, not necessarily without _rules_


[10/2/2020 8:32 PM] aceat64
but there's like a million flavors of anarchism


[10/2/2020 8:34 PM] aceat64
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_schools_of_thought

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_schools_of_thought
Anarchist schools of thought
Anarchism is the political philosophy which holds ruling classes and the state to be undesirable, unnecessary and harmful, or alternatively as opposing authority and hierarchical organization in the conduct of human relations.Proponents of anarchism, known as anarchists, advoc...


[10/2/2020 8:35 PM] aceat64
have fun with that rabbit hole


[10/2/2020 8:36 PM] michaelb5250
All this just makes me think of the python scene about the anarcho-syndicalist commune.

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[10/2/2020 8:36 PM] aceat64
lol yeah


[10/22/2020 10:09 PM] nextfungus
Imagine Trump had Biden arrested tomorrow personally and had the ability to disqualify Biden from the election.


[10/22/2020 10:09 PM] nextfungus
It would be just another DMS election


[10/22/2020 10:10 PM] aceat64
you're not funny


[10/22/2020 10:12 PM] nextfungus
It wasn't meant to be funny, just truthful.


[10/22/2020 10:12 PM] yashsedai
haha


[10/22/2020 10:12 PM] yashsedai
its hilarious


[10/22/2020 10:12 PM] canibalcrab
back to your conspiracy hole


[10/22/2020 10:13 PM] yashsedai
It's nothing based in reality but still hilarious


[10/22/2020 10:13 PM] yashsedai
@NextFungus do tell us, did Kris really not steal from DMS? Abuse her position? Lie to the members? Is that all a figment of our imagination?


[10/22/2020 10:14 PM] nextfungus
No clue, I didn't review any of the evidence.


[10/22/2020 10:15 PM] yashsedai
That being the case, how could you make such a comparison?


[10/22/2020 10:15 PM] nextfungus
Because it wasn't about Kris Anderson .


[10/22/2020 10:16 PM] aceat64
maybe it was about the person who got the least number of votes


[10/22/2020 10:16 PM] nextfungus
The imposter Among Us is typing


[10/22/2020 10:17 PM] yashsedai
lol sounds like something mark would say


[10/22/2020 10:17 PM] aceat64
nah, it's too new of a reference


[10/22/2020 10:17 PM] nextfungus
Mark, Draco, come on point fingers wherever you want


[10/22/2020 10:17 PM] yashsedai
@aceat64 I ain't go no time keeping up with that


[10/22/2020 10:17 PM] aceat64
lol


[10/22/2020 10:17 PM] aceat64
Among Us is pretty fun


[10/22/2020 10:17 PM] nextfungus
Agreed


[10/22/2020 10:18 PM] yashsedai
So why not identify yourself?


[10/22/2020 10:18 PM] nextfungus
Why do I need to, does that change the validity?


[10/22/2020 10:19 PM] nextfungus
That's super sus.


[10/22/2020 10:19 PM] yashsedai
It totally changes the validity


[10/22/2020 10:19 PM] yashsedai
Simply put, arguing in bad faith is bad


[10/22/2020 10:19 PM] nextfungus
Okay explain this, why didn't you do the card swipe?


[10/22/2020 10:19 PM] aceat64
kinda hard to care about the opinion of a random person, who probably doesn't know anything about the org, and whose only real comments were clear trolling


[10/22/2020 10:20 PM] yashsedai
card swipe?


[10/22/2020 10:21 PM] nextfungus
I've made my point, you guys know what you've done and participated in. If this haunts you, there's a reason.


[10/22/2020 10:21 PM] canibalcrab
they dont have any evidence to back themselves up so they are just making among us references


[10/22/2020 10:21 PM] yashsedai
ah


[10/22/2020 10:21 PM] yashsedai
Sounds like baseless bs, i sleep great a night haha


[10/22/2020 10:21 PM] aceat64
man, now I'm interested in this "card swipe" conspiracy


[10/22/2020 10:22 PM] aceat64
the crazy theories are always hilarious


[10/22/2020 10:22 PM] yashsedai
so what does card swipe have to do with among us?


[10/22/2020 10:22 PM] canibalcrab
probaly some homeless making fake rfid cards


[10/22/2020 10:22 PM] aceat64
he's making an Among Us joke


[10/22/2020 10:22 PM] aceat64
but I want to believe it's actually a DMS-based conspiracy


[10/22/2020 10:22 PM] aceat64
because that would actually be funny


[10/22/2020 10:23 PM] nextfungus
Sometimes DMS card swipes are harder than Among Us card swipes


[10/22/2020 10:23 PM] aceat64
here's why the joke failed man, you can't see someone do the card swipe


[10/22/2020 10:23 PM] yashsedai
@pearce wouldn't be suprised if some homeless was doing fake rfid's not like its hard or complicated


[10/22/2020 10:24 PM] aceat64
https://tenor.com/view/hello-fellow-kids-steve-buscemi-30rock-undercover-hello-gif-5410477

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[10/22/2020 10:24 PM] yashsedai
ROFLMAO


[10/22/2020 10:25 PM] aceat64
making jokes based on current references but getting it wrong because he hasn't actually played the game is pretty great


[10/22/2020 10:26 PM] nextfungus
You're getting it wrog, I said they didn't do a card swipe, that means I camped by the card and never saw them show up to do it. When the card swipe is in the game everyone gets the task.


[10/22/2020 10:26 PM] aceat64
card swipe isn't always a common task, dude


[10/22/2020 10:27 PM] aceat64
I'm going to play a video game for real now


[10/22/2020 10:27 PM] nextfungus
Listen I know there are some typos but your reading comprehension is poor


[10/22/2020 10:27 PM] aceat64
have fun


[10/22/2020 10:28 PM] nextfungus
All right guys we're definitely voting LeCody out next round. And if you have to vote me out first that's fine just make sure when I'm not the imposter you take him out next.


[10/22/2020 10:29 PM] aceat64
> When the card swipe is in the game everyone gets the task.


[10/22/2020 10:29 PM] aceat64
that's called a common task


[10/22/2020 10:29 PM] aceat64
card swipe isn't always a common task


[10/22/2020 10:29 PM] nextfungus
Sus


[10/22/2020 10:30 PM] aceat64
🙄


[10/22/2020 10:30 PM] aceat64
this is some boomer memes stuff lol


[10/22/2020 10:30 PM] nextfungus
You wouldn't be so agitated if you weren't the imposter


[10/22/2020 10:30 PM] canibalcrab
have fun making bad comparisons to elections


[10/22/2020 10:30 PM] nextfungus
Weren't you the one that did nonsense stuff with the excuse that it was because of the coronavirus like getting rid of storage?


[10/22/2020 10:30 PM] canibalcrab
wasnt my choise bud


[10/22/2020 10:31 PM] nextfungus
Then I'm mistaken


[10/22/2020 10:33 PM] nextfungus
I actually think storage is a bad idea, but whatever fraud made the choice to get rid of it made a mistake doing it the way that they did it.


[10/22/2020 10:33 PM] yashsedai
This seems like some David Ratcliffe bs


[10/22/2020 10:34 PM] canibalcrab
fungus is an apt name


[10/22/2020 10:34 PM] aceat64
nah, he's not David, I'm on good terms with David


[10/22/2020 10:34 PM] yashsedai
haha


[10/22/2020 10:34 PM] yashsedai
take away my fun


[10/22/2020 10:34 PM] aceat64
edit to clarify


[10/23/2020 8:50 AM] anutterbutter
Cute, but regardless, false comparison is false.


[10/23/2020 9:09 AM] kenpurcell
NextFungus != Funny ##sad sad trolling


[10/24/2020 3:17 PM] nullinterface
My main regrets wrt Havens was brokering that compromise in 2016 that only expelled him for 9 months


[10/24/2020 3:22 PM] nullinterface
Had I not, he would have been perma-B& *and* I could have abstained from the vote for lack of familiarity with the lurid past brought up at that first BoD meeting


[10/24/2020 3:29 PM] nullinterface
But he's not going to be much missed


[10/24/2020 3:31 PM] nullinterface
That's OK.  He can scam grants for junk-science CS research grants at UTA doing *"... but with computers!"* psychological assessments, automating methods that were invalidated last century.


[10/24/2020 4:05 PM] aceat64
I have a similar regret. I should have pushed to ban him when he started a non-profit that listed other members as directors without their consent, made the DMS the registered agent without our knowledge/consent and then thumbed his nose at us for trying to resolve it in a civil/professional way. We naively assumed a ban wasn't needed since he left of his own accord after we filed the paperwork with the state to reject the registered agent status and such.


[10/24/2020 4:08 PM] aceat64
He did well laying low between his times of harassment, so that the political will to ban him would dimish enough to be safe.


[10/25/2020 8:50 AM] kenpurcell
Hindsight is 2020. We often do not have either enough time or enough knowledge for nuanced solutions.  In the end his shenanigans are gone. I really appreciate the leadership past boards have provided. A lot of those type issues seem infrequent now. Maybe we are settling in for a more mature makerspace. I watch a virtual tour that James gave yesterday and was amazed at several committees areas like Machine Shop, Glass, Ceramics. While there is still lots of rearranging/construction, it is now possible to see light at the end of the tunnel.


[11/4/2020 8:07 AM] nullinterface


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https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/773548925264330752/123726529_10157927709259037_4875945240874849016_n.png?ex=67b93153&is=67b7dfd3&hm=dee1fa12ad4c630a734ab08b09fc68c35a1722575c29a0729d0fcfdf9dc37fbe&

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🦘 (4)

[11/4/2020 10:11 AM] quattroquattro
How does one get a kangaroo permit? Asking for a friend


[11/4/2020 10:36 AM] nullinterface
I'm sure there's some guy out back of a cell phone accessories store on Irving Blvd that could hook you up

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[11/4/2020 11:14 AM] rayearth42


{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/773595950769242133/49e097e01e1cc1551816efe40329bd34.jpg?ex=67b95d1f&is=67b80b9f&hm=a3a3a5d44cb665e802e218bb16d3870e702f9914e932750d67c3c0363273dee9&


[11/4/2020 11:15 AM] canibalcrab
and tasty


[11/4/2020 11:27 AM] kenpurcell
Kanga Stew!


[11/4/2020 12:17 PM] nullinterface
their leather is incredibly durable as well


[11/4/2020 3:06 PM] doug.emes
And dresses made from their hide have pockets!

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[11/4/2020 9:30 PM] themitch22
Kangaroo would be a terrible pet


[11/4/2020 10:04 PM] denzuko
But a good steak


[11/4/2020 10:13 PM] themitch22
Never had it, Twisted Root had exotic meats like that


[11/4/2020 10:17 PM] denzuko
Yep. Thats where I had it and my aussie friend has a recipe which would surprise you


[11/4/2020 10:19 PM] denzuko
https://mykoreankitchen.com/kangaroo-meat-bulgogi-bbq/

{Embed}
https://mykoreankitchen.com/kangaroo-meat-bulgogi-bbq/
Korean Style Kangaroo Meat BBQ
Korean style Kangaroo meat BBQ! Thinly sliced kangaroo rump steak is marinated in Korean bulgogi sauce. It's tender and delicious! I became an Australian citizen several years ago. Near the end of my citizenship ceremony, someone from the stage shouted out loud “Aussie Aussie ...
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/aiiGP0pReaRPTMQyu-impfMh8JhAoSdr-vCdMuJYd9c/https/mykoreankitchen.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/R_Kangaroo-Meat-Bulgogi-1.jpg


[11/5/2020 8:27 AM] quattroquattro
> Kangaroo would be a terrible pet
@themitch22 have to disagree here, it would be just like having a big dog but with a utility pocket! If you don't have a big yard for it then get a wallaby, they don't need as much space. Though honestly, they can't carry as much in their pocket either


[11/5/2020 9:26 AM] nullinterface
let us know how that works out - license and all


[11/5/2020 9:41 AM] kenpurcell
Except your dog can now kick your backdoor in when they want in.


[11/5/2020 9:45 AM] andrew5152
weirdly, this comes to mind...
https://youtu.be/nvIi9NZzLzA?t=54

{Embed}
Lord Jerome
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvIi9NZzLzA&start=54
Family Guy  At the Zoo
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/0maWaEwiSbVE5jj0qciShEr9vZfpAzXGsRMyoDTeU4Y/https/i.ytimg.com/vi/nvIi9NZzLzA/maxresdefault.jpg

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[11/5/2020 10:30 AM] quattroquattro
> Except your dog can now kick your backdoor in when they want in.
@Lampy (Ken Purcell) I'll just put in a kangaroo size doggy door. It'll be fine.


[11/5/2020 10:40 AM] quattroquattro
Though truthfully I'm not really into big pets, they are harder to clean up after. I'd be more likely to get a wallaby or tree kangaroo.


[11/5/2020 3:52 PM] nextfungus
I imagine in Texas it's about as easy as getting one for a tiger, just get a sheriff to sign off on it after establishing that you have an environment to care for it and keep it contained.


[11/5/2020 8:28 PM] toenolla
I can confirm that the kangaroo burgers at Twisted Root are tasty.


[11/6/2020 4:57 PM] lavarocks.
Twisted Root...RIP

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[11/6/2020 6:54 PM] engpin1964
?


[11/6/2020 7:59 PM] themitch22
Twisted Root went out of business


[11/6/2020 8:01 PM] talkers
Some locations. Notably Carrollton, Coppell and Arlington. Not sure about the status of the others. Some are franchisee owned


[11/6/2020 8:26 PM] michaelb5250
The airport is the only one left in town. Though the website lists the other locations as 'temporarily closed'...


[11/7/2020 9:24 PM] nullinterface
Lewisville location closure looks permanent: another restaurant is opening there


[11/7/2020 9:59 PM] themitch22
By Mustang Station there is a brewery restaurant opening soon.

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[3/25/2021 10:52 PM] ealott
Twisted Root appears to be back!

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[3/31/2021 1:21 PM] kenpurcell
```3/29 Announce 2021 Board of Directors Election & Annual Membership Meeting for 4/30 7pm (TALK)
3/31 Notification reminder to request Voting Rights and/or file Statements of Intent (Email & TALK)
4/14 5pm Deadline to file Statements of Intent on our Wiki (https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Category:2021_Statements_of_Intent 8)
4/14 5pm Deadline to request Voting Rights (Member in Good Standing 90 days)
4/14 5pm Deadline to submit other business
4/15 Setup Online Voting System (Secretary)
4/16 8am Online Voting Beginning (2 week duration)
4/21 Meet The Candidates (can be any day week of 4/18)
4/30 5pm Online Voting Ends
4/30 5:30pm Voting Reports/Exports from Simply Voting
4/30 6pm Tally Votes
4/30 7pm Election Results Announcement & Transfer of Officers```


[3/31/2021 1:21 PM] kenpurcell
```The voting system will send you an email on the morning of 4/16 when voting opens. This email will contain your credentials to vote.

It will look like:

Hello {name},

You are registered to vote in 2021 Board of Directors Election of the Dallas Makerspace. This ballot ends at 2021-04-30 17:00 US/Central.

To vote, please visit: https://dallasmakerspace.simplyvoting.com/

Then enter:

Elector ID - {elector_id}
Password - {password}

Or follow this link to access the ballot directly: https://dallasmakerspace.simplyvoting.com/{direct_link}

Regards,
Dallas Makerspace```


[4/13/2021 1:00 PM] kenpurcell
We have five statements of intent, anyone else feel compelled to run for BoD?


[4/13/2021 2:38 PM] nullinterface
**NEGATIVE**


[4/13/2021 3:04 PM] kenpurcell
^^^^^ this


[4/13/2021 3:06 PM] michaelb5250
Any other items on the ballot this year?


[4/13/2021 3:07 PM] skyspook
Nope. We had very little faith that we'd be able to get a quorum, and didn't like clearing the voting roll without lots and lots of notice (one way to fix the quorum issue)


[4/13/2021 6:16 PM] themitch22
*nose goes*


[4/13/2021 6:58 PM] canibalcrab
👃


[4/14/2021 12:35 AM] nullinterface
What's the DMS page to confirm voting rights again?


[4/14/2021 5:34 AM] andrew5152
Makermanager.dallasmakerspace.org will do it i believe


[4/14/2021 9:02 AM] nullinterface
that does indeed rattle off AD groups.  thanks.


[4/14/2021 9:51 AM] kenpurcell
i will add a talk post about it


[4/16/2021 9:00 AM] kenpurcell
The elections are live at: https://dallasmakerspace.simplyvoting.com/index.php
If you are a Voting Member you should get an email with your credentials to login and vote. Polls are open until 5pm on 4/30. If you need to check if you are in the Voting Rights AD group you can look at your account in Maker Manager https://makermanager.dallasmakerspace.org/ Look in the right column for Voting Members

{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/832616462970650694/d49ad0f615ab4846adda49bfbb56cf65c4ad4c71_2_278x500.png?ex=67b92fc2&is=67b7de42&hm=ddfa52dc26873fb4b367836f8c5c816d4771837027d644a6957f9c964b0bd333&

{Embed}
https://dallasmakerspace.simplyvoting.com/index.php
Dallas Makerspace :: Online Voting
Dallas Makerspace online voting website


[4/16/2021 9:05 AM] kenpurcell
There are 247 Voting Members, so quorum (1/3 of Voting Members) would be 82.


[4/18/2021 6:23 PM] kenpurcell
69 members have voted so far. Quorum is 82. 12 days to go.

{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/833482836824162354/Screen_Shot_2021-04-18_at_6.21.46_PM.png?ex=67b90ae1&is=67b7b961&hm=20d5823227a6eb4c52b03cbe41de567177fd83c1db57ddfc6140039d3bd873f4&

{Reactions}
69 (3)

[4/18/2021 6:32 PM] toenolla
I'm getting a 522: Connection timed out at Dallasmakerspace.org


[4/18/2021 6:32 PM] doug.emes
waiting for Wednesday meet the candidates hours


[4/18/2021 6:32 PM] toenolla
whoops that was meant for general


[4/18/2021 6:33 PM] doug.emes
hi hailey, not seein any issues connecting here in garland to it


[4/18/2021 6:34 PM] toenolla
hmmmmmmm

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[4/18/2021 6:39 PM] doug.emes
sorry 😦


[4/18/2021 6:39 PM] doug.emes
and hi long time no chats friendo

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[4/19/2021 2:41 PM] nullinterface
worse voter apathy than I was expecting


[4/19/2021 2:43 PM] canibalcrab
doesn't that mean people aren't rallying pitchforks?


[4/19/2021 2:43 PM] canibalcrab
but also haven't had the meet the candidates yet


[4/19/2021 3:02 PM] doug.emes
Personally I am waiting till at least the meeting.  If one decides to vote for 5, then in a way it's voting against one... and for that... I'd like to hear see more from the candidates.


[4/19/2021 3:53 PM] hardsuit
Ditto

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[4/19/2021 10:20 PM] kenpurcell


{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/833904830111285258/Screen_Shot_2021-04-19_at_10.18.24_PM.png?ex=67b94264&is=67b7f0e4&hm=6192e377f56dc6f6ac24ee7855ee8d3b607007244da64dc2dd5deb1c18bd34b2&


[4/19/2021 10:23 PM] aceat64
2 to go


[4/19/2021 11:01 PM] doug.emes
bah, 167 to go, and Hardsuit and I are 2 of them waiting for at least the meet

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[4/20/2021 7:00 AM] kenpurcell
2 more just to make quorum, I for one would love to see a participation rate as high as possible. This is the most Voting Members (electors) we have ever had and was making me nervous about reaching quorum and having to run the election again. 🎟️

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dms (3)

[4/21/2021 6:27 PM] doug.emes
I apologize I wanted to attend in person but I would be late do to an unforseen circumstance.  I will be attending the Google meet online for the MTC


[4/21/2021 7:09 PM] talkers


{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/834581548216746015/Questions_for_the_Candidates_-_2021_MakerSpace.pdf?ex=67b915a2&is=67b7c422&hm=d6ef0236817202aa7ee42ba9d09b01918089c5aade36c10ebc008918cb8d4cdf&


[4/21/2021 7:09 PM] talkers
Only a couple of the questions showed up on chat.


[4/21/2021 7:09 PM] kenpurcell
cool, thanks


[4/21/2021 7:13 PM] kenpurcell
online google meet https://meet.google.com/jnx-cgoe-cer

{Embed}
https://meet.google.com/jnx-cgoe-cer
Meet
Real-time meetings by Google. Using your browser, share your video, desktop, and presentations with teammates and customers.
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/GCEsHEuoDTlzmJI_A4QfZk7rhbRzgKpjyZ2wWn9VqrM/https/fonts.gstatic.com/s/i/productlogos/meet_2020q4/v1/web-96dp/logo_meet_2020q4_color_2x_web_96dp.png


[4/21/2021 7:27 PM] doug.emes
as I mentioned in the meeting, ill posit my question live.  once asked, ill paste here for posterity for others to see (though it will be in the meeting recording)


[4/21/2021 7:34 PM] doug.emes
Doug Emes:  I have been a member longer than most.  I have watched us move multiple locations and have seen the swell and shrink of the members.  while the classic prell hair commercial had 2 friends telling 2 other friends.  this is both a problem and a solution.  for each candidate, please identify what actions you would push the other board members to FINISHING in the 1st 60 days of office.  

We hear so often that there are plans, but I think we can all agree there's plenty of low to mid hanging fruit that would benefit the entirety of the space when we take things singularly.


Answers might include WHCMS code fixes, a suite of onboarding videos, etc.  the re-arrange of an area with concrete documentation and layouts, to include a virtual representation.

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[4/21/2021 7:36 PM] yashsedai
Whmcs code fixes have been completed for more than 2 weeks


[4/21/2021 7:36 PM] kenpurcell
yes, thanks the emails/tickets have really been reduced!


[4/21/2021 7:37 PM] yashsedai
Lol funny how quickly they dropped off


[4/21/2021 7:37 PM] kenpurcell
still have people issues 😉


[4/21/2021 7:37 PM] yashsedai
Always will haha


[4/21/2021 7:38 PM] aceat64
has Charles talked with the committee chairs about this idea?


[4/21/2021 7:38 PM] aceat64
can't imagine they all want to deal with it individually


[4/21/2021 7:38 PM] kenpurcell
storage fetish?


[4/21/2021 7:38 PM] aceat64
🤷


[4/21/2021 7:39 PM] aceat64
YKINMKBYKIOK


[4/21/2021 7:43 PM] aceat64
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1nxuL15zAf5Qf21CIYKOAspco9T8JKcpjiXKUP_hjJ-M/edit?usp=sharing

{Embed}
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1nxuL15zAf5Qf21CIYKOAspco9T8JKcpjiXKUP_hjJ-M/edit?usp=sharing
DMS - New Member Orientation
Welcome To The Maker Movement Hi, I’m Andrew LeCody (or someone else, I don’t know this is a premade slide show) Please do not use this slide deck if you are requesting honorarium These slides are licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 2.0 Generic License The mak...
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/w0r56Ji9VajDjh5peyAb09TKLm_UBSClixgQltWHGfY/https/lh3.googleusercontent.com/PvjhR0q-vwE3ztisxSgFMekGuzOnaxjc5pzc9Z9hApSzQbi1J-tH5VIEO2q3q4hpCl7vx17ZoorywA%3Dw1200-h630-p

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[4/21/2021 7:44 PM] kenpurcell
yes, be glad once we can host those classes again


[4/21/2021 7:44 PM] aceat64
minor note, the slides are licensed under CC-BY-NC-SA


[4/21/2021 7:45 PM] aceat64
so I do ask that anyone teaching the class using these slides not be taking honorarium

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dms (3)

[4/21/2021 7:47 PM] aceat64
a good slide to add would be profile pictures of officers, chairs and board members


[4/21/2021 7:47 PM] aceat64
alright, gotta bounce busy busy


[4/21/2021 7:48 PM] kenpurcell
thanks Andrew


[4/21/2021 7:52 PM] doug.emes
yeah @aceat64 -  for a  followup, i would say it makes MUCHO sense for us to automate much of that delivery akin to the intro videos at the big recreation parks like Disney etc.  Then once the domain knowledge has been sent out, have those open house Q&A or followups for the actual "live" but I support it andrew, heck I sat in both yours and Lara's

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[4/21/2021 7:53 PM] aceat64
I don't have tons of free time currently, so I can't commit to teaching, but I'm up for filming an intro video


[4/21/2021 7:54 PM] aceat64
could email it when they sign up

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[4/21/2021 7:54 PM] aceat64
I just need someone with editing experience to make it look good, I can provide content and voice/face


[4/21/2021 7:55 PM] doug.emes
i can do those things, plus I think using some rapid tools like descript works well


[4/21/2021 7:55 PM] doug.emes
i have posted previously in laser an example of the output


[4/21/2021 7:55 PM] skyspook
I cam help as well. I'm only dangeous with editing tools, but can help :)


[4/21/2021 7:56 PM] skyspook
Can also get it up on moodle


[4/21/2021 7:56 PM] doug.emes
yeah justin i think we need both moodle and a full video only example for youtube/external facing


[4/21/2021 9:59 PM] rayearth42
Thanks @aceat64 and @doug.emes !  A video would be great!  I was hoping we could use some of @aceat64 's class material.  I don't think this should be an honorarium class.  I'm willing to teach but a video would be much better.

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🤝 (2)

[4/22/2021 12:01 PM] quattroquattro
@Skyspook just got the signage player working for the front lobby, we could just put the intro video on loop up there


[4/22/2021 12:01 PM] skyspook
That might be cool


[4/22/2021 12:07 PM] rayearth42
That would be awesome


[4/27/2021 7:01 PM] kenpurcell
Please post any questions you have for the candidates here.

{Reactions}
dms (2)

[4/27/2021 7:25 PM] kenpurcell
what is the google meet link you are using? troubleshooting a problem with my laptop


[4/27/2021 7:33 PM] aceat64
https://meet.google.com/icv-iibx-pdj

{Embed}
https://meet.google.com/icv-iibx-pdj
Meet
Real-time meetings by Google. Using your browser, share your video, desktop, and presentations with teammates and customers.
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/GCEsHEuoDTlzmJI_A4QfZk7rhbRzgKpjyZ2wWn9VqrM/https/fonts.gstatic.com/s/i/productlogos/meet_2020q4/v1/web-96dp/logo_meet_2020q4_color_2x_web_96dp.png


[4/27/2021 7:42 PM] kenpurcell
thanks, was at the wrong link and in my own echo chamber


[4/29/2021 7:20 AM] kenpurcell
Almost 53% of Voting Members have voted.

{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/837302261104771122/Screen_Shot_2021-04-29_at_7.18.43_AM.png?ex=67b9183f&is=67b7c6bf&hm=087fccf88706a04b525c5e1706d50d85024125546c28d1e364ef0fbdb785c54a&


[4/29/2021 7:20 AM] kenpurcell
Final reminder email going out at 8am this morning

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[4/30/2021 10:24 AM] kenpurcell
62% of Voting members have voted so far. Voting ends today at 5pm.

{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/837711120801595392/Screen_Shot_2021-04-30_at_10.22.22_AM.png?ex=67b94387&is=67b7f207&hm=1bb00100515942d302f91fe000cae0a6d6428149d667909a8ebbeaf87860219d&

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dms (2)

[4/30/2021 1:03 PM] kenpurcell
Maybe next time we can get some bylaws updated.

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[4/30/2021 3:10 PM] doug.emes
Finish 💪


[4/30/2021 4:25 PM] kenpurcell


{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/837801904188817438/Screen_Shot_2021-04-30_at_4.23.37_PM.png?ex=67b8ef53&is=67b79dd3&hm=2c83c948065644ad536b5c00c2046054867824147aedc85270f038c971e4c39c&


[5/4/2021 9:38 PM] doug.emes
Can I get a copy of the D&O ins sent to my email?  Thelab needs to shop around


[5/4/2021 11:14 PM] aceat64
you'll want to email admin@ for that one


[5/4/2021 11:18 PM] doug.emes
done


[5/5/2021 7:50 AM] quattroquattro
Our broker info is probably more useful than the policy. Our broker actually understands what a makerspace is and how to get insurance for it's board. I'll dig that up and send it your way

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[5/12/2021 8:49 PM] judykriehn3727
Forgive my cluelessness, but we’re election results ever announced?


[5/12/2021 8:49 PM] judykriehn3727
Were. Damn autocorrect.


[5/12/2021 8:56 PM] andrew5152
https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/2021-dms-board-of-directors-election-annual-meeting/79830/18


[5/12/2021 8:58 PM] andrew5152
also, https://discord.com/channels/300062029559889931/300075034951811073/837863086752399391


[5/12/2021 9:35 PM] judykriehn3727
Thx


[5/13/2021 9:36 AM] kenpurcell
also at https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Board_of_Directors

{Embed}
https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Board_of_Directors
Board of Directors


[11/10/2021 10:09 PM] hon1nbo
pride

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[11/17/2021 6:53 PM] nommynap


{Attachments}
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/910694289758101584/Screenshot_20211117-180909.png?ex=67b92026&is=67b7cea6&hm=1ac7886f7728dafb1eca8e5f4b5b35836c029da301813c782575ddcc50abd7e4&

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[11/18/2021 11:04 PM] james_david_vance
Live by the board, die by the board

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💩 PES_WallPeek

[12/29/2021 7:09 PM] aceat64
anyone know what the fellowship fund looks like currently?


[12/29/2021 7:10 PM] aceat64
or is there a report somewhere I can check


[12/29/2021 7:21 PM] kenpurcell
Last time I knew a legit answer was years ago after a certain board member gave them out like candy. It was negative $430.


[12/29/2021 7:26 PM] aceat64
damn


[12/29/2021 7:33 PM] kenpurcell
If we want to fundraise for it I would toss in. But it would be worthwhile to see if the sign up link has generated anything since.


[12/29/2021 7:43 PM] aceat64
I think we'd probably want to redesign it a bit first, so it's more clear what it should be used for and when


[12/29/2021 7:43 PM] aceat64
it would be much more useful as a recruiting tool to get underprivileged members of the community to join


[12/29/2021 7:44 PM] aceat64
instead of as a reward for volunteering, especially since we expect that _everyone_ should be helping to build DMS


[12/29/2021 7:47 PM] andrew5152
Such a fund, regardless of intent,  really needs an endowment in my opinion.


[12/29/2021 7:47 PM] kenpurcell
Great idea, was never happy it became an attaboy award.


[12/29/2021 8:13 PM] canibalcrab
you mean the original intent?


[12/29/2021 8:14 PM] aceat64
yup


[12/29/2021 9:18 PM] quattroquattro
We are working on a plan for it for the new year.  If anyone has people to nominate send it our way.


[1/1/2022 10:48 AM] denzuko
Started a thread.


[1/28/2022 1:56 PM] nullinterface
there are no SOIs.  we're doomed.
https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Category:2022_Statements_of_Intent

{Embed}
https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Category:2022_Statements_of_Intent
Category:2022 Statements of Intent


[1/28/2022 3:25 PM] themitch22
Give people a few more months to decide if they're into masochism

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[1/28/2022 3:27 PM] nullinterface
been there done that didn't even get the promised t-shirt


[1/28/2022 3:40 PM] hon1nbo
I wasn't even offered a t-shirt


[1/28/2022 3:46 PM] canibalcrab
I had to make the shirts to get elected

{Reactions}
dms (5)

[1/30/2022 6:21 PM] redbeardedpirate
Make shirt happen?


[1/31/2022 8:14 PM] toenolla
Be the shirt you want to see in the world.


[1/31/2022 10:18 PM] themitch22
are shirts optional?


[2/1/2022 7:49 AM] andrew5152


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https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/938068574101204992/iu.png?ex=67b92d30&is=67b7dbb0&hm=36e17d47177205304c2afbe5291cb382f0e48ace96cf1e8b5e8f69db72d32ca3&


[2/1/2022 9:37 AM] quattroquattro
Doesn't say anything about no pants... 👖

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[2/1/2022 9:41 AM] kenpurcell
Gotta love Bert's input on an organization he is not a member of. (Sorry referring to a PM on talk that I forwarded to the D&O). Just venting.

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[2/1/2022 9:50 AM] quattroquattro
I used to try and reply to him, but after a while I realized that he's just waiting for a reply so he can type another monologue and not even reading the response.


[2/1/2022 3:18 PM] aceat64
https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/proposal-code-of-conduct-change-reform/87308

{Embed}
https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/proposal-code-of-conduct-change-reform/87308
Proposal: Code of Conduct change/reform
Our current Code of Conduct is well intentioned but attempts to cover too many different aspects of managing member behavior. This means that the process of handling an issue is the same for someone who unintentionally broke an organizational rule (e.g. not cleaning up) and for someone who sexually harasses another member. My proposal is to repl...
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/I4_EedIDX0BjqrznQWWDFVury0feLFBlQTwMKQACnF4/https/dms-discourse-static.s3.dualstack.us-east-1.amazonaws.com/original/3X/f/7/f70cced1563c2e6c3aab1a7cbef3cfba5d1983fe.png


[2/1/2022 3:18 PM] aceat64
I spent a lot of time thinking on this and writing up the drafts


[2/1/2022 3:18 PM] aceat64
but don't worry, I also have an idea for classes/honorarium/training changes too, which I'm sure will be an equally popular topic 🙂


[2/1/2022 3:19 PM] aceat64
the main takeaway from this post is that I would really like everyone to read or at least skim this book: https://frameshiftconsulting.com/resources/code-of-conduct-book/

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vaurora
https://frameshiftconsulting.com/resources/code-of-conduct-book/
Code of Conduct book
You can now download a free book detailing how to enforce a code of conduct, “How to Respond to Code of Conduct Reports,” written by Valerie Aurora and Mary Gardiner and edited by Annal…
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/EFm_6Ffh11DhhJn9f3XeK-QCaU5R136T49DXBL2VYRQ/https/frameshiftconsultingdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2018/11/book_cover_gulls_epub_thumbnail_sand.png

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[2/1/2022 11:57 PM] nullinterface
Much concern trolling


[2/2/2022 2:55 PM] toenolla
Honestly it's going better than I expected. There are actual adults in the thread.


[2/2/2022 3:01 PM] aceat64
how dare you accuse me of being mature! 😛


[2/2/2022 3:03 PM] aceat64
but in all seriousness, it's going surprisingly well


[2/2/2022 3:11 PM] aceat64
the primary issue seems to revolve around only the small part of the draft COC, and really that just covers some reasons why a report might not be acted on


[2/2/2022 3:12 PM] aceat64
e.g. a report made in bad faith


[2/2/2022 3:12 PM] aceat64
when I get some time later I'll think about how it might be reworded


[2/2/2022 3:14 PM] aceat64
there's a balance to be made between making it clear that abusing the COC is an violation of the COC and not wanting to scare off legitimate reports


[2/2/2022 3:15 PM] canibalcrab
you should replace the "right to not act" in the reverse-ism section with "logged and dismissed"

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[2/2/2022 4:17 PM] kenpurcell
The discussion is going fairly well for a DMS thread.


[2/2/2022 4:33 PM] andrew5152
but it's a wednesday, which we all know is All South Park All Day on Comedy Central. Once that's over, the gloves'll come off...

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[2/2/2022 4:33 PM] andrew5152
or is that the wheels...


[2/3/2022 10:51 AM] aceat64
I updated the sections about how bad faith reports may be dismissed


[2/3/2022 10:52 AM] aceat64
https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/proposal-code-of-conduct-change-reform/87308/67?u=andrewlecody


[2/3/2022 10:52 AM] aceat64
Old text:
> In order to protect volunteers from abuse and burnout, we reserve the right to reject any report we believe to have been made in bad faith. Reports intended to silence legitimate criticism may be deleted without response.
New text:
> In order to protect volunteers from abuse and burnout, we reserve the right to reject any report we believe to have been made in bad faith. A pattern of bad faith reports may result in disciplinary action. Reports made in good faith that later turn out to be incorrect will not result in any actions taken against the reporter.


[2/3/2022 10:53 AM] aceat64
also took out the paragraph about what kinds of bad faith reports and the safety > comfort bit, since it's really not a critical piece of the draft


[2/3/2022 10:55 AM] aceat64
but I'm going to be honest, a constant stream of "this won't work" is really frustrating and not a form of positive collaboration


[2/3/2022 10:56 AM] kenpurcell
This certainly generates a lot of What If'isms.


[2/3/2022 10:56 AM] aceat64
effective collaboration requires that we _bring solutions_, not problems


[2/3/2022 10:58 AM] aceat64
instead of "this won't work" we need people to say "this won't work, I think it should be worded like this: [actual wording to replace the problematic part]"


[2/8/2022 8:06 PM] aesthetys
I understand changing your flag for Pride Month, but we are now approaching Month 9 of Pride Month for DMS Discord.  Are we now adding LGBT advocacy to our primary mission statement as an organization?  Are we a makerspace for general audiences, or are we an advocacy group or explicitly LGBT-focused interest group?


[2/8/2022 8:10 PM] canibalcrab
its entirly possible i lost the other


[2/8/2022 8:10 PM] canibalcrab
and the flag doesnt bother me


[2/8/2022 8:13 PM] aesthetys
If the Dallas Morning News constantly printed its title in rainbow colors, people would think it’s trying to take out the Voice.


[2/8/2022 8:26 PM] canibalcrab
i honestly dont see the issue with showing others that we support the LGBT communities


[2/8/2022 8:26 PM] canibalcrab
and continue to do so beyond june


[2/8/2022 8:46 PM] aesthetys
A logo is the first piece of marketing a person sees when learning what an organization does and what activities its members are primarily interested in.

Our organization is a place where you can learn cool maker skills, work on projects, and network with other makers (and LGBT people are included, just like everyone else).

When a person sees or scrolls past the Discord channel for the first time, our marketing materials should have them thinking about that.  Right now, our marketing materials are having people thinking, “Oh, this must be where I go to learn the place and time of the next Pride activity.”


[2/8/2022 8:46 PM] canibalcrab
thats a jump


[2/8/2022 8:47 PM] aesthetys
A jump for what?


[2/8/2022 8:47 PM] canibalcrab
https://tenor.com/view/jump-to-conclusion-think-again-go-wild-moot-no-gif-17140256

{Embed}
https://tenor.com/view/jump-to-conclusion-think-again-go-wild-moot-no-gif-17140256
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/Qn7p2RXWmdlwVG5vtb7D8RiW57rlaoCVzmpoZ4tQsUE/https/media.tenor.co/images/3ebab327b7f2977c63d49779151f78d3/tenor.png


[2/8/2022 8:47 PM] aesthetys
That’s not an answer to my question


[2/8/2022 8:48 PM] canibalcrab
sure it is


[2/8/2022 8:48 PM] canibalcrab
thats a gif


[2/8/2022 8:48 PM] canibalcrab
an animated image showing the thing you were asking about


[2/8/2022 8:48 PM] aesthetys
It’s okay to have the Voice and the Dallas Morning News exist in the same city.

But we’re the Dallas Morning News.


[2/8/2022 8:48 PM] canibalcrab
a jump to conclusions mat


[2/8/2022 8:48 PM] aesthetys
No, it wasn’t.


[2/8/2022 8:49 PM] canibalcrab
i see


[2/8/2022 8:49 PM] canibalcrab
Yes. It was.


[2/8/2022 8:49 PM] jebbabushka
Hi i have a masters degree in marketing


[2/8/2022 8:49 PM] aesthetys
Can you elaborate?


[2/8/2022 8:50 PM] canibalcrab
yes


[2/8/2022 8:50 PM] canibalcrab
it was an answer


[2/8/2022 8:50 PM] canibalcrab
you just didnt like it


[2/8/2022 8:50 PM] jebbabushka
this is an unofficial discord server and it is stated as such,

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[2/8/2022 8:50 PM] canibalcrab
also may i direct you here https://discord.com/channels/300062029559889931/305931634480381962/305933764633165824


[2/8/2022 8:50 PM] jebbabushka
therefore what we do with the logos in the discord do not matter

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[2/8/2022 8:50 PM] canibalcrab
you can go to the talk forum and complain about the logo there


[2/8/2022 8:50 PM] jebbabushka
it could be a picture of a raccoon eating trash with the DMs logo slapped on it

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[2/8/2022 8:51 PM] canibalcrab
the talk logo is also currently the normal dms logo


[2/8/2022 8:51 PM] aesthetys
I have no opinion on your answer because I’m still waiting to hear exactly what you are trying to say.  Which part of my post do you think is a jump to the wrong conclusion, and how?


[2/8/2022 8:51 PM] aesthetys
This is fair.


[2/8/2022 8:51 PM] canibalcrab
its a jump to a conclusion


[2/8/2022 8:51 PM] canibalcrab
a stretch


[2/8/2022 8:52 PM] canibalcrab
you honestly think people see a pride logo on the server and thing OH NOES THEY ARE GONNA TEACH ME PRIDE STUFF NOT THE WOODWORKING CLASS I SIGNED UP FOR


[2/8/2022 8:53 PM] jebbabushka
No pearce they are gonna get the LGBTQ in my RGB lights


[2/8/2022 8:53 PM] canibalcrab
i understand that line of thought tho since you didnt read the welcome page


[2/8/2022 8:54 PM] aesthetys
You are saying it is a stretch to suggest that a group that has a Pride Flag avatar at all times is advertising itself as explicitly catering to LGBT interests and not to general interests?


[2/8/2022 8:54 PM] aesthetys
I didn’t say that at all, and yes, I did read the welcome page.


[2/8/2022 8:55 PM] canibalcrab
theres nothing in a pride flag that says its exclusively catering to LGBT


[2/8/2022 8:55 PM] canibalcrab
its showing support for the community that is undersupported

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[2/8/2022 8:56 PM] aesthetys
Respectfully, this is like saying there’s nothing in a cross that exclusively caters to Christians.


[2/8/2022 8:56 PM] canibalcrab
:wtfisthis:


[2/8/2022 8:56 PM] canibalcrab
:thatsbait:

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[2/8/2022 8:56 PM] canibalcrab
anyways


[2/8/2022 8:58 PM] canibalcrab
as i said earlier I just didnt change it back because I didnt set a timer for june 30 at 11:59 pm to clear the pride logos off stuff like all the corporations do, and you are the first person who was so bothered by it that you wanted to bring it up in the politics channel of all places


[2/8/2022 8:59 PM] peasandclams
I like it regardless.


[2/8/2022 8:59 PM] canibalcrab
that said, you arent doing a good job motivating me to take it off


[2/8/2022 9:00 PM] aesthetys
I’ve made my statement.  I’m not going to press you if you’ve made up your mind otherwise.


[2/8/2022 9:00 PM] jebbabushka
As a gay, i want it to stay


[2/8/2022 9:11 PM] breastiny
@Aesthetys who even are you?

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[2/8/2022 9:12 PM] aesthetys
DMS member and Discord lurker.


[2/8/2022 9:13 PM] breastiny
Who are you on the DMS Talk forum then?


[2/8/2022 9:14 PM] aesthetys
It’s easier to just check Discord


[2/8/2022 9:15 PM] breastiny
Alright what is your membership name? Since this is an unofficial Discord I have no way of verifying you are in fact a member and not just a troll or a disgruntled previous member


[2/8/2022 9:16 PM] aesthetys
I have no interest in being verified.  Like I said, I expressed my opinion and have no interest in contesting it further if the answer is “no”.


[2/8/2022 9:17 PM] breastiny
You sure have a lot of opinions about a place you don't seem that involved with as a straight person regardless. If you can't own up to your opinion then it is worthless to the rest of us.


[2/8/2022 9:18 PM] aesthetys
I never stated my sexual orientation, and I never made a single value judgment about a group of people.  Nevertheless, you are correct that my opinion is worthless to a group I don’t participate in.  I’m happy to leave the discussion at that.


[2/8/2022 9:24 PM] breastiny
Why do you want the Makerspace to be less supportive to queer people? Does it make it less welcoming to straight white men?


[2/8/2022 9:25 PM] breastiny
Are you just one of those people that "just asks questions" to make people think while hiding behind your keyboard as an anonymous person that's going to open our eyes to straight people being marginalized?


[2/8/2022 9:25 PM] aesthetys
I do not hold that opinion.


[2/8/2022 9:25 PM] breastiny
Please tell me how the flag hurts you as a member of the DMS

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[2/8/2022 9:26 PM] aesthetys
Nor did I ask DMS to be less supportive of queer people


[2/8/2022 9:26 PM] breastiny
How does it make you unsafe if a bunch of queers join tomorrow because one organization still had the flag up after June?


[2/8/2022 9:26 PM] aesthetys
I did not claim that I was being made unsafe.


[2/8/2022 9:27 PM] breastiny
Would you be unsafe if every member was queer starting tomorrow?


[2/8/2022 9:27 PM] aesthetys
No I would not.


[2/8/2022 9:27 PM] breastiny
Ok then what does it matter if people think we are actually a predominately LGBTQ Makerspace?


[2/8/2022 9:28 PM] breastiny
What harm does it do the organization when it is obvious there is a logo for a Makerspace?


[2/8/2022 9:29 PM] breastiny
Also that is specifically the ALLY flag


[2/8/2022 9:33 PM] breastiny
It represents progress and allyship. Meaning that there aren't just LGBTQ people there year around, that people are allies to all walks of life. And in a fucking world where the doors are still not wide open for us and we still have to look for a place that declares itself as an ally before we even think about entering then I'm sick of places taking down their supposed symbol of support in July


[2/8/2022 9:35 PM] aesthetys
Ok, that sounds good then.


[2/8/2022 9:43 PM] breastiny
Good job stirring the pot and proving my point that the DMS is not a safe place for marginalized communities and that it's all just virtue signaling until a straight white man is expected to be slightly inconvenienced and then we're the problem!


[2/8/2022 11:07 PM] aceat64
that was very likely their goal

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[2/9/2022 12:52 AM] doug.emes
Staying out of it, though this month probably SHOULD highlight another marginalized community.


[2/9/2022 12:58 AM] breastiny
The flag that Pearce used covers People of Color as well. They would see the flag he used and know that they are supported as well.


[2/9/2022 12:59 AM] breastiny
Because if we support queer people of color, I bet that means we support the straight ones too.


[2/9/2022 1:01 AM] breastiny
I do love when people say they are "staying out of it" and then totally dive right into it.


[2/9/2022 8:17 AM] anutterbutter
For my two cents, I think it's ok to use an ally flag for an unofficial channel. Though I think it would be cool to have the logo made in glass, metal, digital media and so on and rotate every month or two

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[2/9/2022 10:32 AM] quattroquattro
That's an excellent point.

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[2/9/2022 10:38 AM] aceat64
as Pearce said, he doesn't have the original image anymore, that's the main reason it's still this one


[2/9/2022 10:39 AM] aceat64
he had a hard drive die a while back


[2/9/2022 10:40 AM] aceat64
plus this one is animated


[2/9/2022 10:41 AM] aceat64
and cool animated logos are always better than boring static logos


[2/9/2022 10:42 AM] hon1nbo
truth


[2/9/2022 10:43 AM] aceat64
if people with artistic skill (i.e. not me) want to make logos for the server, please do


[2/9/2022 10:43 AM] aceat64
it would be nice to have a couple different fun/seasonal ones

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[2/9/2022 10:54 AM] aceat64
this is my skill level

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https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/690404549776637972/941014299378339840/unknown.png?ex=67b9589c&is=67b8071c&hm=8fb33105f8c41657df447362b5d9688aba9ee6709c75686b27c52ff7507ffc20&


[2/9/2022 11:23 AM] doug.emes
See general channel for the svg I created last year that was not used

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[2/9/2022 12:02 PM] themitch22
That's how the DMS logo looked before the alcohol ban

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[2/9/2022 12:04 PM] jsnowfreedman
roflmao


[2/9/2022 5:00 PM] kenpurcell
Actually looks fine to me


[2/25/2022 8:51 AM] kenpurcell
I guess Mark Havens is still disappointed in DMS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sco6J32Apc

{Embed}
Mark Havens
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sco6J32Apc
You Have a Voice! -- A Dallas Makerspace success story steeped in t...
Recorded on August 16, 2020, Chris Fazio tells the world about his positive and negative experiences as a new member of Dallas Makerspace along with his motivations for staying, despite feeling marginalized by the members of leadership that perpetuate the organization's toxic culture.

[13:20] Chris on why his opinion doesn't matter 
[14:00] Chr...
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/iOY7rzfsemVBwIhADI3eh7KQDGGXe-k3AIr9BGKCejs/https/i.ytimg.com/vi/9sco6J32Apc/sddefault.jpg


[2/25/2022 8:51 AM] kenpurcell
https://youtu.be/hhfCVMJrRNI?t=594

{Embed}
Mark Havens
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhfCVMJrRNI&start=594
Maker Community Matters [S1E1] -- Dallas Makerspace Mission Stateme...
[09:53] Start & Introduction
[12:42] Regarding Dallas Makerspace Mission Statement Change
[14:37] Old Reading of the Dallas Makerspace Mission Statement
[18:15] Dallas Makerspace Articles of Incorporation
[20:06] Dallas Makerspace Board Minutes for September 15, 2021
[20:41] Proposal for the Dallas Makerspace Vision Statement
[22:08] Reading of ...
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/9R_kobC3Ed2clbdMb_kbI3rZBIri5fiTlv5H6Ecc0Yw/https/i.ytimg.com/vi/hhfCVMJrRNI/maxresdefault.jpg


[2/25/2022 8:52 AM] kenpurcell
https://youtu.be/R_yGIyIlwGg

{Embed}
Mark Havens
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_yGIyIlwGg
An adventuring party searches for secrets at Dallas Makerspace! NOT...
SUBSCRIBE OR TAKE 44 PSYCHIC DAMAGE!
╔═╦╗╔╦╗╔═╦═╦╦╦╦╗╔═╗
║╚╣║║║╚╣╚╣╔╣╔╣║╚╣═╣ 
╠╗║╚╝║║╠╗║╚╣║║║║║═╣
╚═╩══╩═╩═╩═╩╝╚╩═╩═╝
NOT A SUBSCRIBER? ROLE INITIATIVE!

An imaginary Dallas Makerspace walkthrough to give you an idea of what the organization might be like in 1496 DR Faerûn. I'm sure there were thousands of them then. It was the biggest guild in ...
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/eNSG3YpNYqUF4cj4qT5cz2YSQGgXWjMnwqKMvmRRLRk/https/i.ytimg.com/vi/R_yGIyIlwGg/maxresdefault.jpg


[2/25/2022 9:24 AM] noble_goblin
Dude why does he still care at this point?


[2/25/2022 9:27 AM] noble_goblin
Also that adventuring party video is beyond cringe. Couldn’t make it more than two minutes in.


[2/25/2022 9:28 AM] noble_goblin
He has turned into such a “pick me b****” #niceguyenergy

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[2/25/2022 10:12 AM] kenpurcell
Not to make fun of people but I think a gear may be loose (or missing). He quickly forgot all the anti-community things he and Her Majesty's BoD did. You do not build community by trolling everyone or stealing from it. If he was so successful at building a Makerspace you would think he could do it again and shape it into what he wanted. Easy to spend your time tearing down something else.


[2/25/2022 10:33 AM] aceat64
It's best to just ignore him imo

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[2/25/2022 11:47 AM] nullinterface
> cringe
My reaction to pretty much everything Havens


[2/27/2022 4:51 PM] aceat64
https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Code_of_Conduct_Proposal#Code_of_Conduct_.28full.29

{Embed}
https://dallasmakerspace.org/wiki/Code_of_Conduct_Proposal
Code of Conduct Proposal


[2/28/2022 8:04 PM] engpin1964
Who are even the people in the video


[3/1/2022 8:56 AM] kenpurcell
Other than Gorman, I do not know those people. Constructive criticism is all well and good but just shitting on stuff is a dumb method to invoke any change.

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[3/1/2022 9:49 AM] aceat64
Focus on solutions, not problems


[3/1/2022 9:50 AM] aceat64
"This is a problem"
"This doesn't work"
Aren't helpful, having defined and actionable solutions is helpful


[3/1/2022 9:51 AM] aceat64
"we should do [general idea]" is a great starting point, but actionable if the key part of a solution 🙂


[3/1/2022 11:56 AM] anutterbutter
Mmm, yeah, may need to promote radical cooperation in 2022. One place I used to work at used to say bring as many "problems" as you want, but be prepared to have at least 3 possible solutions for each.


[3/1/2022 12:16 PM] themitch22
Permabanned members aren't going to be cooperative on providing solutions that the members would hear. Complaining just to complain is just narcissism


[3/1/2022 12:19 PM] themitch22
But I'm not a member right now and have no solutions to give.


[3/1/2022 12:29 PM] anutterbutter
Frankly he seems unhinged, don't have any solutions either unfortunately.


[3/1/2022 12:32 PM] brockelee
Is there a specific video you guys are referring to?


[3/1/2022 12:36 PM] toenolla
Mark is still aggrieved from losing the first board election. There's no reason to assume he wouldn't keep it going indefinitely.  Honestly I don't think it's productive to post his nonsense here.

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[3/1/2022 1:26 PM] brockelee
Ah ok that video. Nvm


[3/1/2022 1:48 PM] kenpurcell
Yeah, I should have left it in obscurity as that is what it deserves. Just shocked though.


[3/1/2022 2:10 PM] hon1nbo
I mean all I ever asked for was neutral mediation and look where that got me


[3/1/2022 2:10 PM] hon1nbo
this requires that leadership actually be willing to discuss problems in the first place rather than allow them to fester


[3/1/2022 2:31 PM] themitch22
Or have a 3rd party to discuss problems to avoid conflicts of interest or bias

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[3/1/2022 2:32 PM] themitch22
But what do I know, I haven't been banned for life.


[3/1/2022 2:33 PM] themitch22
I just want to see what happens when a lifetime member gets banned for life


[3/1/2022 2:35 PM] canibalcrab
you already have


[3/1/2022 2:35 PM] canibalcrab
happened a while back


[3/1/2022 2:36 PM] canibalcrab
lifetime members still have to follow the rules of the space


[3/1/2022 2:46 PM] aceat64
I'm not sure where the confusion on lifetime memberships being some kind of special status comes from


[3/1/2022 2:47 PM] aceat64
it's no different than the yearly pre-paid memberships, except it was a limited time deal to raise funds and was for a longer period of time


[3/1/2022 3:48 PM] nullinterface
lifetime memberships were what ... early 2014?


[3/1/2022 3:55 PM] canibalcrab
I don't remember, but they are beyond "I want the rest of my money back" timelines


[3/1/2022 4:00 PM] nullinterface
it's a somewhat relevant question since the org will have amortized them over some period of time, which may have elapsed


[3/1/2022 4:19 PM] canibalcrab
it was like 5 years at the average rate


[3/1/2022 4:20 PM] canibalcrab
yeah 5 years at the annual discount rate


[3/1/2022 4:20 PM] canibalcrab
whenever we moved to monetary


[3/1/2022 5:33 PM] aceat64
Dues are also forfeit on expulsion


[3/2/2022 5:52 AM] toenolla
I know a few people out here who bought lifetime memberships to Tech Shop, so I think DMS could have done worse.

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[4/8/2022 7:25 PM] kenpurcell
Meet the Candidates is scheduled for 4/14 @ 7pm https://calendar.dallasmakerspace.org/events/view/17994


[4/14/2022 6:30 PM] nullinterface
has someone arranged for a stream?


[4/14/2022 7:10 PM] nullinterface
https://meet.google.com/bqr-uuzg-nzx

{Embed}
https://meet.google.com/bqr-uuzg-nzx
Meet
Real-time meetings by Google. Using your browser, share your video, desktop, and presentations with teammates and customers.
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/GCEsHEuoDTlzmJI_A4QfZk7rhbRzgKpjyZ2wWn9VqrM/https/fonts.gstatic.com/s/i/productlogos/meet_2020q4/v1/web-96dp/logo_meet_2020q4_color_2x_web_96dp.png


[4/14/2022 7:10 PM] nullinterface
peanut gallery: collective projects are cool, but have a ... mixed ... past at DMS


[4/14/2022 7:14 PM] nullinterface
many prior Boards ago shut down Brandon's brief tenure of Logistics


[4/14/2022 7:25 PM] nullinterface
peanut gallery: gatekeeping has been an ongoing impediment.  one of the most common complaints I see outside of DMS.


[4/14/2022 7:28 PM] nullinterface
peanut gallery: a member that has 'paused' still has a relationship with the org, thus communications with them would not be unsolicited marketing


[4/14/2022 7:53 PM] nullinterface
aside: think I might have been the first non-board Officer


[4/15/2022 11:33 AM] kenpurcell
So far 22 (9.5%) people have voted

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[4/15/2022 1:59 PM] kenpurcell
Was having breakfast with the mayor of Lewisville and he mentioned that Maryland has a new Makerspace Initiative that is making its way through the legislative process. https://legiscan.com/MD/bill/SB453/2022 & https://mgaleg.maryland.gov/mgawebsite/Legislation/Details/sb0577?ys=2021RS We are trying to schedule a visit with someone running for State Rep to come tour DMS and see if this is something we can get replicated in Texas. He still is on board with the idea of a Makerspace to server Lewisville, Flower Mound and Highland Village.

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https://legiscan.com/MD/bill/SB453/2022
Maryland SB453 | 2022 | Regular Session
Summary (2022-04-11) Economic Development – Maryland Makerspace Initiative Program [Returned Passed]
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[4/16/2022 12:49 AM] toenolla
🤩


[4/29/2022 5:14 PM] doug.emes
Any final play by play


[4/29/2022 5:25 PM] aceat64
that'll be a question for @Lampy (Ken Purcell)


[4/29/2022 5:25 PM] aceat64
still 35 minutes left though


[4/29/2022 5:36 PM] canibalcrab
I thought in person closed at like 7


[4/29/2022 6:10 PM] aceat64
> 4/29 3pm In-person voting via paper ballot
> 4/29 5pm Online Voting & In-person voting ends
> 4/29 5:30pm Voting Reports/Exports from online system Simply Voting
> 4/29 6pm tally all votes
> 4/29 7pm Election Results Announcement & Transfer of Officers


[4/29/2022 6:52 PM] jsnowfreedman
When did online start?


[4/29/2022 6:53 PM] aceat64
on the 14th


[4/29/2022 7:05 PM] jsnowfreedman
Ah ok. I thought it was earlier just wasn't sure based on that schedule


[4/29/2022 7:06 PM] aceat64
the meeting should be starting soon, there's an online option but it looks like we're waiting on someone at the space to connect. It's just me and Curt so far


[4/29/2022 7:06 PM] aceat64
https://meet.google.com/bdi-itpp-yxm

{Embed}
https://meet.google.com/bdi-itpp-yxm
Meet
Real-time meetings by Google. Using your browser, share your video, desktop, and presentations with teammates and customers.
https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/GCEsHEuoDTlzmJI_A4QfZk7rhbRzgKpjyZ2wWn9VqrM/https/fonts.gstatic.com/s/i/productlogos/meet_2020q4/v1/web-96dp/logo_meet_2020q4_color_2x_web_96dp.png


[4/30/2022 1:21 AM] themitch22
Congratudolences on the results


[5/1/2022 4:58 PM] toenolla
I for one welcome the Jilluminati


[5/2/2022 9:20 AM] noble_goblin
Meh. Are there term limits?


[5/2/2022 9:25 AM] themitch22
Term limits = get burned out


[5/2/2022 10:14 AM] noble_goblin
That’s garbage.


[5/2/2022 10:14 AM] noble_goblin
What are we, Russia? Term limits exist for a reason.


[5/2/2022 10:39 AM] kenpurcell
Hmmm, we made quorum at 66.7%. Would have been nice to update some bylaws.


[5/2/2022 10:41 AM] themitch22
I wonder why the CoC stuff didn't get voted for


[5/2/2022 10:41 AM] themitch22
Was it the disaster talk thread?


[5/2/2022 10:46 AM] noble_goblin
I’ve been traveling for three weeks, what thread??


[5/2/2022 10:52 AM] themitch22
Guess the thread got deleted. RIP


[5/2/2022 11:02 AM] canibalcrab
bylaws can be updated, we just need to start talking about them sooner


[5/2/2022 11:11 AM] aceat64
probably, there was a ton of FUD about it when it mostly was just a cleanup of our existing rules


[5/2/2022 11:12 AM] aceat64
there were a couple, you didn't miss anything important though lol


[5/2/2022 11:14 AM] aceat64
https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/on-the-suggested-code-of-conduct-changes/88327
https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/board-agenda-item-add-code-of-conduct-rule-changes-to-ballot/88241


[5/2/2022 11:15 AM] aceat64
there was also this crazy one: https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/do-we-have-an-extra-400-000/89939

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https://talk.dallasmakerspace.org/t/do-we-have-an-extra-400-000/89939
Do we have an extra $400,000?
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[5/2/2022 11:17 AM] aceat64
there was FUD about the Code of Conduct being "political" and somehow a risk to our non-profit status, something about how it violates Title IX and various other bizarre takes


[5/2/2022 11:20 AM] aceat64
the legit concerns were mostly addressed in subsequent drafts, but rational discussion got drowned out by people who probably didn't even read any of the drafts


[5/2/2022 11:20 AM] canibalcrab
the CoC was also a rules change, so it doesn't have to be at an annual meeting. the board can *and does* update the rules all the time


[5/2/2022 11:22 AM] aceat64
yup, the main idea was to get our horribly confusing rules on behavior cleaned up and try to offload some of this stuff from the board


[5/2/2022 4:09 PM] noble_goblin
How would one go about suggesting term limits?


[5/2/2022 4:09 PM] noble_goblin
My idea currently is two consecutive terms and then a two term break.


[5/2/2022 4:21 PM] aceat64
It would need to be an amendment to the bylaws.


[5/2/2022 4:23 PM] aceat64
And then we'd need either 10% of voting members to sign off on it or the BoD. Then it could be voted on by the members, but we'd need at least 2/3 quorum for the vote to count.


[5/2/2022 5:25 PM] toenolla
I don't really think there's a risk of anyone locking down a board seat indefinitely.  One bad year will cause someone to cycle, and there are always new people coming in.


[5/2/2022 5:25 PM] toenolla
Also, the pay's bad.


[5/3/2022 7:46 AM] noble_goblin
I’m a big fan of not letting a problem manifest if it can be prevented.


[5/3/2022 7:47 AM] noble_goblin
Especially when it comes to power.


[5/4/2022 10:22 AM] canibalcrab
I was thinking about term limits


[5/4/2022 10:22 AM] canibalcrab
it's not really something that I see being effective at the space because we have so few people who actually run for board


[5/4/2022 10:23 AM] canibalcrab
we wouldn't have 5 people for the board if we had a 2 term limit this year


[5/4/2022 10:24 AM] canibalcrab
and if we did implement term limits, it would need to be paired with a staggered election cycle for some of the seats.

it's nice to have some previous knowledge on the board so there's some carry over of institutional knowledge

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[5/4/2022 10:24 AM] andrew5152
counterpoint: sometimes, out of necessity, springs innovation. If we NEEDED more candidates, more might present.


[5/4/2022 10:24 AM] canibalcrab
that's true


[5/4/2022 10:24 AM] andrew5152
I do like the idea of staggered terms


[5/4/2022 10:24 AM] canibalcrab
it's the only reason I ran, I didn't see enough people on the ballot

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[5/4/2022 10:25 AM] andrew5152
and I do like the idea of term limits, but I really want the voting membership to self-impose, rather than rules/bylaws


[5/4/2022 10:25 AM] canibalcrab
thankfully I didn't get foisted on there


[5/4/2022 10:25 AM] canibalcrab
I would rather see limits on the number of hats a person can wear at a time


[5/4/2022 10:25 AM] canibalcrab
before term limits


[5/4/2022 10:25 AM] andrew5152
https://tenor.com/view/monty-python-holy-grail-king-didnt-vote-gif-8051023

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https://tenor.com/view/monty-python-holy-grail-king-didnt-vote-gif-8051023
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[5/4/2022 10:26 AM] canibalcrab
stuff like, board members can't be officers, or chairs. officers shouldn't be chairs, chairs shouldn't have more than one seat at a time

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[5/4/2022 10:27 AM] canibalcrab
it would create a vacancy, but those spots would get filled if people were unable to continue using the space without them


[5/4/2022 10:29 AM] aceat64
if there's no one willing to run a committee that's a good sign that it's resources are underutilized, or that something is wrong with the structure of it


[5/4/2022 10:30 AM] andrew5152
that's not my interpretation of that situation, at least, not 100%


[5/4/2022 10:31 AM] canibalcrab
technically if no one is willing to run the committee is supposed to be dissolved


[5/4/2022 10:31 AM] andrew5152
we shit on chairs, and joke about crappy it is to serve instead of working to elevate those who do. This is a leadership issue moreso, is my interpretation. But then again, what do I know.

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[5/4/2022 10:31 AM] canibalcrab
theres also a lot that people don't know about being a chair


[5/4/2022 10:32 AM] canibalcrab
and we don't hold them accountable for the things that need to get done


[5/4/2022 10:32 AM] canibalcrab
which makes others have to do it. the board


[5/4/2022 10:32 AM] andrew5152
hm. by design, it *should be* the membership that "has to do it"


[5/4/2022 10:33 AM] canibalcrab
right but we don't hold the chairs accountable


[5/4/2022 10:33 AM] andrew5152
but often the Board gets the impression they must (and often, do)


[5/4/2022 10:34 AM] andrew5152
Right. But if board members z, y, x, w, v all noticed that Frank the Tank was doing all of the work they expected Pearce to be doing in glassworks, they could turn that over. Instead, they step in and do the work, and Frank the Tank thinks "oh, good, someone else is doing that".


[5/4/2022 10:34 AM] andrew5152
meh


[5/4/2022 10:35 AM] andrew5152
probably chicken vs. egg there


[5/4/2022 10:35 AM] andrew5152
Time for me to mosey on. Thanks for listening.


[5/8/2022 9:49 PM] noble_goblin
Being an entirely volunteer run organization has it's downsides. You can't really voluntell anyone to do anything.


[5/8/2022 11:17 PM] aceat64
we're also not great about letting people know how they can help or allowing them to

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[5/9/2022 8:43 AM] noble_goblin
That’s prob my fav part of it all


[5/9/2022 6:52 PM] noble_goblin
I think that tends to happen in orgs this big. It’s the bystander effect to a degree. Unless someone is designated specifically, everyone will twiddle their thumbs and wait for someone else to do it. 

And people might be hesitant to help because they don’t know if they are allowed and they don’t want to step on toes.

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[5/9/2022 7:01 PM] andrew5152
and then there's when someone is designated, plans are made, stuff bought...and then someone else does it the day before the scheduled plans. Kind of kills the drive to make any plans, buy any stuff, DO anything "next time". Just as demoralizing as making plans, buying stuff, and having no one show up who said they would.


[5/9/2022 7:03 PM] andrew5152
but hey, doing your own thing on your own time with your own stuff without worrying about anything anyone else has/does/planned/bought/brought/needs/wants... 👍


[5/9/2022 7:06 PM] canibalcrab
that does make it easy


[5/9/2022 7:07 PM] canibalcrab
but contributes to burnout


[5/9/2022 7:07 PM] canibalcrab
having scheduled days to do stuff is nice too

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[5/9/2022 8:37 PM] themitch22
you either need a volunteer volunteer coordinator or financial incentives to organize volunteers.


[5/9/2022 9:09 PM] andrew5152
both have been offered over the last ~4yrs. Neither particularly fruitful. 🤷‍♂️


[5/9/2022 10:42 PM] tjs3
Good topic… thanks for discussion… I captured some ideas for upcoming communication improvements

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[5/10/2022 3:34 PM] nullinterface
> financial incentives to organize volunteers.
Been there, ended up tossing that person for regularly buying their buddies lunch


[5/10/2022 4:50 PM] noble_goblin
🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃


[5/24/2022 12:55 PM] stephenie.
Laser's DIY potluck worked well for our monthly one hour meeting + maintenance day.

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[5/24/2022 12:59 PM] andrew5152
which was neither financial incentivized volunteer coordinator, nor volunteer volunteer coordinator, led, but instead was driven by volunteer committee chair & volunteer assistants leading. This has, to date, been the most successful model @ DMS (to my knowledge).


[5/24/2022 1:02 PM] stephenie.
You're right, it was one "level" down in hierarchy.  Let's also give credit to @LukeStrickland  who used pizza to incentivize Logistics volunteers - volunteers all threw in a few bucks, someone picked up pizza. My then-teen son LOVED Logistics Pizza Day.  He met so many people, made Space friends.

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[5/24/2022 1:03 PM] stephenie.
I had hoped that the DIY potluck + maintenance day would catch on with other committees.


[5/24/2022 1:05 PM] andrew5152
It may still do, if anyone picks up the mantel & demonstrates its efficacy again... COVID didn't help any of that type of activity, but we are ( 🤞 ) on the other side of that being viable, again...


[5/24/2022 1:06 PM] andrew5152
want to see office hours  picked up & spread again, too. another great idea!


[5/24/2022 1:08 PM] stephenie.
I loved Laser Office Hours!!!   It didn't turn out like I thought it would.  I thought I'd be helping people become more comfortable with the machines.  Instead, almost all issues were with design + Inkscape.  Like much of volunteering, I gained as much or more than i gave.  Interacting with so many different designs and different issues really boosted my skills.


[5/24/2022 1:09 PM] stephenie.
I wish we taught the following to new members:


[5/24/2022 1:09 PM] stephenie.
1. The biggest project you will make here is The Space itself.


[5/24/2022 1:10 PM] stephenie.
and that is not an optional project.

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[5/24/2022 1:12 PM] stephenie.
2. "You are automatically a member of the Logistics committee.  Not optional.  Here's where the trash bags are.  Here's where the mops are.  Here's where the toilet paper is.  Let's take out a bag of trash.  You are required to participate in one Logistics workday (per whatever)."


[5/24/2022 1:13 PM] stephenie.
Make so that you can't sign up for a class until you've attended a Logistics workday.


[5/24/2022 1:18 PM] jsnowfreedman
TBH even though I've been their like 9 months now... I still don't even know where half the maintenance stuff is :/
Kinda wish that was a mandatory introductory thing


[5/24/2022 4:17 PM] kenpurcell
On the west wall of the common room there is a supplies closet with trash bags, toilet paper etc. Other 'maintenance' stuff is in each committees area somewhere


[5/24/2022 7:26 PM] jphelps
Is there a sign on the common room supplies closet?


[5/24/2022 7:59 PM] canibalcrab
kinda


[5/27/2022 3:49 PM] apparently_weird
All depends on who helps you set up your badge. If it’s me, I point to the supply closet in common room and tell them to make sure their badge works. When they open it up, “Now when you make a mess you know where stuff is to clean it up. Have fun, don’t burn the place down. “

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[6/4/2022 5:35 PM] doug.emes
FYI I was re-elected President of thelab.ms and we approved new bylaws.  `||https://kb.thelab.ms/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=31268113||`.  Congrats to the my new BoD and continue to look forward to our friendship  with DMS

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[6/4/2022 5:46 PM] nullinterface
when are the political prisoners being rounded up?

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[2/8/2024 4:14 PM] chadpursley
Hey y'all would we be okay leaving 5 cars on the side of the MakerSpace for a day and a half? We have some people going out of town to shoot a video. They are looking for a place they won't get towed.


[2/8/2024 4:47 PM] canibalcrab
this is def not the place to ask for permission like that.


[2/8/2024 4:47 PM] canibalcrab
also the lease says no


[2/8/2024 4:47 PM] canibalcrab
youd want to email admin@dallasmakerspace.org


[2/8/2024 5:05 PM] chadpursley
If the lease says no, then we won’t do it. Thanks. 🙂


[2/8/2024 5:47 PM] engpin1964
Unfortunately. He is correct. The lease does not allow for that

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[2/8/2024 9:56 PM] chadpursley
Thank you both!


[2/15/2024 8:38 AM] kenpurcell
Getting close to time for new political prisoners.

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[6/4/2024 11:03 PM] doug.emes
TheLab.ms held our annual elections, and I am no longer president, having met the limit of 3 consecutive terms.  I was elected to Vice-president.  Mr. Tim Rayburn is the newly elected president for that makerspace.  Maybe now I can start working on some of my own projects

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